Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...
> As I find the answer, I'll post to the board. Thanks, Guy, N7UN/2 The answer is that an FCC ID number may, or may not be affixed to your Part 97 transceiver. With the exception of amplifiers under part 97.315, Part 97 transceivers need no certification/authorization, even if they are imported into the U.S. This should not be confused with certification under Part 15 where a "personal use" exemption often applies. In St. Lucia, you'll need to demonstrate that your transceiver is exempt from certification/authorization. Your job is convince the respective county's customs officers that amateur-band transceivers require no FCC certification/authorization. If an external RF amplifier is being taken, then be prepared to show evidence of the FCC ID number to both U.S. and foreign customs agents. Upon re-entry into the U.S., be prepared to show CBP officers a copy of Part 97 and 47 CFR 2.1204. I would also bring a copy of ET Docket No. 03-108 which DOES specifically state that Part 97 transceivers are exempt from certification/authorization. Otherwise, you will not find a rule within Part 97 that specifically excludes certification/authorization for amateur transceivers. It's the absence of an affirmative rule that presents difficulties when an officer states: "Fine, but show me the rule." Paul, W9AC. - Original Message - From: "GUY HAMBLEN" To: Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:53 PM Subject: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2... > Here's a link to information about an FCC ID#. St Lucia > Telecommuncations Bureau is asking for this information prior to > bringing my transceiver into the country. > > "An FCC ID has 2 elements. The first is a three-character Grantee Code > which usually begins with an alphabetic character and does not contain > 1s or 0s. The FCC permanently assigns this code to a company for > authorization of radio frequency equipment." from > http://www.tech-faq.com/fcc-id.shtml. > > My Yaesu handheld has a FCC ID on the case under the battery. I may be > mistaken, but isn't this # part of the Type Acceptance process for any > transceiver? > > As I find the answer, I'll post to the board. Thanks, Guy, N7UN/2 > > >> From: Phil Kane > >> AFAIK there is no such thing as "FCC ID" for a transceiver of >> this sort but check with Elecraft to see if they have ever run >> into this. > > An amateur bands-only transceiver capable of operating strictly within > Part > 97 spectrum is exempt from FCC importation certification/authorization. > See > 47 CFR 2.1204(a)(2). This rule is further exemplified under ET Docket > No. > 03-108; FCC 07-66. "Cognitive Radio Technologies and Software Defined > Radios." > > Paul, W9AC > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...
Before anyone travelling to the Caribbean "gets prepared" and worries about showing of all of these documents, keep in mind that no one cares about someone transporting their own amateur radio through customs. Their concern is catching stuff that is going to be sold - and they want to collect the duty on it. Have your FCC license with you and the owner's manual for the radio - just in case. It is your personal property, and you will not be leaving it in the country you are taking it to. It is of no more concern than if you were bringing a camera with you. All that said, I have been through customs dozens of times going to Antigua and back through U.S. customs both in Puerto Rico and in Miami and not once did anyone ask me for any FCC id numbers or anything like that - either direction. Act like there's no reason to be concerned (which there really isn't - since you are not importing the stuff to sell it) and pay one of the porters at the airport to take all of your bags on one of their carts - including any radio equipment - right from baggage claim area, through customs, and then outside the airport. Do not volunteer any information you are not asked for or mention ham radio equipment unless you are asked about it. You should not take your radio or amplifier in the original cartons. Get them inside of normal looking suitcases if at all possible. Look like a tourist - not a freight transporter. 73, Bob W5OV / V26O -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Paul Christensen Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:44 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2... > As I find the answer, I'll post to the board. Thanks, Guy, N7UN/2 The answer is that an FCC ID number may, or may not be affixed to your Part 97 transceiver. With the exception of amplifiers under part 97.315, Part 97 transceivers need no certification/authorization, even if they are imported into the U.S. This should not be confused with certification under Part 15 where a "personal use" exemption often applies. In St. Lucia, you'll need to demonstrate that your transceiver is exempt from certification/authorization. Your job is convince the respective county's customs officers that amateur-band transceivers require no FCC certification/authorization. If an external RF amplifier is being taken, then be prepared to show evidence of the FCC ID number to both U.S. and foreign customs agents. Upon re-entry into the U.S., be prepared to show CBP officers a copy of Part 97 and 47 CFR 2.1204. I would also bring a copy of ET Docket No. 03-108 which DOES specifically state that Part 97 transceivers are exempt from certification/authorization. Otherwise, you will not find a rule within Part 97 that specifically excludes certification/authorization for amateur transceivers. It's the absence of an