Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-08 Thread Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
Let's retire this thread for now. Its hit my unofficial 'OT' posting volume 
limit. ;-) 
73,

Eric  WA6HHQ
Elecraft List Moderator
_..._
-Original Message-
From: Peter Wollan 
Date: Saturday, Aug 8, 2009 6:15 am
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed
To: dave.wilb...@verizon.net
CC: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net,Elecraft_List Reflector 


This is a seductive argurment, but it's specious.  People have been
talking a long time, so why can't they use cell phones while driving?

The problem is that doing anything other than driving while you're
driving leads to inattention or distraction -- and a dramatic increase
in the likelihood of a wreck.  You may feel that you're not like other
people, you can tell when you're not driving well, and you can handle
it.  Drunk drivers think that way too.

I like the idea of mobile CW, and I admire the people who can do it.
But I'm not going to do it myself.

Peter N8MHD

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:40 PM,  wrote:
> Your inability to perceive the problem is (likely) directly proportional to 
> the years you have been doing code. ;)
>
> I did code mobile for the first time recently. Coming back from dropping my 
> son off at Camp Lejeune. It was the New Eng. QSO party.  My paddles were the 
> buttons on the mic of a 706.  It was lots of listening up front. Then just 
> reply to their call.
>
> I didn't try running a freq while driving.  You have to save something to 
> shoot for.
>
> David Wilburn
> NM4M
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ".k8dd." 
>
> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:43:55
> To: Grant Youngman
> Cc: Elecraft_List Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic:  CW sending vs. recieving speed
>
>
> I've never understood that line of thought.
> Why would you take target practice at little tykes?  That's unreal.
>
> On the other hand people will talk on cell phones while driving and
> people will pick up a microphone and talk on 2m.  That's all ok.  But
> talk about talking on cw . You don't have a cell phone or a
> microphone to drop if things go wrong - just take your hand off the key
> or paddle and let it sit there.
> And what's the difference between copying phone or CW in your head?
> That's not an argument either!
> I've just never understood the comments that get made about mobile CW.
>
> 73     :^]
> Hank    K8DD
>
>
>
> Grant Youngman wrote:
>> Hmmm .. I can't use my cell phone when driving through a school zone
>> here, even with a hands-free.  I wonder if I could get away with
>> taking target practice at the little tykes walking to school while
>> sending mobile CW :-)
>>
>> Grant/NQ5T
>>
>>> always sent around 25-30 WPM. I could never send as well as I could
>>> copy
>>> when mobile, due to the car bouncing off potholes, other vehicles,
>>> etc.
>>> ;-) As I got older, my sending speed fell below my copy speed even at
>>> home.  Regardless, unless I get a QRS request, I assume someone
>>> answering my CQ can copy the speed I used.
>>
>
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-08 Thread Peter N. Spotts
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:41:16 +0100
"Dave Sergeant"  wrote:

> On 8 Aug 2009 at 8:15, Peter Wollan wrote:
> 
> > This is a seductive argurment, but it's specious.  People have been
> > talking a long time, so why can't they use cell phones while
> > driving?
> 
> In the UK of course using a mobile while driving is illegal (unless
> it is hands free), on the spot fine if caught. There are special 
> exemptions for amateur kit, though I wouldn't want to be stopped by
> the police speaking into a 2m handheld - or even worse sending morse
> while driving.
> 
> Sadly this reflector is drifting WAY off topic. I recently
> resubscribed to see what was happening in Atpos but if these sort of
> threads continue I will be leaving again.
> 
> 73 Dave G3YMC
> 
> http://www.davesergeant.com
> 

Check out the archives before closing the door on the list. Thes crop
up every once in awhile, but threads like this represent a small
proportion of the topics, based on a *very* casual survey.

With best regards,

Pete
-- 
Peter N. Spotts -- KC1JB
http://www.kc1jb.net (under construction)
Email: kc...@arrl.net | Skype: pspotts
QRP-ARCI # 4174 | North American QRP CW Club # 2446
Flying Pigs QRP # 1983 | SKCC # 4853 | QCWA #34679
W5JH Black Widow paddle #601

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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-08 Thread Dave Sergeant
On 8 Aug 2009 at 8:15, Peter Wollan wrote:

> This is a seductive argurment, but it's specious.  People have been
> talking a long time, so why can't they use cell phones while driving?

