Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Jim Brown]

On Sun,4/3/2016 8:33 AM, Don Butler wrote:

Barry . I just tested my 20 meter and 17 meter whips by fully extending them
and connecting them directly to a Rig Expert AA-230 Pro outside in the open
yard ... With NO Counterpoise wire ... this is the first time I've tried
this ..


Good that you've never done that -- as W0MBT noted, omitting the 
counterpoise leaves out half of the antenna!  The counterpoise provides 
a RETURN for antenna current. Without that return, the chassis of 
whatever box it's connected to (and whatever the chassis is connected 
to) serves as the return.


Let's get something straight. Current flows in LOOPS, whether it's DC, 
audio, or RF. If current flows out on one wire (in this case, the whip), 
it MUST flow in on something else connected to the transmitter. In the 
case of the whip, it's whatever is connected to the chassis of the 
transmitter. We call that a counterpoise. An antenna creates an 
electromagnetic field, which space couples between the two pieces of the 
antenna (the whip and the counterpoise), so around the antenna space is 
part of that loop.


Without that counterpoise, the antenna doesn't work as well. First, it 
is less efficient, because the return path for the feed current and the 
field is poor. Second, because it is part of the antenna, a missing or 
shortened counterpoise causes the antenna to resonate at a higher 
frequency.


Radials are a more ideal form of counterpoise -- they SHIELD the antenna 
from the lossy earth (which burns TX power before it can be radiated); 
instead, return current flows in low resistance radials, making the 
antenna more efficient (and our signal louder at the other end).


On Sun,4/3/2016 9:17 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

This probably goes without saying, but... always use a counterpoise (at least 
one wire) if you're actually trying to make QSOs. Without one, the whip not be 
resonant on its target band, and you'll lose 15-20 dB of signal at the 
receiving station.


Exactly.


Even with the counterpoise, I always use the internal ATU in the KX3 to improve 
the SWR.


Poor choice of words. An antenna tuner does NOT "improve the SWR" -- SWR 
is a property of a TRANSMISSION LINE, and it is determined ENTIRELY by 
the match between the antenna and the transmission line. Rather, an 
antenna tuner transforms the Z of the antenna to the load impedance that 
the output stage of the rig wants to see as a load, in most cases, 50 
Ohms resistive. This does two things -- it prevents protection circuitry 
from "folding back" the output stage (reducing drive to the output 
stage, thus reducing its power) to protect it, and it reduces distortion 
in the output stage.



For listening only, I'll sometimes use the whip without a counterpoise wire. I 
still use the ATU in the KX3 in this case (you can't hurt it, since this is 
done at 2 W). This resonates the whip for RX purposes.


In this context, the counterpoise (and the tuner) do two things -- they 
make the antenna more efficient (by providing a better return for 
current), AND increase the current at the input of the RX. With TX, we 
care about efficiency of the antenna (how much RF field does it create) 
because it makes our signal stronger. With RX, we don't care much, or 
don't care at all, because we have more than enough sensitivity in the 
RX to hear weaker signals. SO -- a counterpoise is far less important 
for listening.



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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Don Butler]

Barry . I just tested my 20 meter and 17 meter whips by fully extending them
and connecting them directly to a Rig Expert AA-230 Pro outside in the open
yard ... With NO Counterpoise wire ... this is the first time I've tried
this ..

And after doing so I'm not so sure that it's reliable.

1.  The fully extended 20 meter whip, mounted directly to the analyzer
dips to 2.6:1 at 17.860 Mhz   .. ( when mounted on an aluminum base with
counterpoise wires  it ran from 1.2:1 to 2.2:1 through the 20 meter band).
 
2.  The fully extended 17 meter whip, mounted directly to the analyzer
dips to 2.7:1 at 21.940 Mhz   ... (when mounted on the aluminum base with
counterpoise wires it ran around 1.2:1 from 18.100 to 18.200)

Based upon my testing, and what you previously reported, I'd say that you
probably do have a stock 20 meter whip that is correctly labeled.

I have photos of my homemade aluminum base ... but am not sure if I can post
it to the reflector so will not attempt that ... but if anyone would like to
see them contact me offlist and I'll be happy to share them.

Don, N5LZ

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Barry
N1EU
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2016 4:38 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector; k...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band
whips for KX3, etc.

Thanks for all the responses.  Don, your comments are much appreciated and I
planned on building a bracket just as you describe and mounting my
whip/counterpoise to the top of a trekking pole..

Again, I'm not asking about antenna performance.  I will add the
counterpoise in actual operation.  I'm asking if anyone out there who
actually owns the MFJ-1820T can please connect it directly to a antenna
analyzer and check 20M performance.  Yes, I believe these antennas actually
DO resonate just as they are.  I believe mine is 17M (mislabeled), not 20M,
and just looking to confirm that.

Thanks & 73,
Barry N1EU

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:34 AM, Bruce Nourish  wrote:

> Did you have a counterpoise when you swept the antenna? If not, you're 
> only looking at half your antenna, especially as the RigExpert is 
> almost all plastic.
>
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016, 01:15 Barry N1EU  wrote:
>
>> If anyone else out there has an MFJ-1820T and also an antenna 
>> analyzer, I wonder if you could please do me a favor.  Please just 
>> connect the whip directly to the analyzer and tell me what the SWR 
>> looks like across the 20M and the 17M bands.
>>
>> I swept my MFJ-1820T with my Rig Expert AA-30 and my MFJ-1820T is 
>> resonant on 17M, not 20M.  I'm wondering if I have a mislabeled
MFJ-1817T.
>>
>> Thanks & 73,
>> Barry N1EU
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Barry N1EU]

Thanks for all the responses.  Don, your comments are much appreciated and
I planned on building a bracket just as you describe and mounting my
whip/counterpoise to the top of a trekking pole..

Again, I'm not asking about antenna performance.  I will add the
counterpoise in actual operation.  I'm asking if anyone out there who
actually owns the MFJ-1820T can please connect it directly to a antenna
analyzer and check 20M performance.  Yes, I believe these antennas actually
DO resonate just as they are.  I believe mine is 17M (mislabeled), not 20M,
and just looking to confirm that.