affirmative rule that presents difficulties when an officer states: "Fine, but show me the rule." Paul, W9AC. - Original Message - From: "GUY HAMBLEN" To: Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:53 PM Subject: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2... > Here's a link to information about an FCC ID#. St Lucia > Telecommuncations Bureau is asking for this information prior to > bringing my transceiver into the country. > > "An FCC ID has 2 elements. The first is a three-character Grantee Code > which usually begins with an alphabetic character and does not contain > 1s or 0s. The FCC permanently assigns this code to a company for > authorization of radio frequency equipment." from > http://www.tech-faq.com/fcc-id.shtml. > > My Yaesu handheld has a FCC ID on the case under the battery. I may be > mistaken, but isn't this # part of the Type Acceptance process for any > transceiver? > > As I find the answer, I'll post to the board. Thanks, Guy, N7UN/2 > > >> From: Phil Kane > >> AFAIK there is no such thing as "FCC ID" for a transceiver of >> this sort but check with Elecraft to see if they have ever run >> into this. > > An amateur bands-only transceiver capable of operating strictly within > Part > 97 spectrum is exempt from FCC importation certification/authorization. > See > 47 CFR 2.1204(a)(2). This rule is further exemplified under ET Docket > No. > 03-108; FCC 07-66. "Cognitive Radio Technologies and Software Defined > Radios." > > Paul, W9AC > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email li
Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...
On Sun, 2009-10-25 at 19:44 -0400, Paul Christensen wrote: ... > > Upon re-entry into the U.S., be prepared to show CBP officers a copy of Part > 97 and 47 CFR 2.1204. I would also bring a copy of ET Docket No. 03-108 > which DOES specifically state that Part 97 transceivers are exempt from > certification/authorization. Paul - I searched the following document (ET Docket No. 03-108) for the words "amateur" and "97" but couldn't find anything in it that exempts part 97 transceivers from anything. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-57A1.pdf Could you give me a pointer to where in the document it says that? Also, in 47 CFR 2.1204, http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title47/47-1.0.1.1.3.10.221.4.html the closest thing to an exemption for ham radios I could find was: "Three or fewer radio receivers, computers, or other unintentional radiators as defined in part 15 of this chapter, are being imported for the individual's personal use and are not intended for sale." But that doesn't seem to apply to an amateur transceiver (nothing about transmitters). Thanks, Alan N1AL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...
Alan Bloom: > Paul - I searched the following document (ET Docket No. 03-108) for the > words "amateur" and "97" but couldn't find anything in it that exempts > part 97 transceivers from anything. Could you give me a pointer to where > in the document it says that? See footnote 51 of the R&O, beginning with "The transmitters in question were marketed as amateur equipment, which is normally exempt from a certification requirement..." Also see paragraph 62 with resepct to SDRs used in the amateur service. Specifically... "In the Notice, we proposed to exempt manufactured software defined radios that are designed to operate solely in amateur bands from any mandatory declaration and certification requirements, provided the equipment incorporates features in hardware to prevent operation outside of amateur bands...Therefore, we decline to adopt any new regulations for amateur transceivers or D/A converters at this time." > Also, in 47 CFR 2.1204, > the closest thing to an exemption for ham radios I could find was: > "Three or fewer radio receivers, computers, or other unintentional > radiators as defined in part 15 of this chapter, are being imported > for the individual's personal use and are not intended for sale." That's the Part 15 "personal use exception," I already commented on and does not apply to Part 97 transceivers. Alan, look again at Sec. 2.1204(a)(2) concerning certification and importation: "Sec. 2.1204 Import conditions. (a) Radio frequency devices may be imported only if one or more of these conditions are met: (1) The radio frequency device has been issued an equipment authorization by the FCC. (2) The radio frequency device is not required to have an equipment authorization and the device complies with FCC technical administrative regulations." Thus, 47 CFR 2.1204(a)(2) applies to amateur-band only transceivers. Since the FCC does not require certification/authorization of amateur-band transceivers, this subsection on importation & certification exemption is invoked, provided that the equipment otherwise complies with FCC technical administrative regulations. Paul, W9AC . __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...
Robert W5OV wrote: > Before anyone travelling to the Caribbean "gets prepared" and worries about > showing of all of these documents, keep in mind that no one cares about > someone transporting their own amateur radio through customs. Their concern > is catching stuff that is going to be sold - and they want to collect the > duty on it. > I was once required to post a bond on my K3 when taking it to a Caribbean country. They accepted all the cash I had, which wasn't as much as the percentage they wanted. When I left, I got to the airport an extra hour ahead, and received my original cash as a refund. Leigh/WA5ZNU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...
