Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight
Hi Kevin Tnx a million for your valuable response. I don't know if there is a definition of a 50% weight ratio on a shaped waveform, but I surely know what the displayed waveform sounds like! And it looks just like what I had expected. I am a little embarassed on behalf of Elecraft that this was not readily available info. After all, most buyers of Elecraft devices probably are keen CW operators and my guess is that a lot of us have bought Elecraft exactly for a reason: to be sure to have the best CW rig on the market. It still is pretty good, but the internal keyer problem is a flaw. Therefore, Elecraft, how about a modification which enables the internal K2 keyer actually providing 50% weight. 73 from an Elecraft lover Paul, OZ4UN -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] På vegne af w9cf Sendt: 23. april 2011 20:23 Til: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Emne: Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) wrote: Thanks Don and others for referring me to the CW bandwidth mod (wave shape mod). It shows the fine waveform of the K2. Mine is ser. 4662 and has that mod. I am by no means complaining about the waveshape - it is superb. I am only complaining a little bit about the inability to reach 50% weight. It is quite close and maybe acceptable to most operators and for me it is only a problem at QRQ. I have asked many times, but nobody has yet answered my simple question of what the minimum weight should be (when set to 0,9). 73, Paul OZ4UN Paul, I don't know exactly how the weight is defined for a shaped wave form. So to answer your question for my K2, I put the wave form from my K2 serial number 5235 when set at 40 wpm and weight 0.90 and at 1.10 in the files: http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/k2/40wpm_090wt.jpg and http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/k2/40wpm_110wt.jpg 40 wpm should take 60 milliseconds between dots. You can see that, at the default weight of 1.10, it takes something like 67 milliseconds between dots and is quite heavy. At 0.90 the time between dots is about 60 milliseconds, but it looks to me to be a weight of at least 1.0 and probably more. I recorded these with my K2 set at minimum power into a dummy load, and used a separate receiver to the sound card on my laptop (the receiver was my ATS-4a which has no AGC). I hope this helps. 73 Kevin w9cf -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/key-dot-weight-tp6259927p6299903.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight
I gently suggest that what the K3 needs is a Configuration option for Keying Compensation. Keying Compensation is different from Key Weighting. See page 10 of this document for a good explanation. http://k1el.tripod.com/files/Winkey10.pdf The K3 needs about 6 milliseconds of Keying Compensation to sound and be right. I use both the K1EL WinKeyer and CMOS Super Keyer II which provide Keying Compensation adjustment. If Elecraft implements Keying Compensation, please make it effective for both the internal keyer and external keying. Right now, using the internal keyer produces distinctly light keying at any speed above 25 WPM. Note, it will not sound light to you because the monitor side tone has no shaping. But the signal going out on the air is light. Ski Exuberantly, Hank, W6SX Mammoth Lakes, California Elevation 8083 feet in John Muir's Range of Light __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight
Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) wrote: Thanks Don and others for referring me to the CW bandwidth mod (wave shape mod). It shows the fine waveform of the K2. Mine is ser. 4662 and has that mod. I am by no means complaining about the waveshape - it is superb. I am only complaining a little bit about the inability to reach 50% weight. It is quite close and maybe acceptable to most operators and for me it is only a problem at QRQ. I have asked many times, but nobody has yet answered my simple question of what the minimum weight should be (when set to 0,9). 73, Paul OZ4UN Paul, I don't know exactly how the weight is defined for a shaped wave form. So to answer your question for my K2, I put the wave form from my K2 serial number 5235 when set at 40 wpm and weight 0.90 and at 1.10 in the files: http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/k2/40wpm_090wt.jpg and http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/k2/40wpm_110wt.jpg 40 wpm should take 60 milliseconds between dots. You can see that, at the default weight of 1.10, it takes something like 67 milliseconds between dots and is quite heavy. At 0.90 the time between dots is about 60 milliseconds, but it looks to me to be a weight of at least 1.0 and probably more. I recorded these with my K2 set at minimum power into a dummy load, and used a separate receiver to the sound card on my laptop (the receiver was my ATS-4a which has no AGC). I hope this helps. 73 Kevin w9cf -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/key-dot-weight-tp6259927p6299903.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight
I have raised the problem of keying weight on the K2 several times earlier - but I never got an answer. So I'll try again. The dot weight ratio on my K2 is unable to reach 50% on my K2. Even with weight set to 90% (0,90) the weight is too heavy. Fortunately a somewhat higher weight sounds better than a somewhat low weight, so maybe thats the reason why there is not much discussion about K2 internal keyer. But for higher speeds a correct weight is important. For my taste the keyer is not acceptable and I soon gave up using it entirely. Is this a specific problem for my K2 or is it a generic issue? What is the actual measured weight range in Elecraft labs? I found the K3 keyer much better ;-) 73, Paul OZ4UN -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] På vegne af Don Wilhelm Sendt: 11. april 2011 03:37 Til: John Cooper Cc: elecraft Emne: Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight John, What keying speed were you using? Key weighting changes the ratio between a dot and an intervening space. It is not likely that you will notice a difference at speeds below 25 or 30 WPM. Below those speeds, I suggest leaving the ratio at 1.00. If you are doing higher speeds, you might want to increase the weighting a bit if your keying sounds light - I know this is a perception issue, so there are no real answers to what is right. A lot of the answer depends on the particular operator's experience and how he likes to listen to CW at higher speeds. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/10/2011 8:56 PM, John Cooper wrote: On the K2 menu you can vary the key weight from .090-1.40 (90-140%) according to the manual. Did this and played with the paddle but cant tell any difference. What am I listening for? WT5Y __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight
Paul, I suggest you compare your keying waveshape to that shown in the K2 Keying Waveshape Mod instructions. If yours is considerably different, then you have a hardware problem. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/20/2011 5:17 AM, Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) wrote: I have raised the problem of keying weight on the K2 several times earlier - but I never got an answer. So I'll try again. The dot weight ratio on my K2 is unable to reach 50% on my K2. Even with weight set to 90% (0,90) the weight is too heavy. Fortunately a somewhat higher weight sounds better than a somewhat low weight, so maybe thats the reason why there is not much discussion about K2 internal keyer. But for higher speeds a correct weight is important. For my taste the keyer is not acceptable and I soon gave up using it entirely. Is this a specific problem for my K2 or is it a generic issue? What is the actual measured weight range in Elecraft labs? I found the K3 keyer much better ;-) 73, Paul OZ4UN -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] På vegne af Don Wilhelm Sendt: 11. april 2011 03:37 Til: John Cooper Cc: elecraft Emne: Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight John, What keying speed were you using? Key weighting changes the ratio between a dot and an intervening space. It is not likely that you will notice a difference at speeds below 25 or 30 WPM. Below those speeds, I suggest leaving the ratio at 1.00. If you are doing higher speeds, you might want to increase the weighting a bit if your keying sounds light - I know this is a perception issue, so there are no real answers to what is right. A lot of the answer depends on the particular operator's experience and how he likes to listen to CW at higher speeds. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/10/2011 8:56 PM, John Cooper wrote: On the K2 menu you can vary the key weight from .090-1.40 (90-140%) according to the manual. Did this and played with the paddle but cant tell any difference. What am I listening for? WT5Y __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight
Hi Don Where do I find the K2 Keying Waveshape Mod instructions? Been looking at Official (and unofficial)modifications for the K2 and also your fine web page, but I did'nt find anything about the internal keyer. Can you send me a link? 73, Paul OZ4UN -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Don Wilhelm [mailto:w3...@embarqmail.com] Sendt: 20. april 2011 14:12 Til: Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) Cc: elecraft Emne: Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight Paul, I suggest you compare your keying waveshape to that shown in the K2 Keying Waveshape Mod instructions. If yours is considerably different, then you have a hardware problem. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/20/2011 5:17 AM, Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) wrote: I have raised the problem of keying weight on the K2 several times earlier - but I never got an answer. So I'll try again. The dot weight ratio on my K2 is unable to reach 50% on my K2. Even with weight set to 90% (0,90) the weight is too heavy. Fortunately a somewhat higher weight sounds better than a somewhat low weight, so maybe thats the reason why there is not much discussion about K2 internal keyer. But for higher speeds a correct weight is important. For my taste the keyer is not acceptable and I soon gave up using it entirely. Is this a specific problem for my K2 or is it a generic issue? What is the actual measured weight range in Elecraft labs? I found the K3 keyer much better ;-) 73, Paul OZ4UN -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] På vegne af Don Wilhelm Sendt: 11. april 2011 03:37 Til: John Cooper Cc: elecraft Emne: Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight John, What keying speed were you using? Key weighting changes the ratio between a dot and an intervening space. It is not likely that you will notice a difference at speeds below 25 or 30 WPM. Below those speeds, I suggest leaving the ratio at 1.00. If you are doing higher speeds, you might want to increase the weighting a bit if your keying sounds light - I know this is a perception issue, so there are no real answers to what is right. A lot of the answer depends on the particular operator's experience and how he likes to listen to CW at higher speeds. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/10/2011 8:56 PM, John Cooper wrote: On the K2 menu you can vary the key weight from .090-1.40 (90-140%) according to the manual. Did this and played with the paddle but cant tell any difference. What am I listening for? WT5Y __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight
Just go to the Elecraft website www.elecraft.com and on the left column, click on Manuals and Downloads, Then select K2 - on the list that opens, find K2 Keying B/W Mod and you will have it. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/20/2011 11:33 AM, Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) wrote: Hi Don Where do I find the K2 Keying Waveshape Mod instructions? Been looking at Official (and unofficial)modifications for the K2 and also your fine web page, but I did'nt find anything about the internal keyer. Can you send me a link? 73, Paul OZ4UN -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Don Wilhelm [mailto:w3...@embarqmail.com] Sendt: 20. april 2011 14:12 Til: Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) Cc: elecraft Emne: Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight Paul, I suggest you compare your keying waveshape to that shown in the K2 Keying Waveshape Mod instructions. If yours is considerably different, then you have a hardware problem. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/20/2011 5:17 AM, Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) wrote: I have raised the problem of keying weight on the K2 several times earlier - but I never got an answer. So I'll try again. The dot weight ratio on my K2 is unable to reach 50% on my K2. Even with weight set to 90% (0,90) the weight is too heavy. Fortunately a somewhat higher weight sounds better than a somewhat low weight, so maybe thats the reason why there is not much discussion about K2 internal keyer. But for higher speeds a correct weight is important. For my taste the keyer is not acceptable and I soon gave up using it entirely. Is this a specific problem for my K2 or is it a generic issue? What is the actual measured weight range in Elecraft labs? I found the K3 keyer much better ;-) 73, Paul OZ4UN -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] På vegne af Don Wilhelm Sendt: 11. april 2011 03:37 Til: John Cooper Cc: elecraft Emne: Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight John, What keying speed were you using? Key weighting changes the ratio between a dot and an intervening space. It is not likely that you will notice a difference at speeds below 25 or 30 WPM. Below those speeds, I suggest leaving the ratio at 1.00. If you are doing higher speeds, you might want to increase the weighting a bit if your keying sounds light - I know this is a perception issue, so there are no real answers to what is right. A lot of the answer depends on the particular operator's experience and how he likes to listen to CW at higher speeds. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/10/2011 8:56 PM, John Cooper wrote: On the K2 menu you can vary the key weight from .090-1.40 (90-140%) according to the manual. Did this and played with the paddle but cant tell any difference. What am I listening for? WT5Y __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight
Thanks Don and others for referring me to the CW bandwidth mod (wave shape mod). It shows the fine waveform of the K2. Mine is ser. 4662 and has that mod. I am by no means complaining about the waveshape - it is superb. I am only complaining a little bit about the inability to reach 50% weight. It is quite close and maybe acceptable to most operators and for me it is only a problem at QRQ. I have asked many times, but nobody has yet answered my simple question of what the minimum weight should be (when set to 0,9). 73, Paul OZ4UN -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Don Wilhelm [mailto:w3...@embarqmail.com] Sendt: 20. april 2011 18:08 Til: Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) Cc: d...@w3fpr.com; elecraft Emne: Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight Just go to the Elecraft website www.elecraft.com and on the left column, click on Manuals and Downloads, Then select K2 - on the list that opens, find K2 Keying B/W Mod and you will have it. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/20/2011 11:33 AM, Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) wrote: Hi Don Where do I find the K2 Keying Waveshape Mod instructions? Been looking at Official (and unofficial)modifications for the K2 and also your fine web page, but I did'nt find anything about the internal keyer. Can you send me a link? 73, Paul OZ4UN -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Don Wilhelm [mailto:w3...@embarqmail.com] Sendt: 20. april 2011 14:12 Til: Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) Cc: elecraft Emne: Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight Paul, I suggest you compare your keying waveshape to that shown in the K2 Keying Waveshape Mod instructions. If yours is considerably different, then you have a hardware problem. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/20/2011 5:17 AM, Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) wrote: I have raised the problem of keying weight on the K2 several times earlier - but I never got an answer. So I'll try again. The dot weight ratio on my K2 is unable to reach 50% on my K2. Even with weight set to 90% (0,90) the weight is too heavy. Fortunately a somewhat higher weight sounds better than a somewhat low weight, so maybe thats the reason why there is not much discussion about K2 internal keyer. But for higher speeds a correct weight is important. For my taste the keyer is not acceptable and I soon gave up using it entirely. Is this a specific problem for my K2 or is it a generic issue? What is the actual measured weight range in Elecraft labs? I found the K3 keyer much better ;-) 73, Paul OZ4UN -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] På vegne af Don Wilhelm Sendt: 11. april 2011 03:37 Til: John Cooper Cc: elecraft Emne: Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight John, What keying speed were you using? Key weighting changes the ratio between a dot and an intervening space. It is not likely that you will notice a difference at speeds below 25 or 30 WPM. Below those speeds, I suggest leaving the ratio at 1.00. If you are doing higher speeds, you might want to increase the weighting a bit if your keying sounds light - I know this is a perception issue, so there are no real answers to what is right. A lot of the answer depends on the particular operator's experience and how he likes to listen to CW at higher speeds. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/10/2011 8:56 PM, John Cooper wrote: On the K2 menu you can vary the key weight from .090-1.40 (90-140%) according to the manual. Did this and played with the paddle but cant tell any difference. What am I listening for? WT5Y __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] key dot weight
On the K2 menu you can vary the key weight from .090-1.40 (90-140%) according to the manual. Did this and played with the paddle but cant tell any difference. What am I listening for? WT5Y __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] key dot weight
John, What keying speed were you using? Key weighting changes the ratio between a dot and an intervening space. It is not likely that you will notice a difference at speeds below 25 or 30 WPM. Below those speeds, I suggest leaving the ratio at 1.00. If you are doing higher speeds, you might want to increase the weighting a bit if your keying sounds light - I know this is a perception issue, so there are no real answers to what is right. A lot of the answer depends on the particular operator's experience and how he likes to listen to CW at higher speeds. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/10/2011 8:56 PM, John Cooper wrote: On the K2 menu you can vary the key weight from .090-1.40 (90-140%) according to the manual. Did this and played with the paddle but cant tell any difference. What am I listening for? WT5Y __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