Thanks & 73,
Barry N1EU

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:34 AM, Bruce Nourish  wrote:

> Did you have a counterpoise when you swept the antenna? If not, you're
> only looking at half your antenna, especially as the RigExpert is almost
> all plastic.
>
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016, 01:15 Barry N1EU  wrote:
>
>> If anyone else out there has an MFJ-1820T and also an antenna analyzer, I
>> wonder if you could please do me a favor.  Please just connect the whip
>> directly to the analyzer and tell me what the SWR looks like across the
>> 20M
>> and the 17M bands.
>>
>> I swept my MFJ-1820T with my Rig Expert AA-30 and my MFJ-1820T is resonant
>> on 17M, not 20M.  I'm wondering if I have a mislabeled MFJ-1817T.
>>
>> Thanks & 73,
>> Barry N1EU
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Bruce Nourish]

Did you have a counterpoise when you swept the antenna? If not, you're only
looking at half your antenna, especially as the RigExpert is almost all
plastic.

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016, 01:15 Barry N1EU  wrote:

> If anyone else out there has an MFJ-1820T and also an antenna analyzer, I
> wonder if you could please do me a favor.  Please just connect the whip
> directly to the analyzer and tell me what the SWR looks like across the 20M
> and the 17M bands.
>
> I swept my MFJ-1820T with my Rig Expert AA-30 and my MFJ-1820T is resonant
> on 17M, not 20M.  I'm wondering if I have a mislabeled MFJ-1817T.
>
> Thanks & 73,
> Barry N1EU
>
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 2:12 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've been using an MFJ-1820T telescoping 20-meter whip for a few months.
> > Considering its length (48"), results have been excellent. I typically
> use
> > it with the KX3 on a picnic table at 15 W (with an external battery), or
> > hand-held at 3 to 5 W (internal battery).
> >
> > During the ARRL DX contest I worked many countries in CW and RTTY modes,
> > and have also had a number of longer QSOs on 20-meter SSB. Of course at
> > these power levels, with an electrically short whip, good band conditions
> > can't hurt.
> >
> > I prefer a 25' or so wire-in-a-tree antenna when there's time. But when I
> > need a quick deployment antenna that weighs very little, I pull out the
> > 1820T. Note that you *must* use at least one counterpose wire. More than
> > one helps, but all of the QSOs I described were made with a single
> 13'-long
> > wire laid out on the ground. With no ground wire, you'll be down some 15
> to
> > 20 dB in transmit mode.
> >
> > Since the 20-meter results were so good, I also bought the whips for 40,
> > 17, 15, and 10 meters. 40 meters is a rough ride at 48", but I was still
> > able to check into daytime SSB nets all over the west coast running 10 W.
> > On the higher bands, results improve as you go higher in frequency. I
> > worked a few JAs on 15 meter SSB running just 1 watt.
> >
> > A traditional problem with such antennas is that the the SWR can
> sometimes
> > be unexpectedly high, requiring that you micro-adjust the telescoping
> > length and/or adjust the length of the counterpoise wire. This is
> > completely unnecessary if you have an auto-tuner available. In
> particular,
> > the KX3's ATU can quickly match any of these whips over their full target
> > band. In a pinch the ATU can also match a given whip on adjacent bands.
> In
> > the DX contest mentioned I tuned up the 20-meter whip on 17 and 15 meters
> > as well, and made a few Q's there, despite the losses due to
> off-resonance
> > operation.
> >
> > These whips can handle a surprising amount of power. They're rated to 25
> > W, but I ran 50 W through the 20-meter version for several minutes
> without
> > damaging it. Some other compact whips I've tried overheated quickly even
> at
> > 10 W, including some of the Maldol models. When this happens, the SWR
> goes
> > up and stays up until the coil cools down.
> >
> > Caveat: Always use a full-size antenna when possible. But if you've just
> > crested a new hill and only have a couple of minutes to see if the RF
> > really is greener on the other side, this is an excellent choice.
> >
> > 73,
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
> >
> >
> > __
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> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to n1eu.ba...@gmail.com
> >
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Don Butler]

You may be right Barry ... it may be mislabeled ... there can't be much
chance of a real 20M whip resonating on 17 ...  FWIW I've had a full set
of the MFJ whips for several years and did SWR testing on each one when I
first got them  but I did not connect them directly to my Rig Expert
analyzer ... I had built a stand alone aluminum base with a BNC connector
for the whips and wingnuts for attaching counterpoise wires so I did my
testing in that configuration

My 20 meter whip is resonant at 14.400  and runs from 1.2:1 at the top
of the band to 2.2:1 at 14.025

My 17 meter whip is even better ... resonant at 17.900 ... but tests at
1.2:1 all through the band

All of my high band whips are usable (10, 12, 15, 17, and 20)  but my
30, 40 and 80 whips have never worked well ... the 80 resonates at 3.350
... and SWR is at infinity throughout the band  my 40 resonates at 6.800
... and my 30 resonates at 9.700  . all my testing was done with the
whips fully extended  I figure if I shorten them I will essentially be
turning them into non-radiating dummy loads..

I personally do not like to attach the whips directly to my KX3  ... it
feels to me that they're putting too much torque on the BNC connector and
the antenna seems like it weighs almost as much as the radio  which is
why I made the aluminum base ... 

But I later bought a CrankIR vertical which has become my "Go To" portable
antenna ... so the MFJ whips have been retired to a box in the shack...

Don, N5LZ

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Barry
N1EU
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2016 6:15 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector; k...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band
whips for KX3, etc.

If anyone else out there has an MFJ-1820T and also an antenna analyzer, I
wonder if you could please do me a favor.  Please just connect the whip
directly to the analyzer and tell me what the SWR looks like across the 20M
and the 17M bands.

I swept my MFJ-1820T with my Rig Expert AA-30 and my MFJ-1820T is resonant
on 17M, not 20M.  I'm wondering if I have a mislabeled MFJ-1817T.