In the UK of course using a mobile while driving is illegal (unless it 
is hands free), on the spot fine if caught. There are special 
exemptions for amateur kit, though I wouldn't want to be stopped by the 
police speaking into a 2m handheld - or even worse sending morse while 
driving.

Sadly this reflector is drifting WAY off topic. I recently resubscribed 
to see what was happening in Atpos but if these sort of threads 
continue I will be leaving again.

73 Dave G3YMC

http://www.davesergeant.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-08 Thread Peter Wollan
This is a seductive argurment, but it's specious.  People have been
talking a long time, so why can't they use cell phones while driving?

The problem is that doing anything other than driving while you're
driving leads to inattention or distraction -- and a dramatic increase
in the likelihood of a wreck.  You may feel that you're not like other
people, you can tell when you're not driving well, and you can handle
it.  Drunk drivers think that way too.

I like the idea of mobile CW, and I admire the people who can do it.
But I'm not going to do it myself.

Peter N8MHD

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:40 PM,  wrote:
> Your inability to perceive the problem is (likely) directly proportional to 
> the years you have been doing code. ;)
>
> I did code mobile for the first time recently. Coming back from dropping my 
> son off at Camp Lejeune. It was the New Eng. QSO party.  My paddles were the 
> buttons on the mic of a 706.  It was lots of listening up front. Then just 
> reply to their call.
>
> I didn't try running a freq while driving.  You have to save something to 
> shoot for.
>
> David Wilburn
> NM4M
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ".k8dd." 
>
> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:43:55
> To: Grant Youngman
> Cc: Elecraft_List Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic:  CW sending vs. recieving speed
>
>
> I've never understood that line of thought.
> Why would you take target practice at little tykes?  That's unreal.
>
> On the other hand people will talk on cell phones while driving and
> people will pick up a microphone and talk on 2m.  That's all ok.  But
> talk about talking on cw . You don't have a cell phone or a
> microphone to drop if things go wrong - just take your hand off the key
> or paddle and let it sit there.
> And what's the difference between copying phone or CW in your head?
> That's not an argument either!
> I've just never understood the comments that get made about mobile CW.
>
> 73     :^]
> Hank    K8DD
>
>
>
> Grant Youngman wrote:
>> Hmmm .. I can't use my cell phone when driving through a school zone
>> here, even with a hands-free.  I wonder if I could get away with
>> taking target practice at the little tykes walking to school while
>> sending mobile CW :-)
>>
>> Grant/NQ5T
>>
>>> always sent around 25-30 WPM. I could never send as well as I could
>>> copy
>>> when mobile, due to the car bouncing off potholes, other vehicles,
>>> etc.
>>> ;-) As I got older, my sending speed fell below my copy speed even at
>>> home.  Regardless, unless I get a QRS request, I assume someone
>>> answering my CQ can copy the speed I used.
>>
>
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread dave . wilburn
Your inability to perceive the problem is (likely) directly proportional to the 
years you have been doing code. ;)

I did code mobile for the first time recently. Coming back from dropping my son 
off at Camp Lejeune. It was the New Eng. QSO party.  My paddles were the 
buttons on the mic of a 706.  It was lots of listening up front. Then just 
reply to their call.

I didn't try running a freq while driving.  You have to save something to shoot 
for.

David Wilburn
NM4M 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: ".k8dd." 

Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:43:55 
To: Grant Youngman
Cc: Elecraft_List Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic:  CW sending vs. recieving speed


I've never understood that line of thought.
Why would you take target practice at little tykes?  That's unreal.

On the other hand people will talk on cell phones while driving and 
people will pick up a microphone and talk on 2m.  That's all ok.  But 
talk about talking on cw . You don't have a cell phone or a 
microphone to drop if things go wrong - just take your hand off the key 
or paddle and let it sit there.
And what's the difference between copying phone or CW in your head? 
That's not an argument either!
I've just never understood the comments that get made about mobile CW.

