Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
OK Don, well it must be controlling the gain of the first IF amp then, and that must be important to the receiver's noise figure. All I know is that turning down the RF gain reduces S/N (on my K3 at least). And this wasn't the case in f/w 3.27. Graham - Original Message - From: "Don Wilhelm" To: "Graham Kimbell (G3TCT)" Cc: "Elecraft reflector" Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver > Graham, > > BUT - the K3 "RF Gain" control ONLY controls the IF gain - it does not > reduce the gain of the receiver front end - in that respect, the K3 is > similar to those other receivers that you referred to.. The preamp and > attenuator DO change the front end gain. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > Graham Kimbell (G3TCT) wrote: > > This is a major irritation that has only surfaced with recent firmware > > changes - the problem wasn't there in f/w 3.27. Other receivers I've used > > keep the S/N constant with the rf gain backed off presumably because they > > are reducing the IF gain further back in the rx. > > > > > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Graham, BUT - the K3 "RF Gain" control ONLY controls the IF gain - it does not reduce the gain of the receiver front end - in that respect, the K3 is similar to those other receivers that you referred to.. The preamp and attenuator DO change the front end gain. 73, Don W3FPR Graham Kimbell (G3TCT) wrote: > This is a major irritation that has only surfaced with recent firmware > changes - the problem wasn't there in f/w 3.27. Other receivers I've used > keep the S/N constant with the rf gain backed off presumably because they > are reducing the IF gain further back in the rx. > > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
This statement (If you run RF GAIN wide open the receiver will sound noisy and you are limiting your dynamic range) is only true for the bands where the band noise is high, but on the higher bands (eg 6m), the band noise is only a little higher than the receiver noise (and maybe not at all if you don't have an external preamp). And on my K3 (as reported previously with f/w 3.63) backing off the rf gain *reduces* the S/N because the front end noise no longer overcomes the IF/AF noise. There's lots of noise generated in the later stages of the rx, which can still be heard with the rf gain backed off. This does not appear to be a function of the AGC settings. This is a major irritation that has only surfaced with recent firmware changes - the problem wasn't there in f/w 3.27. Other receivers I've used keep the S/N constant with the rf gain backed off presumably because they are reducing the IF gain further back in the rx. And let's be clear I'm NOT talking about 160 or 80m where the band noise may be many dB above the receiver front end noise. Graham --- Previous comments include:- > If you run RF GAIN wide open the receiver will sound noisy and you are limiting your dynamic range. and >I find it hard to believe that the K3 receiver is actually noisy, in the sense that it is generating noise internally that makes it harder to hear weak signals compared to another RX. Those MDS figures can't lie, surely? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
If it's weak signal work where this is being noticed, one test of the overall noise floor is to run the headphone output from several rigs, individually switched into a PC sound card with a FFT software program running. The AF outputs would require normalizing at various signal-strength levels across receivers with say a 1 kHz tone for wider bandwidths and perhaps 500 Hz tone for narrower modes. For SSB, 1 kHz should represent an area of the IF and AF passband where minimal attenuation occurs for any receiver. Even if the IF selectivity is not identical across the receivers, the FFT software will still produce some meaningful results. The test should include AGC on and AGC off settings. Paul, W9AC - Original Message - From: "Jim McCook" To: Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver > Juergen and others. > > I'm glad to see this thread get so much attention; it's about time this > issue was brought into focus. In spite of my huge appreciation for this > radio, I find it to be very noisy and fatiguing to listen to, especially > with weak signals. > > I have, like others, tried all the adjustments mentioned, but with no > real improvement. I can switch to my FT-1000D for relief when this gets > to the point of being difficult. I find myself doing this more and more > often. I used the K-3 in CQWW SSB and CW, and enjoyed the great > features and ease of use, especially using the N1MM settings to access > the KDVR audio during the SSB contest. But... all these great features > have come at some cost dealing with the receiver noise. Even the EQ > settings are a tradeoff because the noise follows boost in the low range > for CW (I listen at 350hz). We still need separate EQ settings for SSB, > too. > > I'm also wondering if the DSP board upgrade for low range will help to > solve some of this problem > > The RX MIX audio arrangement in the FT-1000D is still far superior to > the K-3, also. The newest options for this helped, but the Yaesu is > still better in dual receiving mode with the balance control. > > Jim > W6YA > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Juergen and others. I'm glad to see this thread get so much attention; it's about time this issue was brought into focus. In spite of my huge appreciation for this radio, I find it to be very noisy and fatiguing to listen to, especially with weak signals. I have, like others, tried all the adjustments mentioned, but with no real improvement. I can switch to my FT-1000D for relief when this gets to the point of being difficult. I find myself doing this more and more often. I used the K-3 in CQWW SSB and CW, and enjoyed the great features and ease of use, especially using the N1MM settings to access the KDVR audio during the SSB contest. But... all these great features have come at some cost dealing with the receiver noise. Even the EQ settings are a tradeoff because the noise follows boost in the low range for CW (I listen at 350hz). We still need separate EQ settings for SSB, too. I'm also wondering if the DSP board upgrade for low range will help to solve some of this problem The RX MIX audio arrangement in the FT-1000D is still far superior to the K-3, also. The newest options for this helped, but the Yaesu is still better in dual receiving mode with the balance control. Jim W6YA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