Thanks & 73,
Barry N1EU

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 2:12 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've been using an MFJ-1820T telescoping 20-meter whip for a few months.
> Considering its length (48"), results have been excellent. I typically 
> use it with the KX3 on a picnic table at 15 W (with an external 
> battery), or hand-held at 3 to 5 W (internal battery).
>
> During the ARRL DX contest I worked many countries in CW and RTTY 
> modes, and have also had a number of longer QSOs on 20-meter SSB. Of 
> course at these power levels, with an electrically short whip, good 
> band conditions can't hurt.
>
> I prefer a 25' or so wire-in-a-tree antenna when there's time. But 
> when I need a quick deployment antenna that weighs very little, I pull 
> out the 1820T. Note that you *must* use at least one counterpose wire. 
> More than one helps, but all of the QSOs I described were made with a 
> single 13'-long wire laid out on the ground. With no ground wire, 
> you'll be down some 15 to
> 20 dB in transmit mode.
>
> Since the 20-meter results were so good, I also bought the whips for 
> 40, 17, 15, and 10 meters. 40 meters is a rough ride at 48", but I was 
> still able to check into daytime SSB nets all over the west coast running
10 W.
> On the higher bands, results improve as you go higher in frequency. I 
> worked a few JAs on 15 meter SSB running just 1 watt.
>
> A traditional problem with such antennas is that the the SWR can 
> sometimes be unexpectedly high, requiring that you micro-adjust the 
> telescoping length and/or adjust the length of the counterpoise wire. 
> This is completely unnecessary if you have an auto-tuner available. In 
> particular, the KX3's ATU can quickly match any of these whips over 
> their full target band. In a pinch the ATU can also match a given whip 
> on adjacent bands. In the DX contest mentioned I tuned up the 20-meter 
> whip on 17 and 15 meters as well, and made a few Q's there, despite 
> the losses due to off-resonance operation.
>
> These whips can handle a surprising amount of power. They're rated to 
> 25 W, but I ran 50 W through the 20-meter version for several minutes 
> without damaging it. Some other compact whips I've tried overheated 
> quickly even at
> 10 W, including some of the Maldol models. When this happens, the SWR 
> goes up and stays up until the coil cools down.
>
> Caveat: Always use a full-size antenna when possible. But if you've 
> just crested a new hill and only have a couple of minutes to see if 
> the RF really is greener on the other side, this is an e

Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Barry N1EU]

If anyone else out there has an MFJ-1820T and also an antenna analyzer, I
wonder if you could please do me a favor.  Please just connect the whip
directly to the analyzer and tell me what the SWR looks like across the 20M
and the 17M bands.

I swept my MFJ-1820T with my Rig Expert AA-30 and my MFJ-1820T is resonant
on 17M, not 20M.  I'm wondering if I have a mislabeled MFJ-1817T.

Thanks & 73,
Barry N1EU

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 2:12 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've been using an MFJ-1820T telescoping 20-meter whip for a few months.
> Considering its length (48"), results have been excellent. I typically use
> it with the KX3 on a picnic table at 15 W (with an external battery), or
> hand-held at 3 to 5 W (internal battery).
>
> During the ARRL DX contest I worked many countries in CW and RTTY modes,
> and have also had a number of longer QSOs on 20-meter SSB. Of course at
> these power levels, with an electrically short whip, good band conditions
> can't hurt.
>
> I prefer a 25' or so wire-in-a-tree antenna when there's time. But when I
> need a quick deployment antenna that weighs very little, I pull out the
> 1820T. Note that you *must* use at least one counterpose wire. More than
> one helps, but all of the QSOs I described were made with a single 13'-long
> wire laid out on the ground. With no ground wire, you'll be down some 15 to
> 20 dB in transmit mode.
>
> Since the 20-meter results were so good, I also bought the whips for 40,
> 17, 15, and 10 meters. 40 meters is a rough ride at 48", but I was still
> able to check into daytime SSB nets all over the west coast running 10 W.
> On the higher bands, results improve as you go higher in frequency. I
> worked a few JAs on 15 meter SSB running just 1 watt.
>
> A traditional problem with such antennas is that the the SWR can sometimes
> be unexpectedly high, requiring that you micro-adjust the telescoping
> length and/or adjust the length of the counterpoise wire. This is
> completely unnecessary if you have an auto-tuner available. In particular,
> the KX3's ATU can quickly match any of these whips over their full target
> band. In a pinch the ATU can also match a given whip on adjacent bands. In
> the DX contest mentioned I tuned up the 20-meter whip on 17 and 15 meters
> as well, and made a few Q's there, despite the losses due to off-resonance
> operation.
>
> These whips can handle a surprising amount of power. They're rated to 25
> W, but I ran 50 W through the 20-meter version for several minutes without
> damaging it. Some other compact whips I've tried overheated quickly even at
> 10 W, including some of the Maldol models. When this happens, the SWR goes
> up and stays up until the coil cools down.
>
> Caveat: Always use a full-size antenna when possible. But if you've just
> crested a new hill and only have a couple of minutes to see if the RF
> really is greener on the other side, this is an excellent choice.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

I think some people mount them under one of the thumb screws — but it seems to 
me a lot simpler to just use a large enough alligator (or blunt nosed) style 
clip on the end of the radial wire.  Clip it right to the metal shell of the 
male BNC.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342




> On Mar 29, 2016, at 7:14 AM, Barry N1EU  wrote:
> 
> Probably a dumb question, but any suggestions on how to connect
> counterpoise wires using the MFJ-1820T?  The loaded whip terminates in a
> male BNC, which I assume is intended to connect directly to the KX3 antenna
> jack.  It's not obvious to me how to add counterpoise wires???

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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Barry N1EU]

Probably a dumb question, but any suggestions on how to connect
counterpoise wires using the MFJ-1820T?  The loaded whip terminates in a
male BNC, which I assume is intended to connect directly to the KX3 antenna
jack.  It's not obvious to me how to add counterpoise wires???

