Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question

[James Bennett]

Folks - thanks for all the input. I think I may have found one of the culprits 
in the system - oxidation. I put everything back together the way it was to 
begin with so I could switch back and forth between the K3 and KX3 power 
displays. I have a KXPA100 behind the KX3 so the load on the MFJ 4245 should be 
about the same with either one transmitting 100 watts and the other one 
receiving. What I see now is 13.9 volts on receive and 13.0 - 13.1 during 
transmit. Waay better than the drop to 12.0 I saw yesterday! 

I might get ambitious and “upgrade” the cables from #12 to #10 and ensure that 
the APP contacts used are the 30 or 45 amp versions. Will also look into a 
re-design of the Boost Regulator’s position in the power system. RIght now it 
supplies boosted power to the Rig Runner. I think it’ll be an easy matter to 
swap some cabling around and have the output of the Power Gate go to the Rig 
Runner and have the Boost Regulator tie into the Rig Runner, delivering it’s 
output directly to the KX3, K3, and KXPA100. I believe this is one of the 
suggestions made by W3FPR. I’m pretty sure my desk lamp and the PX3 won’t mind 
only having 12.8 v instead of 13.9! :-)

73, Jim

Jim Bennett / W6JHB
Folsom, CA



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,3/9/2017 9:29 PM, George Thornton wrote:

 From what I am learning the K3 needs a strong, stable power supply to be 
reliable.


ANY ham rig needs that. :)  At 100W, the K3 draws about 20A keydown. Do 
Ohm's Law on the wiring between the power supply and the K3. The simple 
answer is short, fat copper, straight from the supply to the radio. AND 
good quality connectors. Those power distribution strips can easily drop 
a volt or so. I run #10-2 to my radios.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question

[Nr4c]

Minimize all cable lengths. No more than necessary.

Verify (actually look at) that SLL APP connectors are FULLY SEATED!  Meaning 
inspect the open end for seeing only one price of metal. Check the Anderson web 
site for a cut away picture of the cross-section of a properly assembled APP. 

I use #10 wire for my K3 cables. 

Use PowerGate to charge battery and  run accessories. Run radio from separate 
cable to PS. 

When power goes out reconnect radio to battery. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 10, 2017, at 12:00 AM, James Bennett  wrote:
> 
> I put my DMM leads on the front terminals of the 4545 and with key down, no 
> change at all: 13.9V, so it appears that MFJ gets a pass on this one.
> 
> To do my testing I had run the 4545 directly to the K3 and not through the 
> Rig Runner. However, to do that I had simply hooked the cable from the 4245 
> that used to go to the Rig Runner into the end of the cable going to the K3, 
> basically taking the Rig Runner, Power Gate, and Boost Regulator out of the 
> picture. This gave me two cables, total of about 10 feet, with three APP 
> connectors.
> 
> Thus the connection went from the 4245 through a five foot cable and some 
> ferrite donuts into another five foot cable to the back of the K3. The 
> voltage dropped to 12.5 on the K3 meter. With some work, I pulled the cable 
> out of the K3 and connected the 4245 cable with the ferrites directly into 
> the K3. With this combination (only ONE cable and Power Poles at the K3 end) 
> the voltage dropped from 13.9 to 13.1. This means that a second five foot 
> length of cable and two APP’s caused a loss of .6 volts.
> 
> So, what does all this mean? Since I am not using wimpy, skinny wire I have 
> to conclude that perhaps the APP’s might be the cause of some of this voltage 
> drop. With the original configuration I had using the AGM battery, Power 
> Gate, Boost Regulator, and Rig Runner, there are a bunch of APP’s in the 
> circuit, in addition to several feet of wire. I “could” simply connect the 
> 4245 directly to the K3 and settle for a drop of .8 volts (13.9 to 13.1), but 
> that kinda defeats the purpose of having a solar / battery backup system and 
> a power distribution system. I thought this issue would be solved by 
> replacing the MFJ PS with something else, but it is looking a LOT more 
> complex at this point. Crap - what is one supposed to do? 
> 
> Jim / W6JHB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 5:23 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>> 
>> Jim,
>> 
>> Get your DMM out and make the same measurement at the power supply terminals.
>> If you see a substantial voltage sag during transmit there, you can blame 
>> the power supply.  But if the voltage stays close to constant, the problem 
>> is voltage drop in the power cabling.
>> 
>> The RigRunner will contribute some drop due to the extra contact points and 
>> even #12 or #10 wire has some resistance.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question

[Bill Frantz]

I connect my voltage boost, like yours a N8XJK, between the 
power supply mess and the K3. (I run it in RF Enabled mode.) 
That results in my K3 getting the voltage it needs, and the 
voltage loss in all the other connections getting made up.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/9/17 at 9:00 PM, w6...@me.com (James Bennett) wrote:


Crap - what is one supposed to do?

---
Bill Frantz|Security, like correctness, is| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  |not an add-on feature. - Attr-| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |ibuted to Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question

[George Thornton]

I am using an Astron 35 amp ps.

I did not use a dmm, just the meter on the k3.  I only got a .2 drop when I 
connected direct with a five foot thick gauge wire.  But using the same pwrgate 
setup as yours it dropped a full volt or more on transmit.

A friend had problems running in a mobile setting with battery backup he went 
to a voltage boost regulator and it all works.

From what I am learning the K3 needs a strong, stable power supply to be 
reliable.





From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James 
Bennett
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 9:01 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question

I put my DMM leads on the front terminals of the 4545 and with key down, no 
change at all: 13.9V, so it appears that MFJ gets a pass on this one.

To do my testing I had run the 4545 directly to the K3 and not through the Rig 
Runner. However, to do that I had simply hooked the cable from the 4245 that 
used to go to the Rig Runner into the end of the cable going to the K3, 
basically taking the Rig Runner, Power Gate, and Boost Regulator out of the 
picture. This gave me two cables, total of about 10 feet, with three APP 
connectors.

Thus the connection went from the 4245 through a five foot cable and some 
ferrite donuts into another five foot cable to the back of the K3. The voltage 
dropped to 12.5 on the K3 meter. With some work, I pulled the cable out of the 
K3 and connected the 4245 cable with the ferrites directly into the K3. With 
this combination (only ONE cable and Power Poles at the K3 end) the voltage 
dropped from 13.9 to 13.1. This means that a second five foot length of cable 
and two APP’s caused a loss of .6 volts.

