[Elementary-dev-community] Fwd: Python API for panel applets?

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

PopOver is a widget from the elementary Granite library. I don't think it
has been ported to Python yet. You could check out if the Granite lib can
be found in the python gir. Otherwise i wouldn't know how to implement it
in Python.

--
Jaap

-- Forwarded message --
From: Benjamin Trias 
Date: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Python API for panel applets?
To: Jaap Broekhuizen 


Okay. What is then popover thing? You have more info about it maybe? Can I
do that with  python?
Can I otherwise work on the applet as a a stand alone application and worry
about integrating it with the panel  later?

Cheers

Benjamin
On Oct 7, 2013 11:07 AM, "Jaap Broekhuizen"  wrote:

> Slingshot does not make use of the appindicator library. It just looks
> like one because it is also wrapped in a granite popover widget, like the
> indicators.
> Op 7 okt. 2013 03:59 schreef "Benjamin Trias" :
>
>> Hello again,
>>
>> I found out how to make a simple applet using the PyGi AppIndicator3
>> library.
>>
>> Now it seems AppIndicator does not allow arbitrary widgets in menus (most
>> threads will lead me back to this:
>> http://askubuntu.com/questions/16431/putting-an-arbitrary-gtk-widget-into-an-appindicator-indicator
>> )
>>
>> Yet the current indicator menus on Pantheon do contain slide bars and
>> search boxes etc (such as Slingshot, Sound Indicator and the Synapse
>> Indicator too).
>>
>> How did you get Slingshot to contain arbitrary widgets?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Benjamin
>>
>>
>> On 6 October 2013 15:39, Alex Lourie  wrote:
>>
>>> Benjamin
>>>
>>> What panel are you talking about? The wingpanel?
>>>
>>> If so, you can either use libindicators from Ubuntu project, or wait
>>> until we get a new API in order for Isis and further. Probably without
>>> python APIs first.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Benjamin Trias <
>>> jesuisbenja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I recently migrated to eOS Luna. Great work! I love it.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to contribute a little. I have basic experience with Python
>>>> and a little Bash. With this I'd like to work on applets for the panel.
>>>>
>>>> Is there an API for Python to build panel applets?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Benjamin
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alex Lourie
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

So you want us to document how to build a "elementary style" app in any
possible language? Thanks but no thanks. IMHO we should provide generic
goals and guidelines as to how an application should work and what it
should look like, and preferably describe a set of tools with which you
could achieve that. Vala is just the tool elementary agreed upon to use for
core apps, and it makes sense to use that knowledge to also create third
party apps. If you prefer to use different tools for third party apps,
that's entirely OK. But it makes no sense to try to document any possible
tool with which you could make an elementary style app.

--
Jaap


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Jakob Eriksson wrote:

> Then there is an education / PR problem on the elementary.org page.
>
> It should be made clear how to make a HIG compliant app in any (where
> any=C++, hehe) language.
>
>
>
> On 2013-08-21 23:32, Albert Palacios Jimenez wrote:
> >
> > I think there are some misunderstandings:
> >
> > - The HIG is a must for core elementary OS applications but a
> recommendation for third party ones.
> >
> > - If you develop your application using a Model/View/Controller schema,
> it will be easy to make it look like an elementary OS just changing the
> View and leaving the original sources for Models and Controllers.
> >
> > This is why a lot of applications work across different systems, they
> get the "view/look" from the core libraries and work with a non "core"
> language.
> >
> > This is an appropriate way of developing applications, it works well not
> only for Linux but also for OSX, Windows, iOS, Android, ...
> >
>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Beta2 review from Dedoimedo

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Also, afaik we have already discussed this article a few weeks ago?

--
Jaap


On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:

> FYI this is a review of beta1, not beta2. Judging by the screenshots, he
> didn't care to update the system either, and most complains are about quite
> obvious beta bugs.
>
> I also disagree with dedoimedo's review methodology, but that's a
> different story.
>
>
> 2013/5/18 ttosttos Sa 
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Do a quick search for elementary OS on Google and second link should be
>> dedoimedo's review for Luna Beta2.  I'd highly recommend a read.  You can't
>> control what other's write and some of their points may be wrong/unfair
>> (some completely miss the point in my opinion).  In any case, it's good to
>> stop and see where they have a valid point.  Criticism helps you improve.
>>  It may be good to reach out to them to educate or communicate how some of
>> the issues will be addressed.  That review isn't really good press and
>> is prominently displayed by Google.
>> Cheers
>>
>> ttosttos
>> --
>>
>> --
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>>
>
>
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> OS architect @ elementary
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Weird string in Noise Translations

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Sounds like someone should create a bugreport about this and mark it
bitesize.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Jaap Broekhuizen

Aquamarijnstraat 273
9743 PG  Groningen

jaap.broekhuizen.nu
jaap...@gmail.com
06 - 39 81 36 97


On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Hakan Erduman  wrote:

>  Let me have a guess:
>
> the string isn't for translation, it is for ordering artist names:
>
> Before:
> A Flock Of Seagulls
> Die Toten Hosen
> Los Lobos
> The Beatles
>
> After:
> Beatles, The
> Flock Of Seagulls, A
> Lobos, Los
> Toten Hosen, Die
>
> So the string must be unmarked for translation.
>
> wkr,
>
> Hakan
>
> Am 15.05.2013 12:32, schrieb Alfredo Hernández:
>
> Yes, that would also be very useful. Sometimes you can deduct what %s
> means and therefore localise the string accordingly, but sometimes you just
> must use a neutral phrase because you don't know what it refers to.
>
> Regards, Alfredo.
> On 15 May 2013 12:06, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" <
> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>
>>  Developers: please add comments for translators on all non-obvious
>> strings like this one!
>>
>> Also please add translator comments on all strings with substitutions
>> (e.g. "%s") so that translators know what the %s is replaced with.
>> Here's how it looks in code:
>> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-apps/noise/trunk/view/head:/src/Views/ListView/ListView.vala#L379
>>  And here's how translators see it:
>> https://translations.launchpad.net/noise/trunk/+pots/noise/ru/139/+translate
>>
>> Info on adding Gettext translator comments can be found at
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettext#Programming
>>
>> Or, better yet, use string templates instead of %s and other printf
>> substitutions. It's much more readable for everyone:
>>  Code:
>> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementary-apps/noise/trunk/view/head:/core/LibrariesManager.vala#L130
>>  Translation:
>> https://translations.launchpad.net/noise/trunk/+pots/noise/ru/1/+translate
>>
>>  More info on string templates can be found at
>> https://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial#Strings
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/5/15 Alfredo Hernández 
>>
>>>   Hi guys,
>>>
>>>  There's a very strange string in Noise translations that doesn't make
>>> any sense to me (as a translatable string): *the|a|an|le|la|les|un|une|
>>> der|die|das|los *(string No. 45). It doesn't even give any clue of what
>>> is the purpose of it and what it means.
>>>
>>>  May you have a look at it?
>>>
>>>  Thanks in advice,
>>>  Alfredo.
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>> OS architect @ elementary
>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Test Driven Development

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Interesting, I added your repo to the doc if you don't mind :)

Met vriendelijke groet,

Jaap Broekhuizen

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06 - 39 81 36 97


On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Dane Henson  wrote:

> Thanks for setting up that document.  I've already added a few things and
> commented a bit.  I have been toying with GTest (GLib.Test) a bit, but
> haven't been substantially impressed by it yet.  You can see my noodling
> with it at 
> lp:~thegreatdane/+junk/agenda-tests<https://code.launchpad.net/~thegreatdane/+junk/agenda-tests>.
>  It's not much, but it might give someone an idea of how to set up cmake
> for this sort of thing.  That's what took me the longest and it's probably
> still wrong, but it works :P.
>
> The code being tested is trivial, just something to play with based on an
> idea I had for agenda, so don't be overly critical please.
>
> mkdir build; cd build
> cmake ..
> make
> make test
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 3:26 AM, Jaap Broekhuizen wrote:
>
>> Pal, that looks very interesting, please do upload it to launchpad so we
>> can have a closer look :)
>>
>> In te mean time, I have created a google document to have a central point
>> of investigation for elementary automated testing. Feel free to add
>> information to the doc whenever you can, but please keep it clean! :) You
>> can find it here:
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cTsWpeT0h4FD81T-xs4bEWlALsO__j3rL1A7iB-SWz0/edit
>>
>> I haven't found any BDD frameworks yet, but I have found some interesting
>> testing frameworks.
>>
>> I think I'll set up a testing branch for granite some day later this
>> week, maybe test out the different frameworks so we can see what suits us
>> best. If anyone else wants to start setting up a branch like that, you are
>> of course free to do so ;)
>>
>> --
>> Jaap
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 3:08 AM, Pál Dorogi  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> You can use cmake for unit test as it supports GLib's test. I use
>>> MonoDevelop/Xamarin Studio for developing for huge projects coexists
>>> /w cmake (as MD/XS does not support cmake). MD is for rapid
>>> development but there is no internal Unit to support vala but C#
>>> (Nunit) and some other languages. So, I run some cmake command before
>>> and after MD build which runs cmake for cmake build and run test. For
>>> example:
>>>
>>> before build: cmake .. in /build/ dir
>>> after build in MD: run build/test/unit_test
>>>
>>> I added CMakeLists.txt into my MD project and I just need to sync
>>> betwwen MD and that file when I add or remove a Vala source file
>>> into/from the MD.
>>>
>>> I do not know how would it works /w launchpad as I do not know how its
>>> packaging works /w cmake's unit test, but I think it should work.
>>> You just need add some stanza in the project's root CMakeList.txt like
>>> this, but it's not simpe as it's using some other features like
>>> external projects and so on.
>>> set (PROJECT_TEST tests)
>>>
>>> ...
>>> enable_testing (true)
>>> add_subdirectory (${PROJECT_TEST})
>>>
>>> and add create some CMakeList.txt in the ./test dir
>>>
>>> ###
>>> # Sources
>>>
>>> ###
>>> set (UNIT_TESTS unit_tests)
>>>
>>> set (VALA_SOURCES
>>> Model/Address.vala
>>> Model/Person.vala
>>> Model/Gender.vala
>>> ValidatorTest.vala
>>> TestMain.vala
>>> )
>>>
>>> set (PKG_DEPS gtk+-3.0 glib-2.0 gee-1.0)
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> # set (CMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE ON)
>>> set (CMAKE_FIND_LIBRARY_SUFFIXES .so)
>>>
>>> # External Packages definitions.
>>> set (EXTERN_PROJ dafunit)
>>> set (EXTERN_SOURCE_DIR src)
>>>
>>> set (INTERN_PROJ dafvalidation)
>>> set (INTERN_SOURCE_DIR ${PROJECT_SOURCE})
>>>
>>> include (ExternalProject)
>>>
>>> ExternalProject_Add (${EXTERN_PROJ}
>>> #PREFIX ../../${EXTERN_PROJ}
>>> SOURCE_DIR ../../../${EXTERN_PROJ}
>>> BINARY_DIR ${CMAKE_BINARY_DIR}/${EXTERN_PROJ}/build
>>> INSTALL