The other thing that helps (and helps a LOT) is to reduce the RF Gain until the band noise is at a lower level - just barely present. Yes, it will likely be different for each band, but can be quickly set by listening to a spot with no signals and listen for the "frying noise" to be barely perceivable. Turning on the attenuator is also helpful. Right now, I am listening to an 80 meter local roundtable with the attenuator on, the RF Gain at 2 o'clock and the AF Gain at 9 o'clock. For those who are hesitant to do reduce the RF Gain because the S-meter changes when the RF Gain is reduced, the K3 has an absolute (ABS) setting for the S-meter, and you have an S-meter that is not influenced by the RF Gain nor the preamp nor ATT. 73, Don W3FPR chen dave wrote: > My suggestion: > 1, upgrade to lastest f/w > 2, tune the center of the passband to 1.4~1.45k(very important) > > Hope those will helps! > > all the best! > > David,BA4RF > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
My suggestion: 1, upgrade to lastest f/w 2, tune the center of the passband to 1.4~1.45k(very important) Hope those will helps! all the best! David,BA4RF 2009/12/17 juergen piezo > Hi James > > This has been my impression for the last 2 years when using our clubs K3's > > I decided to do a comparison with several radios. > > FT1000MP > TS870S > FT1000D > TS850S > TS930S > > If you blind folded yourself and did not look at the S-meter and switched > between the radios, the K3 was always much more noisy. I did this test on 20 > meters and 40 meters. There is no doubt that the K3's correctly calibrated > S-meter shows more activity. However when you dont look at the S-meter and > just listen you can hear this apparent greater "noise activity" > > What is interesting if there is just signs of a starting thunder storm or > light QRN, the K3 seems to make the QRN sound much worst. However when the > QRN is very heavy its as bad as any other radio. I did also play with AGC > setting and this result was always repeatable. I thought it was the AGC > doing this, however I changed the slope and it appears to be the same. > > There seems to be a mid range window in the K3 that makes the radio sound > much more lively. Above and below this windows thresholds it appears to be > normal in every other respect. > > One thing thats very obvious with the K3 is that you need to play with the > receiver EQ all the time. The difference can be very stunning when you get > it right. > > There can be no one EQ setting that is good for weak and general purpose > listening for both CW and SSB. The K3 on a flat EQ response is poor at very > weak signal SSB work. However, when you adjust the EQ it seems to bring the > radio back to life. > > The K3 needs a default setting thats similar to most analog radios, a > defined bandpass filter that needs no EQ adjustment for CW and SSB. The K3 > for some reason needs a lot of highs and treble to sound decent. Even the > CW note comes alive with real body like a analog radio when the EQ is set > to high /treble boost. My belief is that most who say that the K3 sounds > poor is for this reason. However when you boost the highs the receiver is > very tiring on your ears. So you cant seem to win here > > There is something strange about how the DSP and the receiver chain works. > It sounds great with strong normal signals on a quiet band. I do want to try > a SCAF filter or some other audio filter to see if I can improve things. I > dont have hearing problems and generally i try and leave the EQ set flat. > However this has proved problematic for me, especially on weak SSB and CW. > > I am a casual K3 user and I dont own a K3, however I have spent enough time > operating our clubs K3's which have a broad range of serial numbers many > factory assembled. I would like to try and get the new DSP board to see if > that changes much. Maybe it is because I am a casual K3 user that I notice > all these quirks, these probably may disappear if i used a K3 every day. In > the meantime I prefer any old analog contest radio at the moment. > > John > > --- On Wed, 12/16/09, James Sarte wrote: > > > From: James Sarte > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver > > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 9:42 PM > > Hi Mike, > > > > I've fiddled with all of the AGC, PRE, ATT, RF, and DSP > > options on my K3, > > and still experience a relatively high noise floor - at > > least compared to an > > FT-1000 side by side. > > > > I never gave it much thought until these subject came up on > > the reflector. > > > > Cheers, > > James K2QI > > > > -Original Message- > > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] > > On Behalf Of Mike Harris > > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:15 PM > > To: Bill W4ZV; elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver > > > > G'day, > > > > The simple fact is that the faithful will always suggest > > that the K3 > > hears more, is more sensitive or is more transparent to > > band noise > > etc etc. Also you have to fiddle with the AGC, PRE, > > ATT and RF gain > > whereas other radios just sound nicer out of the box. > > I don't have > > a problem with fiddling with AGC and equaliser parameters > > to tailor > > the receive to my liking, but to have to do it to make it > > sound > > acceptable is another thing altogethe
