Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared *** OOPs! ***

[Chris Kimball]

My K3S is back and has worked properly for 10 days now.  Thanks to all for
the helpful comments.




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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared *** OOPs! ***

[Chris Kimball]

I just received a note from UPS that a package from Elecraft will arrive
tomorrow, presumably, the K3S.

On closer checking UPS sent two ship notifications to me on 15 Aug.  I
thought they were duplicates, but they had different numbers,  Only one of
them was cancelled, however.  The uncancelled one will arrive tomorrow.

OOPS!



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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Phil Wheeler]

So that means your power over Elecraft and UPS has disappeared?

Phil W7OX

On 8/20/16 13:27 , Chris Kimball wrote:

Twelve minutes after the announcement by UPS that:

08/15/2016  4:25 P.M.   Order Processed: Ready for UPS

I received a cancellation from UPS:

08/15/2016  4:37 P.M.   Voided Information Received

I asked Elecraft on 16 Aug what happened and have not had a reply.





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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Chris Kimball]

Twelve minutes after the announcement by UPS that:

08/15/2016  4:25 P.M.   Order Processed: Ready for UPS

I received a cancellation from UPS:

08/15/2016  4:37 P.M.   Voided Information Received 

I asked Elecraft on 16 Aug what happened and have not had a reply.



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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Don Wilhelm]

Kev,

While full failure analysis is a nice thing to do, it often takes 
significant lab equipment to fully analyze the failure point - and 
increases the time to repair (and cost to the customer).
With dense SMD boards, the problem of failure analysis is compounded 
exponentially.  It is not feasible in all cases to give a 'cause and 
effect' analysis.  The best the technician can do in a reasonable amount 
of time is to venture a WAG (wild a** guess).


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/15/2016 8:39 PM, Kevin - K4VD wrote:

It always seems slightly less than satisfying to be told what broke but not
how it might have broke. I always think back to the Navy six step
troubleshooting method drilled into me in ET "A" school. The final step was
always failure analysis.



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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Kevin - K4VD]

It always seems slightly less than satisfying to be told what broke but not
how it might have broke. I always think back to the Navy six step
troubleshooting method drilled into me in ET "A" school. The final step was
always failure analysis.

Then again, knowing it is fixed and on the way home and I'd get over it all
pretty quickly. :)

73,
Kev


On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Chris Kimball  wrote:

> Just received word from Elecraft:
>
> "
> Problem(s) found:
> No Transmit, defective DSP board
>
> Repair(s) performed:
> Replaced DSP board
> "
>
> That's not what I would have guessed, but they've checked it out and it
> goes
> back today, UPS Ground.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Chris Kimball]

Just received word from Elecraft: 

"
Problem(s) found: 
No Transmit, defective DSP board

Repair(s) performed: 
Replaced DSP board
"

That's not what I would have guessed, but they've checked it out and it goes
back today, UPS Ground.




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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Chris Kimball]

Dear Les,

I don't think it's the same problem as my K3S didn't output any power at the
5 W level of the K3 Utility test (See above). The test was done with and
without the 100 W amplifier, too.

My rig arrived at Elecraft yesterday, 11 Aug, with a predicted turn around
time of 2-3 weeks.

I'll keep all informed as things progress.




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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Chris Kimball]

Received the UPS shipping label today, 4 Aug.  Package shipped.



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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Chris Kimball]

I received the Return Service Authorization (RSA) on 27 July. I was able to
persuade Elecraft to pay the shipping. I'm awaiting a UPS shipping label
from them.



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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[N4BP]

3. I would set the temp calibration back to where it was before shipping it
back to Elecraft.

Especially since it appears that is the only change you made before the loss
of power occurred.



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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Chris Kimball]

Thanks, Bill.

1. The rig is a K3S(100)-F which I received last Tuesday, 19 July.  It has
both the antenna tuner and the general coverage option on the one and only
receiver.

2. The rig has the antenna tuner and the dummy load is on antenna 2. It
matches my existing K2/KAT/KPA connections,
so I'm familiar with having 2 antennas.