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Test Driven Development

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

n
> this week
>
> On 29 April 2013 07:19, Lochlan Bunn  wrote:
> > I have read alot about TTD, both in school and in persistent articles.
> I've
> > used it to develop a small gui based game, and I can say that I liked the
> > flow once I was used to it. I used JUnit & Eclipse, and that was all that
> > was needed the whole time.
> >
> > So when it comes to elementary dev, and vala/gtk/linux dev in general,
> I'd
> > be interested in reading/learning how to write unit test (suites) for
> vala
> > in respects to both CI, a la Launchpad, packaging, and moreso in an IDE.
> >
> >
> > On 27 April 2013 07:48, Craig  wrote:
> >>
> >> I agree wholeheartedly. And as Cassidy mentioned, we can use scratch as
> >> the incubation project.  Would any devs be interested in volunteering to
> >> learn? Jaap, would you be interested in helping instruct?
> >>
> >> On Apr 26, 2013 3:25 PM, "Jaap Broekhuizen"  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I also think implementing Behavorial testing (applying BDD) is very
> >>> relevant for us, as we are focussing a lot on user interface and
> >>> interaction.
> >>>
> >>> So imo we should start on a project which we can use as a playground
> for
> >>> both unit an behavorial testing.
> >>>
> >>> Does anyone know of good vala bdd frameworks?
> >>>
> >>> Jaap
> >>>
> >>> Op 26 apr. 2013 22:21 schreef "Cassidy James" <
> cass...@elementaryos.org>
> >>> het volgende:
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think we need any convincing; everything I've heard from the
> >>>> devs is that we need to do this. It's just a matter of figuring out a
> common
> >>>> way of doing it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Craig, a relatively small/new project that could use testing is the
> new
> >>>> Scratch or even the new work going on with Contractor. Both are (from
> what I
> >>>> understand) fresh codebases and now might be the time to work  on
> tests. I
> >>>> recommend you hop into #elementary-dev and work with the devs on
> getting
> >>>> some tests worked out.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Cassidy
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 26, 2013 11:04 AM, "Pál Dorogi"  wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I dunno, I am a newbie here.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 26 April 2013 22:24, Craig  wrote:
> >>>>> > That's exactly what I'd like to know: how can I help. I can try and
> >>>>> > post
> >>>>> > some tutorials, but I'd like to know who is interested and what the
> >>>>> > development community already knows.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > On Apr 26, 2013 6:39 AM, "Pál Dorogi" 
> wrote:
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Hi Craig,
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> I agree 100% /w you, but I think you should write some tutorials
> and
> >>>>> >> post them in your blog, if you have any. But in my opinion that
> the
> >>>>> >> human beings do not like "re-learn" things and the real OOP,
> Design
> >>>>> >> Patterns, SOLID, TDD etc. etc. are very steep and time for a
> >>>>> >> non-real
> >>>>> >> OOP/DP experienced Programmer/Developer.
> >>>>> >> Also, the learning curve is very steep for these advanced stuffs
> and
> >>>>> >> needs long time to get there. But, nobody would not know how good
> >>>>> >> are
> >>>>> >> they until haven't learnt and used those stuffs, would they?.:)
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> I did sine similar things, getting some new fresh things (TDD,
> >>>>> >> MvvM/Presentation Model Design Pattern) to programming in Vala
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> ((
> http://ilapstech.blogspot.com/2013/04/advanced-programming-in-vala-dafs.html
> )
> >>>>> >> but you should keep in mind that this kind of new things (TDD, DP,
> >>>>> >> SOLDI, MVVM etc. etc.) are like evolution (evolution in
> Programming)
> >>>>> >> which nee

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] A Possible bug

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Along with elementary-specific updates, elementary OS also gets package
updates from ubuntu. So it is possible ubuntu updated their single sign-on
packages, nothing to worry about :)

--
Jaap

On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Ramana Venkata wrote:

> Okay. Presently I am running elementaryOS from liveUSB. I tried to check
> updates through update-manager just to know how much old the version of iso
> I have from the present stable one. In the list of updates there a few
> updates relating to Ubuntu single sign-on. Should they be present in that
> list? I tried to see in system settings there is no mention of Ubuntu
> Single sign-on.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 5:37 AM, Cody Garver wrote:
>
>> It's too soon to know for sure, but most likely Wayland since we use
>> GNOME tech and they chose Wayland.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 7:05 PM, Ramana Venkata 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Since, Ubuntu is creating it's own display server Mir. I tried to check
>>> for posts relating to Mir in mailing list but I found one only thread (I
>>> may have missed something). I want to know what happens to elementaryOS.
>>> Wayland or Mir which one will be chosen?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 5:27 AM, Cody Garver wrote:
>>>
 This is a bug in X and the only solution is Wayland. Please report bugs
 on the elementary bug tracker from 
 now on.


 On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 6:52 PM, Ramana Venkata >>> > wrote:

>  Its only as long as the the popup is open. The print screen key
> works fine after that.
>
> I was trying to report some bug to Noise Bug list. Then I wanted a
> screen shot where I have to show the pop-up.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 5:04 AM, Gufran  wrote:
>
>> Welcome abroad :)
>> What do you mean by the key doesn't work after right clicking on dock
>> item (Plank dock, I guess). Does it stop working at all or just dont work
>> for as long as the popup is open ?
>>
>> Are you trying to do something that is expected or just trying stuff
>> ?
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 4:40 AM, Ramana Venkata <
>> idlike2dr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I am new here. I have been a ubuntu user for more than 2 years or so.
>> I came to know about elementary OS 2 days back. I fell in love with its
>> user interface. I want to thank all you for giving us a great OS.
>>
>> I couldn't use print screen key of my Laptop (Lenovo G560 i3 1st Gen)
>> after right clicking on a dock icon. I don't whether it is a bug or not 
>> so
>> I am reporting it here.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Venkata Ramana K.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Venkata Ramana K.
> Sophomore,
> Indian Institute of Science,
> Bangalore, India.
>
> --
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>
>


 --
 Cody Garver

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Venkata Ramana K.
>>> Sophomore,
>>> Indian Institute of Science,
>>> Bangalore, India.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cody Garver
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Venkata Ramana K.
> Sophomore,
> Indian Institute of Science,
> Bangalore, India.
>
> --
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> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
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>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Test Driven Development

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

I also think implementing Behavorial testing (applying BDD) is very
relevant for us, as we are focussing a lot on user interface and
interaction.

So imo we should start on a project which we can use as a playground for
both unit an behavorial testing.

Does anyone know of good vala bdd frameworks?