Thanks & 73,
Barry N1EU

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've been using an MFJ-1820T telescoping 20-meter whip for a few months.
> Considering its length (48"), results have been excellent. I typically use
> it with the KX3 on a picnic table at 15 W (with an external battery), or
> hand-held at 3 to 5 W (internal battery).
>
> During the ARRL DX contest I worked many countries in CW and RTTY modes,
> and have also had a number of longer QSOs on 20-meter SSB. Of course at
> these power levels, with an electrically short whip, good band conditions
> can't hurt.
>
> I prefer a 25' or so wire-in-a-tree antenna when there's time. But when I
> need a quick deployment antenna that weighs very little, I pull out the
> 1820T. Note that you *must* use at least one counterpose wire. More than
> one helps, but all of the QSOs I described were made with a single 13'-long
> wire laid out on the ground. With no ground wire, you'll be down some 15 to
> 20 dB in transmit mode.
>
> Since the 20-meter results were so good, I also bought the whips for 40,
> 17, 15, and 10 meters. 40 meters is a rough ride at 48", but I was still
> able to check into daytime SSB nets all over the west coast running 10 W.
> On the higher bands, results improve as you go higher in frequency. I
> worked a few JAs on 15 meter SSB running just 1 watt.
>
> A traditional problem with such antennas is that the the SWR can sometimes
> be unexpectedly high, requiring that you micro-adjust the telescoping
> length and/or adjust the length of the counterpoise wire. This is
> completely unnecessary if you have an auto-tuner available. In particular,
> the KX3's ATU can quickly match any of these whips over their full target
> band. In a pinch the ATU can also match a given whip on adjacent bands. In
> the DX contest mentioned I tuned up the 20-meter whip on 17 and 15 meters
> as well, and made a few Q's there, despite the losses due to off-resonance
> operation.
>
> These whips can handle a surprising amount of power. They're rated to 25
> W, but I ran 50 W through the 20-meter version for several minutes without
> damaging it. Some other compact whips I've tried overheated quickly even at
> 10 W, including some of the Maldol models. When this happens, the SWR goes
> up and stays up until the coil cools down.
>
> Caveat: Always use a full-size antenna when possible. But if you've just
> crested a new hill and only have a couple of minutes to see if the RF
> really is greener on the other side, this is an excellent choice.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc

[Edward R Cole]

I might argue semantics with you, Charlie but get that most folks 
think a "base loading coil" is for use with shortened antennas 
(showing capacitive reactance).


The 5/8 WL Larson VHF whip (cut for 2m) does load nice on low end of 
6m.  In fact my antenna is a Larson  with NMO base mounting coil to 
NMO magnet.  Its on my truck so not accessible to check actual model 
but LM sound's correct.  I bought several at work for high-band VHF 
mobiles and recall some had HW or HD marking.


I can't recall if I every tried 6m using the Maxrad version which we 
bought later in the 15 years on my last job.  So maybe only the 
Larson brand will work this way.  We only had a few MOT antennas as 
they were cheaper without MOT brand on them.  We also installed DB 
Products antennas (not NMO base).


You can also buy the Larson NMOQ which is a 1/4 WL whip with NMO base 
but no coil.  I don't recall what whip length is supplied but I 
recall buying some mobile whips that had 96 inch whips which you 
trimmed with bolt cutters to resonant length (cutting charts were 
pretty good for obtaining good SWR on a mobile).


73, Ed

-
This only works for a 5/8  wave 2 M antenna where
the base inductor (It's NOT a * loading coil)
isn't tapped and grounded at one end.
In other words, if there is a single connection to
the antenna, this will work.
If there's a ground connection such that the
inductor is tapped up the coil it will not
function on 50 MHz.
The Larson LM series will work, but ones designed
for the Motorola (NMO) base will not.

73, Charlie k3ICH

* A 5/8 wave antenna presents roughly 50 Ohms
resistive and some level of capacitive (-J)
reactance.
In order to match this impedance, a series
inductor is required to cancel the capacitive
reactance,
So technically, it is not a "loading" which would
be designed to make up for the fact that an
antenna is too short for a ? wave resonance.
---
OR buy a 5/8 wave base-loaded 2m mobile whip -
loads on 50-MHz very nicely.  That's an old trick
for dual-band 6m/2m use.  Try brands like Larsen
or Maxrad.

73, Ed - KL7UW



73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Bill Frantz]

I had this problem in spades finding an antenna to use on my 
Miata with a Yeasu FTM-10R, which does 2M and 70Ccm along with 
AM and FM broadcast. The FTM-10R manual says, “NOTE: An 
antenna designed with a matching device that forms a low DC 
resistance to ground may have poor recep on on the AM

Page 2
broadcast band.”

I finally parked the car outside our local Ham Radio Outlet and 
took antenna after antenna out to try them. I ended up with a 
Larson NMO-2/70 SH antenna which would receive AM and work on 
all the rest of the bands. In addition, it is quite small and 
doesn’t overwhelm the car.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/25/16 at 2:27 PM, pin...@erols.com (Charlie T, K3ICH) wrote:






OR buy a 5/8 wave base-loaded 2m mobile whip -
loads on 50-MHz very nicely.  That's an old trick
for dual-band 6m/2m use.  Try brands like Larsen
or Maxrad.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com


This only works for a 5/8  wave 2 M antenna where
the base inductor (It's NOT a * loading coil)
isn't tapped and grounded at one end.   In other words, if 
there is a single connection to

the antenna, this will work.
If there's a ground connection such that the
inductor is tapped up the coil it will not
function on 50 MHz.
The Larson LM series will work, but ones designed
for the Motorola (NMO) base will not.
73, Charlie k3ICH

* A 5/8 wave antenna presents roughly 50 Ohms
resistive and some level of capacitive (-J)
reactance.
In order to match this impedance, a series
inductor is required to cancel the capacitive
reactance, So technically, it is not a "loading" which would
be designed to make up for the fact that an
antenna is too short for a ¼ wave resonance.



---
Bill Frantz| Privacy is dead, get over| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | it.  | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  - Scott McNealy | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

OR buy a 5/8 wave base-loaded 2m mobile whip -
loads on 50-MHz very nicely.  That's an old trick
for dual-band 6m/2m use.  Try brands like Larsen
or Maxrad.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
 "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
 dubus...@gmail.com


This only works for a 5/8  wave 2 M antenna where
the base inductor (It's NOT a * loading coil)
isn't tapped and grounded at one end.   
In other words, if there is a single connection to
the antenna, this will work.
If there's a ground connection such that the
inductor is tapped up the coil it will not
function on 50 MHz.
The Larson LM series will work, but ones designed
for the Motorola (NMO) base will not. 

73, Charlie k3ICH

* A 5/8 wave antenna presents roughly 50 Ohms
resistive and some level of capacitive (-J)
reactance.
In order to match this impedance, a series
inductor is required to cancel the capacitive
reactance, 
So technically, it is not a "loading" which would
be designed to make up for the fact that an
antenna is too short for a ¼ wave resonance.