3. As received the front panel and amplifier temperatures shown were 35C. 
The rig was much cooler than that, so I calibrated both temperatures with a
room thermometer as described in the manual.

4. The voltage on the panel was 12.8V.  It comes from a bank of 3 35A-h
batteries and varies only slightly under load.

5. As suggested, I checked the PowerPoles and they're OK.  Nothing in the
operation is intermittant.

I'm waiting on an RMA from Elecraft.




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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Bill Conkling]

Couple questions:

1) What radio, K3 or K3S, or K2/100?

2) which antenna, 1 or 2?

3) You said you turned the “temps down to a more reasonable 23C…”  I don’t 
recall a temp setting, only a REF to current room temperature calibration step.

4) What is the voltage shown on the front panel display?

…billc nr4c



> On Jul 27, 2016, at 11:52 AM, Richard Fjeld  wrote:
> 
> I apologize for this, but being it's a new rig it has to be said; could there 
> be any confusion in the antenna jack selection?
> I haven't followed how it is equipped.
> 
> Dick, n0ce
> 
> 
> On 7/26/2016 7:48 PM, Chris Kimball wrote:
>> I'm a new owner and all worked fine.  After an absence of a few days I came
>> back to no power out, or , at least, very little.
>> 
>> Rig is the 100W version with ATU working into a dummy load.  In CW mode
>> adjusting the power level to 70W produces only a one segment power out.
>> Running the ATU produces a 5W indication, the usual searching rumbling, but
>> no resultant SWR. The Test mode is NOT in operation.
>> 
>> I have restored to the last working config via K3 Utility, but suspect I
>> must have "hit" something to limit the power.  The FP and AMP temps were too
>> high (35C) when the problem was noticed. I set them down to a more
>> reasonable 23C without effect. Input voltage is 12.8V.
>> 
>> Probably something trivial, but suggestions would be appreciated.
>> 
>> Chris
>> NQ8Z
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared, additional info, part 2.

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

The relative currents indicate little if any drive.  I would begin to
suspect a failure in the predriver.

> I'll contact Elecraft to see what they recommend.

I think that's your best bet given the symptoms and the fact that you
have a week old factory assembled rig.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV

On 7/27/2016 10:41 AM, Chris Kimball wrote:



Alas, I don't have a wattmeter in the shack. So I can't answer Joe's
question 1.

The current drains are:

Receive: 1.02
Transmit 10W:  2.74
Transmit 50W:  2.73

The rig is factory built and arrived only last week.  I've never opened it
up as I have no static protection gear. The rig doesn't rattle, however.

I'll contact Elecraft to see what they recommend.




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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Richard Fjeld]

I apologize for this, but being it's a new rig it has to be said; could 
there be any confusion in the antenna jack selection?

I haven't followed how it is equipped.

Dick, n0ce


On 7/26/2016 7:48 PM, Chris Kimball wrote:

I'm a new owner and all worked fine.  After an absence of a few days I came
back to no power out, or , at least, very little.

Rig is the 100W version with ATU working into a dummy load.  In CW mode
adjusting the power level to 70W produces only a one segment power out.
Running the ATU produces a 5W indication, the usual searching rumbling, but
no resultant SWR. The Test mode is NOT in operation.

I have restored to the last working config via K3 Utility, but suspect I
must have "hit" something to limit the power.  The FP and AMP temps were too
high (35C) when the problem was noticed. I set them down to a more
reasonable 23C without effect. Input voltage is 12.8V.

Probably something trivial, but suggestions would be appreciated.

Chris
NQ8Z





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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared, additional info, part 2.

[Chris Kimball]

Alas, I don't have a wattmeter in the shack. So I can't answer Joe's
question 1.

The current drains are:

Receive: 1.02
Transmit 10W:  2.74
Transmit 50W:  2.73

The rig is factory built and arrived only last week.  I've never opened it
up as I have no static protection gear. The rig doesn't rattle, however.