Jaap
Op 26 apr. 2013 22:21 schreef "Cassidy James" 
het volgende:

> I don't think we need any convincing; everything I've heard from the devs
> is that we need to do this. It's just a matter of figuring out a common way
> of doing it.
>
> Craig, a relatively small/new project that could use testing is the new
> Scratch or even the new work going on with Contractor. Both are (from what
> I understand) fresh codebases and now might be the time to work  on tests.
> I recommend you hop into #elementary-dev and work with the devs on getting
> some tests worked out.
>
> Regards,
> Cassidy
> On Apr 26, 2013 11:04 AM, "Pál Dorogi"  wrote:
>
>> I dunno, I am a newbie here.
>>
>> On 26 April 2013 22:24, Craig  wrote:
>> > That's exactly what I'd like to know: how can I help. I can try and post
>> > some tutorials, but I'd like to know who is interested and what the
>> > development community already knows.
>> >
>> > On Apr 26, 2013 6:39 AM, "Pál Dorogi"  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Craig,
>> >>
>> >> I agree 100% /w you, but I think you should write some tutorials and
>> >> post them in your blog, if you have any. But in my opinion that the
>> >> human beings do not like "re-learn" things and the real OOP, Design
>> >> Patterns, SOLID, TDD etc. etc. are very steep and time for a non-real
>> >> OOP/DP experienced Programmer/Developer.
>> >> Also, the learning curve is very steep for these advanced stuffs and
>> >> needs long time to get there. But, nobody would not know how good are
>> >> they until haven't learnt and used those stuffs, would they?.:)
>> >>
>> >> I did sine similar things, getting some new fresh things (TDD,
>> >> MvvM/Presentation Model Design Pattern) to programming in Vala
>> >>
>> >> ((
>> http://ilapstech.blogspot.com/2013/04/advanced-programming-in-vala-dafs.html
>> )
>> >> but you should keep in mind that this kind of new things (TDD, DP,
>> >> SOLDI, MVVM etc. etc.) are like evolution (evolution in Programming)
>> >> which needs some time to get it succeeded (or failed).:)
>> >>
>> >> On 26 April 2013 20:36, Craig  wrote:
>> >> > Hello everyone,
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm just leaving San Jose after having spent a week listening to a
>> lot
>> >> > of
>> >> > smart people talk about, among other things, Test Driven Development
>> >> > (TDD).
>> >> > I know I keep harping on this, but among the people who write the
>> >> > coolest,
>> >> > best software (and other average software folks) TDD is seen as
>> >> > absolutely
>> >> > critical. I can't point to anything other discipline in the software
>> >> > world
>> >> > that is of comparable importance. And here's why:
>> >> >
>> >> > When we start writing software, we can manage it with a couple of
>> >> > developers, perhaps all the way up through the first release;
>> however,
>> >> > as we
>> >> > add features, our software becomes more complex. It's hard for us to
>> >> > remember what parts of our programs worked well before and what parts
>> >> > are
>> >> > broken. We often make changes to the underlying architecture to
>> >> > facilitate a
>> >> > new feature, but we're not exactly sure if in doing so, we broke an
>> >> > existing
>> >> > feature. And we'll of course do a little ad hoc manual testing to
>> verify
>> >> > that things still work, but we're only going to really check 5-10% of
>> >> > the
>> >> > code that we most suspect would break. And even if we do power
>> through,
>> >> > we're only going to ever check 60-70% of the code, and it's all a
>> very
>> >> > slow,
>> >> > unreliable process. Soon we spend all of our time fighting bugs and
>> we
>> >> > can
>> >> > never get around to any interesting work. Does this pattern sound
>> >> > familiar?
>> >> >
>> >> > With TDD, you write a simple, small test for every piece of
>> interesting
>> >> > code
>> >> > you write, and every time you rebuild the project, all of your old
>> tests
>> >> > run. If you're writing good tests, you can be assured that all of
>> your
>> >> > code
>> >> > works as you intend it to every single time you build, and if someone
>> >> > merges
>> >> > in a bug, it will be caught immediately (and the test that fails will
>> >> > give
>> >> > you some good information about what broke/where the bug is hiding).
>> >> >
>> >> > Of course, it takes time to write tests; however, it's still much
>> less
>> >> > time
>> >> > than you would spend debugging your code. Furthermore, when you write
>> >> > tests
>> >> > before you write your production code, you are forced to design your
>> >> > code
>> >> > modularly just to make it testable. Among software professionals,
>> TDD is
>> >> > seen as the fastest way to write software. I mean, Luna has been 90%
>> >> > complete for 90

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Vala/Go

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Afaik that should be no problem, as the crux of Vala is that it actually is
just c. Vala gets compiled to c first, and then gets compiled using gcc for
example.
So of course c should be able to use vala libraries.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Jaap Broekhuizen

Aquamarijnstraat 273
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On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Craig  wrote:

> Many languages support binding to C (probably more common than GObject
> introspection), so if it works with C, other high level OOP languages can
> bind to it without needing support for GObject introspection. :-)
> On Apr 8, 2013 10:58 AM, "Nishant Agrwal" 
> wrote:
>
>> Granite is written in Vala, so I guess any gObject Introspection capable
>> language should be very easy to use, especially those with dynamic binding,
>> like Python. As far as C goes, Vala compiles to C anyway so that should be
>> pretty easy as well, although I don't think most people would like to use C
>> instead of a high level OOP language.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:24 PM, Craig  wrote:
>>
>> That brings me to a question I've had for a while--I'm not sure what goes
>> into creating a C binding for any language, but is it possible to create a
>> C binding to granite? If so, your proposal would be limited only by the
>> availability of granite bindings. On the other hand, though I think
>> Elementary development has a substantial barrier of entry, I don't know
>> Elementary's goals of simplicity and consistency would be especially
>> well-served by fragmenting the tools used. On the *other* other hand, it
>> could also bring a lot of developer attention to the project, albeit
>> Elementary's relatively small community, I think it would be difficult to
>> find enough people to create and maintain bindings for all of those
>> languages. Thoughts?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Jakob Eriksson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think there should be a tutorial for writing an Elementary HID
>>> compliant app in all popular languages,  Java, Python, C++, Go, Objective C
>>> and Ruby at least.
>>>
>>> Craig  skrev:
>>>
>>> >@Chris, Syntactically, I think Vala is a great language. I'm dying to
>>> use
>>> >it, in fact! However, until I can get over the nasty project-management
>>> >hump, I'm afraid I'm out of the loop. And don't think project management
>>> >features are useful only to building and distribution. How can an IDE
>>> know
>>> >which symbols are available outside of the current file (for purposes
>>> such
>>> >as code verification, autocompletion, etc) without knowing something
>>> about
>>> >what files are available to the project? Decent project management
>>> features
>>> >are an important aspect of a language (for all kinds of purposes), and
>>> when
>>> >they are missing, non-standard, or overly complex; it makes the language
>>> >impractical.
>>> >
>>> >@Sergey, I'm not confusing the two. As I mentioned in my response to
>>> Chris,
>>> >the two issues are linked--it's impractical to develop an application
>>> >without a simple, automatic project metadata management tool and Vala
>>> >doesn't seem to have one (I can't find _any_ information about bake
>>> online).
>>> >
>>> >To address your last paragraph, I don't know what the crux of the issue
>>> is
>>> >(nor what the best solution is), but useful programs haven't been single
>>> >files for decades; it's archaic to treat the project management
>>> concerns of
>>> >development as an afterthought when developing languages. Like you said,
>>> >why expose the developer to that unnecessary complexity? I have yet to
>>> find
>>> >a better paradigm than Go's for mitigating that concern.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Ryan Macnish >> >wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Go is brilliant, it has the best parts of c and the best parts of
>>> modern
>>> >> languages built in.
>>> >> On Apr 8, 2013 9:22 PM, "Craig"  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Happy Monday everyone,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I wrote a brief comparison of Vala and Go (golang) that might be of
>>> >>> interest to some of you. Feel free to add your thoughts i

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Vala/Go

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Regardless of whether i agree with some of the thoughts in your article, I
don't really see why we are discussing Vala vs Go in the Elementary
Developer Mailing list.

We are using Vala as a tool to develop applications, and so far it has been
great using it. It does what we want to do, has good syntax and has good
support for about every library that is of the slightest significance.

Let's not discuss this further here, but please comment on the article of
the original post. I personally think this does not fit in this list.

--
Jaap


On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Ryan Macnish wrote:

> Go is brilliant, it has the best parts of c and the best parts of modern
> languages built in.
> On Apr 8, 2013 9:22 PM, "Craig"  wrote:
>
>> Happy Monday everyone,
>>
>> I wrote a brief comparison of Vala and Go (golang) that might be of
>> interest to some of you. Feel free to add your thoughts in the comments.
>> http://craigmatthewweber.com/2013/04/06/vala-or-go/
>>
>> Enjoy,
>> Craig
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Testing

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

We do unit and behavorial testing at where i work, and i think it's great.
Writing tests before you develop the actual feature really makes you think
why your feature should do what and when it should do so.

Maybe we could build vala tests for granite. That would mean we would have
to write tests for existing features too, but when that is done, we can
implement features with first creating a test (a spec) for it, and then
actually implementing it according to the spec. We could then integrate
some kind of continuous integration using something like Travis (if it does
vala), or if launchpad offers that functionality, we can use that.

If it works for granite, we could slowly and steadily move to testing in
all elementary projects.

I think this would in the long term greatly improve stability of the system
and individual apps, will encourage good and maintainable code and
architecture of apps, and it would make elementary developing more
professional.

Just my 2 cents...

Jaap
Op 4 apr. 2013 16:11 schreef "Dane Henson"  het
volgende:

> Here is another practical post I found interesting regarding setting up
> Unit Tests in Vala with Cmake:
>
>
> http://blog.remysaissy.com/2012/11/setting-up-unit-tests-in-vala-project.html
>
> I apologize for spamming the mailing list.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>
>> I strongly recommend anyone interested in automated testing to read
>> through Martin Pitt's Ubuntu Dev Week session on the topic. He's the one
>> responsible for most of unit testing in Ubuntu (he's also the author of
>> Apport which we already use). His IRC nick is "pitti" and the session logs
>> can be found at
>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/01/31/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>> OS architect @ elementary
>>
>
>
> --
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] How to review and merge branches

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

I agree with Victor. Consistency matters because it makes readability and
therefore maintainability better.