So, what does all this mean? Since I am not using wimpy, skinny wire I have to 
conclude that perhaps the APP’s might be the cause of some of this voltage 
drop. With the original configuration I had using the AGM battery, Power Gate, 
Boost Regulator, and Rig Runner, there are a bunch of APP’s in the circuit, in 
addition to several feet of wire. I “could” simply connect the 4245 directly to 
the K3 and settle for a drop of .8 volts (13.9 to 13.1), but that kinda defeats 
the purpose of having a solar / battery backup system and a power distribution 
system. I thought this issue would be solved by replacing the MFJ PS with 
something else, but it is looking a LOT more complex at this point. Crap - what 
is one supposed to do?

Jim / W6JHB






> On Mar 9, 2017, at 5:23 PM, Don Wilhelm 
> <donw...@embarqmail.com><mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com%3e> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> Get your DMM out and make the same measurement at the power supply terminals.
> If you see a substantial voltage sag during transmit there, you can blame the 
> power supply. But if the voltage stays close to constant, the problem is 
> voltage drop in the power cabling.
>
> The RigRunner will contribute some drop due to the extra contact points and 
> even #12 or #10 wire has some resistance.
>
> If the power supply is good, run a power cable direct from the power supply 
> to the K3 and run another power cable to the rigrunner. Run the accessories 
> in the shack from the rigrunner.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/9/2017 8:09 PM, James Bennett wrote:
>> Hi All -
>>
>> Haven’t had any issues with the above configuration. Until today, when I 
>> happened to punch the K3 DISP button, changing it from reading my VFO B 
>> frequency to the other various bits of information. One of them was the rig 
>> voltage. Sitting there on 17 meters in CW mode receive it was showing a nice 
>> 13.8V. Cool. I hit the key and - wait a minute…… it dropped way down to 
>> 12.4v. Huh - not so cool. My first thought was that the Boost Regulator was 
>> not doing it’s job. But I decided to start trouble shooring at ground zero - 
>> the MFJ 4245. I disconnected it from the Power Gate and ran it directly to 
>> the K3. Key up = 13.8V. Key down = 12.0V. Yikes! I think (IMHO) calling this 
>> poor regulation (15%) would be a gross understatement.
>>

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question

[James Bennett]

I put my DMM leads on the front terminals of the 4545 and with key down, no 
change at all: 13.9V, so it appears that MFJ gets a pass on this one.

To do my testing I had run the 4545 directly to the K3 and not through the Rig 
Runner. However, to do that I had simply hooked the cable from the 4245 that 
used to go to the Rig Runner into the end of the cable going to the K3, 
basically taking the Rig Runner, Power Gate, and Boost Regulator out of the 
picture. This gave me two cables, total of about 10 feet, with three APP 
connectors.

Thus the connection went from the 4245 through a five foot cable and some 
ferrite donuts into another five foot cable to the back of the K3. The voltage 
dropped to 12.5 on the K3 meter. With some work, I pulled the cable out of the 
K3 and connected the 4245 cable with the ferrites directly into the K3. With 
this combination (only ONE cable and Power Poles at the K3 end) the voltage 
dropped from 13.9 to 13.1. This means that a second five foot length of cable 
and two APP’s caused a loss of .6 volts.

So, what does all this mean? Since I am not using wimpy, skinny wire I have to 
conclude that perhaps the APP’s might be the cause of some of this voltage 
drop. With the original configuration I had using the AGM battery, Power Gate, 
Boost Regulator, and Rig Runner, there are a bunch of APP’s in the circuit, in 
addition to several feet of wire. I “could” simply connect the 4245 directly to 
the K3 and settle for a drop of .8 volts (13.9 to 13.1), but that kinda defeats 
the purpose of having a solar / battery backup system and a power distribution 
system. I thought this issue would be solved by replacing the MFJ PS with 
something else, but it is looking a LOT more complex at this point. Crap - what 
is one supposed to do? 

Jim / W6JHB






> On Mar 9, 2017, at 5:23 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Jim,
> 
> Get your DMM out and make the same measurement at the power supply terminals.
> If you see a substantial voltage sag during transmit there, you can blame the 
> power supply.  But if the voltage stays close to constant, the problem is 
> voltage drop in the power cabling.
> 
> The RigRunner will contribute some drop due to the extra contact points and 
> even #12 or #10 wire has some resistance.
> 
> If the power supply is good, run a power cable direct from the power supply 
> to the K3 and run another power cable to the rigrunner.  Run the accessories 
> in the shack from the rigrunner.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 3/9/2017 8:09 PM, James Bennett wrote:
>> Hi All -
>> 
>> Haven’t had any issues with the above configuration. Until today, when I 
>> happened to punch the K3 DISP button, changing it from reading my VFO B 
>> frequency to the other various bits of information. One of them was the rig 
>> voltage. Sitting there on 17 meters in CW mode receive it was showing a nice 
>> 13.8V. Cool. I hit the key and - wait a minute…… it dropped way down to 
>> 12.4v. Huh - not so cool. My first thought was that the Boost Regulator was 
>> not doing it’s job. But I decided to start trouble shooring at ground zero - 
>> the MFJ 4245. I disconnected it from the Power Gate and ran it directly to 
>> the K3. Key up = 13.8V. Key down = 12.0V. Yikes! I think (IMHO) calling this 
>> poor regulation (15%) would be a gross understatement.
>> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question

[Bill Johnson]

Don, Excellent advice!  While I have a little bit of voltage drop, will run a 
parallel set of leads directly to my battery charged by my PowerGate PG40 s 
directly rather than through the rigrunner.  Connection resistance was removed  
 years ago but your suggestion cuts out two connectors.  I like that a lot.  
Why didn't I think of that 

73,
Bill
K9YEQ


 Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don 
Wilhelm
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 7:24 PM
To: James Bennett <w6...@me.com>; Elecraft Reflector Reflector 
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question

Jim,

Get your DMM out and make the same measurement at the power supply terminals.
If you see a substantial voltage sag during transmit there, you can blame the 
power supply.  But if the voltage stays close to constant, the problem is 
voltage drop in the power cabling.

The RigRunner will contribute some drop due to the extra contact points and 
even #12 or #10 wire has some resistance.