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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Edward R Cole]

Since folks are talking adding a top hat or base loading coil, why 
not just extend the length of the vertical to a full 1/4 
wavelength?  1/4WL = 248/50.1 MHz = 4.95 feet (59, 3/8-inch).


Connect a small alligator clip to a 11-inch piece of hookup wire and 
suspend the wire with a piece of cord to "something", OR uses heavier 
stiff wire that will self-support.


Now you have a resonant 1/4 wave vertical.

OR buy a 5/8 wave base-loaded 2m mobile whip - loads on 50-MHz very 
nicely.  That's an old trick for dual-band 6m/2m use.  Try brands 
like Larsen or Maxrad.


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Wayne Burdick]

> But I can testify that from my experience working QRP in major DX contests, a 
> few dB can be the difference between making a QSO or not, mostly based on the 
> noise level at the other end. And 7+ dB is a LOT.

That's true. But when I'm out hiking, doing quick deployments, I'm willing to 
accept -7 dB. Band not open enough? Enjoy the scenery.

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,3/25/2016 9:31 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Jim Brown  wrote:


>A #22 wire taped to a telescoping fiberglass pole can easily be wedged between 
the seat and the top of a typical picnic table...

True enough, but the whip, when collapsed, is a lot shorter.


No doubt, and the whip is less weight to carry. That's part of the cost 
of 7+ dB. All of life is a series of compromises, and when we're lucky, 
we get to choose. :) To me, they're all tools in the kit.


But I can testify that from my experience working QRP in major DX 
contests, a few dB can be the difference between making a QSO or not, 
mostly based on the noise level at the other end. And 7+ dB is a LOT.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Wayne Burdick]

Jim Brown  wrote:

> A #22 wire taped to a telescoping fiberglass pole can easily be wedged 
> between the seat and the top of a typical picnic table...

True enough, but the whip, when collapsed, is a lot shorter.

Wayne
N6KR




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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Jim Brown]

I'm quoting your entire message because it's exactly right on all counts.

73, Jim K9YC

On Fri,3/25/2016 8:44 AM, GRANT YOUNGMAN wrote:

Raising the counterpoise a foot or more above ground rather than just throwing 
it on the ground will have the effect of reducing ground losses and getting 
more signal radiated.  So rather than just toss the counterpoise wire on the 
ground, it’s a good thing to keep it elevated — run it from where you have it 
connected (e.g., table top) out to a bush, a branch, to a fiberglass driveway 
marker stuck in the ground, whatever’s available.  I carry a piece of small 
para-cord so I can tie the winder that holds my radial wire off to something.  
If you’re inside on a second floor, it may not matter much, but at a typical 
field site with lousy soil conductivity it can.

A single elevated radial will also cause a very slight distortion in the usual 
uniform radiation pattern with max response in the direction of the radial.  
Two elevated radial wires (at about 180 deg) give you the more usual 
non-directional pattern.


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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Jim Brown]

Yes, any antenna that's deployed beats one that isn't. :)  But a #22 
wire taped to a telescoping fiberglass pole can easily be wedged between 
the seat and the top of a typical picnic table, and another #22 laid on 
the ground. There's a photo on my qrz.com page of me doing exactly that 
from a suburban Chicago park c.a. 2004. You'll recognize the radio.


73, Jim K9YC

On Fri,3/25/2016 8:00 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

And I didn't have to frighten any birds away with my usual weight-tossing 
wild-west antenna deployment routine.


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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

Just a minor point. Raising the counterpoise a foot or more above ground rather 
than just throwing it on the ground will have the effect of reducing ground 
losses and getting more signal radiated.  So rather than just toss the 
counterpoise wire on the ground, it’s a good thing to keep it elevated — run it 
from where you have it connected (e.g., table top) out to a bush, a branch, to 
a fiberglass driveway marker stuck in the ground, whatever’s available.  I 
carry a piece of small para-cord so I can tie the winder that holds my radial 
wire off to something.  If you’re inside on a second floor, it may not matter 
much, but at a typical field site with lousy soil conductivity it can.

A single elevated radial will also cause a very slight distortion in the usual 
uniform radiation pattern with max response in the direction of the radial.  
Two elevated radial wires (at about 180 deg) give you the more usual 
non-directional pattern.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342




> On Mar 25, 2016, at 10:00 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> Jim,
> 
> Like I implied in my posting, portable operation is often more about 
> convenience than signal strength. 
> 
> Your estimate of around 7 dB sounds reasonable. That's about 1.5 S-units, to 
> use the vernacular. When a band is open, this loss still allows a lot of 
> contacts to be made.
> 
> Example: A couple of months ago my son and I were doing a bit of hiking/bird 
> watching at Redwood Shores. While Griffin stalked hooded mergansers with his 
> camera, I quickly set up my KX3 at a picnic table. I attached the whip with a 
> right-angle BNC, along with the 13' counterpoise wire. 20 meter CW was very 
> active with EU contest stations, most of them probably running a KW ("or 
> so"). I called several of them running 5 W, and worked most of them on one 
> call. 
> 
> I may have been down 7 dB from a full-size vertical, but I got through 
> nonetheless. And I didn't have to frighten any birds away with my usual 
> weight-tossing wild-west antenna deployment routine.
> 
> Sometimes size doesn't matter.
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Gene Gabry]

It's all about making contacts anyway you can and having fun doing it!

Gene, N9TF

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne
Burdick
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 10:00 AM
To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band
whips for KX3, etc.

Jim,

Like I implied in my posting, portable operation is often more about
convenience than signal strength. 

Your estimate of around 7 dB sounds reasonable. That's about 1.5 S-units, to
use the vernacular. When a band is open, this loss still allows a lot of
contacts to be made.

Example: A couple of months ago my son and I were doing a bit of hiking/bird
watching at Redwood Shores. While Griffin stalked hooded mergansers with his
camera, I quickly set up my KX3 at a picnic table. I attached the whip with
a right-angle BNC, along with the 13' counterpoise wire. 20 meter CW was
very active with EU contest stations, most of them probably running a KW
("or so"). I called several of them running 5 W, and worked most of them on
one call. 

I may have been down 7 dB from a full-size vertical, but I got through
nonetheless. And I didn't have to frighten any birds away with my usual
weight-tossing wild-west antenna deployment routine.

