[Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker
I do have to agree with the comments for the NB in the K2. I do have power line noise in my QTH which seems to be unaffected by the K2NB, especially when it falls below an S9 level, which sometimes can be the limiting factor in completing a QSO. The majority of the time I have to engage the Preamp in order for the K2NB to start detecting the pulses, and at that level of Rx gain, the receiver may become overloaded by nearby strong signals if present. From all other rigs that have come here at different times, only the NB in a TT Corsair 560 used to behave in a similar way. In order of NB function, the best rigs I have tried so far are TS830, 930 and Drake TR7. For a receiver of the K2 caliber, I believe, it is worth every penny and construction effort, even if it means incorporating a pre-made surface mount module for the NB in order to improve on the NB area which seems to be suboptimal. For example an expensive and/or difficult to build but optimized NB module will be FAR more desirable and effective feature in a real world Rx performance improvement rather than a similar DSP module that is already available from Elecraft. These are my $.02 opinion about the NB, which may be the only area that needs some improvement in a radio that has no equal in the market today. And can definitely make a difference for people wanting to have a K2 as their only/main rig in a urban QTHas most of us live. 73, Marinos, ki4gin ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, Marinos Markomanolakis, M.D. wrote: For example an expensive and/or difficult to build but optimized NB module will be FAR more desirable and effective feature in a real world Rx performance improvement rather than a similar DSP module that is already available from Elecraft. These are my $.02 opinion about the NB, which may be the only area that needs some improvement in a radio that has no equal in the market today. And can definitely make a difference for people wanting to have a K2 as their only/main rig in a urban QTHas most of us live. Couldn't agree more...I live in a very old part of the city here...surrounded by industrial users of power, a leaking power grid and a utility that doesn't care. Since I've gotten back on the air the K2 sits on the desk, glaring at me because it's virtually useless with S9+ QRN. If I'm lucky, I can operate between 2 AM and 6 AM, as long as I turn off the oil burner since it too acts like an arc gap. Thom www.baltimorehon.com/Home of the Baltimore Lexicon www.tlchost.net/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker
Hi Thom. Not to prolong the agony (I think that Wayne has already put this on the list - hope it moves up to a high priority), but I have the same problem as you do and for general power-line noise, my KNB2 is useless - however, there is a certain pop, popping, frying noise that is S9+30 on 80 meters that it eliminates completely!! Too bad I don't operate 80! I'd be glad to beta test something if anyone's got some mods (yes, I already tried changing the NB2 capacitor a number of times all to no avail). Now before anyone gets too terribly defensive, I've already rated my K2 as way above my Pro II and the Mark V - but simply put, the noise blanker could use some technical attention. 73 es Happy New Year --Don N4HH K2/100/#2028/KPA100, etc. etc. - Original Message - From: Thom R. Lacosta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Marinos Markomanolakis, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, Marinos Markomanolakis, M.D. wrote: snip Couldn't agree more...I live in a very old part of the city here...surrounded by industrial users of power, a leaking power grid and a utility that doesn't care. snip -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/04 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker
Partial repeat of Marinos Markomanolakis, M.D. 2 Jan/05 For a receiver of the K2 caliber, I believe, it is worth every penny and construction effort, even if it means incorporating a pre-made surface mount module for the NB in order to improve on the NB area which seems to be suboptimal. For example an expensive and/or difficult to build but optimized NB module will be FAR more desirable and effective feature in a real world Rx performance improvement rather than a similar DSP module that is already available from Elecraft. These are my $.02 opinion about the NB, which may be the only area that needs some improvement in a radio that has no equal in the market today. And can definitely make a difference for people wanting to have a K2 as their only/main rig in a urban QTHas most of us live. 73, Marinos, ki4gin Excellent Marinos. Thats what I wanted to say! I am using my K2 as my main rig due to it's excellent features except when I must switch due to city noise. I do, of course, have a variable gain preamp that I built for my 80/160 phased loops that in turn feeds my K2 so I have plenty of rf at the blanker input.and the scope confirms it. There is nothing wrong with the blanking pulse widths. This low level city hash is simply not triggering the blanking mv due to other blanker problems. With my old Kenwood TS-140S and other rigs I typically see a 3 S unit drop in a S4 city noise floor and the weak ones jump out of it. We 160m noise eaters would buy a good RF noise blanker even if the box was twice the size of the K2. Aloha, Bryce, kh6at ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker
See comments below: - Original Message - From: VR2BrettGraham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker (GainreductioninNB2 posit... W3FPR replied to KH6AT that gated noise blankers cannot be expected to work when the noise pulse is insufficient to reach the gating threshold that more signal might improve performance when blanking weak noise. Sounds reasonable, but... I believe my other radios have gated noise blankers. They behave far better than the KNB2 in my K2 - even on noise that presumably is what the KNB2 was designed for (chain saws, dirt bikes similar stuff that might be encountered by backpackers) - regardless of strength. Outside of the type of noise the blanker is tailored for, why would it be that a number of folks using one particular radio with a gated noise blanker (K2 with KNB2) find the performance to be lacking compared to other radios also with gated noise blankers? OTOH, many have reported that the K2 blanker is better. I don't know the real answer, but I can guess that the gain of a particular receiver ahead of the noise blanker would make a big difference. Multi-conversion receiver designers have a lot more places to put the noise blanker (and more control over the gain at that point) than is possible in a single conversion receiver like the K2. Try the K2 NB with the preamp set on to see if that makes any difference, you may be surprised. 73, Don W3FPR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker
W3FPR added: W3FPR replied to KH6AT that gated noise blankers cannot be expected to work when the noise pulse is insufficient to reach the gating threshold that more signal might improve performance when blanking weak noise. Sounds reasonable, but... I believe my other radios have gated noise blankers. They behave far better than the KNB2 in my K2 - even on noise that presumably is what the KNB2 was designed for (chain saws, dirt bikes similar stuff that might be encountered by backpackers) - regardless of strength. Outside of the type of noise the blanker is tailored for, why would it be that a number of folks using one particular radio with a gated noise blanker (K2 with KNB2) find the performance to be lacking compared to other radios also with gated noise blankers? OTOH, many have reported that the K2 blanker is better. I don't know the real answer, but I can guess that the gain of a particular receiver ahead of the noise blanker would make a big difference. Multi-conversion receiver designers have a lot more places to put the noise blanker (and more control over the gain at that point) than is possible in a single conversion receiver like the K2. Try the K2 NB with the preamp set on to see if that makes any difference, you may be surprised. My impression is that whenever there is mention of the KNB2, there are more posts about its ineffectiveness than anything else, as is the case with this current thread. I cannot recall any other rig using anything other than a gated noise blanker, including those with single conversion receivers, such as the TS-820. I do not have an 820 here, but from my recollection of using one with a vertical in an urban W7 environment, its noise blanker performed better overall than the KNB2 in my K2/100. Combinations of PREAMP NB LEVEL settings on the K2 here tends to have one of two results: no effect on noise, or totally trashing the receiver. My current QTH is in the middle of a mixed residential/industrial area, with garages work yards just next door doing plenty of arc welding other unsociable electromagnetic activities going on all around me - the KNB2 is useless on most of it even my lowly IC-706 does better. I would suggest it is more a matter of the design of the KNB2 than the fact that the K2 is a single conversion receiver. I would agree with you that variation in gain between K2s may be part of the problem, though that really comes back to the design in the first place (consistency, repeatability ease of assembly alignment being desirable in any product, even a kit). I also suspect that there are other factors that are involved or at least aggravate things, as I find the KNB2 to be especially useless during times that the AGC is responding to out of band energy (the EU 17m problem recently noted in a post here by a bloke in NA - I experience this on 15, 17, 20 sometimes 30m). But as the KNB2's performance continues to surface here from time to time, there must be something behind it - we have enjoyed far better performance from noise blankers in products with single, double or however number of conversions in the receiver for decades. I for one hope that in any future products, Elecraft can improve upon this other attributes of their products that are lacking in comparison to others on the market. 73, VR2BrettGraham ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker
[EMAIL PROTECTED] added: Er, I think people who don't have any trouble with it have no inclination to respond. While I don't think it's the best noise blanker I've ever used, my K2 is unusuable at my urban location without it. True - as well as folks who are fortunate not to need to use the noise blanker much, if not at all (my situation when I first started using my K2). On the noise here (power line noise and also some weird industrial electrical noise) the noise blanker on the K2 works better than the noise blanker on the IC-706MKIIG. I am frustrated this morning in not being able to measure the duration of the noise pulses I have on 15 that the KNB2 will not touch but a TS-950S' blanker does, which I suspect is from a power line as things have been very cold dry here (3-11C 30-40% RH) recently. As the bands are not so good, I do not have constant S-meter indication from out of band energy, so the noise amp should not be choked by the AGC. Is it not triggering, or is it that the noise gate is not triggered to coincide with the pulses? It is like it does nothing this is the kind of noise that from my experience is well within the capability of noise blankers of other radios. My KNB2 has blanked noise (so it probably is working normally), but is very finicky about what it will work on. It is likely I would not be able to hear much of anything with my K2 from where I operate in 9M6, as last time I was there there was S9 noise just like this everywhere. This is unfortunate, as there are other attributes of the K2 that are far superior to my other equipment. 73, VR2BrettGraham ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker
On Sat, Jan 01, 2005 at 05:20:19PM -0800, Hisashi T Fujinaka wrote: On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, VR2BrettGraham wrote: My impression is that whenever there is mention of the KNB2, there are more posts about its ineffectiveness than anything else, as is the case with this current thread. Er, I think people who don't have any trouble with it have no inclination to respond. While I don't think it's the best noise blanker I've ever used, my K2 is unusuable at my urban location without it. On the noise here (power line noise and also some weird industrial electrical noise) the noise blanker on the K2 works better than the noise blanker on the IC-706MKIIG. Being in a semi-rural environment, I find that I don't have too many times when the KNB2 is needed. When the occasion does occur, it seems to no less effective than the noise blanker on my TS-570D. Although it is designed for a different noise characteristic, I find that the noise reduction of the KDSP2 is much more effective than that of the TS-570D. Bob Nielsen, N7XY Bainbridge Island, WA ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker
For what it's worth, with just one button press, my KNB2 will blank out some pretty ugly pulse noise where I live that the blanker in my Ten-Tec Orion only barely touches. Not bad for one dinky little board, in my opinion. 73 all, Bob WA4FOM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker (Gain reductioninNB2 posit...
Hi Don, I agree, but as Mike, KK5F, pointed out, and I also noticed with my old TS-830S and TS-140S, when using the same receive only phased loops both of those rigs work fine at that low level and the K2, even with K2 preamp on, doesn't. It would be a better idea to put more gain in series with the NB pulse amp and put a nb level control on it so it will work as well as the antique gear. I have dxcc on 160m from a city lot and noise blankers are a big thing in my life. Hi. Aloha, .Bryce, kh6at - Original Message - From: W3FPR - Don Wilhelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bryce A. Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mike Morrow [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 1:14 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker (Gain reductioninNB2 posit... Bryce, Certainly, when the noise pulse is not strong enough to reach the gating threshold, no blanking will occur. The solution is to add a preamplifier. In some cases it will be sufficient to just turn on the preamplifier in the K2, it does depend on the Rx antenna output level. Any gated noise blanker will have similar behavior, it is not unique to the K2 implementation. 73, Don W3FPR - Original Message - Amen! The K2 NB is particularly poor when using low level rx only ants as noise pulses are heard in audio, but are not adequate strength to trigger the blanking mv. Aloha, Bryce, kh6at ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker (Gain reduction in NB2 position)
Hello all, I just completed the KNB2 and added it to my K2 transceiver. All menu indications are as they should be and the blanker seems to be working correctly in the NB1 mode at both HI and LO THR settings. The receiver gain seems normal. I have a question about using the noise blanker in the NB2 mode. Is it normal to see a big reduction in gain through the receiver? When I switch to NB2, either HI or LO THR, band noise and all signals drop by quite a few S points. I have checked the board and don't see any errors. Before I dig deeper into this I'd be grateful for any comments about overall RX gain when using NB2. If gain should be unaffected, I would be grateful for any pointers of where to look. Many thanks. Ken. -- Ken G3WCS [EMAIL PROTECTED] IO83rh : Cheshire : NW England (+44) (0)870 765 1632 (home) (+44) (0)7733 400 950 (mobile sms) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker (Gain reduction in NB2 posit...
