Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing
Hi Alan, Cool undocumented feature! Guessed that FN5="MENU". How do I get back to normal ... other than powering down? I generally do not send P3 commands, it seems to stay in sync with the K3 by itself, but do often have need to see what my program is sending to the K3, or getting back from the K3. I'll paste your email into my station notebook. And, yes, it's in MCU 1.60 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 2/8/2021 4:07 PM, Alan Bloom wrote: There is a little-known serial debug monitor in the P3 that shows the traffic on the two RS-232 ports. You activate the function by simultaneously holding the DISPLAY/AVERAGE and FN1/FN5 buttons. The P3 screen changes to show RS-232 traffic color-coded to show on which port and in which direction the traffic is going. The data can fly by awfully fast when using a logging program. You can freeze the screen immediately after a band change by tapping the FN2 key. Tap it again to unfreeze the screen. If you want to show more data you can choose a smaller font size with the MENU > Font feature. I'm pretty sure that feature still exists in current P3 code. I can't check this myself since all my ham equipment was recently lost in a fire. Alan N1AL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing
I have observed very similar occurrences. For example changing bands, if the center frequency was previously tuned to 10.000.00 MHz with a span of 20KHz, then changing to another band, say 20M or 40M, then back to 30M (10MHz), the center frequency will briefly appear in the upper left corner of the P3 display, as well as in the center of the display. It then corrects, with the proper LH-CENTER-RH ( 9.990.00 – 10.000.00 – 10.010.00 ) displayed. Occasionally the display will show ( 10.000.00 – 10.000.00 – 10.010.00 ) and not correct the display. Also the FILTER BAND PASS will appear on the left side of the display, remaining there. All of the communication to the P3 in this case is from the K3S. I have no computer or other device connected to the K3S/P3. Initiating a “CENTER” command via the P3 “BUTTON” will usually correct the issue…… Ben W4SC Sent from Mail for Windows 10 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing
If you return to a band but at a different K3 VFO frequency, the new frequency may be outside the P3's span. If that happens, the P3 will re-tune using an algorithm determined by the MENU > FixMode setting. If you want to be sure the P3 frequency doesn't change you can set FixMode to "Static". Then the P3 frequency range will not change even if the K3 VFO frequency is out of range. It may be that some logging programs do not retain the old frequency upon a band change. Even if the frequency is "wrong" only for an instant, that would be enough to confuse the P3 if not in "Static" mode. It would be interesting to see what N1MM and other logging programs are sending to the P3/K3 on band changes. There is a little-known serial debug monitor in the P3 that shows the traffic on the two RS-232 ports. You activate the function by simultaneously holding the DISPLAY/AVERAGE and FN1/FN5 buttons. The P3 screen changes to show RS-232 traffic color-coded to show on which port and in which direction the traffic is going. The data can fly by awfully fast when using a logging program. You can freeze the screen immediately after a band change by tapping the FN2 key. Tap it again to unfreeze the screen. If you want to show more data you can choose a smaller font size with the MENU > Font feature. I'm pretty sure that feature still exists in current P3 code. I can't check this myself since all my ham equipment was recently lost in a fire. Alan N1AL On 2/8/2021 4:05 PM, Jim McDonald wrote: I use the Fixed Tune Mode too but the center frequency sometimes isn't remembered when returning to a previously-used band. If it makes any difference, I'm usually using N1MM+ (often with Win4K3Suite) to control the radio. 73, Jim N7US -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Fred Jensen Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 16:45 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing Don't understand your "follow option" question. I run mine in Fixed Tune Mode which holds the span [i.e. edge frequencies] constant and the two VFO's show up as two vertical cursors in the spectrum display. The cursors move as I tune, and when I go beyond the edge, the span shifts by the amount I've set in the menu ... I use a full span. In the Tracking Mode, your receive frequency is always centered and the spectrum moves past it as you tune. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 2/8/2021 2:34 PM, Dave Cole wrote: How does one set the follow option, I just looked through the menu of the P3, and don't see it. 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 2/8/21 12:39 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: Yes, it has been discussed, and yes, that is the case. It seems to be most prevalent when returning to a band after moving off for a Q, such as in NAQP's when the return is being commanded via CAT command. In fairness to the Elecraft developers, it /*appears*/ that it is attempting to put the frequency you are returning into the center-ish part of the display which is not totally unreasonable. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 2/7/2021 12:28 PM, Jim McDonald wrote: I know this has been asked before but I don't remember the answer. Isn't the P3 supposed to remember the span and center frequency from band to band? It seems to change center frequency even if the band hasn't changed, but that may not be the case. 73, Jim N7US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing
I use the Fixed Tune Mode too but the center frequency sometimes isn't remembered when returning to a previously-used band. If it makes any difference, I'm usually using N1MM+ (often with Win4K3Suite) to control the radio. 73, Jim N7US -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Fred Jensen Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 16:45 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing Don't understand your "follow option" question. I run mine in Fixed Tune Mode which holds the span [i.e. edge frequencies] constant and the two VFO's show up as two vertical cursors in the spectrum display. The cursors move as I tune, and when I go beyond the edge, the span shifts by the amount I've set in the menu ... I use a full span. In the Tracking Mode, your receive frequency is always centered and the spectrum moves past it as you tune. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 2/8/2021 2:34 PM, Dave Cole wrote: > How does one set the follow option, I just looked through the menu of > the P3, and don't see it. > > 73, and thanks, > Dave (NK7Z) > https://www.nk7z.net > ARRL Volunteer Examiner > ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI > ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources > > On 2/8/21 12:39 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: >> Yes, it has been discussed, and yes, that is the case. It seems to >> be most prevalent when returning to a band after moving off for a Q, >> such as in NAQP's when the return is being commanded via CAT command. >> In fairness to the Elecraft developers, it /*appears*/ that it is >> attempting to put the frequency you are returning into the center-ish >> part of the display which is not totally unreasonable. >> >> 73, >> >> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW >> Sparks NV DM09dn >> Washoe County >> >> On 2/7/2021 12:28 PM, Jim McDonald wrote: >>> I know this has been asked before but I don't remember the answer. >>> Isn't the P3 supposed to remember the span and center frequency from >>> band to band? It seems to change center frequency even if the band >>> hasn't changed, but that may not be the case. >>> >>> 73, Jim N7US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing
Make that after your move commands within the macros... 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 2/8/21 2:43 PM, Mike Flowers wrote: There are apparently some issues with the P3 firmware retaining the frequency and center by band. I reported one issue where the P3 would return to an entirely different band than the one commanded. The head of FW for Elecraft confirmed this is a bug that needs fixing. When that will happen, if ever, is anyone's guess with the K4, pandemic, etc. In macros I write to change bands and frequency, I find that I must issue P3 commands twice to have the P3 properly centered as I want it. I issue the first set of P3 commands at the beginning of the macro string, and the second one near the end. This works for me, so I no longer worry about this FW bug. - 73 and good DX de Mike, K6MKF, NCDXC Secretary -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Dave Cole Sent: Monday, February 08, 2021 14:34 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing How does one set the follow option, I just looked through the menu of the P3, and don't see it. 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 2/8/21 12:39 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: Yes, it has been discussed, and yes, that is the case. It seems to be most prevalent when returning to a band after moving off for a Q, such as in NAQP's when the return is being commanded via CAT command. In fairness to the Elecraft developers, it /*appears*/ that it is attempting to put the frequency you are returning into the center-ish part of the display which is not totally unreasonable. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 2/7/2021 12:28 PM, Jim McDonald wrote: I know this has been asked before but I don't remember the answer. Isn't the P3 supposed to remember the span and center frequency from band to band? It seems to change center frequency even if the band hasn't changed, but that may not be the case. 73, Jim N7US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to mike.flow...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing
Are you adding delays after your move macros? I had that problem, then added some delays, and all problems of that nature ended. 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 2/8/21 2:43 PM, Mike Flowers wrote: There are apparently some issues with the P3 firmware retaining the frequency and center by band. I reported one issue where the P3 would return to an entirely different band than the one commanded. The head of FW for Elecraft confirmed this is a bug that needs fixing. When that will happen, if ever, is anyone's guess with the K4, pandemic, etc. In macros I write to change bands and frequency, I find that I must issue P3 commands twice to have the P3 properly centered as I want it. I issue the first set of P3 commands at the beginning of the macro string, and the second one near the end. This works for me, so I no longer worry about this FW bug. - 73 and good DX de Mike, K6MKF, NCDXC Secretary -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Dave Cole Sent: Monday, February 08, 2021 14:34 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing How does one set the follow option, I just looked through the menu of the P3, and don't see it. 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 2/8/21 12:39 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: Yes, it has been discussed, and yes, that is the case. It seems to be most prevalent when returning to a band after moving off for a Q, such as in NAQP's when the return is being commanded via CAT command. In fairness to the Elecraft developers, it /*appears*/ that it is attempting to put the frequency you are returning into the center-ish part of the display which is not totally unreasonable. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 2/7/2021 12:28 PM, Jim McDonald wrote: I know this has been asked before but I don't remember the answer. Isn't the P3 supposed to remember the span and center frequency from band to band? It seems to change center frequency even if the band hasn't changed, but that may not be the case. 73, Jim N7US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to mike.flow...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing
That answered my question, thank you! 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 2/8/21 2:44 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: Don't understand your "follow option" question. I run mine in Fixed Tune Mode which holds the span [i.e. edge frequencies] constant and the two VFO's show up as two vertical cursors in the spectrum display. The cursors move as I tune, and when I go beyond the edge, the span shifts by the amount I've set in the menu ... I use a full span. In the Tracking Mode, your receive frequency is always centered and the spectrum moves past it as you tune. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 2/8/2021 2:34 PM, Dave Cole wrote: How does one set the follow option, I just looked through the menu of the P3, and don't see it. 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 2/8/21 12:39 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: Yes, it has been discussed, and yes, that is the case. It seems to be most prevalent when returning to a band after moving off for a Q, such as in NAQP's when the return is being commanded via CAT command. In fairness to the Elecraft developers, it /*appears*/ that it is attempting to put the frequency you are returning into the center-ish part of the display which is not totally unreasonable. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 2/7/2021 12:28 PM, Jim McDonald wrote: I know this has been asked before but I don't remember the answer. Isn't the P3 supposed to remember the span and center frequency from band to band? It seems to change center frequency even if the band hasn't changed, but that may not be the case. 73, Jim N7US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing
Don't understand your "follow option" question. I run mine in Fixed Tune Mode which holds the span [i.e. edge frequencies] constant and the two VFO's show up as two vertical cursors in the spectrum display. The cursors move as I tune, and when I go beyond the edge, the span shifts by the amount I've set in the menu ... I use a full span. In the Tracking Mode, your receive frequency is always centered and the spectrum moves past it as you tune. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 2/8/2021 2:34 PM, Dave Cole wrote: How does one set the follow option, I just looked through the menu of the P3, and don't see it. 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 2/8/21 12:39 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: Yes, it has been discussed, and yes, that is the case. It seems to be most prevalent when returning to a band after moving off for a Q, such as in NAQP's when the return is being commanded via CAT command. In fairness to the Elecraft developers, it /*appears*/ that it is attempting to put the frequency you are returning into the center-ish part of the display which is not totally unreasonable. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 2/7/2021 12:28 PM, Jim McDonald wrote: I know this has been asked before but I don't remember the answer. Isn't the P3 supposed to remember the span and center frequency from band to band? It seems to change center frequency even if the band hasn't changed, but that may not be the case. 73, Jim N7US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing
There are apparently some issues with the P3 firmware retaining the frequency and center by band. I reported one issue where the P3 would return to an entirely different band than the one commanded. The head of FW for Elecraft confirmed this is a bug that needs fixing. When that will happen, if ever, is anyone's guess with the K4, pandemic, etc. In macros I write to change bands and frequency, I find that I must issue P3 commands twice to have the P3 properly centered as I want it. I issue the first set of P3 commands at the beginning of the macro string, and the second one near the end. This works for me, so I no longer worry about this FW bug. - 73 and good DX de Mike, K6MKF, NCDXC Secretary > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net boun...@mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Dave Cole > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2021 14:34 > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing > > How does one set the follow option, I just looked through the menu of the P3, > and don't see it. > > 73, and thanks, > Dave (NK7Z) > https://www.nk7z.net > ARRL Volunteer Examiner > ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI > ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources > > On 2/8/21 12:39 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: > > Yes, it has been discussed, and yes, that is the case. It seems to be > > most prevalent when returning to a band after moving off for a Q, such > > as in NAQP's when the return is being commanded via CAT command. In > > fairness to the Elecraft developers, it /*appears*/ that it is > > attempting to put the frequency you are returning into the center-ish > > part of the display which is not totally unreasonable. > > > > 73, > > > > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW > > Sparks NV DM09dn > > Washoe County > > > > On 2/7/2021 12:28 PM, Jim McDonald wrote: > >> I know this has been asked before but I don't remember the answer. > >> Isn't the P3 supposed to remember the span and center frequency from > >> band to band? It seems to change center frequency even if the band > >> hasn't changed, but that may not be the case. > >> > >> 73, Jim N7US > >> > > > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to > > d...@nk7z.net > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message > delivered to mike.flow...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing
How does one set the follow option, I just looked through the menu of the P3, and don't see it. 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 2/8/21 12:39 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: Yes, it has been discussed, and yes, that is the case. It seems to be most prevalent when returning to a band after moving off for a Q, such as in NAQP's when the return is being commanded via CAT command. In fairness to the Elecraft developers, it /*appears*/ that it is attempting to put the frequency you are returning into the center-ish part of the display which is not totally unreasonable. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 2/7/2021 12:28 PM, Jim McDonald wrote: I know this has been asked before but I don't remember the answer. Isn't the P3 supposed to remember the span and center frequency from band to band? It seems to change center frequency even if the band hasn't changed, but that may not be the case. 73, Jim N7US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] P3 span changing
Yes, it has been discussed, and yes, that is the case. It seems to be most prevalent when returning to a band after moving off for a Q, such as in NAQP's when the return is being commanded via CAT command. In fairness to the Elecraft developers, it /*appears*/ that it is attempting to put the frequency you are returning into the center-ish part of the display which is not totally unreasonable. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 2/7/2021 12:28 PM, Jim McDonald wrote: I know this has been asked before but I don't remember the answer. Isn't the P3 supposed to remember the span and center frequency from band to band? It seems to change center frequency even if the band hasn't changed, but that may not be the case. 73, Jim N7US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
