Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta firmware rev. 2.57 -- SSB PWR control, SPLIT in diversity mode, etc.
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 6:18 PM, wayne burdick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: K3 beta-test firmware revision 2.57 (with DSP rev 1.94) is now available. * First tap of AB copies mode, if required (avoids accidental cross-mode SPLIT) Unfortunately, B-A wasn't fixed - it doesn't copy mode when it is invoked, and since it's available only as a programmable function, there is no possibility of a second tap to transfer mode. Bob NW8L ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta firmware rev. 2.57
Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote: Traditional ALC operates by overdriving the final amplifier. It senses grid current Which is an indication of overdrive and uses that to turn down the drive. Previous generations of solid state radios turned to sensing output power for the level reference. However, those after the fact ALC circuits have two serious issues ... first overdrive must have already occurred to generate an ALC signal and overshoot is certain but there is also no protection against overdrive and distortion in the low level intermediate stages. The K3 generates its ALC in the early stages (the DSP) using a feed forward technique that delays the RF to allow the control signal proper effect. By controlling the level early in the transmission chain, the K3 ALC prevents overshoot, protects against distortion due to RF compression or clipping after the masking filter or channel filter and eliminates distortion due to ALC hunting (the effects of ALC constantly overcorrecting then under correcting). Instead of using a short ALC time-constant (which causes the hunting distortion in conventional designs), the K3's power level control can almost have a fixed gain with only a slow time constant for fine adjustment. However, since the power control really sets the average power (e.g. CW), there must be some compensation for differences in the peak to average power ratios of various voices, the level of compression/clipping in use and different modulation types (particularly some data modes with very high peak to average ratios) so that operations with minimal clipping or modes with high peak to average power ratios do not overdrive the driver and PA on peaks even though the average power is well below the level that has been set. Thank you for the excellent explanation, Joe. If that's the case, how does someone who does not have a peak reading wattmeter set up the gain so that the PEP output is equal to the amount of power set on the power control? I can feed a sine wave in and adjust the gain so that the RMS output is correct. But if I understand you correctly, the actual peak output will be dependent on the peak to mean ratio of the signal being fed in, so the only way to set the peak power on any mode that modulates the amplitude of the carrier is to calibrate TXG VCE using a scope or a meter that can tell you accurately what the peak power is? In fact, if the power control is really setting the average power, then if I turn off the compressor because I'm talking to someone who is already getting me S9, won't the effect of the slow time constant ALC then be to increase the gain to bring the average power level (and consequently the peak power level) up, because the peak to mean ratio with compressor off will be greater than when it is on? - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Re%3A-K3-Beta-firmware-rev.-2.57-tp1374954p1378556.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta firmware rev. 2.57
Wayne, the AM power level in this version only seems to produce a carrier of 10 Watts when the requested power is 100W. While I don't agree with the idea of calling the power anything other than the carrier level, i.e. I would expect the power control to only go to about 30 Watts on AM, 10 Watts is only 1/3rd of the carrier power a 100 W nominal transceiver should produce. Back to the drawing board? 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 == * MORE ACCURATE AM-MODE POWER LEVEL. Also slightly higher modulation percentage. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta firmware rev. 2.57
Len I checked the calibration at 5 and 50 Watts, the carrier power is close to the power control setting at other power settings too. Earlier firmware gives higher power, although still short of the expected 25 - 40 Watt carrier. I have gone back to f/w version 2.46, although that has useless AM TX audio as there is no compression. I was checking on 80m into a 50 Ohm load. I'm not too worried about AM as I rarely use it, but it should be implemented better than it is. 73 Dave, G4AON - Lennart Michaëlsson wrote: GM all, not that I am one of those AM guys but just checked my K3 which produces 45W on 160 and 40W on 80. Maybe some set up trouble, Dave? 73 Len SM7BIC Wayne, the AM power level in this version only seems to produce a carrier of 10 Watts when the requested power is 100W. While I don't agree with the idea of calling the power anything other than the carrier level, i.e. I would expect the power control to only go to about 30 Watts on AM, 10 Watts is only 1/3rd of the carrier power a 100 W nominal transceiver should produce. Back to the drawing board? 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 == * MORE ACCURATE AM-MODE POWER LEVEL. Also slightly higher modulation percentage. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta firmware rev. 2.57