See: http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=about&id=amateur Which says, in part, "The FCC equipment authorization program does not generally apply to amateur station transmitters." One of the primary reasons many of us hold Amateur licenses is because we can build or modify transmitting equipment without getting FCC approval or having an FCC review, perhaps from a kit or our own design built with parts from our junk boxes. I certainly have never seen any FCC designation applied to any of my homebrew rigs or to any of the many kits I've built over the last 60 years. If Phil Kane, a career FCC engineer until his retirement a few years ago, doesn't know about it, you can be sure it's something very recent, apparently something that applies only to some imported gear for the "plug 'n play" Hams. Faced with such a question for any equipment that didn't show a number, I would insert "Not Applicable" or "None". Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...
> Before anyone travelling to the Caribbean "gets prepared" and worries > about > showing of all of these documents, keep in mind that no one cares about > someone transporting their own amateur radio through customs. Until one day when you meet that one overzealous customs officer who says: "You can enter, but your equipment can't." Carrying a few extra documents along with your other paper credentials may make a significant difference, depending on the customs officer you get on any given day. Paul, W9AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...
> Faced with such a question for any equipment that didn't show a number, I > would insert "Not Applicable" or "None". Ron, good feedback. I probably wouldn't state "None" as it may give the impression that there should be an FCC ID number when "Not Applicable" would be more appropriate. Then, be prepared to present the supplemental documents if a customs officer forces the issue. Paul, W9AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...
Another possibility is to obtain a carnet. (pronounced car-nay) A carnet is a document allowing temporary importation of equipment without payment of duties and taxes, where the goods are only to be in the country temporarily. When I was active in the cellular radio telecommunications consulting business, we hauled specialized test equipment all around Europe and Asia with carnet documents without much of a problem. When leaving the country you present the carnet and the equipment to establish that the equipment has, in fact, left the country. Jack K8ZOA Paul Christensen wrote: >> Before anyone travelling to the Caribbean "gets prepared" and worries >> about >> showing of all of these documents, keep in mind that no one cares about >> someone transporting their own amateur radio through customs. >> > > Until one day when you meet that one overzealous customs officer who says: > "You can enter, but your equipment can't." Carrying a few extra documents > along with your other paper credentials may make a significant difference, > depending on the customs officer you get on any given day. > > Paul, W9AC > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...
Leigh, How did they determine you had something that needed duty collected on it? As you found, they did not ask for FCC certification - it's always the money. We had the same problem in Antigua until we caught on to the "don't ask, don't tell" policy and using the porters to handle your bags. As you found, they wanted to make sure that you were not selling it in country and them not collecting the duty they are "entitled" to. The best thing to do is to keep a low profile, be a tourist and not draw any attention. Again, no cardboard boxes - just normal suitcases that look like they are full of clothes. The customs agents in these little countries are not in place to enforce telecomm laws - it is to collect duty. None of this is not to say that it is impossible to have a problem - the point is that if you go looking for trouble with these guys, you're going to find it. If you don't say anything, just be a vacationer and be lazy - let the local porters take your luggage (it's worth the few bucks you pay them) and you should slip through without difficulty. Relax and have fun. 73, Bob W5OV / V26O -Original Message- From: Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU [mailto:le...@wa5znu.org] Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 11:59 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Cc: Robert Naumann Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2... Robert W5OV wrote: > Before anyone travelling to the Caribbean "gets prepared" and worries about > showing of all of these documents, keep in mind that no one cares about > someone transporting their own amateur radio through customs. Their concern > is catching stuff that is going to be sold - and they want to collect the > duty on it. > I was once required to post a bond on my K3 when taking it to a Caribbean country. They accepted all the cash I had, which wasn't as much as the percentage they wanted. When I left, I got to the airport an extra hour ahead, and received my original cash as a refund. Leigh/WA5ZNU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...
I haven't tried this and probalby won't BUT what "other documentation" are you referring to? What might they be looking for? Just what is it they might be questioning? Thanks es 73, de Jim KG0KP - Original Message - From: "Paul Christensen" To: Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:02 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2... >> Faced with such a question for any equipment that didn't show a number, I >> would insert "Not Applicable" or "None". > > Ron, good feedback. I probably wouldn't state "None" as it may give the > impression that there should be an FCC ID number when "Not Applicable" > would > be more appropriate. Then, be prepared to present the supplemental > documents if a customs officer forces the issue. > > Paul, W9AC > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
