Re: [Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum?
O. Johns wrote: Also, 740.0 is within a fraction of a Hertz of a correctly tuned (well-tempered tuning) F#. So there is good reason to have the increments of sidetone pitch be 10 Hz rather than 50 Hz. Might it not be better to use a logarithmic scale (e.g. equal tempered semi-tones) or a near logarithmic scale, with rational frequency ratios (natural (is this well tempered?) semitones). -- David Woolley The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio List Guidelines http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum?
Please forgive me for jumping in without having fully followed this thread so if this has been mentioned already, I apologize. I have a visual zero beat indicator on my K2 which was supplied by Tom N0SS. Works great uses the 10th LED of the S/RF meter to tell when a signal if in the middle. Again I've only been partially following so this has been already mentioned Tom wb2qdg k2 1103 Original Message - From: Norm Duxbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:52 PM Subject: [Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum? Willis, Don't forget, your K3 will have CWT which gives a visual indication of cw zero beat. It works very well. 73, Norm - W1MO 'Cookie' wrote:I don't know what technique I will use with my K3. I will have to wait until I get it on the air to find out. (December 27 order and still waiting). ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: Re: [Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum?
David Woolley (E.L) wrote: div class=moz-text-flowed style=font-family: -moz-fixedO. Johns wrote: Also, 740.0 is within a fraction of a Hertz of a correctly tuned (well-tempered tuning) F#. So there is good reason to have the increments of sidetone pitch be 10 Hz rather than 50 Hz. Might it not be better to use a logarithmic scale (e.g. equal tempered semi-tones) or a near logarithmic scale, with rational frequency ratios (natural (is this well tempered?) semitones). Only if you're running CW on a clavier. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2008 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 08 - www.cqp.org ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum?
Willis, Don't forget, your K3 will have CWT which gives a visual indication of cw zero beat. It works very well. 73, Norm - W1MO 'Cookie' wrote:I don't know what technique I will use with my K3. I will have to wait until I get it on the air to find out. (December 27 order and still waiting). ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum?
-Original Message- From: O. Johns A pitch of 880 Hz is an exactly tuned A, twice the canonical 440 that orchestras are tuned to. Musical people might like to use 880 to avoid upsetting their sense of pitch by hearing an off-key sidetone all day. Probably only an issue for the few of us who have perfect pitch. Personally, I'd rather run 440 Hz than 880 Hz. Oh wait, I play bass. I guess I should be using side tones below 100 Hz :-). I'd suggest that, if the hardware registers permit it, the firmware on the K3 should allow a sidetone from 200 Hz to 1000 Hz by 10 Hz increments. The wider your range, the worse your accuracy. By the way, I find on my K2 that setting the sidetone readout to 730 actually gives an audio pitch of 740 Hz. But setting to 440 actually gives 440. This is the result of granularity in the registers, I assume. On the K3, the actual pitches should be within 1Hz of their settings, or so I hope. I am S glad the days of 1000 Hz and 800 Hz sidetones are gone for me. Listening to those high pitches is irritating to most I suspect. I know it is for me. I'd rather have 10 Hz steps over a range of say 300 to 700 than to have 50 Hz steps over a range of 200 to 1000. In the end, it's just a side tone. If it is a nice pure sine wave somewhere between 400 Hz and 600 Hz, I'll be just as happy as can be! YPTMV (Your preferred tone may vary) - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum?
From this discussion, it is good to find that there are others like me who have a difficult time with zero-beating at any pitch. It is also interesting that those with good pitch recognition are mystified by the problems we encounter. It is likely that we all can detect the close-in low pitched beat note between two signals when that beat note is 20 Hz or lower - the problem I have is getting close enough to create that low pitched beat. I hear two tones, but whether the signal is higher or lower than the sidetone is often a mystery - sure, I can get them close with trial and error, but that takes time. Once tuned closely, it is an easy matter to listen to that low pitched 3rd tone (the beat). Thank goodness for zero beat detectors and Spectrogram displays for taking the mystery out of this procedure for those of us with 'tin ears'. 73, Don W3FPR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum?