Sometimes size doesn't matter.

Wayne
N6KR


On Mar 24, 2016, at 11:14 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:

> On Wed,3/23/2016 7:12 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> I've been using an MFJ-1820T telescoping 20-meter whip for a few months.
Considering its length (48"), results have been excellent. I typically use
it with the KX3 on a picnic table at 15 W (with an external battery), or
hand-held at 3 to 5 W (internal battery).
> 
> As Tom Schiller, N6BT, famously noted, EVERYTHING WORKS, sort of. He
demonstrated this by working all continents loading a lightbulb that he fed
with coax. Tom is the designer of the excellent Force 12 antennas.
> 
> I just did a quick NEC model of a 4 ft vertical with loading coil and a
single quarter-wave radial laying on the ground, and compared it with a
quarter-wave vertical (16.7 ft) with the same single radial. The model is
for poor soil, which is typical of most mountainous QTHs. The full-size
quarter-wave will be 7.4 dB louder than the shortened one. That's equivalent
to reducing a 15W signal to 3W. The difference is slightly greater over
better than average ground. The reduced efficiency is due to the greatly
reduced radiation resistance of the shortened antenna.
> 
> Bottom line -- yes, shortened antennas work, sort of, but full-size
antennas work BETTER. If you can afford the weight of a means to support the
longer antenna (typically a telescoping fiberglass pole), it's well worth
it! And if a shorter antenna MUST be used, LONGER antenna, LESS coil is
better.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Wayne Burdick]

Jim,

Like I implied in my posting, portable operation is often more about 
convenience than signal strength. 

Your estimate of around 7 dB sounds reasonable. That's about 1.5 S-units, to 
use the vernacular. When a band is open, this loss still allows a lot of 
contacts to be made.

Example: A couple of months ago my son and I were doing a bit of hiking/bird 
watching at Redwood Shores. While Griffin stalked hooded mergansers with his 
camera, I quickly set up my KX3 at a picnic table. I attached the whip with a 
right-angle BNC, along with the 13' counterpoise wire. 20 meter CW was very 
active with EU contest stations, most of them probably running a KW ("or so"). 
I called several of them running 5 W, and worked most of them on one call. 

I may have been down 7 dB from a full-size vertical, but I got through 
nonetheless. And I didn't have to frighten any birds away with my usual 
weight-tossing wild-west antenna deployment routine.

Sometimes size doesn't matter.

Wayne
N6KR


On Mar 24, 2016, at 11:14 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:

> On Wed,3/23/2016 7:12 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> I've been using an MFJ-1820T telescoping 20-meter whip for a few months. 
>> Considering its length (48"), results have been excellent. I typically use 
>> it with the KX3 on a picnic table at 15 W (with an external battery), or 
>> hand-held at 3 to 5 W (internal battery).
> 
> As Tom Schiller, N6BT, famously noted, EVERYTHING WORKS, sort of. He 
> demonstrated this by working all continents loading a lightbulb that he fed 
> with coax. Tom is the designer of the excellent Force 12 antennas.
> 
> I just did a quick NEC model of a 4 ft vertical with loading coil and a 
> single quarter-wave radial laying on the ground, and compared it with a 
> quarter-wave vertical (16.7 ft) with the same single radial. The model is for 
> poor soil, which is typical of most mountainous QTHs. The full-size 
> quarter-wave will be 7.4 dB louder than the shortened one. That's equivalent 
> to reducing a 15W signal to 3W. The difference is slightly greater over 
> better than average ground. The reduced efficiency is due to the greatly 
> reduced radiation resistance of the shortened antenna.
> 
> Bottom line -- yes, shortened antennas work, sort of, but full-size antennas 
> work BETTER. If you can afford the weight of a means to support the longer 
> antenna (typically a telescoping fiberglass pole), it's well worth it! And if 
> a shorter antenna MUST be used, LONGER antenna, LESS coil is better.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Brendon Whateley]

Thanks for the Mac pointer and advice. Now to see if I can find enough time
to do some modeling.

I do software stuff and spend a lot of time in the "Console" -- Windows
version of that is just so clunky... shudder -- At least the mac is Unix
like so matches all the servers with run Linux. Don't forget Windows has
been training users on their version of UI for 20 odd years. It may take
more than 5 minutes to figure out Mac or Linux. But neither is too hard to
pick up. In fact, Linux has a "Redmond" mode if you really need it to look
similar.

- Brendon

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:

> The place to look for Mac ham radio stuff is  >.
>
> I have used Koc Chen's cocoaNEC <
> http://www.w7ay.net/site/Applications/cocoaNEC/index.html> for antenna
> modelling. It is quite usable.
>
> [Unlike Jim, I haven't been able to recover from developing software for
> Windows at work in the late 1990s. The only way I survived was using Cygwin
> -- a Unix shell and environment for Windows.]
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 3/24/16 at 10:01 PM, bren...@whateley.com (Brendon Whateley) wrote:
>
> Is there a suitable modeling software for the Mac? I've not had a Windows
>> machine in the house since XP was shiny and new...
>>
>
> ---
> Bill Frantz| "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the
> 408-356-8506   | intelligence.  There's a knob called "brightness",
> but
> www.pwpconsult.com | it doesn't work. -- Gallagher
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Bill Frantz]

The place to look for Mac ham radio stuff is .

I have used Koc Chen's cocoaNEC 
 for 
antenna modelling. It is quite usable.


[Unlike Jim, I haven't been able to recover from developing 
software for Windows at work in the late 1990s. The only way I 
survived was using Cygwin -- a Unix shell and environment for Windows.]


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/24/16 at 10:01 PM, bren...@whateley.com (Brendon Whateley) wrote:


Is there a suitable modeling software for the Mac? I've not had a Windows
machine in the house since XP was shiny and new...


---
Bill Frantz| "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn 
up the
408-356-8506   | intelligence.  There's a knob called 
"brightness", but

www.pwpconsult.com | it doesn't work. -- Gallagher

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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Jim Brown]

Don't know. I have never been able to get my feeble brain around Apple's 
"super logical" UI.


73, Jim

On Thu,3/24/2016 10:01 PM, Brendon Whateley wrote:

Jim,

Is there a suitable modeling software for the Mac? I've not had a 
Windows machine in the house since XP was shiny and new.