I'll contact Elecraft to see what they recommend.




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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared, additional info, part 3.

[Chris Kimball]

K6MKF suggested I run the Calibrate Transmitter Gain function from K3
Utility. The rig failed at both the 5 and 50W levels because the output was
inadequate.  I think it may be a hardware problem.

Operator ineptitude is still a possibility!



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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared, additional info, part 2.

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Have you tried an external wattmeter to check for power output?

When you make your tests, have you looked at the current draw (use the
internal current measuring capability)?  What is the current with the
rig set to high power (100W) and low power (10W)?

Have you checked the hardware on the low power amplifier (motherboard
and bottom cover)?

Question 1 is an attempt to determine if the internal wattmeter has
failed.

Question 2 is an attempt to determine if the 8.12 MHz (IF) trap has
opened.

Question 3 leads to the possibility that the pre-driver has failed
because of insufficient heat sinking (loose hardware).

If your rig started life as a 10W radio and you have the PA jumper
board, I would also recommend removing the KPA3/switching board
and installing the jumper to conduct low power tests.

Beyond this, I suspect you should be contacting k3supp...@elecraft.com
to arrange for factory support/return for diagnosis/repair.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 7/27/2016 9:29 AM, Chris Kimball wrote:

Thanks for the comments.

The rig is NOT in the TEST mode, that is, the display TX is not flashing.
Holding the TEST mode produces informative messages in the VFO B area both
on turn on and turn off.  I'm not certain that the TEST mode produces ANY
indication at all in the RF scale.

I've bypassed both the KPAT and KAT and set the power to 10W.  Into a dummy
load I still get just one segment in the RF output, the segment being about
twice the width of the end tick on the RF scale.  There is a distinctive
click in going below 13W output.

The rig has only 1 receiver and that receiver has the general coverage
option. I've tried operating on 80, 40, and 20m with the same no-output
result.

Just reloaded the latest firmware with K3 Utility. No change in RF output,
unfortunately.



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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared, additional info, part 2.

[Chris Kimball]

Thanks for the comments. 

The rig is NOT in the TEST mode, that is, the display TX is not flashing. 
Holding the TEST mode produces informative messages in the VFO B area both
on turn on and turn off.  I'm not certain that the TEST mode produces ANY
indication at all in the RF scale.

I've bypassed both the KPAT and KAT and set the power to 10W.  Into a dummy
load I still get just one segment in the RF output, the segment being about
twice the width of the end tick on the RF scale.  There is a distinctive
click in going below 13W output.

The rig has only 1 receiver and that receiver has the general coverage
option. I've tried operating on 80, 40, and 20m with the same no-output
result.

Just reloaded the latest firmware with K3 Utility. No change in RF output,
unfortunately.



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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared, additional info.

[Barry Simpson]

Hi Chris

It sounds as if you have put the rig into Test mode - the middle button on
the far left of the front panel.

Barry  VK2BJ

On 27 July 2016 at 21:34, Chris Kimball  wrote:

> Thanks to all who responded.  Alas, the problem continues.
>
> Let me respond to the queries to date:
>
> 1. The rig is a recent K3S (100W).
> 2. The KPAT is on, "PA nor".
> 3. The circuit breaker seems fine.  No red showing on button, button feels
> loose.
> 4. Operation is into a dummy load, without wattmeter.
>
> I've tried using the TUNE button, setting the TUN PWR level to 20W. On
> pushing TUNE, the panel says 0 W, even though it was set to 20W.
>
> In CW mode, the ALC shows reasonable ALC movement on CW sending.  RF output
> remains at 1 segment.
>
> Note: No error message has been received of any kind.  All operation, other
> than RF output, is fine.
>
> The last contact I had before leaving on the trip was on SSB just to set up
> the mike. All worked fine on 20 m.  Perhaps I "hit" something in playing
> with SSB.
>
>
>
>
>
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[Elecraft] Power has disappeared, additional info.

[Chris Kimball]

Thanks to all who responded.  Alas, the problem continues.