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Hi James This has been my impression for the last 2 years when using our clubs K3's I decided to do a comparison with several radios. FT1000MP TS870S FT1000D TS850S TS930S If you blind folded yourself and did not look at the S-meter and switched between the radios, the K3 was always much more noisy. I did this test on 20 meters and 40 meters. There is no doubt that the K3's correctly calibrated S-meter shows more activity. However when you dont look at the S-meter and just listen you can hear this apparent greater "noise activity" What is interesting if there is just signs of a starting thunder storm or light QRN, the K3 seems to make the QRN sound much worst. However when the QRN is very heavy its as bad as any other radio. I did also play with AGC setting and this result was always repeatable. I thought it was the AGC doing this, however I changed the slope and it appears to be the same. There seems to be a mid range window in the K3 that makes the radio sound much more lively. Above and below this windows thresholds it appears to be normal in every other respect. One thing thats very obvious with the K3 is that you need to play with the receiver EQ all the time. The difference can be very stunning when you get it right. There can be no one EQ setting that is good for weak and general purpose listening for both CW and SSB. The K3 on a flat EQ response is poor at very weak signal SSB work. However, when you adjust the EQ it seems to bring the radio back to life. The K3 needs a default setting thats similar to most analog radios, a defined bandpass filter that needs no EQ adjustment for CW and SSB. The K3 for some reason needs a lot of highs and treble to sound decent. Even the CW note comes alive with real body like a analog radio when the EQ is set to high /treble boost. My belief is that most who say that the K3 sounds poor is for this reason. However when you boost the highs the receiver is very tiring on your ears. So you cant seem to win here There is something strange about how the DSP and the receiver chain works. It sounds great with strong normal signals on a quiet band. I do want to try a SCAF filter or some other audio filter to see if I can improve things. I dont have hearing problems and generally i try and leave the EQ set flat. However this has proved problematic for me, especially on weak SSB and CW. I am a casual K3 user and I dont own a K3, however I have spent enough time operating our clubs K3's which have a broad range of serial numbers many factory assembled. I would like to try and get the new DSP board to see if that changes much. Maybe it is because I am a casual K3 user that I notice all these quirks, these probably may disappear if i used a K3 every day. In the meantime I prefer any old analog contest radio at the moment. John --- On Wed, 12/16/09, James Sarte wrote: > From: James Sarte > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 9:42 PM > Hi Mike, > > I've fiddled with all of the AGC, PRE, ATT, RF, and DSP > options on my K3, > and still experience a relatively high noise floor - at > least compared to an > FT-1000 side by side. > > I never gave it much thought until these subject came up on > the reflector. > > Cheers, > James K2QI > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] > On Behalf Of Mike Harris > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:15 PM > To: Bill W4ZV; elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver > > G'day, > > The simple fact is that the faithful will always suggest > that the K3 > hears more, is more sensitive or is more transparent to > band noise > etc etc. Also you have to fiddle with the AGC, PRE, > ATT and RF gain > whereas other radios just sound nicer out of the box. > I don't have > a problem with fiddling with AGC and equaliser parameters > to tailor > the receive to my liking, but to have to do it to make it > sound > acceptable is another thing altogether. > > There is an often referred to AF filter module which > installs on the > main DSP board and apparently cuts out a lot of unnecessary > high > frequency audio. Sadly though often referred to it > just isn't being > made available despite very positive comment from some of > those who > have field tested it. > > The KAF2 filter for the K2 made all the difference in the > world to > listening to SSB. > > Regards, > > Mike VP8NO > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mai
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Hi My k3. Must be be one of the newest issued, sn 3759. Delivered by ups Monday this week. Finished the build last night, the 2 nd rx being the last item to go in. Just 2 items missing and wud you believe they are the 238mm zinc screws which bolt down the sub rx L shape cover!!! Dsp es Aux board newone firmware 2.49 dated 10 December 2009. I have only briefly listened on 20m cw yday, the rx, without set-up seemed pretty lively. I'm just about doing the final CAL on the radio now b4 i can let myself loose on cw es see what this baby is really like. Ken..G0ORH Sent from my iPhone On 16 Dec 2009, at 23:01, Mike wrote: > Thanks Greg - > Mine is 3539. There's a post on down the list that gives a link to a > pic > of the rev. C board. > > 73, Mike > Greg - AB7R wrote: >> One of my K3s is #3459 and it has the updated DSP board. I think >> it was right >> >> around there when they started. >> >> >> >> - >> >> 73, >> >> Greg - AB7R >> >> Whidbey Island WA >> >> NA-065 >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed Dec 16 14:36 , Mike sent: >> >> >> >> >>> Any idea what serial number the upgrade started shipping with? Or >>> a way >>> >> >> >>> to determine if I have it already? >>> > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Hi Mike, I've fiddled