--
Jaap
Op 1 apr. 2013 09:09 schreef "Victor"  het
volgende:

> Coding style is a subjective topic, and that's why discussing which one
> works best is completely pointless, since it's a matter of preferences.
> It's like discussing what is the best color.
>
> What is important is consistency, and that's why all the new code proposed
> for merging should follow elementary's coding style guidelines (which are
> not published anywhere in the site as far as I know). Whenever you propose
> code that is styled inconsistently it only gives the impression that you
> were coding in a hurry, and we don't want to accept that kind of code, even
> though we have a ton of it already.
>
> Thanks for your attention,
> Victor.
>
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Craig  wrote:
>
> How do you figure? The go language community uses one and they rave about
> it. We use them at work (c++) as well and its uses an obnoxious style, but
> it's still more readable than a dozen different conventions.
> On Mar 31, 2013 5:39 AM, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" <
> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm afraid automatic "prettifiers" are a terrible idea because blindly
>> restyling the code usually makes it lose any remains of readability it used
>> to have. In other words, automatically restyled code is even less readable
>> than code with a foreign coding style.
>>
>>
>> 2013/3/31 David Gomes 
>>
>>> I wrote this in order to check for code style errors, but it's not
>>> perfect it's just a help-tool:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/elementary/vala-analyzer
>>>
>>> We have 'considered' using a prettifier too, but I just use Emacs to fix
>>> some stuff on my code - a prettifier script would be too much work and I
>>> don't know of any libraries that would help me with the task.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:34 AM, Craig  wrote:
>>>
 Good work David. Have you (elementary) considered using a prettifier to
 standardize a code style upon pushing to your trunk?
  On Mar 28, 2013 7:17 PM, "Cody Garver"  wrote:

> Cool, it's pretty thorough.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 7:58 AM, David Gomes 
> wrote:
>
>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19899464/reviewstutorial.html
>>
>> Hello guys,
>>
>> From time to time somebody still has doubts on how to use Launchpad
>> and Bazaar to review and merge branches to trunk so I wrote a tutorial.
>> Note though that it may need expansion.
>>
>> Many times, even experienced developers who have been in the Apps
>> Team for a long time make mistakes so even if you already know how to do
>> it, reading the tutorial won't hurt.
>>
>> I also recommend that all developers that in the future are to join
>> the Apps Team read this several times because even though we can always
>> revert messed-up commits, it's better to do it right at the first time.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> David "Munchor" Gomes
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cody Garver
>
> --
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>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>> OS architect @ elementary
>>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] UI Freeze

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

I have kind of the same problem, but with the latest Spotify...

Met vriendelijke groet,

Jaap Broekhuizen

Aquamarijnstraat 273
9743 PG  Groningen

jaap.broekhuizen.nu
jaap...@gmail.com
06 - 39 81 36 97


On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:08 AM, ttosttos Sa  wrote:

> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1157786
> Just rolled back to 3.2.0-38.  let's see how it goes.
>
> ttosttos
> --
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 6:51 PM, Donnie McNeal wrote:
>
>> Hi all, It's my first post to the board. I've been silently following
>> along for a couple of months now. Just wanted to say I love what you guys
>> are doing with elementary.
>>
>> In regards to the topic on head - I noticed the same issue and rolled
>> back the kernel update to a previous kernel and haven't had the problem.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Cassidy James 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've noticed this, along with a few other people on Google+. It seems to
>>> be an issue with the latest kernel update and Intel graphics. :-/
>>> On Mar 25, 2013 7:31 PM, "ttosttos Sa"  wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Last few weeks, I've been experienced a catastrophic UI freeze.
>>>>  Basically, entire UI becomes non-responsive (no response to mouse events,
>>>> no response to hotkeys).  Only responsive desktop element is the pointer,
>>>> which  still moves.  Only way to recover is a reboot.  It happens a couple
>>>> of times a week. So far, it seems to be triggered when clicking on a
>>>> launcher on Plank.  Let me know if you have some suggestions on what info
>>>> to capture and how to narrow down, so I can file a bug.
>>>> Cheers.
>>>>
>>>> ttosttos
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>>
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>>>
>>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Vala Analyzer

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Ironically written in python :P

Met vriendelijke groet,

Jaap Broekhuizen

Aquamarijnstraat 273
9743 PG  Groningen

jaap.broekhuizen.nu
jaap...@gmail.com
06 - 39 81 36 97


On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 2:05 PM, David Gomes  wrote:

> Hello guys,
>
> I'd just like to let you all know about Vala 
> Analyzer<https://github.com/elementary/vala-analyzer>.
> It analyzes Vala source files for coding style errors (see DISCLAIMER).
>
> Obviously, it doesn't work like the human eye, and never will, but it's an
> useful script to run on files before you merge them.
>
> Feel free to contribute if you want to or let me know about bugs and
> things you'd like to see implemented on Github, IRC or by email.
>
> David "Munchor" Gomes
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] panel architecture

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Theyre called plugs because they are built wit Gtk.Plug( and Gtk.Socket).
Op 16 dec. 2012 21:24 schreef "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" <
ser...@elementaryos.org> het volgende:

> It's Switchboard and its panels are called plugs (I'm not really sure why).
>
> Well, yes, we were discussing it, but we didn't come to any decision.
> I, for one, do not support this idea :P
>
> 2012/12/16 Sergio Costas :
> > I talk about the "System preferences" panel, and (AFAIK) the LIBPEAS
> > library, which will be used, among others, to migrate the plugin system
> > in Gedit (https://live.gnome.org/Gedit/Libpeas).
> >
> > I think I read somewhere that you were discussing migrate it to LibPeas,
> > but not sure...
>
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> OS architect @ elementary
>
> --
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Files bugs

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

What to do with feature requests like this one though?
https://bugs.launchpad.net/pantheon-files/+bug/1070425

--
Jaap

Op di, nov 27, 2012 at 9:36 ,David Gomes  schreef:
The elementaryos project suffers from that too. I do know Cody was trying to 
triage many Files's bugs though.


On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Mario Guerriero  wrote:
Hi,

I have just noticed that Files bug situation is terribel. We have 119 new bugs 
and a lot of blueprints to accept. It is like a neglected project. 

Could anyone help me confirming or not the bugs? I would like to fix something.

Best regards,
Mario 

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Files bugs

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

I'll help you do some bug management :)

Op di, nov 27, 2012 at 9:04 ,Mario Guerriero  schreef:
Hi,

I have just noticed that Files bug situation is terribel. We have 119 new bugs 
and a lot of blueprints to accept. It is like a neglected project. 

Could anyone help me confirming or not the bugs? I would like to fix something.

Best regards,
Mario 

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Rename app launchers

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

@Cody: i meant the Generic Name discussion

--
Jaap

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Mario Guerriero wrote:

> @Cody it would affect all the languages if the new string will be added to
> the .pot template.
>
> Sent from my iPhone 5
>
> Il giorno 24/nov/2012, alle ore 06:36, Cody Garver 
> ha scritto:
>
> @Jaap this was the plan until today:
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/noise/+spec/noise-rename
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Cody Garver wrote:
>
>> Would the patches only affect English?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Jaap Broekhuizen wrote:
>>
>>> We already had this discussion a few times, i don't know what the
>>> decision was though.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jaap
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Alfredo Hernández <
>>> aldomann.desi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It seems to be an excellent approach to the problem by now, in that way
>>>> they still keep their package codenames. However the renaming of the
>>>> codenames should be studied in Luna+1.
>>>> El 23/11/2012 19:31, "Mario Guerriero"  escribió:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>>
>>>>> discussing with Victor about the Noise's renaming issue I suggested
>>>>> him to not rename anything. We can use a "little workaround" to fix this
>>>>> issue. We should put a .diff in deb-packaging branch in order to patch the
>>>>> .desktop launcher to change its name to Music.
>>>>>
>>>>> The same should be done with Scratch, Maya and Geary using the generic
>>>>> names. ("Text editor", "Calendar", "Mail").
>>>>>
>>>>> Victor said he likes this approach. What do you think?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Mario
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cody Garver
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cody Garver
>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Rename app launchers

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

We already had this discussion a few times, i don't know what the decision
was though.

--
Jaap


On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Alfredo Hernández <
aldomann.desi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It seems to be an excellent approach to the problem by now, in that way
> they still keep their package codenames. However the renaming of the
> codenames should be studied in Luna+1.
> El 23/11/2012 19:31, "Mario Guerriero"  escribió:
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> discussing with Victor about the Noise's renaming issue I suggested him
>> to not rename anything. We can use a "little workaround" to fix this issue.
>> We should put a .diff in deb-packaging branch in order to patch the
>> .desktop launcher to change its name to Music.
>>
>> The same should be done with Scratch, Maya and Geary using the generic
>> names. ("Text editor", "Calendar", "Mail").
>>
>> Victor said he likes this approach. What do you think?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mario
>>
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[Elementary-dev-community] Back button for switchboard

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

I saw Andrea did a proposal for adding a nice back button on switchboard a
few months ago: https://bugs.launchpad.net/switchboard/+bug/1039269

I think this is a good idea to implement, because it looks great, and the
current implementation with a  button that keeps switching between an arrow
and a "home" button is a bit weird. I had to think about how that worked
and i don't think we want that :)

So what do you guys think of this?

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] VA-API in Audience/elementary?

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Much better than previous version of GStreamer, or better than mplayer?