If the power supply is good, run a power cable direct from the power supply to 
the K3 and run another power cable to the rigrunner.  Run the accessories in 
the shack from the rigrunner.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2017 8:09 PM, James Bennett wrote:
> Hi All -
>
> Haven’t had any issues with the above configuration. Until today, when I 
> happened to punch the K3 DISP button, changing it from reading my VFO B 
> frequency to the other various bits of information. One of them was the rig 
> voltage. Sitting there on 17 meters in CW mode receive it was showing a nice 
> 13.8V. Cool. I hit the key and - wait a minute…… it dropped way down to 
> 12.4v. Huh - not so cool. My first thought was that the Boost Regulator was 
> not doing it’s job. But I decided to start trouble shooring at ground zero - 
> the MFJ 4245. I disconnected it from the Power Gate and ran it directly to 
> the K3. Key up = 13.8V. Key down = 12.0V. Yikes! I think (IMHO) calling this 
> poor regulation (15%) would be a gross understatement.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

I run an Astron 50 amp linear supply and a 4' cord between it and the K2
I see .6 of a volt drop on keydown at 100 watts






  From: James Bennett 
 To: Elecraft Reflector Reflector  
 Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 8:09 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question
   
Hi All -

I’ve been powering my station for anywhere from 7 - 9 years (can’t recall 
exactly how long!) with an MFJ4245MV switching power supply. I use it in 
conjunction with a 72 watt GE solar panel, 110 Ah AGM battery, ProStar charge 
controller, N8XJK Boost Regulator, and a KI0BK Low Loss PowerGate. All cables 
have been fitted with multiple mix 31 ferrite dounts with multiple wraps - I’ve 
got pretty much NO RF hash on any of the HF bands on the K3 or my KX3. All the 
above power equipment feeds into a Rig Runner 4008. Anderson PowerPole 
connectors connect to as short as possible #12 cable to several devices: K3, 
P3, KX3, PX3, KXPA100, and a home brew W6PQL 2 meter all mode amp.

Haven’t had any issues with the above configuration. Until today, when I 
happened to punch the K3 DISP button, changing it from reading my VFO B 
frequency to the other various bits of information. One of them was the rig 
voltage. Sitting there on 17 meters in CW mode receive it was showing a nice 
13.8V. Cool. I hit the key and - wait a minute…… it dropped way down to 12.4v. 
Huh - not so cool. My first thought was that the Boost Regulator was not doing 
it’s job. But I decided to start trouble shooring at ground zero - the MFJ 
4245. I disconnected it from the Power Gate and ran it directly to the K3. Key 
up = 13.8V. Key down = 12.0V. Yikes! I think (IMHO) calling this poor 
regulation (15%) would be a gross understatement. 

Am I wrong for expecting a desk power supply to do better than this? I had 
purchased this 4245 years ago because the price was right AND that it can run 
on 117 or 220 volts. At one time I had been contemplating a move to the 
Philippines and a 220v supply would be needed. By the way, nothing else running 
here in the shack other than a computer which was in sleep mode anyway, so line 
voltage sag likely is not the issue.

So, if this this a common problem with the MFJ stuff, what other 25+ amp 
supplies are folks using with their K3’s that have better regulation than 15%?

Jim / W6JHB







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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question

[Don Wilhelm]

Jim,

Get your DMM out and make the same measurement at the power supply 
terminals.
If you see a substantial voltage sag during transmit there, you can 
blame the power supply.  But if the voltage stays close to constant, the 
problem is voltage drop in the power cabling.


The RigRunner will contribute some drop due to the extra contact points 
and even #12 or #10 wire has some resistance.


If the power supply is good, run a power cable direct from the power 
supply to the K3 and run another power cable to the rigrunner.  Run the 
accessories in the shack from the rigrunner.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2017 8:09 PM, James Bennett wrote:

Hi All -

Haven’t had any issues with the above configuration. Until today, when I 
happened to punch the K3 DISP button, changing it from reading my VFO B 
frequency to the other various bits of information. One of them was the rig 
voltage. Sitting there on 17 meters in CW mode receive it was showing a nice 
13.8V. Cool. I hit the key and - wait a minute…… it dropped way down to 12.4v. 
Huh - not so cool. My first thought was that the Boost Regulator was not doing 
it’s job. But I decided to start trouble shooring at ground zero - the MFJ 
4245. I disconnected it from the Power Gate and ran it directly to the K3. Key 
up = 13.8V. Key down = 12.0V. Yikes! I think (IMHO) calling this poor 
regulation (15%) would be a gross understatement.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Supply Question

[David F. Reed]

  In response to many questions about what I chose, the answer is I 
bought two different supplies, with different intended uses.

One was the Gamma Research unit, nice and small, but low capacity (okay 
on SSB and CW, too low for digital modes unless you run 10 watts or so 
due to its power duty cycle limitations.  It does fit easily in the 
carry case side pocket of the case Rose Kopp makes.  It is fairly quiet 
RF wise, but I have heard stories of failures from some folks.

The other is the PowerWerks switching unit,  It has much more capacity, 
but is larger; it barely squeezes into the side pocket and once in, is a 
tight enough fit that I am worried that the carrying case could fail due 
to the stress imposed.  It is also fairly RF quiet.

I have decided to use the Gamma Research unit on portable light duty 
trips, and if anticipating Digital modes, bring the PowerWerks unit 
along.  Currently it powers the K3 in the shack.

Thanks a ll for your help and interest.

73 de Dave, W5SV
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] power supply question

[Doug Person]

  The new PowerWerx SS-30DV is about as small as practical and has Power 
Pole connectors.  Very quiet as well. Even smaller than the Samlex 1223.

Doug -- K0DXV

On 9/29/2010 5:17 PM, David F. Reed wrote:
I am looking for a switching supply that is low RF noise, light
 weight, and hopefully small enough maybe to fit in the side pockets of
 the K3 carrying case that Rose Kopp makes.  I believe something like
 2x4.5x8 or smaller would fit.  And if it had Anderson Power Pole
 connectors, so much the better.

 Any ideas or recommendations?