Don, Et Al, Just a note: While I am fairly musically inclined, I find that most rigs (including the KX-1 and FT-757) produce a non-sinusoidal note which I can't seem to consistently get my brain around. I find myself going to spectrum programs a lot... Regards, kurtt Kurt Pawlikowski, AKA WB9FMC The Pinrod Corporation [EMAIL PROTECTED] (773) 284-9500 http://pinrod.com Don Wilhelm wrote: From this discussion, it is good to find that there are others like me who have a difficult time with zero-beating at any pitch. It is also interesting that those with good pitch recognition are mystified by the problems we encounter. It is likely that we all can detect the close-in low pitched beat note between two signals when that beat note is 20 Hz or lower - the problem I have is getting close enough to create that low pitched beat. I hear two tones, but whether the signal is higher or lower than the sidetone is often a mystery - sure, I can get them close with trial and error, but that takes time. Once tuned closely, it is an easy matter to listen to that low pitched 3rd tone (the beat). Thank goodness for zero beat detectors and Spectrogram displays for taking the mystery out of this procedure for those of us with 'tin ears'. 73, Don W3FPR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum?
I am as tone deaf as anyone. I can't hear anything above about 2.7 khz because of tinnitus. The technique that I use with my TS-850 is to tune for max volume of the desired signal. If I don't get my station on the first try, I tweek the tuning to a bit higher pitch and try again. That usually works. I don't know what technique I will use with my K3. I will have to wait until I get it on the air to find out. (December 27 order and still waiting). Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum?
O. Johns napsal(a): I'd suggest that, if the hardware registers permit it, the firmware on the K3 should allow a sidetone from 200 Hz to 1000 Hz by 10 Hz increments. Increment of 10Hz is also listed on wish-list on http://www.zerobeat.net/smf/index.php/board,25.0.html will be very useful, 73! Lexa, OK1DST K3/10 #727 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum?
Dear Lexa, I'm glad to hear that 10 Hz increments are at least being considered. That would be a big help. Even the K2 has 10 Hz increments. But there is still the issue of the highest pitch allowed. Different people have very different ears. For me, the higher tones are much easier to hear, probably because of some hearing loss at midrange frequencies. It seems that an 800 Hz top is just too low. A top of 1000 Hz or more would be much better for some of us. Wayne, is a raising of the top from 800 to 1000 or higher being considered? Is it even possible? 73, Oliver Johns W6ODJ On 15 May 2008, at 10:33 AM, Alexandr Kobranov wrote: O. Johns napsal(a): I'd suggest that, if the hardware registers permit it, the firmware on the K3 should allow a sidetone from 200 Hz to 1000 Hz by 10 Hz increments. Increment of 10Hz is also listed on wish-list on http://www.zerobeat.net/smf/index.php/board,25.0.html will be very useful, 73! Lexa, OK1DST K3/10 #727 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum?
800 Hz is the highest pitch you can select for your sidetone. But this has no effect on auto-spot. It will search the same amount above/below any selected pitch. On May 14, 2008, at 9:27 AM, G4ILO wrote: K4IA wrote: On another note, I have to question why a pitch of 800hz is the maximum the K3 will allow. --- http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Zero beat hint and why 800hz maximum?
Dear Wayne, A pitch of 880 Hz is an exactly tuned A, twice the canonical 440 that orchestras are tuned to. Musical people might like to use 880 to avoid upsetting their sense of pitch by hearing an off-key sidetone all day. Also, 740.0 is within a fraction of a Hertz of a correctly tuned (well-tempered tuning) F#. So there is good reason to have the increments of sidetone pitch be 10 Hz rather than 50 Hz. I'd suggest that, if the hardware registers permit it, the firmware on the K3 should allow a sidetone from 200 Hz to 1000 Hz by 10 Hz increments. By the way, I find on my K2 that setting the sidetone readout to 730 actually gives an audio pitch of 740 Hz. But setting to 440 actually gives 440. This is the result of granularity in the registers, I assume. On the K3, the actual pitches should be within 1Hz of their settings, or so I hope. 73, Oliver Johns W6ODJ On 14 May 2008, at 9:36 AM, wayne burdick wrote: 800 Hz is the highest pitch you can select for your sidetone. But this has no effect on auto-spot. It will search the same amount above/below any selected pitch. On May 14, 2008, at 9:27 AM, G4ILO wrote: K4IA wrote: On another note, I have to question why a pitch of 800hz is the maximum the K3 will allow. --- http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