--
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On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 11:39 AM, David Nielsen  wrote:

>  I believe that GStreamer 1.0 has much better support for GPU
> acceleration.
>
> --
> David Nielsen
> Sent with Sparrow 
>
> On Thursday den 22. November 2012 at 04.09, Cody Garver wrote:
>
> GStreamer needs to support hardware-accelerated playback in order for
> Audience/Totem to.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:26 PM, Cassidy James  wrote:
>
> Hey guys, I was just reading about hardware acceleration support in
> MPlayer and was wondering if anyone knew anything about it.
>
> http://www.webupd8.org/2012/11/install-mplayer-with-va-api-hardware.html
>
> It'd be sweet to get hardware acceleration for video in Audience to
> significantly reduce memory usage on some graphics chipsets. Unless I'm
> totally mistaken and Audience already supports this, what would it take to
> get this in it by default?
>
> Regards,
> Cassidy James
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Post Beta Hangout on Air

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

If i can get my webcam/mic working then i'm in!

Op wo, nov 21, 2012 at 11:05 ,Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff 
 schreef:
2012/11/21 Sam Tate : 
> If anyone has any spare time in the coming week, we could do a Hangout on 
> Air to address any questions people may have about Luna. We need to make 
> sure that this ran more smoothly than the attempt at Hangout number 2, so we 
> need a list of who's doing it (if anyone at all) 

Not me. I don't have any time to spare during the next few weeks. 

-- 
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Geary about dialog

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Right, I'll look into it then somewhere in the near future.

Op di, nov 20, 2012 at 10:18 ,Daniel Foré  schreef:
As in, not a hard dependency on Granite. So if Granite is available, it would 
build the granite version, but if it's not available it would build the stock 
GTK version.


On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Jaap Broekhuizen  wrote:
What do you mean by "conditionally"? :)

Op di, nov 20, 2012 at 10:07 ,Daniel Foré  schreef:

Hey Jaap,

Yorba is willing to accept patches that conditionally add Granite support into 
Geary. So if someone wanted to write a patch (like we've done with ThinPaned) 
that would be fantastic :)

IIRC, the toolbar button problem is a result of their use of Glade. For some 
reason Glade is forcing homogenous toolbar buttons. I'm sure they'd be willing 
to look at any patches we had to work around this issue as well.


On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Jaap Broekhuizen  wrote:
Is geary going to have a Granite about dialog?
Also the geary ToolButtons in the toolbar all seem to be wider than those in 
other apps, which breaks consistency.

Do we have the "power" to change these things before luna-beta2?

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Renaming Noise

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

I am pretty sure that we already had the Generic Name discussion on this 
mailing list before?

Op di, nov 20, 2012 at 10:15 ,Sam Tate  schreef:
I'm all for just going the GNOME Direction and calling it "Music". This applies 
to all other apps (some are already like this, such as Files and Terminal). It 
is just so much simpler for the user to see something like "Web" rather than 
"Midori" (which has nothing to do with the web).

So yeah, "Music" ftw.


On 20 November 2012 21:05, Daniel Foré  wrote:
Just my two cents:

It'd be really easy to just call it "Music" and not worry about it any longer 
haha.

I don't think we should translate the name unless we're going with "Music". 
Translating a "branded" name would kind of defeat the purpose, IMO and (as 
previously pointed out) could lead to some not-so-nice translations.

I didn't really intend Noise to be a serious name, but I don't have any massive 
problems with it either. I do agree with Victor that if we're going to do a 
name change it needs to happen as soon as humanly possible.


On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Jose Luis Navarro  
wrote:
@Victor +1

El 19/11/2012 19:42, "xapantu"  escribió:

Le 19/11/2012 17:43, Benjamin VanMeggelen a écrit :
I understand the issue with the translation. >From what I understand (as french 
being my second language) the translation from Noise to french is Bruit. I'm 
not sure if the application titles have been (or will be) translated, but if so 
"Bruit" gives the same proper description of what Noise is in english.
I hope it doesn't, IIRC "bruit" is much more negative than noise. "bruit" is 
just something you don't want to hear, when you say music is "bruit", it means 
that the music is very, very bad. And no, the names aren't (or shouldn't?) be 
translated ;)
(But as Corentin said, "noise" is not much better than "bruit" is french 
anyway.)

Lucas


On Mon, 19 Nov, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Corentin Noël  wrote:
Okay, I disagree with you all then because in my language (french) there is two 
way to pronounce that :
In french, and that word exists and means "problems"
In english, and that is really hard because there is an double voyel (no-ise) 
so it's not that good for us.
I let the democracy choose, but here are my two cents.

Regards,
Corentin Noël (tintou)

Benjamin VanMeggelen a écrit :

>I also agree that Noise is an appropriate name for the player. I feel that 
>this naming scheme is most relevant to the player, as opposed to Tempo or some 
>of the others that have been mentioned. Noise seems more generic and 
>straight-forward as to what the app is meant to do.
>
>On Mon, 19 Nov, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Felix Akkermans wrote:
>I also agree with Jaap. Both names are equal to me in communicational value, 
>so definitely not worth the effort and hassle.
>
>On 11/19/2012 03:46 PM, Chris Triantafillis wrote:
>I agree with Jaap and i'm against rename it...
>Also i don't like Tempo, Noise is much better...
>
>
>2012/11/19 Jaap Broekhuizen 
>Don't we already present Noise in the OS as a music player? Doesn't the icon 
>have the purpose of showing the user what the app probably does?
>
>IMO "Noise" relates more to music than "Tempo" does. Also, if we are going 
>this way with Noise because the name should directly show people what the app 
>does, we should probably rename Geary and Midori too. And the makers of 
>Empathy, Skype, Spotify, Steam, Firefox, Opera, Launchpad, Google Plus, 
>Banshee, Clementine should probably have to start to think about a new name 
>too.
>
>When we moved from Beatbox to our own fork the choice was made to name it 
>"Noise". That already resulted in some confusion among the users. Renaming it 
>again will only yet again result in more confusion.
>
>There will always be people who say a certain name is not good for the app, or 
>that it is weird. The same will happen when you rename it to "Tempo", or any 
>other name for that matter. 
>
>IMO Noise should only be renamed if there is a really, really good reason to, 
>and some users complaining it may sound negative is a good reason, i think. 
>Also when you choose to rename it, the new name should be significantly better 
>than the old name, if you want to show the confused users that it was really 
>necessary and useful to make the change.
>
>Just my two cents,
>Jaap
>
>Op ma, nov 19, 2012 at 3:14 ,David Gomes schreef:
>
>It's trivial to you because you know what Noise is. It's a media player, you 
>know it.
>
>For people who don't, it's better if that name it is installed under in the 
>computer is "Musi

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Geary about dialog

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

What do you mean by "conditionally"? :)

Op di, nov 20, 2012 at 10:07 ,Daniel Foré  schreef:
Hey Jaap,

Yorba is willing to accept patches that conditionally add Granite support into 
Geary. So if someone wanted to write a patch (like we've done with ThinPaned) 
that would be fantastic :)

IIRC, the toolbar button problem is a result of their use of Glade. For some 
reason Glade is forcing homogenous toolbar buttons. I'm sure they'd be willing 
to look at any patches we had to work around this issue as well.


On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Jaap Broekhuizen  wrote:
Is geary going to have a Granite about dialog?
Also the geary ToolButtons in the toolbar all seem to be wider than those in 
other apps, which breaks consistency.

Do we have the "power" to change these things before luna-beta2?

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Switchboard Restructure

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

On a practical note, how is this going to scroll? Sure, in this mockup it all 
perfectly fits, but what happens when "Hardware section gets more items? Does 
the complete view scroll, or only the seperate sections?

What happens when we suddenly decide to add another section, which can 
evidently not fit next to the System section?

Possibility is also that one section may have a lot of plugs, and another only 
2 or 3, which may result in a lot of wasted screen real estate, and a lot of 
scrolling.

It looks nice like this, but I don't think it would be very practical 
considering the pluggable nature of Switchboard.

--
Jaap

Op di, nov 20, 2012 at 9:46 ,Sam Tate  schreef:
@Cody,

I saw that and I wondered why. It'd be good if we can get him to comment on why 
he Disapproved it :)


On 20 November 2012 20:38, Cody Garver  wrote:
This was proposed for merge before and Disapproved by DanRabbit.


On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:36 PM, David Gomes  wrote:
>obviously
I prefer this very much and don't see why not for Luna as long as no bugs are 
associated with it.


On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Sam Tate  wrote:
How do we all feel about this new layout for Switchboard? Obviously this isn't 
for Luna, but I think it's really nice, and we can switch (heh) to it in L+1.

Objections? 

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[Elementary-dev-community] Geary about dialog

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Is geary going to have a Granite about dialog?
Also the geary ToolButtons in the toolbar all seem to be wider than those in 
other apps, which breaks consistency.

Do we have the "power" to change these things before luna-beta2?

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Renaming Noise

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

@David:
Just "Midori". But I can recall a discussion on this mailing list about calling 
certain important apps "File Browser" and "Web Browser" in slingshot, among 
others. I don't know what the result of that discussion was though.

@Victor:
Well, we already have a few thousand users, and renaming a core app like that 
will create confusion. Sure we are still pretty far away from an actual 
release, but there are already a lot of people using the beta. If you are going 
to change the name, the appropriate press and social media will have to be used 
to be clear about this. So: a journal post, facebook, twitter and google plus, 
and if we are lucky, an OMG! Ubuntu post. I am also pretty sure that when you 
are going to rename your app on launchpad you will have issues that you did not 
think of before, just because launchpad is not the most user friendly website, 
with features hidden all over the place. 