with all of the AGC, PRE, ATT, RF, and DSP options on my K3, and still experience a relatively high noise floor - at least compared to an FT-1000 side by side. I never gave it much thought until these subject came up on the reflector. Cheers, James K2QI -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Harris Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:15 PM To: Bill W4ZV; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver G'day, The simple fact is that the faithful will always suggest that the K3 hears more, is more sensitive or is more transparent to band noise etc etc. Also you have to fiddle with the AGC, PRE, ATT and RF gain whereas other radios just sound nicer out of the box. I don't have a problem with fiddling with AGC and equaliser parameters to tailor the receive to my liking, but to have to do it to make it sound acceptable is another thing altogether. There is an often referred to AF filter module which installs on the main DSP board and apparently cuts out a lot of unnecessary high frequency audio. Sadly though often referred to it just isn't being made available despite very positive comment from some of those who have field tested it. The KAF2 filter for the K2 made all the difference in the world to listening to SSB. Regards, Mike VP8NO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Ditto here as well, and that's comparing my K3 #2730 to a stock FT-1000. Wow, I thought it was just me. I never gave it much of a second thought, and just attributed the difference in noise floor/signal peaks to a more sensitive receiver. I've worked long pileups from 4U1UN and the FT-1000, and I don't recall ever having as much noise-related fatigue as I get when I use the K3. Please don't get me wrong; I'm not bashing the K3. It just seems the K3's noise characteristics seem stronger and perhaps a tad harsher than what comes out of the Yaesu. I hope that makes sense... 73 de James K2QI -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Harris Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:33 PM To: Elecraft Email Subject: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver Dick, I've had the same experience as you describe. You will get some explanations here on the reflector that sort of make sense so I will not try to repeat them. What it comes down to for me is there is less usable S meter range and amplified background noise to contend with. A great receiver but having to listen to that background noise is disquieting. I think the noise/S meter relationship needs a solid review from engineering aimed at putting a bit of a knee at the bottom of the scale and in the process dropping the apparent noise level. A supersensitive receiver is great but when all it's doing is digging out noise it's of little value. I agree NR and related controls help a bit on the noise but it doesn't address the underlying situation. Many of us over-the-hill folks have a sensitivity to noise that younger people don't have so it may be hard for them to understand and appreciate our concern. Have a good day and 73. Jim, W0EM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Same here. I ordered and got confirmation of payment but no hint of if or when it would ever ship so I sent an inquiry and Lisa said about 2 weeks. Maybe by Christmas? Can't seem to get an answer about that filter module but I can see no reason to omit it. Steve N4LQ n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: "Merv Schweigert" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver > Thanks for the info, last I had heard the board was not part of the new > DSP > board, but that was last month. I placed an order Nov 25 and have not > heard > a peep as yet about shipping or backorder or?? figured they were behind > in > shipping. > 73 Merv KH7C >> I'm waiting on my new DSP board to arrive and HOPE it has that filter >> module >> installed. Last time I checked, there was a 2 week delay on shipping. >> >> Steve >> N4LQ >> n...@carolina.rr.com >> - Original Message - >> From: "Lyle Johnson" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver >> >> >> >>>> There is an often referred to AF filter module which installs on the >>>> main DSP board ... >>>> >>> My understanding is that this is part of the DSP board swap upgrade, >>> and is in currently shipping K3s. >>> >>> But I've been known to be wrong! >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> Lyle KK7P >>> __ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.716 / Virus Database: 270.14.110/2568 - Release Date: >> 12/16/09 >> 03:02:00 >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.716 / Virus Database: 270.14.110/2568 - Release Date: 12/16/09 03:02:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
I would like to hear more about the AF Filter Module. I didn't have any initial interest in the DSP board upgrade but maybe I would reconsider if I knew what the AF Filter Module did. Maybe someone who has upgraded could comment. 73, Mike K2MK Lyle Johnson Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:45:58 -0800 > There is an often referred to AF filter module which installs on the > main DSP board ... My understanding is that this is part of the DSP board swap upgrade, and is in currently shipping K3s. But I've been known to be wrong! 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Thanks for the info, last I had heard the board was not part of the new DSP board, but that was last month. I placed an order Nov 25 and have not heard a peep as yet about shipping or backorder or?? figured they were behind in shipping. 73 Merv KH7C > I'm waiting on my new DSP board to arrive and HOPE it has that filter module > installed. Last time I checked, there was a 2 week delay on shipping. > > Steve > N4LQ > n...