RE: [Elecraft] soldering station info, from a guy who
As you'd expect, for professional use, the Pace and the Metcal are the most costly - and the best at what they do. I'm curious what makes one unit better than another other than the obvious differences between a temperature-controlled iron and a $10 radio shack unit. Are you thinking of technical issues like recovery time and supporting multiple irons/accessories or is it subjective issues like size, weight, feel, cord length, etc? I've got a Hakko 936 that does a fine job, and I'm having a hard time imagining what else it could do that would make it better. I thought I'd chime in here about Metcal - I bought a Metcal SP200 on advice from a friend some years ago (late 90s); the SP200 was at the time probably their cheapest and most basic model, and I hadn't heard of hakko, etc. It was not terribly expensive, but at the high end of pricing for some other types I looked at (I don't recall how much.) Anyway, the Metcal (at least this one) has no controls at all - just on/off - temperature is controlled by interaction of the power supply and composition of materials in the body of the tip, but as I began using it, I discovered it could handle very tiny soldering without overheating (or underheating) the joint then quickly handle a very large, thermally massive object (such as tinning or soldering a large metal object such as a PL259), and then be able to go back to some small solder joint, all without waiting but a few seconds at most between applications or from a cold start (I can hear the power supply unit hum slightly when it's heating the solder tip, and the hum would persist a bit more while soldering a large object.) From what I've read recently about soldering with the new types of non-lead solder involved (I've not tried), I'm not sure if it would be satisfactory (perhaps it's got an upgrade - I haven't checked) as the temperature is set by the tip itself and seemed calibrated to garden-variety solder of the time. Anyway, just posting this to help satisfy curiosity about Metcal... 73 Dave WB0GAZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] soldering station info
I'll second all of that!! Good rundown on slobbering irons. I deal in electronic surplus and see broken temp-adjustable irons all the time, at the same time there are tons of Magnetrol type Wellers out there, some as old as I am, still working fine. (Got the tuner, key, and first part of my KX1 done with my trusty Weller myself last night.) 73 de Alex NS6Y On Apr 15, 2006, at 6:55 AM, G. Beat wrote: Some comments, each station design has its strengths and weaknesses The Haako 936 uses ceramic heaters - some users swear by them other swear at them. The true Haako replacement heaters are NOT cheap - and their are already Chinese copies of poorer quality (users beware of future cheap replacements. IF you drop the iron - the ceramic can (and does crack) - causing failures. The Weller EC series (EC1002, EC2002) was discontinued by Weller in 2002. The Weller WES51 (WES50 earlier) was introduced around 1999 as a direct competitor for the Haako 936. The Pace ST-25 is also of this same class of station The price points (~ $90 ) are virtually identical for the Haako 936 and WES51 (Fry's Electronics still has cheapest price for a walk-in store purchase in US) - both are temperature controlled (knob up front) - as well as the Pace. The WES51 offers a magnetic wand to set or lock the temperature. The replacement iron for the WES51 is $30 .. significantly less than the Haako or its heater. The more expensive units (Hakko, OKI, Weller, Pace etc.) feature temperature set-backs The Weller TCP series is still a tremendous bargain (and still made after 40 years of production and 50 years after first patent filing. Either used or new - any competent Elecraft builder can repair it ! The surface mounted control board (knob and all) stations -- require expensive control boards, thermostats or heater assemblies - and MUST be properly calibrated for temperature - or the knob has NO meaning !! w9gb Sometime simplicity Like you, I have a Hakko 936. The reason I like it over the Weller in a $100 soldering station is for the Hakko's front-panel temperature control instead of changing tips to change temperatures. Of course Weller offers front-panel temperature change too, but at substantially more money than the Hakko. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] soldering station info, from a guy who does it all day: slightly OT
I am fortunate enough to have, either at work or at home, at least one each of the several top-grade soldering stations Pace, Metcal, Hakko, Edsyn, Weller ... and several versions of each of these manufacturers' product lines as well, in some cases. As you'd expect, for professional use, the Pace and the Metcal are the most costly - and the best at what they do. In general, some of these stations cost far more than a completely loaded K2, putting them out of consideration for someone doing hobby work! And, for hobby work, the reality is that almost any decent, temperature-controlled iron will do nicely. Your K2 (or any Elecraft kit) is REALLY engineered to be straightforward to do, and doesn't take much in the way of specialized tools. It *IS* much easier with a good iron, to be certain, and such can be had for $40-$125 new, depending