Re: [Elecraft] GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY
Brian, I will only take a small issue with you. I agree we should support any company that brings good, cost effective products to the HAM market. And yes the company should support these products for a reasonable period of time. But as soon as these products become non competitive, just because they are from a US company, does not mean we should buy their products. George, W6GF From: Brian McInerney wn8...@gmail.com To: Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 1:28:45 PM Subject: [Elecraft] GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY I usually don’t comment on these types of forums, and invariably someone will find fault with your comments and take you to task. However; in spite of that I feel burden to share the following perspectives with this group. I have had 69 years of experience, many levels of electronic maintenance, from vacuum type electronics, in the 1950 through large scale integration using computers and digital logic. Through this time the following has happened to me. 1. I have seen the following go out of business – Heathkit, Collins, Drake, and many others. As companies grew larger, they forgot their roots and those things which made their product so great. 2. I have IC 821 that was a great radio. Company after 6years has decided not to support the radio can’t get parts. Solution: Throw it way and buy another radio. The same manufacture has decided not to sell another produce last year because they new they had a lot of field problems because of the complaints of the customer. Their solution was to not support the radio any more. I ask you is that customer service ? We all now the answer. 3. Some manufactures have proprietary hardware chips and software. When you have problems and they have chosen at the corporate level not to support or move support services overseas to off shore companies, what happens. We have all had this happen to us with some computer companies. It is ex-asperating. I could go on, on and on, so here is my point. Elecraft Company is doing it right. Bring jobs back from over seas back to USA. Designing a great product. It appears they won’t leave you in the dark. Your support and further purchases depend on your satisfaction. So lets continue to help support in all ways to make this company stay in business. Brian Mc Inerney WB8IDY CF 989-859-9374 -- Brian McInerney WB8IDY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY
I couldn't agree with you more strongly. Bruce - W8FU -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Brian McInerney Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 4:29 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY I usually don't comment on these types of forums, and invariably someone will find fault with your comments and take you to task. However; in spite of that I feel burden to share the following perspectives with this group. I have had 69 years of experience, many levels of electronic maintenance, from vacuum type electronics, in the 1950 through large scale integration using computers and digital logic. Through this time the following has happened to me. 1. I have seen the following go out of business - Heathkit, Collins, Drake, and many others. As companies grew larger, they forgot their roots and those things which made their product so great. 2. I have IC 821 that was a great radio. Company after 6years has decided not to support the radio can't get parts. Solution: Throw it way and buy another radio. The same manufacture has decided not to sell another produce last year because they new they had a lot of field problems because of the complaints of the customer. Their solution was to not support the radio any more. I ask you is that customer service ? We all now the answer. 3. Some manufactures have proprietary hardware chips and software. When you have problems and they have chosen at the corporate level not to support or move support services overseas to off shore companies, what happens. We have all had this happen to us with some computer companies. It is ex-asperating. I could go on, on and on, so here is my point. Elecraft Company is doing it right. Bring jobs back from over seas back to USA. Designing a great product. It appears they won't leave you in the dark. Your support and further purchases depend on your satisfaction. So lets continue to help support in all ways to make this company stay in business. Brian Mc Inerney WB8IDY CF 989-859-9374 -- Brian McInerney WB8IDY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY
I don't disagree with Brian's plaudits for Elecraft's focus on customer service but that wasn't the primary reason that the companies he sited went out of business. In a book entitled The Innovator's Dilemma, the author showed that large companies get caught when technologies change. Heath, Drake, Collins and others were leaders before solid-state technology advanced. They were simply not quick enough on their feet to make the switch to solid state that allowed Yaesu, Icom and Kenwood to eat their lunch. And, now, that software-defined radio has moved from edge-of-the-art to state-of-the-art, those companies are being surpassed as leaders by companies like Elecraft. Historically, leaders in one technology are not able to make the leap as quickly as new innovators who don't have the legacy baggage to drag behind them. IBM led in mainframes, but DEC and HP led in minicomputers, and so on. Nokia led in cell phones, but is having its lunch eaten by Apple, HTC, LG and Samsung in smartphones. Customer service is just one part of the complex reasons why new leaders emerge. Rob K6RB I usually dont comment on these types of forums, and invariably someone will find fault with your comments and take you to task. However; in spite of that I feel burden to share the following perspectives with this group. I have had 69 years of experience, many levels of electronic maintenance, from vacuum type electronics, in the 1950 through large scale integration using computers and digital logic. Through this time the following has happened to me. 1. I have seen the following go out of business Heathkit, Collins, Drake, and many others. As companies grew larger, they forgot their roots and those things which made their product so great. 2. I have IC 821 that was a great radio. Company after 6years has decided not to support the radio cant get parts. Solution: Throw it way and buy another radio. The same manufacture has decided not to sell another produce last year because they new they had a lot of field problems because of the complaints of the customer. Their solution was to not support the radio any more. I ask you is that customer service ? We all now the answer. 3. Some manufactures have proprietary hardware chips and software. When you have problems and they have chosen at the corporate level not to support or move support services overseas to off shore companies, what happens. We have all had this happen to us with some computer companies. It is ex-asperating. I could go on, on and on, so here is my point. Elecraft Company is doing it right. Bring jobs back from over seas back to USA. Designing a great product. It appears they wont leave you in the dark. Your support and further purchases depend on your satisfaction. So lets continue to help support in all ways to make this company stay in business. Brian Mc Inerney WB8IDY CF 989-859-9374 -- Brian McInerney WB8IDY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY
I wasn't active in ham radio at the time of Heathkit's demise, so I don't know what they were doing or not doing in the ham radio arena, but they certainly were't lacking for expertise in solid-state electronics. I built their AR-15 stereo radio kit while I was on a Navy ammunition ship in Vietnam, and later built their H-89 computer, which was state of the art at the time, albeit primitive by today's standards. These were very well-designed solid state products. Heathkit had many others, including an excellent color TV that had only one vacuum tube in it - the picture tube. I know they had solid state ham products, such as a two meter amplifier. I have no idea how they stacked up to the competition in terms of quality and value. However, since they were truly leading edge with solid state hi-fi and computer kits, among other things, I am puzzled by the assertion that Heathkit was not able to move from the vacuum tube era to solid state products. Lew K6LMP On Jan 7, 2011, at 1:44 PM, k...@baymoon.com wrote: I don't disagree with Brian's plaudits for Elecraft's focus on customer service but that wasn't the primary reason that the companies he sited went out of business. In a book entitled The Innovator's Dilemma, the author showed that large companies get caught when technologies change. Heath, Drake, Collins and others were leaders before solid-state technology advanced. They were simply not quick enough on their feet to make the switch to solid state that allowed Yaesu, Icom and Kenwood to eat their lunch. And, now, that software-defined radio has moved from edge-of-the-art to state-of-the-art, those companies are being surpassed as leaders by companies like Elecraft. Historically, leaders in one technology are not able to make the leap as quickly as new innovators who don't have the legacy baggage to drag behind them. IBM led in mainframes, but DEC and HP led in minicomputers, and so on. Nokia led in cell phones, but is having its lunch eaten by Apple, HTC, LG and Samsung in smartphones. Customer service is just one part of the complex reasons why new leaders emerge. Rob K6RB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY
I believe Heath and Drake had the first two synthesized HF amateur transceivers on the market. (SB-104 and TR-7) And both had solid-state gear before that. I don't think their problems were being late adopting new technology. IMO Heathkit went belly-up because of poor execution on a number of their designs. The SB-104 for example had multiple issues (horrible birdies, poor sensitivity, poor dynamic range, intermittent oscillations, etc.) The reports of Drake's death are greatly exaggerated. Although they no longer manufacture ham equipment the company is alive and well. Al N1AL On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 13:44 -0800, k...