@carolina.rr.com > - Original Message - > From: "Lyle Johnson" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver > > > >>> There is an often referred to AF filter module which installs on the >>> main DSP board ... >>> >> My understanding is that this is part of the DSP board swap upgrade, >> and is in currently shipping K3s. >> >> But I've been known to be wrong! >> >> 73, >> >> Lyle KK7P >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.716 / Virus Database: 270.14.110/2568 - Release Date: 12/16/09 > 03:02:00 > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Thanks Greg - Mine is 3539. There's a post on down the list that gives a link to a pic of the rev. C board. 73, Mike Greg - AB7R wrote: > One of my K3s is #3459 and it has the updated DSP board. I think it was > right > > around there when they started. > > > > - > > 73, > > Greg - AB7R > > Whidbey Island WA > > NA-065 > > > > > > On Wed Dec 16 14:36 , Mike sent: > > > > >> Any idea what serial number the upgrade started shipping with? Or a way >> > > >> to determine if I have it already? >> __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
One of my K3s is #3459 and it has the updated DSP board. I think it was right around there when they started. - 73, Greg - AB7R Whidbey Island WA NA-065 On Wed Dec 16 14:36 , Mike sent: >Any idea what serial number the upgrade started shipping with? Or a way >to determine if I have it already? > >Thanks, >Mike NF4L > >Lyle Johnson wrote: >>> There is an often referred to AF filter module which installs on the >>> main DSP board ... >>> >> >> My understanding is that this is part of the DSP board swap upgrade, >> and is in currently shipping K3s. >> >> But I've been known to be wrong! >> >> 73, >> >> Lyle KK7P >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')">Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> > > >__ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')">Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Any idea what serial number the upgrade started shipping with? Or a way to determine if I have it already? Thanks, Mike NF4L Lyle Johnson wrote: >> There is an often referred to AF filter module which installs on the >> main DSP board ... >> > > My understanding is that this is part of the DSP board swap upgrade, > and is in currently shipping K3s. > > But I've been known to be wrong! > > 73, > > Lyle KK7P > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Dick: You gave us the version of the K3 Utility. What version of firmware is in the K3. You will need to have the K3 Utility on and the K3 on with the pc connected to the K3. It should then show up in the tab for "firmware" below the section labeled Firmware version. Click on "Check Versions Now" If you see dashes in "Installed.. " column your PC is not talking to the K3. If much lower than 3.xx it is way out of date. Present version is 3.68. Click on "Send all Firmware to K3" if the K3 utility shows less than 3.68 installed. You can also determine the version of the K3 Firmware by holding down the "MENU" button (CONFIG) on the K3 and selecting FW REVS with the "B" VFO knob. You may need to also rotate the "A" VFO knob to select uC so that it shows the main microprocessor FW version. KE0X RLVZ wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I'd appreciate your thoughts as to why my K-3 receiver is so noisy. I'd > really like to make this radio perform. The radio is Serial #603F > (factory > model) running 1.2.10.27. I purchased the unit from the original owner a > couple of months ago so I don't know if it's always been this noisy but I > do > know it was the same before I recently updated software to 1.2.10.27. > The > radio is in immaculate condition and was never used mobile or bounced > around. > (it's a beautiful radio that looks like new!) > > I say the receiver is noisy based upon listening to dozens of different > signals on: 40/20/15 m. and by doing numerous A/B comparison tests. The > comparison tests were done with the K-3 Pre-Amp turned Off. (and tried > with ATT > on and off but mostly on to reduce noise). > > Radio 1: Yaesu FT-1000-MP w/AF Mod. A signal is peaking S-8 and with the > no signal noise level is averaging S-1. Therefore, the signal is peaking > aprx. 7 s-units above the noise based upon the MP s-meter and the signal > sounds > loud and is way above the noise level. Now I switch to the K-3: > > Radio 2: K-3 tuned to the same signal with PreAmp Off and is peaking S-7 > but the no signal noise level is noisy S-4 to S-5. Therefore, the signal > is > peaking only about 2 or 3 s-units above the noise level based upon the K-3 > s-meter. The result is that the MP has aprx. a 4 s-unit S/N ratio > advantage. > > > Thoughts: I realize that all s-meters read differently and the fact that > the MP s-meter shows a 4 s-unit stronger signal above the noise level > doesn't > mean alot. But the fact is that the signal on the MP sounds MUCH louder > with alot more headroom above the noise level. The K-3 receiver sounds so > noisy even with the S-7 signal that it isn't enjoyable listening to and > that's > why I ran the comparisons because I couldn't stand all the noise. > Switching > on the K-3's NR, ATT, and/or adjusting the RF Gain does help some but the > signal still sounds noisy compared to the MP. > > Based upon "Reviews" of the K-3 I believe that I must have an unusual "K-3 > noisy receiver" problem. > > I'd sure appreciate your ideas on how I can get a better S/N ratio on my > K-3. > > Thanks! > > 73, > Dick- K9OM > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Noisy-K-3-Receiver-tp4173832p4177370.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