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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Brendon Whateley]

Jim,

Is there a suitable modeling software for the Mac? I've not had a Windows
machine in the house since XP was shiny and new...

- Brendon

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 6:11 PM, Jim Brown 
wrote:

> On Thu,3/24/2016 3:15 PM, Brendon Whateley wrote:
>
>> Jim,
>>
>> Can you toss a capacitive hat on the top of the shorter vertical and see
>> what difference that makes? I've not figured out how to use the modeling
>> software yet!
>>
>
> Now's a good time to learn. :)  Modeling software like NEC is a great way
> to learn about antennas.
>
> I don't have time to do a model, but almost any top-loading is better than
> bottom loading.  My guess is that ONLY a cap hat won't bring a 4 ft
> vertical to resonance without a loading coil, but depending on how big the
> coil and hat are, it could be as much as 2-3 dB better than the coil only.
>
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Josh]

Not all 4ft radiators are equal! Top loading vs bottom loading changes the 
current distribution and raises radiation resistance of the vertical radiator. 
Top loading can substantially improve efficiency. 

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> 
>  ...A 4 foot radiator is still a 4 foot radiator and will have full 
> efficiency at about 50 MHz. Using it with loading coil and/or top hat on 
> lower frequencies will allow it to be used, but will not compare with a full 
> size vertical radiator.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Don Wilhelm]

Brendon,

A capacity hat can work on bringing the frequency downward, but how much 
depends on the size of the capacity hat and the inductance of the 
loading coil.


If you are not comfortable with modeling software, but have an antenna 
analyzer, you can still experiment.  Try a capacity hat and see how far 
it brings the resonant frequency down.  If it is not far enough, try a 
bigger hat.


The fact that you can lower the resonant frequency does not indicate 
efficiency (it only indicates the ability to properly load the transceiver).
Efficiency and lower SWR are not equal.  A 4 foot radiator is still a 4 
foot radiator and will have full efficiency at about 50 MHz. Using it 
with loading coil and/or top hat on lower frequencies will allow it to 
be used, but will not compare with a full size vertical radiator.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/24/2016 6:15 PM, Brendon Whateley wrote:

Jim,

Can you toss a capacitive hat on the top of the shorter vertical and see
what difference that makes? I've not figured out how to use the modeling
software yet!




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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,3/24/2016 3:15 PM, Brendon Whateley wrote:

Jim,

Can you toss a capacitive hat on the top of the shorter vertical and 
see what difference that makes? I've not figured out how to use the 
modeling software yet!


Now's a good time to learn. :)  Modeling software like NEC is a great 
way to learn about antennas.


I don't have time to do a model, but almost any top-loading is better 
than bottom loading.  My guess is that ONLY a cap hat won't bring a 4 ft 
vertical to resonance without a loading coil, but depending on how big 
the coil and hat are, it could be as much as 2-3 dB better than the coil 
only.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Brendon Whateley]

Jim,

Can you toss a capacitive hat on the top of the shorter vertical and see
what difference that makes? I've not figured out how to use the modeling
software yet!

- Brendon
KK6AYI

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Jim Brown 
wrote:

> On Wed,3/23/2016 7:12 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>
>> I've been using an MFJ-1820T telescoping 20-meter whip for a few months.
>> Considering its length (48"), results have been excellent. I typically use
>> it with the KX3 on a picnic table at 15 W (with an external battery), or
>> hand-held at 3 to 5 W (internal battery).
>>
>
> As Tom Schiller, N6BT, famously noted, EVERYTHING WORKS, sort of. He
> demonstrated this by working all continents loading a lightbulb that he fed
> with coax. Tom is the designer of the excellent Force 12 antennas.
>
> I just did a quick NEC model of a 4 ft vertical with loading coil and a
> single quarter-wave radial laying on the ground, and compared it with a
> quarter-wave vertical (16.7 ft) with the same single radial. The model is
> for poor soil, which is typical of most mountainous QTHs. The full-size
> quarter-wave will be 7.4 dB louder than the shortened one. That's
> equivalent to reducing a 15W signal to 3W. The difference is slightly
> greater over better than average ground. The reduced efficiency is due to
> the greatly reduced radiation resistance of the shortened antenna.
>
> Bottom line -- yes, shortened antennas work, sort of, but full-size
> antennas work BETTER. If you can afford the weight of a means to support
> the longer antenna (typically a telescoping fiberglass pole), it's well
> worth it! And if a shorter antenna MUST be used, LONGER antenna, LESS coil
> is better.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Jim Brown]

On Wed,3/23/2016 7:12 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

I've been using an MFJ-1820T telescoping 20-meter whip for a few months. Considering 
its length (48"), results have been excellent. I typically use it with the KX3 
on a picnic table at 15 W (with an external battery), or hand-held at 3 to 5 W 
(internal battery).


As Tom Schiller, N6BT, famously noted, EVERYTHING WORKS, sort of. He 
demonstrated this by working all continents loading a lightbulb that he 
fed with coax. Tom is the designer of the excellent Force 12 antennas.


I just did a quick NEC model of a 4 ft vertical with loading coil and a 
single quarter-wave radial laying on the ground, and compared it with a 
quarter-wave vertical (16.7 ft) with the same single radial. The model 
is for poor soil, which is typical of most mountainous QTHs. The 
full-size quarter-wave will be 7.4 dB louder than the shortened one. 
That's equivalent to reducing a 15W signal to 3W. The difference is 
slightly greater over better than average ground. The reduced efficiency 
is due to the greatly reduced radiation resistance of the shortened 
antenna.