@baymoon.com wrote: I don't disagree with Brian's plaudits for Elecraft's focus on customer service but that wasn't the primary reason that the companies he sited went out of business. In a book entitled The Innovator's Dilemma, the author showed that large companies get caught when technologies change. Heath, Drake, Collins and others were leaders before solid-state technology advanced. They were simply not quick enough on their feet to make the switch to solid state that allowed Yaesu, Icom and Kenwood to eat their lunch. And, now, that software-defined radio has moved from edge-of-the-art to state-of-the-art, those companies are being surpassed as leaders by companies like Elecraft. Historically, leaders in one technology are not able to make the leap as quickly as new innovators who don't have the legacy baggage to drag behind them. IBM led in mainframes, but DEC and HP led in minicomputers, and so on. Nokia led in cell phones, but is having its lunch eaten by Apple, HTC, LG and Samsung in smartphones. Customer service is just one part of the complex reasons why new leaders emerge. Rob K6RB I usually dont comment on these types of forums, and invariably someone will find fault with your comments and take you to task. However; in spite of that I feel burden to share the following perspectives with this group. I have had 69 years of experience, many levels of electronic maintenance, from vacuum type electronics, in the 1950 through large scale integration using computers and digital logic. Through this time the following has happened to me. 1. I have seen the following go out of business Heathkit, Collins, Drake, and many others. As companies grew larger, they forgot their roots and those things which made their product so great. 2. I have IC 821 that was a great radio. Company after 6years has decided not to support the radio cant get parts. Solution: Throw it way and buy another radio. The same manufacture has decided not to sell another produce last year because they new they had a lot of field problems because of the complaints of the customer. Their solution was to not support the radio any more. I ask you is that customer service ? We all now the answer. 3. Some manufactures have proprietary hardware chips and software. When you have problems and they have chosen at the corporate level not to support or move support services overseas to off shore companies, what happens. We have all had this happen to us with some computer companies. It is ex-asperating. I could go on, on and on, so here is my point. Elecraft Company is doing it right. Bring jobs back from over seas back to USA. Designing a great product. It appears they wont leave you in the dark. Your support and further purchases depend on your satisfaction. So lets continue to help support in all ways to make this company stay in business. Brian Mc Inerney WB8IDY CF 989-859-9374 -- Brian McInerney WB8IDY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY
What killed Heathkit was that the Big Three were able to bring products to market that were cheaper and had more features due to mass production and, in the case of Kenwood, had a contempary and stylish product. Heath did not catch up until the early '80s and by then it was too late. To a prospectvie ham (me) looking at a Heathkit catalog from late 1980/early 1981 and seeing their ham offering that had (at least to me) an early '60s styling to it caused me to look elsewhere until they introduced an up-to-date kit in 1982 or so. That said, I did build an HW-8. But the TS-520/820/530/830 models were certainly attractive to me. Also, the Big Three owned the VHF FM market early on due to frequency synthesis and memories in a small (for the time) attractive enclosure. Even in performance oriented amateur radio styling plays a part. 73, de Nate N0NB -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] GENERAL COMMENTS FROM WB8IDY
You could say the same of me and Elecraft - I new of Elecraft's reputation and many of my club friends have K2s, but I was not happy about the looks and display of the K2 (ok, so I know better now). I was about to buy an FT-2000 when the K3 was announced - that was it for me - I put the money into the K2 on 2nd May 2007, one of the first buyers and I paid for a fully loaded K3 up front - I'm very glad I did (but it was a long wait :-) 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108 -- Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book. -Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator and writer (106-43 BC) On 7 Jan 2011, at 22:54, Nate Bargmann wrote: What killed Heathkit was that the Big Three were able to bring products to market that were cheaper and had more features due to mass production and, in the case of Kenwood, had a contempary and stylish product. Heath did not catch up until the early '80s and by then it was too late. To a prospectvie ham (me) looking at a Heathkit catalog from late 1980/early 1981 and seeing their ham offering that had (at least to me) an early '60s styling to it caused me to look elsewhere until they introduced an up-to-date kit in 1982 or so. That said, I did build an HW-8. But the TS-520/820/530/830 models were certainly attractive to me. Also, the Big Three owned the VHF FM market early on due to frequency synthesis and memories in a small (for the time) attractive enclosure. Even in performance oriented amateur radio styling plays a part. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