That, plus the renaming of every branding and package etcetera just looks like 
a lot of hassle, if the only issue is that there are a few people who don't 
really like the name, like you say.

Unless there is a big group of people who are actually considering not using 
Noise, just because the name might have a negative tendency, i don't think that 
is really a valid reason to change the name.

Still, Melody is also a cool name, and if you really like that name better, and 
you want to go through all the hassle and journal posts etcetera to clarify it, 
I'm not going to stop you ;)

--
Jaap


Op ma, nov 19, 2012 at 6:27 ,David Gomes  schreef:
I thought we were doing it already, what is Midori installed under?


On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Alfredo Hernández  
wrote:
David, if we did that with Noise, it should be done with every elementary 
application.

El 19/11/2012 18:02, "David Gomes"  escribió:

I wouldn't call this a rename. The App name would be Noise, for all effects, 
but it would be installed under the name of Media Player.


On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Darcy Brás da Silva 
 wrote:
I think that translating names would only make sense if the names were
like 'web browser, media player, and so on' else they are primary nouns
and so not translatable.

I think there is no gain in changing the name at this point, else then
showing project immaturity. At this point the name already changed once,
and was due to developer conflict of interests. Changing again may just
lead to confusion and make people think that it happened again. Even
with proper disclaimers is to easy to pass the wrong message.
Not to mention some people contributed to a previous pool when the name
'noise' was selected, now a pool made in FB a contrived medium which a
lot of good people don't use for whatever reasons they deem does not
seem fair to the community that contributed before or the ones that
don't use FB.

Those are my two cents on this matter.

On Mon, 2012-11-19 at 16:38 -0005, Benjamin VanMeggelen wrote:
> I understand the issue with the translation. From what I understand
> (as french being my second language) the translation from Noise to
> french is Bruit. I'm not sure if the application titles have been (or
> will be) translated, but if so "Bruit" gives the same proper
> description of what Noise is in english.
>
>
> On Mon, 19 Nov, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Corentin Noël 
> wrote:
> > Okay, I disagree with you all then because in my language (french)
> > there is two way to pronounce that :
> > In french, and that word exists and means "problems"
> > In english, and that is really hard because there is an double voyel
> > (no-ise) so it's not that good for us.
> > I let the democracy choose, but here are my two cents.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Corentin Noël (tintou)
> >
> > Benjamin VanMeggelen a écrit :
> >
> > >I also agree that Noise is an appropriate name for the player. I
> > feel that this naming scheme is most relevant to the player, as
> > opposed to Tempo or some of the others that have been mentioned.
> > Noise seems more generic and straight-forward as to what the app is
> > meant to do.
> > >
> > >On Mon, 19 Nov, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Felix Akkermans wrote:
> > >I also agree with Jaap. Both names are equal to me in
> > communicational value, so definitely not worth the effort and
> > hassle.
> > >
> > >On 11/19/2012 03:46 PM, Chris Triantafillis wrote:
> > >I agree with Jaap and i'm against rename it...
> > >Also i don't like Tempo, Noise is much better...
> > >
> > >
> > >2012/11/19 Jaap Broekhuizen
> > >Don't we already present Noise in the OS as a music player? Doesn't
> > the icon have the purpose of showing the us

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Renaming Noise

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Don't we already present Noise in the OS as a music player? Doesn't the icon 
have the purpose of showing the user what the app probably does?

IMO "Noise" relates more to music than "Tempo" does. Also, if we are going this 
way with Noise because the name should directly show people what the app does, 
we should probably rename Geary and Midori too. And the makers of Empathy, 
Skype, Spotify, Steam, Firefox, Opera, Launchpad, Google Plus, Banshee, 
Clementine should probably have to start to think about a new name too.

When we moved from Beatbox to our own fork the choice was made to name it 
"Noise". That already resulted in some confusion among the users. Renaming it 
again will only yet again result in more confusion.

There will always be people who say a certain name is not good for the app, or 
that it is weird. The same will happen when you rename it to "Tempo", or any 
other name for that matter. 

IMO Noise should only be renamed if there is a really, really good reason to, 
and some users complaining it may sound negative is a good reason, i think. 
Also when you choose to rename it, the new name should be significantly better 
than the old name, if you want to show the confused users that it was really 
necessary and useful to make the change.

Just my two cents,
Jaap

Op ma, nov 19, 2012 at 3:14 ,David Gomes  schreef:
It's trivial to you because you know what Noise is. It's a media player, you 
know it.

For people who don't, it's better if that name it is installed under in the 
computer is "Music Player" or something like that. It's easier for most people.


On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Jaap Broekhuizen | Mobiel  
wrote:
What is "many"? Seems like a trivial thing to me...

--
Jaap

"Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" schreef:

>2012/11/19 Jaap Broekhuizen :
>> Is there an actual logical reason to rename Noise?
>
>"Noise" is perceived as something negative by many (the kind of people
>who are not crazy about metal or industrial), that's it AFAIK.
>
>--
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>OS architect @ elementary
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Renaming Noise

[Jaap Broekhuizen | Mobiel]

What is "many"? Seems like a trivial thing to me...

--
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"Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" schreef:

>2012/11/19 Jaap Broekhuizen :
>> Is there an actual logical reason to rename Noise?
>
>"Noise" is perceived as something negative by many (the kind of people
>who are not crazy about metal or industrial), that's it AFAIK.
>
>-- 
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>OS architect @ elementary
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Renaming Noise

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Is there an actual logical reason to rename Noise?

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On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 3:59 AM, Victor Eduardo wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> many months ago we were discussing the possibility of renaming 
> Noiseto something else. If I recall correctly, 
> there was a Facebook poll that
> resulted in *"Tempo"* being the preferred name.
>
> The blueprint is 
> here
> .
>
> I think that if we're ever going to do this, it needs to happen before *Luna
> beta-2.*
> *
> *
> What are your thoughts on the topic?
>
> Regards,
> Victor
>
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[Elementary-dev-community] Slingshot luna beta 1

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Hey guys,

Looks to me as though all the luna-beta1 bugs are fixed for Slingshot, so
who is in charge of pushing out an updated release for it?

Also, does someone somewhere have one clear overview of todo items that
have to be done before the release of Luna Beta 1? Ofcourse there is the
bug and blueprint overview on the elementary launchpad page, but surely
there are other things that need to be done too?

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Pre-Beta Translations Sprint

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Good point, I am currently writing an e-mail to every current member of the
team asking for an example of their language skills, and will un-accept
(:P) those that seem not capable enough.

--
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On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 8:04 PM, David Gomes  wrote:

> I really would prefer it if members weren't accepted without confirmation
> of their language skills. If you checked them, alright then, thanks :)
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Jaap Broekhuizen wrote:
>
>> Weird because I am sure I have not received those mails, did they send it
>> to this e-mail address? Anyways, I have already accepted the requests for
>> membership that were open, also Thomas Berends!
>>
>> I'm going to look at the translation suggestions that are open now for
>> some projects :)
>>
>> --
>> Jaap
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:55 PM, David Gomes wrote:
>>
>>> JAAPZ!!
>>>
>>> Gotwig and Thomas Berendes both told me they emailed you and that you
>>> didn't reply them. Please contact Thomas Berends, who has applied himself
>>> for the Dutch team, he seems to be a good Dutch speaker and active member.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Jaap Broekhuizen wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Dutch for example, has been highly criticized all over elementary OS
>>>>> and Jaapz has been unreachable for a long time
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am still following the project using this mailing list, and have been
>>>> replying every now and then to posts.
>>>> If anyone wanted to reach me they should just have mentioned my name on
>>>> this mailing list, or even contact me over google plus or something like
>>>> that. You can't say I am unreachable if none has even tried to reach me...
>>>>
>>>> Anyways, I am all for multiple administrators for the translators team.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jaap
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Alfredo Hernández <
>>>> aldomann.desi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Also, we should establish guidelines about the style used so that the
>>>>> user feels the same experience with the whole elementary OS desktop. For
>>>>> instance, the Save dialogues are not the same in all the apps.
>>>>> El 01/11/2012 19:25, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" <
>>>>> ser...@elementaryos.org> escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Before we ask for any translation at all we should review existing
>>>>>> English text because not all developers are native English speakers 
>>>>>> and/or
>>>>>> can express themselves clear enough for end users. Then we should 
>>>>>> announce
>>>>>> a string freeze.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2012/11/1 David Gomes 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, it's not only Norwegian in Noise. Dutch for example,
>>>>>>> has been highly criticized all over elementary OS and Jaapz has been
>>>>>>> unreachable for a long time. He is the only administrator of the Dutch 
>>>>>>> team
>>>>>>> too. Gotwig and I have been considering putting ourselves in every team 
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> that situations like this one don't get repeated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know I keep going on about this, but a custom translation team is a
>>>>>> bad idea and the sooner we disband it and swap for the Launchpad team, 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> better. Everybody who's interested in reviewing elementary translations
>>>>>> specifically should apply for membership in the Launchpad translators 
>>>>>> team
>>>>>> for their language.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>>>>> OS architect @ elementary
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>>>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Pre-Beta Translations Sprint

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Weird because I am sure I have not received those mails, did they send it
to this e-mail address? Anyways, I have already accepted the requests for
membership that were open, also Thomas Berends!