I'm waiting on my new DSP board to arrive and HOPE it has that filter module installed. Last time I checked, there was a 2 week delay on shipping. Steve N4LQ n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: "Lyle Johnson" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver > >> There is an often referred to AF filter module which installs on the >> main DSP board ... > > My understanding is that this is part of the DSP board swap upgrade, > and is in currently shipping K3s. > > But I've been known to be wrong! > > 73, > > Lyle KK7P > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.716 / Virus Database: 270.14.110/2568 - Release Date: 12/16/09 03:02:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Is this absolutely certain or not?? 73 - no3m Mike Harris wrote: > G'day Lyle, > > Interesting news. I will discover if this is so in the next couple > of weeks, the new DSP board is in the post. > > Regards, > > Mike VP8NO > > - Original Message - > From: "Lyle Johnson" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:45 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver > > > >>> There is an often referred to AF filter module which installs on >>> the >>> main DSP board ... >>> >> My understanding is that this is part of the DSP board swap >> upgrade, >> and is in currently shipping K3s. >> >> But I've been known to be wrong! >> >> 73, >> >> Lyle KK7P >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
G'day Lyle, Interesting news. I will discover if this is so in the next couple of weeks, the new DSP board is in the post. Regards, Mike VP8NO - Original Message - From: "Lyle Johnson" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver > >> There is an often referred to AF filter module which installs on >> the >> main DSP board ... > > My understanding is that this is part of the DSP board swap > upgrade, > and is in currently shipping K3s. > > But I've been known to be wrong! > > 73, > > Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
> There is an often referred to AF filter module which installs on the > main DSP board ... My understanding is that this is part of the DSP board swap upgrade, and is in currently shipping K3s. But I've been known to be wrong! 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
> CONFIG: AGC THR may be set too high. Try a lower setting. I agree with Bill. He may also want to experiment with other AGC settings like AGC-F, AGC-S, AGC SLP and AGC HLD and AGC DCY. I found exactly what was described until I changed the AGC threshold/slope and equally important, the AGC recovery times to less aggressive values. I suspect that aggressive AGC values (even in default) may be causing the perceived increase in noise. He may want to prove to himself that the K3 is quite listenable with substantial audio dynamic range by changing to less aggressive AGC values. Then, increase accordingly. The default values are specified in the owner's manual so there's always the ability to re-set values if originals are forgotten. My AGC recovery times are set for minimum and for me, that's adequate, even under the fast setting. On some professional DSP-based audio processors, manufacturers have taken all the processing values, combined them into a single "less/more" virtual control so that all processing parameters work in tandem with each other. This works well for the person first opening the box and having a single control to get you 90% of the way there. Then, optimize the individual controls to best match various operating conditions. In the case of the K3, that's something like 8 menu controls dedicated to AGC, including the AF limiter function. Not everyone who purchases a transceiver is adept at AGC management. Paul, W9AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
G'day, The simple fact is that the faithful will always suggest that the K3 hears more, is more sensitive or is more transparent to band noise etc etc. Also you have to fiddle with the AGC, PRE, ATT and RF gain whereas other radios just sound nicer out of the box. I don't have a problem with fiddling with AGC and equaliser parameters to tailor the receive to my liking, but to have to do it to make it sound acceptable is another thing altogether. There is an often referred to AF filter module which installs on the main DSP board and apparently cuts out a lot of unnecessary high frequency audio. Sadly though often referred to it just isn't being made available despite very positive comment from some of those who have field tested it. The KAF2 filter for the K2 made all the difference in the world to listening to SSB. Regards, Mike VP8NO - Original Message - From: "Bill W4ZV" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver > > >>>>Thoughts: I realize that all s-meters read differently and the >>>>fact that > the MP s-meter shows a 4 s-unit stronger signal above the noise > level > doesn't > mean alot. > > Correct, 4 S-units on an MP meter at that level is probably more > like 2 real > S-units (10-12 dB). See below: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@mailman.qth.net/msg63910.html > >>>>But the fact is that the signal on the MP sounds MUCH louder > with alot more headroom above the noise level. The K-3 receiver > sounds so > noisy even with the S-7 signal that it isn't enjoyable listening > to and > that's > why I ran the comparisons because I couldn't stand all the noise. > Switching > on the K-3's NR, ATT, and/or adjusting the RF Gain does help some > but the > signal still sounds noisy compared to the MP. > > CONFIG: AGC THR may be set too high. Try a lower setting. > > Also, for a given band/antenna combination, set ATT ON>ATT OFF>PRE > ON in > that order and stop when connecting the antenna gives you band > noise (i.e. > don't use any more gain than necessary). This ensures you are not > wasting > dynamic range by setting the noise floor correctly. After doing > this, I set > my AF GAIN knob to about 9-10 o'clock (for headphones) and adjust > RF GAIN > back for a comfortable volume. If you run RF GAIN wide open the > receiver > will sound noisy and you are limiting your dynamic range. > > 73, Bill __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
