Re: [Elecraft] Tuning your radio and amplifier to your amtenna

[kd7gc]

Hello Jim,  In major part I agree with your suggested method for tuning up
and amp, but I would never begin my tuning with an output from my
transceiver of 4 watts.  I have never heard of anyone suggesting that tuning
should begin with anything close to 4 watts.  I generally go thru 3 or 4
steps, but I start with my transceiver set to about 25 or 30 watts output.
I bring my drive up in say 3 or 4 increments until I reach my desired amp
output, usually in the range of about 60 or 70 watts of drive, at least for
smaller amps.  However, when I tune up my Henry 5K I don't exceed about 45
watts of drive because I would already be over 1500 watts out.  At 70 watts
of drive I would be running over 3KW, or 3.5 KW on 40 or 75 meters.  

 

HTH

 

 

Alan R. Downing

Phoenix, AZ

 

From: hf4me [via Elecraft] [mailto:ml-node+s365791n7592596...@n2.nabble.com]

Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:15 PM
To: kd7gc
Subject: Tuning your radio and amplifier to your amtenna

 

Manual tuner - Manual amplifier: 

Or, any tuner and amplifier - tune with low power and radio only to start. 

I don't use "tune" unless I am using the internal tuner.  Set your tune 
power setting to 4 watts, place your amp in standby, press xmit (xmit only, 
not tune) get your tuner properly adjusted, press xmit to release, turn your

power output down to 4 watts, enable your amplifier, place your radio in CW 
mode, tune to a frequency CLOSE to where you want to transmit - NOT on top 
of other QSOs, use your CW key to cause the radio to transmit, tune your 
amplifier and refine your tuner settings, let off the key every few seconds 
to not heat up everything, if your are happy with the current settings, 
increase your power out slowly as you watch it on each increase until you 
have achieved the output power you are looking for. 

1 lower your output power 
2 Transmit only a few seconds at a time 
3 Find an unused frequency - close is plenty good 
4 Tune with your radio without any amp 
5 When happy, enable the amp 
6 Adjust settings 
7 Increase power slowly 
8 Readjust if necessary. 
9 Tune to your target frequency 

73, Jim 

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Re: [Elecraft] Tuning your radio and amplifier to your amtenna

[Jim Brown]

On Wed,8/27/2014 9:22 PM, kd7gc wrote:

I have never heard of anyone suggesting that tuning
should begin with anything close to 4 watts.  I generally go thru 3 or 4
steps, but I start with my transceiver set to about 25 or 30 watts output.


Agreed. My Ten Tec Titans (a pair of triodes) drive with a bit less than 
50W. I have tune settings for each amp for each band on a yellow sticky 
next to the amp, so I set those, then hit it with about 25W, tweak, run 
drive to see close to 1500, and retune for maximum smoke as indicated by 
the SWR/power meter. I tune with dits, so the duty cycle is 50%, less 
stress than full power carrier, but gives me correct tuning for full power.


On the other hand, if you're tuning an auto tuner like the KAT500, you 
want to tune it with drive power only, the amp off.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Tuning your radio and amplifier to your amtenna

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

Yeah, I just hate it when my 3CX6000 amp kicks out from too much grid drive.

Chas


- Original Message - 
From: "kd7gc" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Tuning your radio and amplifier to your amtenna



Hello Jim,  In major part I agree with your suggested method for tuning up
and amp, but I would never begin my tuning with an output from my
transceiver of 4 watts.  I have never heard of anyone suggesting that 
tuning

should begin with anything close to 4 watts.  I generally go thru 3 or 4
steps, but I start with my transceiver set to about 25 or 30 watts output.
I bring my drive up in say 3 or 4 increments until I reach my desired amp
output, usually in the range of about 60 or 70 watts of drive, at least 
for

smaller amps.  However, when I tune up my Henry 5K I don't exceed about 45
watts of drive because I would already be over 1500 watts out.  At 70 
watts

of drive I would be running over 3KW, or 3.5 KW on 40 or 75 meters.