I'm going to look at the translation suggestions that are open now for some
projects :)

--
Jaap

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:55 PM, David Gomes  wrote:

> JAAPZ!!
>
> Gotwig and Thomas Berendes both told me they emailed you and that you
> didn't reply them. Please contact Thomas Berends, who has applied himself
> for the Dutch team, he seems to be a good Dutch speaker and active member.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Jaap Broekhuizen wrote:
>
>>  Dutch for example, has been highly criticized all over elementary OS and
>>> Jaapz has been unreachable for a long time
>>
>>
>> I am still following the project using this mailing list, and have been
>> replying every now and then to posts.
>> If anyone wanted to reach me they should just have mentioned my name on
>> this mailing list, or even contact me over google plus or something like
>> that. You can't say I am unreachable if none has even tried to reach me...
>>
>> Anyways, I am all for multiple administrators for the translators team.
>>
>> --
>> Jaap
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Alfredo Hernández <
>> aldomann.desi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Also, we should establish guidelines about the style used so that the
>>> user feels the same experience with the whole elementary OS desktop. For
>>> instance, the Save dialogues are not the same in all the apps.
>>> El 01/11/2012 19:25, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" <
>>> ser...@elementaryos.org> escribió:
>>>
>>>> Before we ask for any translation at all we should review existing
>>>> English text because not all developers are native English speakers and/or
>>>> can express themselves clear enough for end users. Then we should announce
>>>> a string freeze.
>>>>
>>>> 2012/11/1 David Gomes 
>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, it's not only Norwegian in Noise. Dutch for example,
>>>>> has been highly criticized all over elementary OS and Jaapz has been
>>>>> unreachable for a long time. He is the only administrator of the Dutch 
>>>>> team
>>>>> too. Gotwig and I have been considering putting ourselves in every team so
>>>>> that situations like this one don't get repeated.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know I keep going on about this, but a custom translation team is a
>>>> bad idea and the sooner we disband it and swap for the Launchpad team, the
>>>> better. Everybody who's interested in reviewing elementary translations
>>>> specifically should apply for membership in the Launchpad translators team
>>>> for their language.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>>> OS architect @ elementary
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Pre-Beta Translations Sprint

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

>
>  Dutch for example, has been highly criticized all over elementary OS and
> Jaapz has been unreachable for a long time


I am still following the project using this mailing list, and have been
replying every now and then to posts.
If anyone wanted to reach me they should just have mentioned my name on
this mailing list, or even contact me over google plus or something like
that. You can't say I am unreachable if none has even tried to reach me...

Anyways, I am all for multiple administrators for the translators team.

--
Jaap

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Alfredo Hernández <
aldomann.desi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Also, we should establish guidelines about the style used so that the user
> feels the same experience with the whole elementary OS desktop. For
> instance, the Save dialogues are not the same in all the apps.
> El 01/11/2012 19:25, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" 
> escribió:
>
>> Before we ask for any translation at all we should review existing
>> English text because not all developers are native English speakers and/or
>> can express themselves clear enough for end users. Then we should announce
>> a string freeze.
>>
>> 2012/11/1 David Gomes 
>>
>>> Unfortunately, it's not only Norwegian in Noise. Dutch for example, has
>>> been highly criticized all over elementary OS and Jaapz has been
>>> unreachable for a long time. He is the only administrator of the Dutch team
>>> too. Gotwig and I have been considering putting ourselves in every team so
>>> that situations like this one don't get repeated.
>>>
>>
>> I know I keep going on about this, but a custom translation team is a bad
>> idea and the sooner we disband it and swap for the Launchpad team, the
>> better. Everybody who's interested in reviewing elementary translations
>> specifically should apply for membership in the Launchpad translators team
>> for their language.
>>
>> --
>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>> OS architect @ elementary
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
> --
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> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Window Maximize Concept

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

When i want to maximize, i want to maximize. I don't want to resize a
window to a certain size where the contents exactly fit the window. I
really just want to have my window filling the desktop. This is also the
behaviour everyone expects, and a pretty big change of User Experience if
you change this behaviour...

--
Jaap


On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Craig  wrote:

> I agree with David wholeheartedly. OSX maximize blows. It behaves
> unexpectedly and is horribly dysfunctional. OSX even implemented fullscreen
> mode as a sort of concession.
> On Sep 23, 2012 2:30 PM, "David Gomes"  wrote:
>
>> I completely disagree. First of all, this is one of the most hated design
>> decisions of OS X.
>>
>> Secondly, we want users to have a welcoming experience from other distros
>> and operating systems (namely Windows 95+)
>>
>> Now, another argument which has been presented by shnatsel is that not
>> all windows have fixed width/height, some of them are dynamic and the width
>> they need when you maximize a window might not be the same some time later.
>>
>> It could be an option, but I hope never the default behavior.
>>
>> Regards,
>> David "Munchor" Gomes
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Tahseen Jamal 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Team elementaryOS,
>>>
>>> I have a request. Differentiate your maximize from other distros. I
>>> think when I click on Maximize, I don't expect the window to cover the
>>> whole desktop. What I expect it to do is just have enough expansion to
>>> remove horizontal scroll bar and the height would also proportionately
>>> increase. Thus not unnecessarily covering the whole desktop
>>>
>>> You would observe the same thing in Mac OSX also.
>>>
>>> There is no point maximizing the window completely. Just should be
>>> enough to have no horizontal scroll bar
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: 
>>> https://launchpad.net/~**elementary-dev-community
>>> Post to : 
>>> elementary-dev-community@**lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : 
>>> https://launchpad.net/~**elementary-dev-community
>>> More help   : 
>>> https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelp
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
> --
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> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
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>
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[Elementary-dev-community] Reddit post about Gala

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

There is another reddit thread going on in reddit.com/r/linux about
elementary, this time about Gala!

You can find it here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/zxnjc/meet_gala_the_window_manager_for_elementary_os/

Thought you guys should know ;)

--
Jaap
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Strategy regarding pantheon-files

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

If keeping the relationship marlin/pantheon-files open creates more work
than fixing the bugs ourselves, i think the only logical option is to break
compatibility.

--
Jaap


On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:45 AM, Cody Garver  wrote:

> As you and I heard from Xapantu the other day, he does not have the time
> to maintain upstream compatibility. He was the only one
> interested/investing in the relationship. Our only option now is to break
> the relationship and do what we have to to produce the best project we can.
>
> Thanks for bring this up.
>
> On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Mario Guerriero wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think that currently our biggest problem is to find a solution for the
>> developing process of pantheon-files. Let me to explain it better.
>>
>> When we started to develop Files we decided to follow Marlin's
>> development and merge our file manager with all new code from the
>> ammonkey's one but now the compatibility is broken. Previously we was able
>> to merge them easily, without any addictional working, but now, after
>> merging them, Files needs a lot of changing to resolve all the conflicts
>> which could destroy all our work on it. I think that if we want to continue
>> to have our good file manager there are two possible solutions:
>>
>>1. We can ask ammonkey to get back (again?) but it won't be realized
>>for sure.
>>2. We can switch to Marlin for Luna.
>>3. We can break all the relationships between Marlin and Files code
>>and continue our development alone
>>
>> I think that the best proposal is the last one, even if we don't have a
>> lot of manpower.
>>
>> This question should be solved before the beta release so please let me
>> to know your idea to continue Files developing soon.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mario
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cody Garver
>
> --
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] EggListBox

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

They used it in empathy (3.6?) for the contacts view.

--
Jaap


On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:40 AM, Cassidy James  wrote:

> Just looked into it a bit further. Looks like it's being used in relation
> with GNOME Contacts:
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-contacts-list/2012-May/msg0.html
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Cassidy James  wrote:
>
>> Dan, do you have an example of where it's used? Might be handy to show
>> the advantages of it.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Daniel Foré wrote:
>>
>>> Hey guys,
>>>
>>> Check out this new widget: http://git.gnome.org/browse/egg-list-box/
>>>
>>> Something about being able to pack different kinds of widgets and not
>>> having to worry about custom cell renderers like GTKTreeView and stuff. I
>>> dunno. Sounded interesting. I'm sure someone will appreciate this better
>>> than I have any idea wtf it actually is.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Daniel Foré
>>>
>>> elementaryos.org
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
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>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Still, how is the revenue model just a webdesign decision?


On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Daniel Foré  wrote:

> Yes I am. I really think direct-democracy is just a bad idea.
> Historically, we've made good decisions by having the people most involved
> in the topic make the call.
>
> When we're talking about a decision around our developer story, It's best
> to consult with our developers.
>
> When we're talking about a decisions around our design story, it's best to
> consult with our designers.
>
> With our Web story, our web team.
>
> Our translations, our (admittedly new) translation team.
>
> Requiring that everyone have a say in everything is not only going to lead
> to un-informed decisions, but it's going to slow our process way down.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Scott Ringwelski wrote:
>
>> Dan, are you asking why elementary should follow a democratic, whole-team
>> decision making process rather than a more centralized decision making
>> process?
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Daniel Foré wrote:
>>
>>> As it turns out, we have families and lives and jobs and
>>> responsibilities outside of elementary. That means that we're not always
>>> able to meet every week and discuss every issue.
>>>
>>> In my personal opinion, this is a web design issue and not something
>>> that needs to be run through you first for approval. But I'd be interested
>>> to find out from other people why they think we need to directly
>>> democratize our web design or any design for that matter.
>>>
>>> If you're upset because you can't get your demands met on a certain time
>>> schedule I'm afraid there's nothing I can do for you. You may not be aware,
>>> but this week celebrates our independence in the US. So there's a lot of
>>> family flooding in and I'm super busy juggling my very extended family. I
>>> can guarantee I won't be able to make the meeting again this Saturday
>>> because it's also my mother's birthday.
>>>
>>> I wish you luck in your next endeavor and hope you don't harbor any ill
>>> will towards elementary. You're always welcome back at any time.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Сергей Давыдов wrote:
>>>
 Okay, it's been a week. In addition, a Council meeting should have
 taken place three days ago. This seems to be quite enough time to
 settle on something and write a reply.