 Thanks and 73 de Dave, W5SV
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] power supply question

[William Ravenel]

Dave,

The Powerwerx SS-30  is 5 x 2.5 x 6.75 inches (including the connectors on the 
rear). It has two Powerpole connector pairs on the front and will handle 25 W 
continuous/30 W intermittent. It might be a little big for the side pocket of 
your bag based on the dimensions you provided but I don't know if you will get 
much smaller in a 25A supply unless you go with the Gamma Research HPS-1a that 
provides 5A continuous and 25A at a 25% duty cycle. 

http://www.powerwerx.com/batteries-chargers/powerwerx-30-amp-desktop-switching-power-supply-powerpoles.html
http://www.gammaresearch.net/hps-1a.html

I bought the Powerwerx supply at Dayton this year and used it for 24hrs 
straight at Field Day with my K3 working CW. It does have a fan that you can 
hear, but I've heard a lot worse and didn't notice it with the background noise 
at Field Day. The noise is noticeable in my shack, but I wear headphones most 
of the time and that takes care of it.

73 - Will
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] power supply question

[Jim Miller]

I only have the K3/10 but I use the very tiny Gamma HPS-1A

jim ab3cv
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] power supply question

[David F. Reed]

  Thanks all, I have two good candidates now; I appreciate the help.

73 de Dave, W5SV
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RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Dick Dievendorff]

I bought a PWRCrimp from West Mountain Radio, which cost about $50. It works
fine.  There may be others. 

However I had already made the decision to use Anderson Power Pole
connectors for the various 12V equipment I have, and this was a decision I
made after using APP connectors for a while.  I soldered several of them
before I got the crimp tool and haven't felt it necessary to replace
existing soldered connectors.

If the K3 were my first device requiring APP connectors, I'd solder them.
If you decide later that you wish you had crimped it instead, you can then
buy or borrow the crimp tool and use up another pair of APP connectors and
cut a little bit off the cable and do it again.

This is one of those tools I don't use very much but I'm really glad I have
it.

If you choose to solder, I'd recommend using a minimal amount of solder and
try not to let it wick into the cable so much that there's no flexibility at
the end of the cable.   

73 de Dick, K6KR
   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brett Howard
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:29 PM
To: Elecraft Users
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

Whats the recommended tool for this.  I'm going to buy a tool once and
I'm willing to pay the funds for a good one but would like to know a
good reputable source to find the tool that will give a good price.  I'd
like the tool to be specifically (first use) for building my K3 so
that's the main goal.  Then I'm sure that some day I'll convert
everything to APP but right now I'm too busy do to pretty much anything
but work sleep and homework.  

Brett (KC7OTG)


On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 11:14 -0700, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
 The K3 kit comes with a power cable and a pair of Anderson PowerPole
 connectors.
 
 You may crimp them (an appropriate tool is recommended) or they may be
 soldered if you wish.
 
 73 de Dick, K6KR
 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Thomas J. Hoedjes]

Hi Franki,

As of my knowledge therre is no european dealer fpr
Anderson PP. I order mine in the US and do not crimp them but solder
them.
In this way you can use them again if you have to and i do like
the solder more as crimping.
There is a lot of discussion whatever is
better: solder, crimping or both but solder is OK for me and I had never
any losses or trouble with it.

73 de Tom HB9DOD KL5X


 Hello group 
 
 Awaiting my K3, I am
preparing the transistion from TS-850 and anticipate 
 on 
 buying a compact SMPS. 
 I see that the power connection
is an Anderson PowerPole receptacle. That 
 type of connector is
not common here in EU or at least in Belgium. 
 Is there a mating
male part supplied to fit the cable from the PSU? There 
 is 
 a German (ham) distributor for these things but a crimp tool costs
66 Euro 
 (approx 100$) which is a silly investment to crimp only
one connector. 
 Is there an alternative way of crimping or
fitting the PowerPole? 
 
 Thanks for info / advice. 
 73 de Franki ON5ZO 
 http://on5zo.spaces.live.com/ 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[David Ferrington, M0XDF]

CPC in UK
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search2/browse.jsp?N=59+401+411Ntk=gensearch_003Ntt=CN03817Ntx=_requestid=661602 


but their site is down at present.

I ordered my crimp from Quicksilver radio in US
http://www.qsradio.com/Powerpoles.htm
they have a lot of PP stuff and give a very good service.
--
Black holes are where God divided by zero.
-Steven Wright, comedian (1955-)

On 1 Apr 2008, at 08:53, Thomas J. Hoedjes wrote:



Hi Franki,

As of my knowledge therre is no european dealer fpr
Anderson PP. I order mine in the US and do not crimp them but solder
them.
In this way you can use them again if you have to and i do like
the solder more as crimping.
There is a lot of discussion whatever is
better: solder, crimping or both but solder is OK for me and I had  
never

any losses or trouble with it.

73 de Tom HB9DOD KL5X


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question.. PPCRIMPER

[Bill NY9H]

At 06:41 AM 4/1/2008, Phil  Debbie Salas wrote:

Get the PwrCrimp from West Mountain Radio.YES.

--
After reading the ad copy about gooey black tape on your 12 v connections;
and avoid having a hi amp 12vdc short  fire.  I WAS SOLD ON 
POWERPOLES


I had the gooey black tape on my console wiring... nasty  ugly..
and I had a line of #20 short ...for a while causing a very red set 
of wires...and smokenot good in a wood console.


After crimping 40- or 50   by the 10$ crimper   got the good one...
It creates a fantastic crimp   I still sometimes touch the front 
side with solder.

Just a touch, or it will flow onto the contact surface

bill

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RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Jerry Flanders]

What am I missing here? Why isn't Elecraft assembling the connectors 
to the wire as a part of their process? Is there some reason to NOT 
assemble them prior to shipment? We all know how a loose connector 
can cause mysterious symptoms down the road.


I use powerpoles here, and I think I understand the system, but maybe not.

Some of Elecraft's customers are faced with having to spend $50 for a 
tool to use only one time? Why?


Jerry W4UK




On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 11:14 -0700, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
 The K3 kit comes with a power cable and a pair of Anderson PowerPole
 connectors.

 You may crimp them (an appropriate tool is recommended) or they may be
 soldered if you wish.

 73 de Dick, K6KR



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RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Darwin, Keith]

-Original Message-
What am I missing here? Why isn't Elecraft assembling the connectors to
the wire as a part of their process?

 
Kit vs. Factory built.  Kits are, well, kits.