HTH





Alan R. Downing

Phoenix, AZ



From: hf4me [via Elecraft] 
[mailto:ml-node+s365791n7592596...@n2.nabble.com]


Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:15 PM
To: kd7gc
Subject: Tuning your radio and amplifier to your amtenna



Manual tuner - Manual amplifier:

Or, any tuner and amplifier - tune with low power and radio only to start.

I don't use "tune" unless I am using the internal tuner.  Set your tune
power setting to 4 watts, place your amp in standby, press xmit (xmit 
only,
not tune) get your tuner properly adjusted, press xmit to release, turn 
your


power output down to 4 watts, enable your amplifier, place your radio in 
CW

mode, tune to a frequency CLOSE to where you want to transmit - NOT on top
of other QSOs, use your CW key to cause the radio to transmit, tune your
amplifier and refine your tuner settings, let off the key every few 
seconds

to not heat up everything, if your are happy with the current settings,
increase your power out slowly as you watch it on each increase until you
have achieved the output power you are looking for.

1 lower your output power
2 Transmit only a few seconds at a time
3 Find an unused frequency - close is plenty good
4 Tune with your radio without any amp
5 When happy, enable the amp
6 Adjust settings
7 Increase power slowly
8 Readjust if necessary.
9 Tune to your target frequency

73, Jim

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Re: [Elecraft] Tuning your radio and amplifier to your amtenna

[Phil Wheeler]

Good point in the "On the other hand", Jim. I'm 
not sure the original poster specified 
KPA500/KAT500 or a 3rd party amp -- and it does 
make a difference.


Phil W7OX

On 8/27/14, 10:50 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Wed,8/27/2014 9:22 PM, kd7gc wrote:
I have never heard of anyone suggesting that 
tuning
should begin with anything close to 4 watts.  I 
generally go thru 3 or 4
steps, but I start with my transceiver set to 
about 25 or 30 watts output.


Agreed. My Ten Tec Titans (a pair of triodes) 
drive with a bit less than 50W. I have tune 
settings for each amp for each band on a yellow 
sticky next to the amp, so I set those, then hit 
it with about 25W, tweak, run drive to see close 
to 1500, and retune for maximum smoke as 
indicated by the SWR/power meter. I tune with 
dits, so the duty cycle is 50%, less stress than 
full power carrier, but gives me correct tuning 
for full power.


On the other hand, if you're tuning an auto 
tuner like the KAT500, you want to tune it with 
drive power only, the amp off.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Tuning your radio and amplifier to your amtenna

[Jim Miller]

I always set my tuner first with only the radio into it and at 4 watts.
When it is good, increase the scale on the meter and enable the AL-1500Q amp
at 4 watts giving me 200 to 400 watts out and tune the amp and then tweek
the tuner if necessary.  4 in gives 400 out, 25 in gives 1500 out on some
bands - NO I am not going to start tuning at full power.

73, Jim KG0KP 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil
Wheeler
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 10:14 AM
To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Tuning your radio and amplifier to your amtenna

Good point in the "On the other hand", Jim. I'm not sure the original poster
specified
KPA500/KAT500 or a 3rd party amp -- and it does make a difference.

Phil W7OX

On 8/27/14, 10:50 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Wed,8/27/2014 9:22 PM, kd7gc wrote:
>> I have never heard of anyone suggesting that tuning should begin with 
>> anything close to 4 watts.  I generally go thru 3 or 4 steps, but I 
>> start with my transceiver set to about 25 or 30 watts output.
>
> Agreed. My Ten Tec Titans (a pair of triodes) drive with a bit less 
> than 50W. I have tune settings for each amp for each band on a yellow 
> sticky next to the amp, so I set those, then hit it with about 25W, 
> tweak, run drive to see close to 1500, and retune for maximum smoke as 
> indicated by the SWR/power meter. I tune with dits, so the duty cycle 
> is 50%, less stress than full power carrier, but gives me correct 
> tuning for full power.
>
> On the other hand, if you're tuning an auto tuner like the KAT500, you 
> want to tune it with drive power only, the amp off.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Tuning your radio and amplifier to your amtenna