We measured very close to 25 W here, but I'll look into it. tnx Wayne On Oct 25, 2008, at 12:51 AM, Dave G4AON wrote: Wayne, the AM power level in this version only seems to produce a carrier of 10 Watts when the requested power is 100W. While I don't agree with the idea of calling the power anything other than the carrier level, i.e. I would expect the power control to only go to about 30 Watts on AM, 10 Watts is only 1/3rd of the carrier power a 100 W nominal transceiver should produce. Back to the drawing board? 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 == * MORE ACCURATE AM-MODE POWER LEVEL. Also slightly higher modulation percentage. --- http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 Beta firmware rev. 2.57
It measures very close here as well. Even though the power calibrations had been done previously (this was the factory built s/n 622), I did need to do the wattmeter and power level calibrations again at both 5 and 50 watts before the AM carrier power was within the 22-25 watt range across the spectrum. Without the recalibration I saw 30 watts on 160, 25 on 20 and 45 on 10 meters. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wayne burdick Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:40 AM To: Dave G4AON Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta firmware rev. 2.57 We measured very close to 25 W here, but I'll look into it. tnx Wayne On Oct 25, 2008, at 12:51 AM, Dave G4AON wrote: Wayne, the AM power level in this version only seems to produce a carrier of 10 Watts when the requested power is 100W. While I don't agree with the idea of calling the power anything other than the carrier level, i.e. I would expect the power control to only go to about 30 Watts on AM, 10 Watts is only 1/3rd of the carrier power a 100 W nominal transceiver should produce. Back to the drawing board? 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 == * MORE ACCURATE AM-MODE POWER LEVEL. Also slightly higher modulation percentage. --- http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta firmware rev. 2.57 -- SSB PWR control, SPLIT in diversity mode, etc.
I can't find 2.57 on the beta site (just 2.46). Was it removed, or am I having a browser refresh problem? - 73, John, W0JFR wayne burdick wrote: K3 beta-test firmware revision 2.57 (with DSP rev 1.94) is now available. This is a major release. Some recent changes have had only limited testing, but we wanted to get it out in time for this weekend's contest. If you have any difficulty, you can easily revert back to the last production version (2.46). Be sure to use the latest revision of K3 Utility to do the downloads. Please send any problem reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For instructions on how to load beta firmware, please see: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_software.htm Highlights: * SSB power control improved (no jumps in power while rotating the PWR control during transmit; no upward spike when crossing the 12-W boundary; SSB drive level not affected by tapping A/B, changing modes, or doing an ATU TUNE. (NOTE: This doesn't address all issues with voice peaks; we have further work to do on ALC. Also, a band change or memory recall still reinitializes the SSB drive level. We're working on that.) * SPLIT operation is now possible in diversity mode (requires sub receiver). There are several user-interface changes related to this; please review the release notes below carefully. Most noticeably, in diversity mode VFO A still controls both receivers but the VFO B frequency remains fully independent. * First tap of AB copies mode, if required (avoids accidental cross-mode SPLIT) * All known issues with CW/DATA message buffers fixed, including lost characters during chaining * Major improvements to CW-to-PSK31 operation -- faster transmit, and no erroneous characters sent when using the keyer paddle * Many new or improved remote-control commands for developers Other details appear below. 73, Wayne N6KR * * * MCU 2.57, 10-24-2008 Major changes and new features: * SSB POWER CONTROL IMPROVEMENTS: (1) No jumps in power while rotating PWR control during transmit. (2) No upward spike when crossing QRP/QRO boundary. (3) No loss of SSB TX drive level when tapping A/B, changing modes, or doing an ATU TUNE. (4) These improvements may also lessen the effect of “spiking” external amplifiers, but further work on the ALC routine is planned. Note: The SSB drive does still get reinitialized to match the CW level if you do a TUNE (this is desirable). This also happens if you change bands or recall a memory (that will be fixed in the next release). * FIRST AB TAP COPIES MODE (if VFO A and B modes are different). This should greatly reduce the chance of having VFO B in the wrong mode when the operator later goes into SPLIT. (Those who want to do cross-mode split can still set up VFO B differently using BSET mode, and should avoid AB.) Once the VFO modes are the same, operation of AB is the same as before: A single tap copies only the frequency, while a second tap copies everything. * PSK31 (PSK D MODE) TRANSMIT IMPROVEMENTS: Eliminated erroneous characters during CW-to-PSK31 transmit when using the keyer paddle. Also greatly improved PSK31 transmit speed by removing all extraneous “zeros” from the data stream. * MARS operation now possible on 40 m up to 7550 kHz. VFO Linking, Sub RX, Diversity Mode, and SPLIT: * SPLIT CAN BE USED IN