- Keith N1AS -
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Re: RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[d.cutter]

There was once an issue as to whether special tools were required to assemble a 
K3.  It was also described as requiring no soldering.  I believe the cable 
should be supplied ready assembled.  Don't forget those folks outside the US 
who pay a lot for US tools, plus shipping plus import tax plus mark up

David
G3UNA
 
 From: Darwin, Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2008/04/01 Tue PM 04:33:18 BST
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question
 
 -Original Message-
 What am I missing here? Why isn't Elecraft assembling the connectors to
 the wire as a part of their process?
 
  
 Kit vs. Factory built.  Kits are, well, kits.
 
 - Keith N1AS -
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Ken Wagner K3IU]

They are probably not providing assembled for the same reason that they 
don't provide it with the K2/100... it's a kit. It is NOT necessary to 
buy the expensive crimping tool. There are instructions contained in 
each KIT describing how the connectors can be assembled without using a 
crimp. They can be soldered and if the directions are followed, it is 
perfectly useful and reliable.


With the factory assembled K3, I believe that the APP connector is 
attached to the power cable.


3,
Ken K3IU

Jerry Flanders wrote:
What am I missing here? Why isn't Elecraft assembling the connectors 
to the wire as a part of their process? Is there some reason to NOT 
assemble them prior to shipment? We all know how a loose connector can 
cause mysterious symptoms down the road.


I use powerpoles here, and I think I understand the system, but maybe 
not.


Some of Elecraft's customers are faced with having to spend $50 for a 
tool to use only one time? Why?


Jerry W4UK




On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 11:14 -0700, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
 The K3 kit comes with a power cable and a pair of Anderson PowerPole
 connectors.

 You may crimp them (an appropriate tool is recommended) or they may be
 soldered if you wish.

 73 de Dick, K6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604]

And those customers can always buy a premade cable- for example,
QSRadio has a 5' cable for $7.00 with ring terminals, 10' for  $10.00.

73, doug


   From: Tom Childers, N5GE [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:05:42 -0500

   On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 10:55:02 -0400, you wrote:

   Some of Elecraft's customers are faced with having to spend $50 for a 
   tool to use only one time? Why?
   
   Jerry W4UK

   Most kit builders have a soldering iron, so they certainly don't have to 
crimp
   the PP connectors.  

   In your post you say, Some of Elecraft's customers are faced with having to
   spend $50 for a tool to use only one time? Why?, although they have a 
choice to
   do it either way.  Why do you say that?  Elecraft does not require them to 
use a
   crimp tool.

   Please explain the logic of your statement.

   73,

   Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq

   They that can give up essential liberty
   to obtain a little temporary safety 
   deserve neither liberty nor safety.

   --Benjamin Franklin 1775


   Support the entire Constitution, not 
   just the parts you like.

   http://www.n5ge.com
   http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE

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RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Tom Childers, N5GE]

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 10:55:02 -0400, you wrote:

Some of Elecraft's customers are faced with having to spend $50 for a 
tool to use only one time? Why?

Jerry W4UK

Most kit builders have a soldering iron, so they certainly don't have to crimp
the PP connectors.  

In your post you say, Some of Elecraft's customers are faced with having to
spend $50 for a tool to use only one time? Why?, although they have a choice to
do it either way.  Why do you say that?  Elecraft does not require them to use a
crimp tool.

Please explain the logic of your statement.

73,

Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq

They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety 
deserve neither liberty nor safety.

--Benjamin Franklin 1775


Support the entire Constitution, not 
just the parts you like.

http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE

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Re: RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Paul Christensen]

problem.  You probably can make a decent connection without a special 
tool--it's just harder to do.


I would suggest that if someone does not have a precision APP crimp tool 
that they simply solder the pins, despite the fact that in the long run, 
cable flexing and vibration will eventually become problematic.  If the 
crimp is not performed correctly, the flat mating surface will oftentimes 
become distorted and out of alignment with the crimped portion.   If this 
occurs, one will usually see a bend in the overall pin.  The bend carries 
over to the mating surface when steated into the shell.  If that pin is also 
mated with a similar bended pin, then all bets are off.


The APP connection is marginal for 20A DC circuits -- the kind of current 
when the 100W K3 is transmitting at full power.  If the connector manages to 
come loose while transmitting, the pin surface can form a weld spot.  The 
underlying principle and quality of connection is 100% dependent on the 
alignment of the two flat surfaces.   I absolutely detest APP connectors and 
I have the best cable prep tools available.  However, I suppose use of the 
connector can be forgiven in light of its growing popularity.  Even Collins 
used riveted RCA jacks for the RF ports on the S-Line.  Nobody is perfect.


Paul, W9AC 


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Re: RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[David Yarnes]

David and All,

Well, some folks want everything!  Maybe a voltmeter and an oscilloscope 
should come with every kit as well!  Or perhaps a magnifying visor and 
tweezers should be included when SMD parts are involved.


I'm being facetious--sorry!  But I think you are overreacting to the 
problem.  You probably can make a decent connection without a special 
tool--it's just harder to do.  You can take a non-specific crimping tool and 
carefully manipulate the connector into a pretty good connection.  It's just 
that the APP tool does it in one easy press.  Mitch at the Ham Stop (now 
defunct I think) showed me how to do it at one of the hamfests.  He was 
selling those $10 crimpers as well as the $50 APP crimpers, and demonstrated 
why the APP tool was so much easier, but not absolutely necessary.  It took 
3 or 4 different manipulating presses with the cheaper tool.  But the end 
result looked pretty good.  You sort of have to coax (as in persuade, not 
RG8) the connector to form and clamp properly over the wire.  I think you 
could do the same thing with most other crimping tools.  The problem most 
people have with the cheaper crimpers is that they try to do it with one 
crushing push.  That usually causes the connector to bend inwards too much 
leaving a gap with wire strands not captured.  You want to clamp the 
connector on, but without leaving a gap.  So, pushing both from the top and 
from the sides helps you do this.  It doesn't take all that much time, but 
it only takes a couple of seconds with the APP tool.


So don't assume you are SOL because you don't have the perfect tool.  I have 
several connectors around that were made before I got the APP tool.  They 
are just fine.  But now that I have adopted the APP system almost 
exclusively, it only makes good sense to get the best tool.  Besides, most 
of the really experienced folks I know say you get a better connection with 
this system.  So why wouldn't you want to bite the bullet a bit and gear 
up for a better system???