73 :^]
HankK8DD



Grant Youngman wrote:
> Hmmm .. I can't use my cell phone when driving through a school zone  
> here, even with a hands-free.  I wonder if I could get away with  
> taking target practice at the little tykes walking to school while  
> sending mobile CW :-)
> 
> Grant/NQ5T
> 
>> always sent around 25-30 WPM. I could never send as well as I could  
>> copy
>> when mobile, due to the car bouncing off potholes, other vehicles,  
>> etc.
>> ;-) As I got older, my sending speed fell below my copy speed even at
>> home.  Regardless, unless I get a QRS request, I assume someone
>> answering my CQ can copy the speed I used.
>


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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread .k8dd.
I've never understood that line of thought.
Why would you take target practice at little tykes?  That's unreal.

On the other hand people will talk on cell phones while driving and 
people will pick up a microphone and talk on 2m.  That's all ok.  But 
talk about talking on cw . You don't have a cell phone or a 
microphone to drop if things go wrong - just take your hand off the key 
or paddle and let it sit there.
And what's the difference between copying phone or CW in your head? 
That's not an argument either!
I've just never understood the comments that get made about mobile CW.

73 :^]
HankK8DD



Grant Youngman wrote:
> Hmmm .. I can't use my cell phone when driving through a school zone  
> here, even with a hands-free.  I wonder if I could get away with  
> taking target practice at the little tykes walking to school while  
> sending mobile CW :-)
> 
> Grant/NQ5T
> 
>> always sent around 25-30 WPM. I could never send as well as I could  
>> copy
>> when mobile, due to the car bouncing off potholes, other vehicles,  
>> etc.
>> ;-) As I got older, my sending speed fell below my copy speed even at
>> home.  Regardless, unless I get a QRS request, I assume someone
>> answering my CQ can copy the speed I used.
>


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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread Grant Youngman
Hmmm .. I can't use my cell phone when driving through a school zone  
here, even with a hands-free.  I wonder if I could get away with  
taking target practice at the little tykes walking to school while  
sending mobile CW :-)

Grant/NQ5T

>
> always sent around 25-30 WPM. I could never send as well as I could  
> copy
> when mobile, due to the car bouncing off potholes, other vehicles,  
> etc.
> ;-) As I got older, my sending speed fell below my copy speed even at
> home.  Regardless, unless I get a QRS request, I assume someone
> answering my CQ can copy the speed I used.

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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread Dave, W8OV
For several years I kept a schedule with an old(er) friend (now SK) as I 
mobiled to work each day.  He could copy very high speed, but nearly 
always sent around 25-30 WPM. I could never send as well as I could copy 
when mobile, due to the car bouncing off potholes, other vehicles, etc. 
;-) As I got older, my sending speed fell below my copy speed even at 
home.  Regardless, unless I get a QRS request, I assume someone 
answering my CQ can copy the speed I used.

Dave, W8OV
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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy
Not always. Even if the Op who answers your call can copy high speed CW, he 
might be replying at slow speed for some good reason such as echo on your 
signal, which can make copy of high speed CW difficult, hoping that you will 
slow down. At this latitude 56N multipath echo occurs quite frequently on 
40m signals from the West Coast. A reply at 15wpm seems to work, but a reply 
at a higher speed can become garbled when echo is present.

FWIW

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD.


> dw wrote:
>
> What's the general consensus?
> Is it logical to assume that a person's CW sending speed approximates
> their copy speed?



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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread Brett Howard
Yea...  Problem is that the usual answer to that is "73 GUD QSO HPE TO CUL".

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 11:01 AM
To: 'Elecraft_List'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

The appropriate reaction is "PSE QRS 10 WPM TNX OM"

Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
...I find that 9 times out of 10 people answer me
at considerably higher speed than I'm sending.  Commonly I'll call at 10WPM
and get calls at 13 to 15 which is the difference between solid cpy and I'm
barely getting what your saying cpy.  But I usually muddle through...


~Brett (KC7OTG)


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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread Ron D'Eau Claire
The appropriate reaction is "PSE QRS 10 WPM TNX OM"

Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
...I find that 9 times out of 10 people answer me
at considerably higher speed than I'm sending.  Commonly I'll call at 10WPM
and get calls at 13 to 15 which is the difference between solid cpy and I'm
barely getting what your saying cpy.  But I usually muddle through...


~Brett (KC7OTG)


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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread .k8dd.
Well, in my case it took a few years - and then around 35 wpm or so the 
receiving speed passed the sending speed.