on how fancy you want to get, or a fraction of that cost used. Definition of a 'good iron' is one that isn't a $10 non-temp-controlled pencil, and which also has a tip suitable for use on common DIP parts, and which is used with a suitable way of keeping the tip clean and tinned. To answer the next question ... what do I use myself, since I do this for a living? Well, at home, I have two WTCP- series Wellers, plus a Metcal 500 dual-output unit, with an RM3 iron using 700 degree tips, and Talon/TATC tweezers, and a Hakko 808. At work, my personal bench hols a pair of Weller stations, one WSL2 and a WSL, supporting two irons on the WSL2 and hot tweezers on the WSL, and another Hakko 808. The manufacturing shop uses top-line Pace gear, mostly, and some trusty old Edsyns too, which don't get the applause they deserve. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] soldering station info, from a guy who does it all day: slightly OT
Craig, NZ0R asked: I'm curious what makes one unit better than another other than the obvious differences between a temperature-controlled iron and a $10 radio shack unit. Are you thinking of technical issues like recovery time and supporting multiple irons/accessories or is it subjective issues like size, weight, feel, cord length, etc? I've got a Hakko 936 that does a fine job, and I'm having a hard time imagining what else it could do that would make it better. If you look at the soldering stations offered by these manufacturers, there is little difference in price or features compared to the Hakko. The Pace and Edsyn soldering stations are in the $130 range. The OKI (was Metcal) soldering stations like the Wellers with front-panel temperature controls get up near $200. Of course, they all have special purpose tools that cost much, much more, but which do different things such as provide far higher heats one would ever use on a PCB (up to 1000F), desoldering tools, etc. Like you, I have a Hakko 936. The reason I like it over the Weller in a $100 soldering station is for the Hakko's front-panel temperature control instead of changing tips to change temperatures. Of course Weller offers front-panel temperature change too, but at substantially more money than the Hakko. In the sort of work I do servicing and building I find that it's important to crank up the temperature for soldering large pads or those connected to a ground plane, or for those fairly rare occasions that I use desoldering braid instead of my pump. Maybe I'm a bit lazy, but if I'm faced with changing a soldering tip to change temperature, it's too easy for me to try to use the cooler tip for those things and cook the pads longer than I should. The danger of debonding a trace or pad has to do with how long it is kept hot as well as with how hot it gets. Indeed, keeping the time the pad is hot at a minimum may be more important the temperature used. With the Hakko, I crank up the knob to 800F and by the time I've grabbed the iron and got it to the work, the tip is up to the requested temperature. Set it back to 700F for routine work and it's ready to solder small pads and joints without excess heating of the PCB or parts. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] soldering station info, from a guy who does it all day: slightly OT
On Apr 14, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: The Pace and Edsyn soldering stations are in the $130 range. The OKI (was Metcal) soldering stations like the Wellers with front-panel temperature controls get up near $200. Of course, they all have special purpose tools that cost much, much more, but which do different things such as provide far higher heats one would ever use on a PCB (up to 1000F), desoldering tools, etc. Like you, I have a Hakko 936. The reason I like it over the Weller in a $100 soldering station is for the Hakko's front-panel temperature control instead of changing tips to change temperatures. Of course Weller offers front-panel temperature change too, but at substantially more money than the Hakko. The premium for a Weller soldering station isn't quite that much if you shop around a bit. There are several variable-temperature Weller models available. The one which is most like the Hakko 936 is the WES-51. I bought the predecessor WES-50 for about $90 a few years back and a quick Google search found the WES-51 for $99 at Action. I also have a Xytronic which is quite similar and was in the $60 range when I bought mine about ten years ago. 73, Bob, N7XY ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] soldering station info, from a guy who does it all day: slightly OT
There are cheapie soldering irons made by almost everyone, including Weller. The minimum Weller model is the WTCPT, the minimum Hakko is whatever model is in that same price range. 73 de Alex NS6Y On Apr 14, 2006, at 1:16 PM, Bob Nielsen wrote: On Apr 14, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: The Pace and Edsyn soldering stations are in the $130 range. The OKI (was Metcal) soldering stations like the Wellers with front-panel temperature controls get up near $200. Of course, they all have special purpose tools that cost much, much more, but which do different things such as provide far higher heats one would ever use on a PCB (up to 1000F), desoldering tools, etc. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
