Re: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; (More Thorough Documentation
After the perfect manual has been written in English, a useful next step IMHO would be to have the manual translated properly into some other language(s). Expensive yes, but there must be a large number of Elecraft's customers, and potential customers, who have difficulty with English. A judgement of cost vs. return of course. The operative word is "properly". 73, Geoff GM4ESD On Wednesday, December 08, 2010, at 1:37 AM, wrote: > H, I wonder why one of you guys that know how it should done, don't go > ahead and write the perfect manual. (Seriously) Perhaps Elecraft would buy > it. Or this could be your donation to your fellow K3 owners. It would save > a lot of space on the reflector too. Only those who can't read would have > questions. 73 George/W2BPI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; (More Thorough Documentation
Camera owner's manuals are usually pretty poor, and as a result there's a pretty healthy aftermarket of "How to Use Your __" books out there. Any one camera sells more in a month than all the K3s out there so no one's gonna get rich or anything. It's still a worthwhile endeavour though. 73 - Ken, VE3HLS --- On Tue, 12/7/10, w2b...@aol.com wrote: > From: w2b...@aol.com > Subject: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; (More Thorough Documentation > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Date: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 8:37 PM > H, I wonder why one of you guys > that know how it should done, don't go > ahead and write the perfect manual. (Seriously) Perhaps > Elecraft would buy > it. Or this could be your donation to your fellow K3 > owners. It would save > a lot of space on the reflector too. Only those who > can't read would have > questions. 73 George/W2BPI > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; (More Thorough Documentation
Or set up a wiki and let it be a community effort. 73, Jim - W4BQP K2 #2268 On 12/7/2010 8:37 PM, w2b...@aol.com wrote: > H, I wonder why one of you guys that know how it should done, don't go > ahead and write the perfect manual. (Seriously) Perhaps Elecraft would buy > it. Or this could be your donation to your fellow K3 owners. It would save > a lot of space on the reflector too. Only those who can't read would have > questions. 73 George/W2BPI > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; (More Thorough Documentation)
Just my 2 cents on manuals. The N1MM, Logger32, Elecraft, et al all could use improvements. My suggestion is to write comments on the sides of each page (or somewhere), and when you think you are proficient at whatever you are doing, send them to each institution involved (scan, Xerox, whatever). Because they can't possiby guess at everyone's mind thinking process. Instruction manuals need feedback all the time from the users. We the users need to close the loop if we want the product in question to suceed. When I first turned on the K3 after completing the kit, I said this going to take some getting used to. The manual could have softened the blow. 73 Hardy N7RT - Original Message - From: "Jim Brown" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; (More Thorough Documentation) > On 12/7/2010 9:16 AM, David Gilbert wrote: >> there is >> simply no question that the K3 user manual is a horrible piece of >> documentation. There is a lot of information there, but it is >> fragmented and terribly organized. I could understand how the manual >> might be weak coming out of the chute, but at this stage in the K3 >> development I think there is very little excuse for such a poorly >> structured reference. Whether in printed or pdf form it's just awful, >> and I fully agree that it fails miserably as a marketing tool to attract >> potential buyers. The K3 has an unwarranted (in my opinion) reputation >> as an overly complex rig to set up and operate, but the user manual only >> accentuates that perception. > > I strongly agree. > > 73, Jim K9YC > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; (More Thorough Documentation)
On 12/7/2010 9:16 AM, David Gilbert wrote: > there is > simply no question that the K3 user manual is a horrible piece of > documentation. There is a lot of information there, but it is > fragmented and terribly organized. I could understand how the manual > might be weak coming out of the chute, but at this stage in the K3 > development I think there is very little excuse for such a poorly > structured reference. Whether in printed or pdf form it's just awful, > and I fully agree that it fails miserably as a marketing tool to attract > potential buyers. The K3 has an unwarranted (in my opinion) reputation > as an overly complex rig to set up and operate, but the user manual only > accentuates that perception. I strongly agree. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; (More Thorough Documentation)
Sam, The short version of what you say below is, in my words, "If I can't carry it to the thrown with me it's of no help." However, it does seem that there are book sellers and writers out there that are diligently trying to solve my problem. I love my B&N NookBook ;o) and have the Elecraft manual PDF's loaded into it. 73, Tom Childers Radio Amateur N5GE Licensed since 1976 QCWA Member 35102 ARRL Life Member On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 05:24:56 -0800 (PST), samuel ernst-fortin wrote: >Personally, I like and will forever prefer books, where I can hold it or put >it >down, annotate and dog-ear and mark and flag pages, navigate it as I wish and >see the totality of the topic subject matter, gauge it by it's physical >dimensions. I don't find the "massively hyper-linked, ever-changing, >fragmented >and presented in many silly windows" means of communicating technical >information nearly as effective. > >I prefer books. :) >Sam, KJ4VPI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; (More Thorough Documentation)
I've owned my K3 for roughly two years, use it a lot, and I love it. I think I know how most of it works and how to set it up, but there is simply no question that the K3 user manual is a horrible piece of documentation. There is a lot of information there, but it is fragmented and terribly organized. I could understand how the manual might be weak coming out of the chute, but at this stage in the K3 development I think there is very little excuse for such a poorly structured reference. Whether in printed or pdf form it's just awful, and I fully agree that it fails miserably as a marketing tool to attract potential buyers. The K3 has an unwarranted (in my opinion) reputation as an overly complex rig to set up and operate, but the user manual only accentuates that perception. 73, Dave AB7E On 12/7/2010 9:26 AM, Don Nelson wrote: > > For those in a decision making position on a product line, the thought > of more sales would be most welcome. > > How many HAMs have not wanted to buy a K3, for example, because it is > too complicated? Now there is a challenge. The K3 is complicated and > those would-be buyers are correct in their assessment. Now enter a > really outstanding tech writer. Some who who has the knack and a sense > of what is needed in a document to compel the reader to try the product. > The user manual is available to anyone who wants to download it from the > web – a wise marketing tool. If the user manual was well enough done, a > would-be HAM would learn how the product works, in detail, and enjoy the > process of learning about that product. > > The current K3 user manual is more of a reference manual. It is compact > and efficient in presenting information without the inefficiency of > examples and explanation. A user manual would be much more than that and > would have the luxury of including examples and comparisons of different > settings with explanations of how and why a feature works the way it does. > > I can believe that at least 250 more K3s would be sold if there was a > good K3 user manual and other marketing documentation (user useful > material). If my calculator is correct, that would be on the order of > $1,000,000 in additional sales. Now if I were in that decision making > position , I surely would sit up and do more than take notice. > > Don, N0YE > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; (More Thorough Documentation)