Let me respond to the queries to date:

1. The rig is a recent K3S (100W).
2. The KPAT is on, "PA nor".
3. The circuit breaker seems fine.  No red showing on button, button feels
loose.
4. Operation is into a dummy load, without wattmeter.

I've tried using the TUNE button, setting the TUN PWR level to 20W. On
pushing TUNE, the panel says 0 W, even though it was set to 20W.

In CW mode, the ALC shows reasonable ALC movement on CW sending.  RF output
remains at 1 segment.

Note: No error message has been received of any kind.  All operation, other
than RF output, is fine.

The last contact I had before leaving on the trip was on SSB just to set up
the mike. All worked fine on 20 m.  Perhaps I "hit" something in playing
with SSB.





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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Richard Fjeld]

I don't think you stated, so I will ask;
Did you check the circuit breaker in back?

Dick, n0ce


On 7/26/2016 7:48 PM, Chris Kimball wrote:

I'm a new owner and all worked fine.  After an absence of a few days I came
back to no power out, or , at least, very little.

Rig is the 100W version with ATU working into a dummy load.  In CW mode
adjusting the power level to 70W produces only a one segment power out.
Running the ATU produces a 5W indication, the usual searching rumbling, but
no resultant SWR. The Test mode is NOT in operation.

I have restored to the last working config via K3 Utility, but suspect I
must have "hit" something to limit the power.  The FP and AMP temps were too
high (35C) when the problem was noticed. I set them down to a more
reasonable 23C without effect. Input voltage is 12.8V.

Probably something trivial, but suggestions would be appreciated.

Chris
NQ8Z



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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Ken Arck]

Obvious question - did you check it with an external wattmeter/dummy load?


At 05:48 PM 7/26/2016, Chris Kimball wrote:

I'm a new owner and all worked fine.  After an absence of a few days I came
back to no power out, or , at least, very little.

Rig is the 100W version with ATU working into a dummy load.  In CW mode
adjusting the power level to 70W produces only a one segment power out.
Running the ATU produces a 5W indication, the usual searching rumbling, but
no resultant SWR. The Test mode is NOT in operation.

I have restored to the last working config via K3 Utility, but suspect I
must have "hit" something to limit the power.  The FP and AMP temps were too
high (35C) when the problem was noticed. I set them down to a more
reasonable 23C without effect. Input voltage is 12.8V.

Probably something trivial, but suggestions would be appreciated.

Chris
NQ8Z



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Re: [Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Phil Wheeler]

K3 or K3s?

On 7/26/16 5:48 PM, Chris Kimball wrote:

I'm a new owner and all worked fine.  After an absence of a few days I came
back to no power out, or , at least, very little.

Rig is the 100W version with ATU working into a dummy load.  In CW mode
adjusting the power level to 70W produces only a one segment power out.
Running the ATU produces a 5W indication, the usual searching rumbling, but
no resultant SWR. The Test mode is NOT in operation.

I have restored to the last working config via K3 Utility, but suspect I
must have "hit" something to limit the power.  The FP and AMP temps were too
high (35C) when the problem was noticed. I set them down to a more
reasonable 23C without effect. Input voltage is 12.8V.

Probably something trivial, but suggestions would be appreciated.

Chris
NQ8Z


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[Elecraft] Power has disappeared

[Chris Kimball]

I'm a new owner and all worked fine.  After an absence of a few days I came
back to no power out, or , at least, very little.

Rig is the 100W version with ATU working into a dummy load.  In CW mode
adjusting the power level to 70W produces only a one segment power out.
Running the ATU produces a 5W indication, the usual searching rumbling, but
no resultant SWR. The Test mode is NOT in operation.

I have restored to the last working config via K3 Utility, but suspect I
must have "hit" something to limit the power.  The FP and AMP temps were too
high (35C) when the problem was noticed. I set them down to a more
reasonable 23C without effect. Input voltage is 12.8V.

Probably something trivial, but suggestions would be appreciated.

Chris
NQ8Z



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