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

Well, I have to put in my 2 cents worth.   First off, putting a carrier on the 
air to tune/test/analyze a antenna is probably not the correct thing to do.  
The reason is simple, if it is a new antenna you have no idea what the R and X 
numbers are for where the j0 point is, correct?  Then with all of the antenna 
analyzers out there, take a look at the antenna wideband  That's right, 
wideband.  Why spend endless amounts of time trying to "Tune Match" the antenna 
and cause unnecessary signals on the air if you don't have to??

Second, use the modern tools available.  And not just a ATU.  The whole idea of 
putting up a antenna is to understand what it is and how best to put RF power 
into it.  Sure the ATU can match an antenna that is a MegaHertz high in 
frequency and at your target frequency it is 200 ohms.  Why not use a 4:1 balun 
and make the ATU not absorb the loss of matching?

OK, My method is not new, but I think it serves repeating.  

New amplifier.  Not automatic, one that requires band and tuning settings.  DO 
it into a dummy load, write down the numbers.  

Take the analyzer and find out where the antenna is resonant.  Yes, it will be 
more efficient if it is resonant where you want to operate. 

Of course if it is a weird configuration, then at least write down the R and X 
numbers for the frequencies of interest.  

Then take the steps necessary to limit the loss in the system.  Baluns if 
necessary, tuners of your choice.  But use the analyzer to "tune and match" the 
antenna, record the numbers. 

Then hook up the radio, amplifier, tuner, etc and if necessary fine tune the 
final settings and record them for future use.

Next time you decide to switch bands just use the presets you recorded.  Less 
interference on the bands, and less stress for the equipment.  


OK, There is my 2 cents worth, like someone else said, back into my hole.  


Mel, K6KBE



On Thursday, August 28, 2014 9:54 AM, Jim Miller  
wrote:
 


I always set my tuner first with only the radio into it and at 4 watts.
When it is good, increase the scale on the meter and enable the AL-1500Q amp
at 4 watts giving me 200 to 400 watts out and tune the amp and then tweek
the tuner if necessary.  4 in gives 400 out, 25 in gives 1500 out on some
bands - NO I am not going to start tuning at full power.

73, Jim KG0KP 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil
Wheeler
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 10:14 AM
To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Tuning your radio and amplifier to your amtenna

Good point in the "On the other hand", Jim. I'm not sure the original poster
specified
KPA500/KAT500 or a 3rd party amp -- and it does make a difference.

Phil W7OX

On 8/27/14, 10:50 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Wed,8/27/2014 9:22 PM, kd7gc wrote:
>> I have never heard of anyone suggesting that tuning should begin with 
>> anything close to 4 watts.  I generally go thru 3 or 4 steps, but I 
>> start with my transceiver set to about 25 or 30 watts output.
>
> Agreed. My Ten Tec Titans (a pair of triodes) drive with a bit less 
> than 50W. I have tune settings for each amp for each band on a yellow 
> sticky next to the amp, so I set those, then hit it with about 25W, 
> tweak, run drive to see close to 1500, and retune for maximum smoke as 
> indicated by the SWR/power meter. I tune with dits, so the duty cycle 
> is 50%, less stress than full power carrier, but gives me correct 
> tuning for full power.
>
> On the other hand, if you're tuning an auto tuner like the KAT500, you 
> want to tune it with drive power only, the amp off.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Tuning your radio and amplifier to your amtenna

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,8/28/2014 10:39 AM, Mel Farrer wrote:
First off, putting a carrier on the air to tune/test/analyze a antenna 
is probably not the correct thing to do. 


If I understand the original post, this discussion is not about a new 
antenna, it's about tuning an amplifier when changing bands. It's 
something I would do several times during a contest, and before doing 
it, I listen to find a clear frequency. If I can't get the amp tuned in 
10 seconds or so starting from settings I've written down, something's 
wrong.


73, Jim K9YC
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