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 05:46:52 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ken, This effect of gain reduction when NB2 is selected does not happen on my K2. A question is are you receiving large doses of noise that the blanker is removing as the operation of a noise blankers is to cut out the affected section? If the noise is severe enough this can result in distortion and reduction of signal. You can check this by disconnecting the antenna and observing a signal from an RF generator under the same test. Took quite a time before I could even say my NB was even working. Only works with the right kind of noise such as ignition interference. Shades of British Rail and their problems with the wrong kind of leaves on the railway lines! Regards, Bob, G3VVT K2 #4168 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Hi Ken, No loss of signal when switching in my NB, but it is very selective on what type of noise it blanks. 73 Stewart G3RXQ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker (Gain reduction in NB2 posit...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ken, This effect of gain reduction when NB2 is selected does not happen on my K2. Hi Chaps. Thanks to all for the replies. I have fixed the problem now. It was the 2N7000 FET (Q6) on the KNB2 board. I used an anti-static wrist strap and mat during construction so thought ESD protection was OK. Maybe faulty from the start. Maybe me. Who knows? Anyway, working correctly on both NB1 and NB2 now with no reduction of gain. Just need to find another 2N7000 for my XV60 board. Thanks again and Happy New Year. Ken. -- Ken G3WCS [EMAIL PROTECTED] IO83rh : Cheshire : NW England (+44) (0)870 765 1632 (home) (+44) (0)7733 400 950 (mobile sms) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker (Gain reduction in NB2 posit...
Stewart wrote: No loss of signal when switching in my NB, but it is very selective on what type of noise it blanks. The very simple noise blankers of the K1 and K2 seem to help only on ignition, motor commutator, and other such similar noise. These blankers seem completely ineffective on all of the various types of power line noise I've encountered, unlike the more sophisticated blankers in most other rigs produced in the past 25 years. The blankers in my ancient 22-year-old TS-430 and 11-year-old TS-50 work wonders in comparison. Maybe it's time for a re-design of the Elecraft blanker system. 73, Mike / KK5F ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker (Gain reduction in NB2 posit...
I've had the opposite luck. My K2 takes out local electrical noise and ignition noise where my TS-570S and IC-746 noise blankers didn't do a thing. I've been very happy with the noise blanker in my K2 and think that's been the best option for the buck! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker (Gain reduction inNB2 posit...
I find the KNB2 in my K2 to be very effective on the usual type of powerline noise I encounter. However there is a variant, which sounds the same to the ear, that the blanker won't touch. I don't have a 'scope so can't look at what the difference in waveform might be, but in general I am quite pleased with the blanker. That, plus the NR mode of the KDSP2 provides really good noise reduction. Doug W6JD K2/100 #1626 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker (Gain reduction inNB2 posit... I've had the opposite luck. My K2 takes out local electrical noise and ignition noise where my TS-570S and IC-746 noise blankers didn't do a thing. I've been very happy with the noise blanker in my K2 and think that's been the best option for the buck! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker (Gain reduction inNB2 posit...
Amen! The K2 NB is particularly poor when using low level rx only ants as noise pulses are heard in audio, but are not adequate strength to trigger the blanking mv. Aloha, Bryce, kh6at - Original Message - From: Mike Morrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 6:43 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question about KNB2 Noise Blanker (Gain reduction inNB2 posit... Stewart wrote: No loss of signal when switching in my NB, but it is very selective on what type of noise it blanks. The very simple noise blankers of the K1 and K2 seem to help only on ignition, motor commutator, and other such similar noise. These blankers seem completely ineffective on all of the various types of power line noise I've encountered, unlike the more sophisticated blankers in most other rigs produced in the past 25 years. The blankers in my ancient 22-year-old TS-430 and 11-year-old TS-50 work wonders in comparison. Maybe it's time for a re-design of the Elecraft blanker system. 73, Mike / KK5F ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