Bottom line -- yes, shortened antennas work, sort of, but full-size 
antennas work BETTER. If you can afford the weight of a means to support 
the longer antenna (typically a telescoping fiberglass pole), it's well 
worth it! And if a shorter antenna MUST be used, LONGER antenna, LESS 
coil is better.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Walter Underwood]

I got the whip for 17m. I figure there is not much difference between a coil at 
the base of the whip and a coil inside the ATU. Neither one will radiate. So 
get a whip for the highest band you want to use and let the ATU provide loading 
for lower bands.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:44 PM, Tom Crayner  wrote:
> 
> Wayne,
> 
> Funny you should bring this up, I just received an MFJ-1899T today. Slapped
> a counterpoise on it and at 6 watts running JT9 (in New Jersey) was able to
> be heard (watching PSK Reporter) all the way in CA and Alberta.  Just
> worked a station in MN.
> 
> I'm not even giving the whip a fair chance... I'm sitting in a basement
> with it cranked up to the floor joist over my head, nestled between 4 foot
> fluorescent tubes and metal duct work. It tuned 1.2:1... counterpoise is
> connected to ground thumb screw next to antenna jack.
> 
> I did groove a small piece of 2x4 for the right angle BNC connector to be
> cradled on so all that weight of the telescopic whip doesn't damage the
> jack...
> 
> Can't wait to take this down to the shore in a few weeks and see what it
> can really do without all the disadvantages I've placed on it tonight
> :-)
> 
> Tom, W2YF
> 
> 
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I've been using an MFJ-1820T telescoping 20-meter whip for a few months.
>> Considering its length (48"), results have been excellent. I typically use
>> it with the KX3 on a picnic table at 15 W (with an external battery), or
>> hand-held at 3 to 5 W (internal battery).
>> 
>> During the ARRL DX contest I worked many countries in CW and RTTY modes,
>> and have also had a number of longer QSOs on 20-meter SSB. Of course at
>> these power levels, with an electrically short whip, good band conditions
>> can't hurt.
>> 
>> I prefer a 25' or so wire-in-a-tree antenna when there's time. But when I
>> need a quick deployment antenna that weighs very little, I pull out the
>> 1820T. Note that you *must* use at least one counterpose wire. More than
>> one helps, but all of the QSOs I described were made with a single 13'-long
>> wire laid out on the ground. With no ground wire, you'll be down some 15 to
>> 20 dB in transmit mode.
>> 
>> Since the 20-meter results were so good, I also bought the whips for 40,
>> 17, 15, and 10 meters. 40 meters is a rough ride at 48", but I was still
>> able to check into daytime SSB nets all over the west coast running 10 W.
>> On the higher bands, results improve as you go higher in frequency. I
>> worked a few JAs on 15 meter SSB running just 1 watt.
>> 
>> A traditional problem with such antennas is that the the SWR can sometimes
>> be unexpectedly high, requiring that you micro-adjust the telescoping
>> length and/or adjust the length of the counterpoise wire. This is
>> completely unnecessary if you have an auto-tuner available. In particular,
>> the KX3's ATU can quickly match any of these whips over their full target
>> band. In a pinch the ATU can also match a given whip on adjacent bands. In
>> the DX contest mentioned I tuned up the 20-meter whip on 17 and 15 meters
>> as well, and made a few Q's there, despite the losses due to off-resonance
>> operation.
>> 
>> These whips can handle a surprising amount of power. They're rated to 25
>> W, but I ran 50 W through the 20-meter version for several minutes without
>> damaging it. Some other compact whips I've tried overheated quickly even at
>> 10 W, including some of the Maldol models. When this happens, the SWR goes
>> up and stays up until the coil cools down.
>> 
>> Caveat: Always use a full-size antenna when possible. But if you've just
>> crested a new hill and only have a couple of minutes to see if the RF
>> really is greener on the other side, this is an excellent choice.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Strong recommendation: MFJ 18xx-series single-band whips for KX3, etc.

[Tom Crayner]

Wayne,

Funny you should bring this up, I just received an MFJ-1899T today. Slapped
a counterpoise on it and at 6 watts running JT9 (in New Jersey) was able to
be heard (watching PSK Reporter) all the way in CA and Alberta.  Just
worked a station in MN.

I'm not even giving the whip a fair chance... I'm sitting in a basement
with it cranked up to the floor joist over my head, nestled between 4 foot
fluorescent tubes and metal duct work. It tuned 1.2:1... counterpoise is
connected to ground thumb screw next to antenna jack.

I did groove a small piece of 2x4 for the right angle BNC connector to be
cradled on so all that weight of the telescopic whip doesn't damage the
jack...

Can't wait to take this down to the shore in a few weeks and see what it
can really do without all the disadvantages I've placed on it tonight
:-)

Tom, W2YF


On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've been using an MFJ-1820T telescoping 20-meter whip for a few months.
> Considering its length (48"), results have been excellent. I typically use
> it with the KX3 on a picnic table at 15 W (with an external battery), or
> hand-held at 3 to 5 W (internal battery).
>
> During the ARRL DX contest I worked many countries in CW and RTTY modes,
> and have also had a number of longer QSOs on 20-meter SSB. Of course at
> these power levels, with an electrically short whip, good band conditions
> can't hurt.
>
> I prefer a 25' or so wire-in-a-tree antenna when there's time. But when I
> need a quick deployment antenna that weighs very little, I pull out the
> 1820T. Note that you *must* use at least one counterpose wire. More than
> one helps, but all of the QSOs I described were made with a single 13'-long
> wire laid out on the ground. With no ground wire, you'll be down some 15 to
> 20 dB in transmit mode.
>
> Since the 20-meter results were so good, I also bought the whips for 40,
> 17, 15, and 10 meters. 40 meters is a rough ride at 48", but I was still
> able to check into daytime SSB nets all over the west coast running 10 W.
> On the higher bands, results improve as you go higher in frequency. I
> worked a few JAs on 15 meter SSB running just 1 watt.
>
> A traditional problem with such antennas is that the the SWR can sometimes
> be unexpectedly high, requiring that you micro-adjust the telescoping
> length and/or adjust the length of the counterpoise wire. This is
> completely unnecessary if you have an auto-tuner available. In particular,
> the KX3's ATU can quickly match any of these whips over their full target
> band. In a pinch the ATU can also match a given whip on adjacent bands. In
> the DX contest mentioned I tuned up the 20-meter whip on 17 and 15 meters
> as well, and made a few Q's there, despite the losses due to off-resonance
> operation.
>
> These whips can handle a surprising amount of power. They're rated to 25
> W, but I ran 50 W through the 20-meter version for several minutes without
> damaging it. Some other compact whips I've tried overheated quickly even at
> 10 W, including some of the Maldol models. When this happens, the SWR goes
> up and stays up until the coil cools down.
>
> Caveat: Always use a full-size antenna when possible. But if you've just
> crested a new hill and only have a couple of minutes to see if the RF
> really is greener on the other side, this is an excellent choice.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
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