Dave W7AQK


- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Darwin, Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question


There was once an issue as to whether special tools were required to 
assemble a K3.  It was also described as requiring no soldering.  I 
believe the cable should be supplied ready assembled.  Don't forget those 
folks outside the US who pay a lot for US tools, plus shipping plus import 
tax plus mark up


David
G3UNA


From: Darwin, Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/04/01 Tue PM 04:33:18 BST
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

-Original Message-
What am I missing here? Why isn't Elecraft assembling the connectors to
the wire as a part of their process?


Kit vs. Factory built.  Kits are, well, kits.

- Keith N1AS -
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RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Jerry Flanders]

I said that because I observed several guys on the reflector this 
morning discussing buying the $50 tool. Apparently they never needed 
it before, but felt that it is justified for the K3 assembly. Those 
guys will probably never need it after the K3 assembly.


I will solder mine, but I remember reading years ago that crimp 
connections are superior to solder - don't know why.


I am buying the kit, so I can't complain, but since it would cost 
only pennies to do it at Elecraft it seems like it would be a 
no-brainer if crimping is actually superior.


Jerry W4UK

At 12:05 PM 4/1/2008, Tom Childers, N5GE wrote:

...In your post you say, Some of Elecraft's customers are faced 
with having to
spend $50 for a tool to use only one time? Why?, although they have 
a choice to

do it either way.  Why do you say that?

Please explain the logic of your statement.

73,

Tom, N5GE


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RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

The tool recommended by Elecraft in the assembly instructions for their
power supply cable kit is the West Mountain Radio PWRCrimp Powerpole Crimp
tool with a #02 die (www.westmountainradio.com/PWRcrimp.htm).

I don't have any personal experience with it. I solder my terminals onto the
leads. It only takes a minute and produces an excellent, dependable
connection.

If I were assembling hundreds of terminals every day I'd buy the crimper in
a flash, but only if I needed to do very large quantities in a short time. 

Ron AC7AC
 

-Original Message-


Whats the recommended tool for this.  I'm going to buy a tool once and I'm
willing to pay the funds for a good one but would like to know a good
reputable source to find the tool that will give a good price.  I'd like the
tool to be specifically (first use) for building my K3 so that's the main
goal.  Then I'm sure that some day I'll convert everything to APP but right
now I'm too busy do to pretty much anything but work sleep and homework.  

Brett (KC7OTG)


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RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Jerry wrote:

Some of Elecraft's customers are faced with having to spend $50 for a 
tool to use only one time? Why?

-

They aren't. Soldering the APP connectors is recommended and does a superb
job. 

Ron AC7AC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Dave Hachadorian]

Most kit builders have a soldering iron, so they certainly 
don't have to crimp

the PP connectors.

In your post you say, Some of Elecraft's customers are 
faced with having to
spend $50 for a tool to use only one time? Why?, although 
they have a choice to
do it either way.  Why do you say that?  Elecraft does not 
require them to use a

crimp tool.
--

What about the advertising claim No-solder Kit?

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[David Wilburn]

http://www.powerwerx.com/adapter-extension-cables/

Order cables already made up, order crimper's, order power supply 
cables, order APP to OEM cables.


Spend the money, or solder it.

Enjoy

Dave Wilburn
K4DGW
K2/100 - S/N 5982

What do you feel when you kill a terroist? Recoil.


Dave Hachadorian wrote:
Most kit builders have a soldering iron, so they certainly don't have to 
crimp

the PP connectors.

In your post you say, Some of Elecraft's customers are faced with 
having to
spend $50 for a tool to use only one time? Why?, although they have a 
choice to
do it either way.  Why do you say that?  Elecraft does not require them 
to use a

crimp tool.
--

What about the advertising claim No-solder Kit?

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Kenneth E. Harker]

Or just buy a pre-fab power cable already if you can't handle making your 
own:

http://www.westmountainradio.com/rigrunner/ps_cbl_6.htm (for one example).



On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 10:25:50AM -0700, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
 Jerry wrote:
 
 Some of Elecraft's customers are faced with having to spend $50 for a 
 tool to use only one time? Why?
 
 -
 
 They aren't. Soldering the APP connectors is recommended and does a superb
 job. 
 
 Ron AC7AC
 
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RE: RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

The power cable kit is included as a convenience for those who don't have an
APP-equipped power cable handy. 

It's not part of the K3 kit, nor does it require any special tools (other
than a soldering iron) to assemble correctly. 

Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:46 AM
To: Darwin, Keith; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question


There was once an issue as to whether special tools were required to
assemble a K3.  It was also described as requiring no soldering.  I believe
the cable should be supplied ready assembled.  Don't forget those folks
outside the US who pay a lot for US tools, plus shipping plus import tax
plus mark up

David
G3UNA

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RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[G4ILO]

Jerry Flanders wrote:
 
 I said that because I observed several guys on the reflector this 
 morning discussing buying the $50 tool. Apparently they never needed 
 it before, but felt that it is justified for the K3 assembly. Those 
 guys will probably never need it after the K3 assembly.
 
 I will solder mine, but I remember reading years ago that crimp 
 connections are superior to solder - don't know why.
 
 I am buying the kit, so I can't complain, but since it would cost 
 only pennies to do it at Elecraft it seems like it would be a 
 no-brainer if crimping is actually superior.
 
 Jerry W4UK
 
 
If you'd been reading this reflector since when building K2s was most talked
about you'd know that some people bought $200 soldering stations and $100
DMMs just to build the kit. Every few months a thread would pop up about
which solder station to buy. Some people just need an excuse to spend money.
g

Personally I can't imagine how crimping an APP would be better than
soldering it - quicker, yes, but better? I'm sure the difference won't be
detectable by the guy you're in QSO with!

-
Julian, G4ILO  K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/K3-power-supply-question-tp16404247p16428259.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[ab2tc]

I have been told throughout my professional career that a crimped joint is
more reliable than a soldered one but I am skeptical. Maybe a perfectly
executed crimp is theoretically better but my own experience shows
otherwise. Cars, industrial installations come to mind. I have witnessed
plenty of bad crimps but frankly very few bad soldered connections.

Knut - AB2TC


G4ILO wrote:
 
 
 Jerry Flanders wrote:
 
 I said that because I observed several guys on the reflector this 
 morning discussing buying the $50 tool. Apparently they never needed 
 it before, but felt that it is justified for the K3 assembly. Those 
 guys will probably never need it after the K3 assembly.
 