> Yes, the equalizer is a kind of remedy, but how about an embedded variable > AF filter, tracking the width of the IF DSP filter? > That has always been the case in the K3. More specifically, the IF and AF filters track in CW, SSB and DATA modes. In AM mode there is a defined relationship, but it is not 1:1. In FM mode the AF filter is not adjustable. 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Dick - You said "running 1.2.10.27". That is the version number of the utility program used to load the firmware into the K3(among other things) , not what the K3 is running . The version of that would be more relevant to this discussion. The current version is 3.68. 73, Mike NF4L r...@aol.com wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I'd appreciate your thoughts as to why my K-3 receiver is so noisy. I'd > really like to make this radio perform. The radio is Serial #603F (factory > model) running 1.2.10.27. I purchased the unit from the original owner a > couple of months ago so I don't know if it's always been this noisy but I do > know it was the same before I recently updated software to 1.2.10.27. The > radio is in immaculate condition and was never used mobile or bounced around. > > (it's a beautiful radio that looks like new!) > > I say the receiver is noisy based upon listening to dozens of different > signals on: 40/20/15 m. and by doing numerous A/B comparison tests. The > comparison tests were done with the K-3 Pre-Amp turned Off. (and tried with > ATT > on and off but mostly on to reduce noise). > > Radio 1: Yaesu FT-1000-MP w/AF Mod. A signal is peaking S-8 and with the > no signal noise level is averaging S-1. Therefore, the signal is peaking > aprx. 7 s-units above the noise based upon the MP s-meter and the signal > sounds > loud and is way above the noise level. Now I switch to the K-3: > > Radio 2: K-3 tuned to the same signal with PreAmp Off and is peaking S-7 > but the no signal noise level is noisy S-4 to S-5. Therefore, the signal is > peaking only about 2 or 3 s-units above the noise level based upon the K-3 > s-meter. The result is that the MP has aprx. a 4 s-unit S/N ratio > advantage. > > > Thoughts: I realize that all s-meters read differently and the fact that > the MP s-meter shows a 4 s-unit stronger signal above the noise level > doesn't > mean alot. But the fact is that the signal on the MP sounds MUCH louder > with alot more headroom above the noise level. The K-3 receiver sounds so > noisy even with the S-7 signal that it isn't enjoyable listening to and > that's > why I ran the comparisons because I couldn't stand all the noise. Switching > on the K-3's NR, ATT, and/or adjusting the RF Gain does help some but the > signal still sounds noisy compared to the MP. > > Based upon "Reviews" of the K-3 I believe that I must have an unusual "K-3 > noisy receiver" problem. > > I'd sure appreciate your ideas on how I can get a better S/N ratio on my > K-3. > > Thanks! > > 73, > Dick- K9OM > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
>>>Thoughts: I realize that all s-meters read differently and the fact that the MP s-meter shows a 4 s-unit stronger signal above the noise level doesn't mean alot. Correct, 4 S-units on an MP meter at that level is probably more like 2 real S-units (10-12 dB). See below: http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@mailman.qth.net/msg63910.html >>>But the fact is that the signal on the MP sounds MUCH louder with alot more headroom above the noise level. The K-3 receiver sounds so noisy even with the S-7 signal that it isn't enjoyable listening to and that's why I ran the comparisons because I couldn't stand all the noise. Switching on the K-3's NR, ATT, and/or adjusting the RF Gain does help some but the signal still sounds noisy compared to the MP. CONFIG: AGC THR may be set too high. Try a lower setting. Also, for a given band/antenna combination, set ATT ON>ATT OFF>PRE ON in that order and stop when connecting the antenna gives you band noise (i.e. don't use any more gain than necessary). This ensures you are not wasting dynamic range by setting the noise floor correctly. After doing this, I set my AF GAIN knob to about 9-10 o'clock (for headphones) and adjust RF GAIN back for a comfortable volume. If you run RF GAIN wide open the receiver will sound noisy and you are limiting your dynamic range. 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Noisy-K-3-Receiver-tp4173832p4175133.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
> With the K3 on default settings, its produces a sound that I do not like. > I > tailored the RX audio with the RX-equalizer and it sounds more pleasant to > my ears now. Setting the IF filtering takes care of the rest. Yes, the equalizer is a kind of remedy, but how about an embedded variable AF filter, tracking the width of the IF DSP filter? 73 Val LZ1VB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Dick, You are right about the s-meter of the FT1K. Under S8 it cannot be trusted. That is a fact. When I measured this on my MP a signal drop op 3 s-points resulted in going from s8 to s1 or so on the meter, so that's about the same as you see with yours. About the noise, I have done a comparison this morning. Both rigs sound different but my impression is that the rigs hear equally well. With the K3 on default settings, its produces a sound that I do not like. I tailored the RX audio with the RX-equalizer and it sounds more pleasant to my ears now. Setting the IF filtering takes care of the rest. Try playing around with those tools and see (hear) what you get then. 73 Arie PA3A __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Hi Dick, I have both a K3 and FT-1000MP. I agree that the K3 can have a somewhat noisy behaviour leading to listening fatigue. I have the impression that the various F/W versions in the past gave different AGC behaviour influencing the "noisiness". I played quite a while with the AGC SLP and AGC THR parameters in the config menu (TECH MODE ON !!). I am not behind the rig right now, but I remember decreasing the SLP and