DIVERSITY MODE: During SPLIT, VFO B is only the transmit frequency. VFO A controls both receivers. So you now have a choice when using SPLIT with the sub receiver: diversity receive, or listening to both your RX (main) and TX (sub) frequencies simultaneously. Also see BSET note below. * VFO A-B LINKING: This is now indicated by slowly flashing the VFO B kHz decimal point. * A/B and REV CAN NOW BE USED IN DIVERSITY MODE. In both cases, the VFOs are swapped, allowing you to listen in diversity mode on VFO B’s frequency. * BSET IN DIVERSITY MODE: If you use BSET in diversity mode, you’ll now hear the main RX in the left ear and sub RX in the right. This is useful when using SPLIT with diversity, as it allows you to override diversity mode temporarily and listen to both your RX and TX frequencies. * VFO B NOT LOCKED WHEN LINKED TO VFO A: This means the VFOs can be linked but at different frequencies. A fixed offset can be established using VFO B, and will be maintained as you tune VFO A. * VFOs NOT LINKED IN DIVERSITY MODE: VFO A is used to update both synthesizers (main and sub), but VFO B is now free to be used as a SPLIT TX frequency (see below). In DIVERSITY mode, the VFO A kHz decimal point slowly flashes, as before. Miscellaneous: * MESSAGE PLAY FIXES: There were a few issues with CW and DATA message buffer playback, including occasional truncated characters when chaining in CW mode, and inconsistent behavior when chaining. * MORE ACCURATE AM-MODE POWER LEVEL. Also slightly higher modulation
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta firmware rev. 2.57 -- SSB PWR control, SPLIT in diversity mode, etc.
I'm afraid it's your browser John. I have Firefox set to clear it's buffers, cookies, etc. when it closes and it's there on the Elecraft site now at: ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/beta/ 73 Dave, G4AON I can't find 2.57 on the beta site (just 2.46). Was it removed, or am I having a browser refresh problem? - 73, John, W0JFR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta firmware rev. 2.57
Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote: I don't know ... it seems to work properly here. If you elect to not make it global, it may be necessary to provide separate TXG settings for voice (SSB), AM and AFSK A/DATA A (DTA) ... or at least SSB/Data and AM. Perhaps I'm just being dim, but why is TXG necessary at all? Why can't you just turn the mic gain up until you have plenty of drive, and then use the power control to set the output power using the ALC? That's all I recall having to do on other radios. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Re%3A-K3-Beta-firmware-rev.-2.57-tp1374954p1377026.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta firmware rev. 2.57
Perhaps I'm just being dim, but why is TXG necessary at all? Why can't you just turn the mic gain up until you have plenty of drive, and then use the power control to set the output power using the ALC? Traditional ALC operates by overdriving the final amplifier. It senses grid current Which is an indication of overdrive and uses that to turn down the drive. Previous generations of solid state radios turned to sensing output power for the level reference. However, those after the fact ALC circuits have two serious issues ... first overdrive must have already occurred to generate an ALC signal and overshoot is certain but there is also no protection against overdrive and distortion in the low level intermediate stages. The K3 generates its ALC in the early stages (the DSP) using a feed forward technique that delays the RF to allow the control signal proper effect. By controlling the level early in the transmission chain, the K3 ALC prevents overshoot, protects against distortion due to RF compression or clipping after the masking filter or channel filter and eliminates distortion due to ALC hunting (the effects of ALC constantly overcorrecting then under correcting). Instead of using a short ALC time-constant (which causes the hunting distortion in conventional designs), the K3's power level control can almost have a fixed gain with only a slow time constant for fine adjustment. However, since the power control really sets the average power (e.g. CW), there must be some compensation for differences in the peak to average power ratios of various voices, the level of compression/clipping in use and different modulation types (particularly some data modes with very high peak to average ratios) so that operations with minimal clipping or modes with high peak to average power ratios do not overdrive the driver and PA on peaks even though the average power is well below the level that has been set. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 6:17 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta firmware rev. 2.57 Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote: I don't know ... it seems to work properly here. If you elect to not make it global, it may be necessary to provide separate TXG settings for voice (SSB), AM and AFSK A/DATA A (DTA) ... or at least SSB/Data and AM. Perhaps I'm just being dim, but why is TXG necessary at all? Why can't you just turn the mic gain up until you have plenty of drive, and then use the power control to set the output power using the ALC? That's all I recall having to do on other radios. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Re%3A-K3-Beta-firmware-rev.-2.57-tp137495 4p1377026.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