 I will solder mine, but I remember reading years ago that crimp 
 connections are superior to solder - don't know why.
 
 I am buying the kit, so I can't complain, but since it would cost 
 only pennies to do it at Elecraft it seems like it would be a 
 no-brainer if crimping is actually superior.
 
 Jerry W4UK
 
 
 If you'd been reading this reflector since when building K2s was most
 talked about you'd know that some people bought $200 soldering stations
 and $100 DMMs just to build the kit. Every few months a thread would pop
 up about which solder station to buy. Some people just need an excuse to
 spend money. g
 
 Personally I can't imagine how crimping an APP would be better than
 soldering it - quicker, yes, but better? I'm sure the difference won't be
 detectable by the guy you're in QSO with!
 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/K3-power-supply-question-tp16404247p16429563.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Dick Dievendorff]

The K3 kit comes with a power cable and a pair of Anderson PowerPole
connectors.

You may crimp them (an appropriate tool is recommended) or they may be
soldered if you wish.

73 de Dick, K6KR


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Franki ON5ZO
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:06 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

Hello group

Awaiting my K3, I am preparing the transistion from TS-850 and anticipate on

buying a compact SMPS.
I see that the power connection is an Anderson PowerPole receptacle. That 
type of connector is not common here in EU or at least in Belgium.
Is there a mating male part supplied to fit the cable from the PSU? There is

a German (ham) distributor for these things but a crimp tool costs 66 Euro 
(approx 100$) which is a silly investment to crimp only one connector.
Is there an alternative way of crimping or fitting the PowerPole?

Thanks for info / advice.
73 de Franki ON5ZO
http://on5zo.spaces.live.com/ 

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RE: [Elecraft] K3 power supply question

[Brett Howard]

Whats the recommended tool for this.  I'm going to buy a tool once and
I'm willing to pay the funds for a good one but would like to know a
good reputable source to find the tool that will give a good price.  I'd
like the tool to be specifically (first use) for building my K3 so
that's the main goal.  Then I'm sure that some day I'll convert
everything to APP but right now I'm too busy do to pretty much anything
but work sleep and homework.  

Brett (KC7OTG)


On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 11:14 -0700, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
 The K3 kit comes with a power cable and a pair of Anderson PowerPole
 connectors.
 
 You may crimp them (an appropriate tool is recommended) or they may be
 soldered if you wish.
 
 73 de Dick, K6KR
 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Power supply question

[Bill W5WVO]

Guess you stumped everybody -- no responses in the list!  :-)

I'm not an expert in switchers, but it seems to me that the problem might be a 
combination of the imperfect sine wave output from your inverter coupled with 
the fact that you're putting a very low load on the switcher in receive mode. 
(Assuming the switcher doesn't produce this hum when plugged into the mains.) 
I think I would try an analog supply in place of the switcher and see if you 
still get it. I think you wouldn't.


Second, I wouldn't necessarily trust on-air reports about your transmitted 
audio where the signal strengths aren't extremely strong. You might have a hum 
on there that is quite a few dB down from peak audio, and it isn't detectable 
under the ambient received noise. If a local guy who is copying you S9+20 says 
you have no hum, then I'd believe it (if you trust his integrity and technical 
competence to make such a judgment).


Or it could be some kind of ground loop problem, but it sounds like you have 
that covered. Ground current analysis in a complex home electrical/radio 
system is still black magic to me.  :-)


Bill W5WVO


Matt Zilmer wrote:

Hi to all,

This is not a critical issue, but it might interest some.  It's also
not necessarily specific to K3's.  Keywords might be switching power
supply, inverter, and grounding.

The problem I describe below was never experienced with the K2, only
with the K3.  I exchanged the two radios to confirm this
experimentally.

The power supply scenario is as follows.

Qty 2 - 50W Siemens solar panels on the roof above the shack supply a
12V 100A-Hr SLA battery.  The battery is charged through a Micro-X
charge controller, and this arrangement has been used for a few years
with my K2.  It seems to work well under all conditions.  The K2 is
the low power QRP version, and generally draws less than 2.5 A from
the battery at power levels I run.

The battery is connected to a Xantrex RS-400 sine wave inverter.  THD
on the 60 Hz output is supposed to be  3%.  Looking at its output via
a Tek 2465A scope shows a very clean sine wave, even under the max
400W load.  The inverter is rated 400W, with surge to 800W.

The inverter feeds an Astron SL-11A switching power supply that powers
the K3/10.  Its output is 13.6V, and under max load at the K3 we're
talking about 2.8A, or 39W.

All units described above are bond-grounded to each other using a 1/2
braided strap.  The strap drops 10 feet or so to an 8 foot ground rod.
The ground rod is also bonded to the house ground nearby.  The house
ground is used for all main and backup loads for a much larger Solar
PV system that we use to power the house here.

When using the Battery = Inverter = SL-11A power supply = K3 power
supply path to power the radio, the switching supply hums quite a lot
in weird non-periodic ways.  I can sometimes hear the same hum on the
K3 RX audio, but have had no reports of it showing up on TX audio when
I asked the other party.  Very clean audio, they would always say.

Given the long-winded narrative above, does anyone have an idea about
the rx noise I'm hearing?  Seems like it's not getting in through the
DC, since it doesn't show on SSB TX.  So maybe I'm hearing it over the
air?

I thought this might be common mode noise, but the TX reports I've got
with this power supply setup won't support that.  Grounding can affect
that, but since low impedance paths are connecting all the inline
stuff, this doesn't seem the easy answer either.

Sorry to take up so much bandwidth, but it's possible another
Elecrafter type might face a similar issue.  So it seemed worth the
bits.

BTW, connecting the K3 directly to the 12V SLA battery has none of the
above effects and works fine.  Please - no flames over the easy
answer, OK?  :)

73 and thanks for any thoughts,

matt zilmer, WA6EGJ
K2 s/n 2810
K3 s/n 0024


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Power supply question

[Don Ehrlich]

My gut feel is that you may have some interaction between the 
regulator/feedback loops in the inverter and switcher ... or the regulator 
in the switcher is affected by the filtering of the inverter.  I have seen 
cases where perfectly well behaved power supplies (when operated alone, as 
their designers usually intend) can start acting strangely when one power 
supply feeds into another.  The basic problem is feedback loop instability 
due to one supply regulator being affected by a non-linear active load 
presented to it by its load, which is another power supply.