Don, I wager you are underestimating. I would bet the number of additional sales would be 1,000+, HEAVY on the plus. Also I fear that MANY people monitor the noise on this list and go on to other radios after monitoring for only a short time. 73, Another Don, WB5HAK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; (More Thorough Documentation)
On 12/7/2010 6:24 AM, samuel ernst-fortin wrote: > Bill, > FWIW: my background is EE with a minor in Industrial Psych (specifically Human > Factors / Ergonomics / Usability Engineering). One book which resonated with > me > as an engineer is "Psychology of Everyday Things". In it, the author discusses > mental models, and those of the developer vs. those of the user. When those > mental models fail to intersect or the mental model of the user is inaccurate > (both will often be the case with a complex system) - you have the problem > being > described by the various users here. > > This is a field of study that gets a lot of attention in the Aviation > community > with Flight Management Systems and highly complicated flight deck automation. > > To be more terse and to this point: the mental model of the developers as to > how > the K3 rig features are designed to work and be operated for maximum > performance > hasn't been effectively communicated or fostered in the user community. This > is > not a situation specific to the K3 of course. In some respects the rig's > features drives the operators actions instead of the other way around... and > people are fumbling around with them till they seem to get something that > "works". > > Luckily, this situation can be cured. A K3 is no Boeing 787 Flight Management > System. > > As to "nobody reads books", while I think this is true of some segment of the > population (in engineering school - I knew many people who never read their > textbooks... turned in pristine books as used)... I still have mine and often > refer to them at home and at work - that "model" doesn't accurately describe > the > HAM community as a whole. > > > Personally, I like and will forever prefer books, where I can hold it or put > it > down, annotate and dog-ear and mark and flag pages, navigate it as I wish and > see the totality of the topic subject matter, gauge it by it's physical > dimensions. I don't find the "massively hyper-linked, ever-changing, > fragmented > and presented in many silly windows" means of communicating technical > information nearly as effective. > > I prefer books. :) > Sam, KJ4VPI > > > For those in a decision making position on a product line, the thought of more sales would be most welcome. How many HAMs have not wanted to buy a K3, for example, because it is too complicated? Now there is a challenge. The K3 is complicated and those would-be buyers are correct in their assessment. Now enter a really outstanding tech writer. Some who who has the knack and a sense of what is needed in a document to compel the reader to try the product. The user manual is available to anyone who wants to download it from the web – a wise marketing tool. If the user manual was well enough done, a would-be HAM would learn how the product works, in detail, and enjoy the process of learning about that product. The current K3 user manual is more of a reference manual. It is compact and efficient in presenting information without the inefficiency of examples and explanation. A user manual would be much more than that and would have the luxury of including examples and comparisons of different settings with explanations of how and why a feature works the way it does. I can believe that at least 250 more K3s would be sold if there was a good K3 user manual and other marketing documentation (user useful material). If my calculator is correct, that would be on the order of $1,000,000 in additional sales. Now if I were in that decision making position , I surely would sit up and do more than take notice. Don, N0YE __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; (More Thorough Documentation)
Bill, FWIW: my background is EE with a minor in Industrial Psych (specifically Human Factors / Ergonomics / Usability Engineering). One book which resonated with me as an engineer is "Psychology of Everyday Things". In it, the author discusses mental models, and those of the developer vs. those of the user. When those mental models fail to intersect or the mental model of the user is inaccurate (both will often be the case with a complex system) - you have the problem being described by the various users here. This is a field of study that gets a lot of attention in the Aviation community with Flight Management Systems and highly complicated flight deck automation. To be more terse and to this point: the mental model of the developers as to how the K3 rig features are designed to work and be operated for maximum performance hasn't been effectively communicated or fostered in the user community. This is not a situation specific to the K3 of course. In some respects the rig's features drives the operators actions instead of the other way around... and people are fumbling around with them till they seem to get something that "works". Luckily, this situation can be cured. A K3 is no Boeing 787 Flight Management System. As to "nobody reads books", while I think this is true of some segment of the population (in engineering school - I knew many people who never read their textbooks... turned in pristine books as used)... I still have mine and often refer to them at home and at work - that "model" doesn't accurately describe the HAM community as a whole. Personally, I like and will forever prefer books, where I can hold it or put it down, annotate and dog-ear and mark and flag pages, navigate it as I wish and see the totality of the topic subject matter, gauge it by it's physical dimensions. I don't find the "massively hyper-linked, ever-changing, fragmented and presented in many silly windows" means of communicating technical information nearly as effective. I prefer books. :) Sam, KJ4VPI From: Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO To: Don Cunningham ; Wayne Burdick ; n...@contesting.com Cc: Elecraft List Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 10:37:41 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Need for advice was; noise reduction Don et al., As a pro technical writer, I should like to address myself to your point. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