increasing the THR parameter tend to give a more old-fashioned "analog" listening experience. If you play a bit with these parameters you'll find out whether you can make your K3 sound more to your linking. In any case, on the weak signal side I can hear equally well on both radios. On the loud signal/crowded band side the K3 is much better, also due to the fact that I have both 500 and 250Hz roofing filters (which I let kick in at 650 and 350Hz respectively, something I can recommend to everyone to try). -- Enno, PF5X K3 #1263 RLVZ wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I'd appreciate your thoughts as to why my K-3 receiver is so noisy. I'd > really like to make this radio perform. The radio is Serial #603F > (factory > model) running 1.2.10.27. I purchased the unit from the original owner a > couple of months ago so I don't know if it's always been this noisy but I > do > know it was the same before I recently updated software to 1.2.10.27. > The > radio is in immaculate condition and was never used mobile or bounced > around. > (it's a beautiful radio that looks like new!) > > I say the receiver is noisy based upon listening to dozens of different > signals on: 40/20/15 m. and by doing numerous A/B comparison tests. The > comparison tests were done with the K-3 Pre-Amp turned Off. (and tried > with ATT > on and off but mostly on to reduce noise). > > Radio 1: Yaesu FT-1000-MP w/AF Mod. A signal is peaking S-8 and with the > no signal noise level is averaging S-1. Therefore, the signal is peaking > aprx. 7 s-units above the noise based upon the MP s-meter and the signal > sounds > loud and is way above the noise level. Now I switch to the K-3: > > Radio 2: K-3 tuned to the same signal with PreAmp Off and is peaking S-7 > but the no signal noise level is noisy S-4 to S-5. Therefore, the signal > is > peaking only about 2 or 3 s-units above the noise level based upon the K-3 > s-meter. The result is that the MP has aprx. a 4 s-unit S/N ratio > advantage. > > > Thoughts: I realize that all s-meters read differently and the fact that > the MP s-meter shows a 4 s-unit stronger signal above the noise level > doesn't > mean alot. But the fact is that the signal on the MP sounds MUCH louder > with alot more headroom above the noise level. The K-3 receiver sounds so > noisy even with the S-7 signal that it isn't enjoyable listening to and > that's > why I ran the comparisons because I couldn't stand all the noise. > Switching > on the K-3's NR, ATT, and/or adjusting the RF Gain does help some but the > signal still sounds noisy compared to the MP. > > Based upon "Reviews" of the K-3 I believe that I must have an unusual "K-3 > noisy receiver" problem. > > I'd sure appreciate your ideas on how I can get a better S/N ratio on my > K-3. > > Thanks! > > 73, > Dick- K9OM > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Noisy-K-3-Receiver-tp4173832p4174721.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
RLVZ wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I'd appreciate your thoughts as to why my K-3 receiver is so noisy. I'd > really like to make this radio perform. The radio is Serial #603F > (factory > model) running 1.2.10.27. I purchased the unit from the original owner a > couple of months ago so I don't know if it's always been this noisy but I > do > know it was the same before I recently updated software to 1.2.10.27. > The > radio is in immaculate condition and was never used mobile or bounced > around. > (it's a beautiful radio that looks like new!) > > I say the receiver is noisy based upon listening to dozens of different > signals on: 40/20/15 m. and by doing numerous A/B comparison tests. The > comparison tests were done with the K-3 Pre-Amp turned Off. (and tried > with ATT > on and off but mostly on to reduce noise). > > Radio 1: Yaesu FT-1000-MP w/AF Mod. A signal is peaking S-8 and with the > no signal noise level is averaging S-1. Therefore, the signal is peaking > aprx. 7 s-units above the noise based upon the MP s-meter and the signal > sounds > loud and is way above the noise level. Now I switch to the K-3: > > Radio 2: K-3 tuned to the same signal with PreAmp Off and is peaking S-7 > but the no signal noise level is noisy S-4 to S-5. Therefore, the signal > is > peaking only about 2 or 3 s-units above the noise level based upon the K-3 > s-meter. The result is that the MP has aprx. a 4 s-unit S/N ratio > advantage. > > > Thoughts: I realize that all s-meters read differently and the fact that > the MP s-meter shows a 4 s-unit stronger signal above the noise level > doesn't > mean alot. But the fact is that the signal on the MP sounds MUCH louder > with alot more headroom above the noise level. The K-3 receiver sounds so > noisy even with the S-7 signal that it isn't enjoyable listening to and > that's > why I ran the comparisons because I couldn't stand all the noise. > Switching > on the K-3's NR, ATT, and/or adjusting the RF Gain does help some but the > signal still sounds noisy compared to the MP. > > Based upon "Reviews" of the K-3 I believe that I must have an unusual "K-3 > noisy receiver" problem. > > I'd sure appreciate your ideas on how I can get a better S/N ratio on my > K-3. > > Thanks! > > Hi Dick. I wonder if what you are experiencing is simply the result of your K3's S meter being adjusted to read high on noise, coupled with the fact that its calibration results in something close to the "standrard" 6dB per S-point? I would suggest that you perform the S meter calibration procedure described in the manual. I am not familiar with the FT-1000MP but with many radios the S meter basically reads the AGC voltage and it takes a significant signal to shift it at all after which it shoots up at about 2dB per S point until it reaches the S9 level. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Noisy-K-3-Receiver-tp4173832p4174647.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