Just a thought.  If this is the problem then a scope connected to the input 
of the K3 might show some ripple due to the instability but not necessarily 
so.  Instability of this kind may not introduce much voltage ripple at all 
at low impedance points.


Don K7FJ



Matt Zilmer wrote:

Hi to all,

This is not a critical issue, but it might interest some.  It's also
not necessarily specific to K3's.  Keywords might be switching power
supply, inverter, and grounding.

The problem I describe below was never experienced with the K2, only
with the K3.  I exchanged the two radios to confirm this
experimentally.

The power supply scenario is as follows.

Qty 2 - 50W Siemens solar panels on the roof above the shack supply a
12V 100A-Hr SLA battery.  The battery is charged through a Micro-X
charge controller, and this arrangement has been used for a few years
with my K2.  It seems to work well under all conditions.  The K2 is
the low power QRP version, and generally draws less than 2.5 A from
the battery at power levels I run.

The battery is connected to a Xantrex RS-400 sine wave inverter.  THD
on the 60 Hz output is supposed to be  3%.  Looking at its output via
a Tek 2465A scope shows a very clean sine wave, even under the max
400W load.  The inverter is rated 400W, with surge to 800W.

The inverter feeds an Astron SL-11A switching power supply that powers
the K3/10.  Its output is 13.6V, and under max load at the K3 we're
talking about 2.8A, or 39W.

All units described above are bond-grounded to each other using a 1/2
braided strap.  The strap drops 10 feet or so to an 8 foot ground rod.
The ground rod is also bonded to the house ground nearby.  The house
ground is used for all main and backup loads for a much larger Solar
PV system that we use to power the house here.

When using the Battery = Inverter = SL-11A power supply = K3 power
supply path to power the radio, the switching supply hums quite a lot
in weird non-periodic ways.  I can sometimes hear the same hum on the
K3 RX audio, but have had no reports of it showing up on TX audio when
I asked the other party.  Very clean audio, they would always say.

Given the long-winded narrative above, does anyone have an idea about
the rx noise I'm hearing?  Seems like it's not getting in through the
DC, since it doesn't show on SSB TX.  So maybe I'm hearing it over the
air?

I thought this might be common mode noise, but the TX reports I've got
with this power supply setup won't support that.  Grounding can affect
that, but since low impedance paths are connecting all the inline
stuff, this doesn't seem the easy answer either.

Sorry to take up so much bandwidth, but it's possible another
Elecrafter type might face a similar issue.  So it seemed worth the
bits.

BTW, connecting the K3 directly to the 12V SLA battery has none of the
above effects and works fine.  Please - no flames over the easy
answer, OK?  :)

73 and thanks for any thoughts,

matt zilmer, WA6EGJ
K2 s/n 2810
K3 s/n 0024


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Power supply question

[David Cutter]

I heard of this problem of instability when a second psu upset the first one 
due to very high values of input capacitance.


David
G3UNA

- Original Message - 
From: Don Ehrlich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Bill W5WVO [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net

Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Power supply question


My gut feel is that you may have some interaction between the 
regulator/feedback loops in the inverter and switcher ... or the regulator 
in the switcher is affected by the filtering of the inverter.  I have seen 
cases where perfectly well behaved power supplies (when operated alone, as 
their designers usually intend) can start acting strangely when one power 
supply feeds into another.  The basic problem is feedback loop instability 
due to one supply regulator being affected by a non-linear active load 
presented to it by its load, which is another power supply.


Just a thought.  If this is the problem then a scope connected to the 
input of the K3 might show some ripple due to the instability but not 
necessarily so.  Instability of this kind may not introduce much voltage 
ripple at all at low impedance points.


Don K7FJ



Matt Zilmer wrote:

Hi to all,

This is not a critical issue, but it might interest some.  It's also
not necessarily specific to K3's.  Keywords might be switching power
supply, inverter, and grounding.

The problem I describe below was never experienced with the K2, only
with the K3.  I exchanged the two radios to confirm this
experimentally.

The power supply scenario is as follows.

Qty 2 - 50W Siemens solar panels on the roof above the shack supply a
12V 100A-Hr SLA battery.  The battery is charged through a Micro-X
charge controller, and this arrangement has been used for a few years
with my K2.  It seems to work well under all conditions.  The K2 is
the low power QRP version, and generally draws less than 2.5 A from
the battery at power levels I run.

The battery is connected to a Xantrex RS-400 sine wave inverter.  THD
on the 60 Hz output is supposed to be  3%.  Looking at its output via
a Tek 2465A scope shows a very clean sine wave, even under the max
400W load.  The inverter is rated 400W, with surge to 800W.

The inverter feeds an Astron SL-11A switching power supply that powers
the K3/10.  Its output is 13.6V, and under max load at the K3 we're
talking about 2.8A, or 39W.

All units described above are bond-grounded to each other using a 1/2
braided strap.  The strap drops 10 feet or so to an 8 foot ground rod.
The ground rod is also bonded to the house ground nearby.  The house
ground is used for all main and backup loads for a much larger Solar
PV system that we use to power the house here.

When using the Battery = Inverter = SL-11A power supply = K3 power
supply path to power the radio, the switching supply hums quite a lot
in weird non-periodic ways.  I can sometimes hear the same hum on the
K3 RX audio, but have had no reports of it showing up on TX audio when
I asked the other party.  Very clean audio, they would always say.

Given the long-winded narrative above, does anyone have an idea about
the rx noise I'm hearing?  Seems like it's not getting in through the
DC, since it doesn't show on SSB TX.  So maybe I'm hearing it over the
air?

I thought this might be common mode noise, but the TX reports I've got
with this power supply setup won't support that.  Grounding can affect
that, but since low impedance paths are connecting all the inline
stuff, this doesn't seem the easy answer either.

Sorry to take up so much bandwidth, but it's possible another
Elecrafter type might face a similar issue.  So it seemed worth the
bits.

BTW, connecting the K3 directly to the 12V SLA battery has none of the
above effects and works fine.  Please - no flames over the easy
answer, OK?  :)

73 and thanks for any thoughts,

matt zilmer, WA6EGJ
K2 s/n 2810
K3 s/n 0024


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