73HankK8DD



Doug Person wrote:
> Not sure I agree.  I can send 25 WPM with a decent straight key and 
> 30-35 with a good iambic paddle.  However, I can only comfortably copy 
> 15 WPM. I have a lot of trouble with stations that just need to send at 
> 20 WPM.  I just can't quite manage that speed.
> 
> Doug -- K0DXV
> 
> k8dd. wrote:
>> dw wrote:
>>   
>>> What's the general consensus?
>>> Is it logical to assume that a person's CW sending speed approximates
>>> their copy speed?
>>> 
>>
>> Not necessarily.  I believe most people can receive CW faster than they 
>> can send CW manually - keyer, bug or straight key.  Although when they 
>> first start the opposite is probably true.
>>
>> 73HankK8DD
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread Doug Person
Not sure I agree.  I can send 25 WPM with a decent straight key and 
30-35 with a good iambic paddle.  However, I can only comfortably copy 
15 WPM. I have a lot of trouble with stations that just need to send at 
20 WPM.  I just can't quite manage that speed.

Doug -- K0DXV

k8dd. wrote:
> dw wrote:
>   
>> What's the general consensus?
>> Is it logical to assume that a person's CW sending speed approximates
>> their copy speed?
>> 
>
>
> Not necessarily.  I believe most people can receive CW faster than they 
> can send CW manually - keyer, bug or straight key.  Although when they 
> first start the opposite is probably true.
>
> 73HankK8DD
>
> 
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>   

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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread Brett Howard
I'm capable of sending much faster than I can reliably copy.  So I find what
works best for me is I send slower to start off to try and get the other
person to match my speed.  I'm sending much slower than I can but I send
slower so that I can copy.  I find that 9 times out of 10 people answer me
at considerably higher speed than I'm sending.  Commonly I'll call at 10WPM
and get calls at 13 to 15 which is the difference between solid cpy and I'm
barely getting what your saying cpy.  But I usually muddle through.

I find that I'm happiest if I can send faster and talk the other OP into
QRSing below my sending speed.  Allows me to get out what I had to say and
also get a better print of what they are saying.  I find that it often
reduces stress on the faster guy and they talk to me longer too.

~Brett (KC7OTG)

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of dw
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:27 AM
To: Elecraft_List
Subject: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

What's the general consensus?
Is it logical to assume that a person's CW sending speed approximates
their copy speed?

I can't help but assume this, and so when I call CQ and get a return
caller sending at half the speed which I called or sending extreme
farnsworth, I almost always lower my speed in order to be considerate.

Thanks
Duane
N1BBR
 
-- 
 bw...@fastmail.net

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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread Steve Ellington
brilliant.

Steve
N4LQ
n...@carolina.rr.com
- Original Message - 
From: "dw" 
To: "Elecraft_List" 
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:26 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed


> What's the general consensus?
> Is it logical to assume that a person's CW sending speed approximates
> their copy speed?
> 
> I can't help but assume this, and so when I call CQ and get a return
> caller sending at half the speed which I called or sending extreme
> farnsworth, I almost always lower my speed in order to be considerate.
> 
> Thanks
> Duane
> N1BBR
> 
> -- 
> bw...@fastmail.net
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread .k8dd.
dw wrote:
> What's the general consensus?
> Is it logical to assume that a person's CW sending speed approximates
> their copy speed?


Not necessarily.  I believe most people can receive CW faster than they 
can send CW manually - keyer, bug or straight key.  Although when they 
first start the opposite is probably true.

73HankK8DD


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Re: [Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread Grant Youngman

O
> ...  when I call CQ and get a return
> caller sending at half the speed which I called or sending extreme
> farnsworth, I almost always lower my speed in order to be considerate.

Sound like a good plan ...

Grant/NQ5T
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[Elecraft] Off-Topic: CW sending vs. recieving speed

2009-08-07 Thread dw
What's the general consensus?
Is it logical to assume that a person's CW sending speed approximates
their copy speed?

I can't help but assume this, and so when I call CQ and get a return
caller sending at half the speed which I called or sending extreme
farnsworth, I almost always lower my speed in order to be considerate.

Thanks
Duane
N1BBR
 
-- 
 bw...@fastmail.net

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