 To speed up the discussion, I stop pretending that everything is all
 right and cease any work on elementary till I receive an answer to my
 question.

 --
 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Daniel Foré
>>>
>>> elementaryos.org
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Daniel Foré
>
> elementaryos.org
>
>
> --
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> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
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>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Daniel,

Although i think you raise a good point with the family stuff, you sound a
little hostile to me and i think you might have brought the same message
somewhat more professional. I must say that Sergey's tone in this
discussion (at least in this mail thread) so far has been a lot more
reasonable than yours.

I personally think Sergey raises a good point and deciding on the model
elementary uses to get some revenue is certainly not "just a webdesign
issue". At least I, and I think a lot other developers too, have never
heard of any discussion about this matter until now, so maybe it is not
that weird that Sergey didn't know about it either. But you say the
discussion took place 6 months ago, so are there any notes of the meetings
in which this was discussed?


Just my two cents...

--
Jaap

On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Daniel Foré  wrote:

> As it turns out, we have families and lives and jobs and responsibilities
> outside of elementary. That means that we're not always able to meet every
> week and discuss every issue.
>
> In my personal opinion, this is a web design issue and not something that
> needs to be run through you first for approval. But I'd be interested to
> find out from other people why they think we need to directly democratize
> our web design or any design for that matter.
>
> If you're upset because you can't get your demands met on a certain time
> schedule I'm afraid there's nothing I can do for you. You may not be aware,
> but this week celebrates our independence in the US. So there's a lot of
> family flooding in and I'm super busy juggling my very extended family. I
> can guarantee I won't be able to make the meeting again this Saturday
> because it's also my mother's birthday.
>
> I wish you luck in your next endeavor and hope you don't harbor any ill
> will towards elementary. You're always welcome back at any time.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Сергей Давыдов  wrote:
>
>> Okay, it's been a week. In addition, a Council meeting should have
>> taken place three days ago. This seems to be quite enough time to
>> settle on something and write a reply.
>>
>> To speed up the discussion, I stop pretending that everything is all
>> right and cease any work on elementary till I receive an answer to my
>> question.
>>
>> --
>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Daniel Foré
>
> elementaryos.org
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
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>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Summoning designers upon bug reports

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

I think the best and easiest way would be just to use the tagging system,
like Sergey said, if that does what i think it does :)
I don't think it's a good idea to have one person everyone has to go to to
ask if he maybe could assign the bug to elementary-design, such a process
will take far longer than just tagging a bug, and also depending on one
person for something like this is always a bit tricky on the open source
community :)

I also think asking anyone (not just one person) from the elementery-design
team to mark a bug for designer input by elementary-design would still be a
tedious process, because you still have the second person who needs to do
some actions. It would be far easier to just tag the bug by the person who
thinks the bug needs designer input.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Jaap Broekhuizen

Aquamarijnstraat 273
9743 PG  Groningen

jaap.broekhuizen.nu
jaap...@gmail.com
06 - 39 81 36 97


On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 1:20 AM, Andrea Basso wrote:

> There are not many alternatives, I guess. Well, we could add some trusted
> guy to ~elementary-design and it'll be up to them mark those bugs as
> requiring designers' input.
>
> PROS:
>  - for everyone else, everything stays as it is now
>
> CONS:
>  - there are non-designer people in ~elementary-design (and thus they
> receive mails who're not addressed to them)
>  - only some trusted guys can mark bugs as requiring designers' input
>
> I don't really know which one is better...
>
> Regards,
> Andrea Basso
>
>
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:54:09 +0200, Сергей Давыдов 
> wrote:
>
>  Hey guys,
>>
>> as you have probably noticed, Launchpad no longer allows assigning a
>> team of which you are not a member of to bug reports, so we can no
>> longer use the established way of summoning designers upon bug
>> reports.
>>
>> The current convention served two things: first, it generated an extra
>> email to the thread asking designers to have a look at the bug.
>> Second, it provided an overview of bugs requiring designer input at
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~**elementary-design<https://bugs.launchpad.net/~elementary-design>
>>
>> As for a new convention, I guess bug tags will come in handy for
>> generating a list, and since they also generate an email about the tag
>> change (unless you disable it somewhere in LP settings), designers can
>> set up mail filters to separate those reports.
>>
>> Any other ideas for a new convention?
>>
>> --
>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary Translations Group and elementary Translations Instructions

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Then what is the point of translation teams?

--
Jaap


On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:

> I'd rather keep translations open till beta.
>
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> OS architect @ elementary
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Re : GPL Comment

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Christian said:

> For what it's worth, the name is meaningless to actual copyright
> disputes. I tend to like if I can see at a glance who's the person to
> talk to for a certain file.


If that is true, then i'd vote for just elementary, if this is not true
then of course we'd have to add the name of the developer who created the
file (and the name of developers who made huge changes). Are the names in
the copyright actually used by people to find out who made the file? Most
of the time it's just the name of the maintainer of a specific project, and
when someone is working on a project they will probably know who that
maintainer actually is. Now for something like granite, where a lot of
files are written by a lot of different people, there it would come in
handy, but i don't know how much of a necessity it would be in the other
projects. At least i cant think of projects that we have other than granite
where multiple devs do really big changes to files.

I could be wrong though :)

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On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 2:51 PM, xapantu  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> 2012/6/14 Jaap Broekhuizen 
>
>> I would vote the second one too, it looks cleaner IMHO, and i don't think
>> we need to have the names of the developers in the source file, those can
>> be found in the about dialog.
>>
> I doubt it is legal : how can you write that there is a copyright, which
> isn't assigned to anyone? No, you can't put the team name, it is not an
> official structure. The day we have a elementary trademark, entreprise, and
> everything, yes, it could work. It is called copyright assignment (and I am
> opposed to it, just keeping the names is good)...
>
> Lucas
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Re : GPL Comment

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

I would vote the second one too, it looks cleaner IMHO, and i don't think
we need to have the names of the developers in the source file, those can
be found in the about dialog.

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On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 1:28 AM, Christian Dywan wrote:

> Le 14.06.2012 00:46, Corentin a écrit :
> > The things I dislike on the first are :
> > * Your Name 
> > -> Because I don't think that there is only one person working on a
> > file, Put the team's name instead.
> > * The asterisk, they looks pretty on the second one.
>
> For what it's worth, the name is meaningless to actual copyright
> disputes. I tend to like if I can see at a glance who's the person to
> talk to for a certain file.
>
> I would refrain from deviating from existing wording without talking to
> an expert. There are several wordings around, but that doesn't mean you
> can freely change it without risk.
>
>
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[Elementary-dev-community] Reddit thread

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Hey guys,

You may already know this, but here's a heads-up anyway.
There is currently a thread going on on reddit.com/r/linux featurint the
now infamous elementary Luna ad:
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/uhbz1/open_macosx_is_ready_i_kid_it_is_elementary_os/
I saw Daniel was already replying actively there, but maybe some other guys
want to join in too :)

On the topic of reddit, we might want to do an AMA (Ask Me Anything) thread
when Luna is released, i think that is a great way to make more people know
about it!

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Last news from Maya

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

I can't test yet because at the moment i don't have access to an ubuntu
machine, but great work guys

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On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 11:15 PM, Corentin Noël  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Since the beginning of the month, Niels Avonds and me have worked hard to
> continue the Maya project.
> And now, fast a month after feature freeze, I have to say that target
> features are implemented.
>
> So why I am emailing you ?
> Because we need some feedbacks, tests, and reports from you. Just say if
> something is going wrong.
>
> Was was done since a month :
>  * The Calendar was partially rewritten and completely reorganised
>  * The Panel on the right side now works
>  * The Adding event dialog now works
>  * Exporting ical through Contractor
>  * Even more bugfixes…
>
> Thank you for reading,
> Corentin Noël
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] App Year

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

I think "2011, 2012" is the more standard way to do it?

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Verzonden vanaf mijn HTC Desire

David Gomes  wrote:

>jaapz juts noticed how most of apps have 2011 in the About Dialog. I
>suggest we put "2011-2012" or update to 2012? This is a rather easy fix,
>but we first need to decide if we put "2012" or "2011-2012".
>
>I vote for the "2011-2012".
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] SOPA

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

If someone could make a mockup of such a page, then i don't think the web
team would have any trouble creating a temporary static html page of
that... 7 days should be very doable! So only thing is that we have to
agree whether or not we want to do this...

I totally agree with doing this!

Jaap

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Daniel Fore wrote:

> Hey Guys,
>
> I guess Reddit is going to do a blackout on the 18th where the whole sight
> will be replaced with a single page describing what's wrong with SOPA and
> how you can contact Congress and fight it.
>
> I think we (even though we're small) could make a few waves by
> participating in this blackout and doing something similar.
>
> Best Regards,
> Daniel Foré
>
> www.elementaryos.org
>
> On Jan 10, 2012, at 12:57 PM, Daniel Foré  wrote:
>
> > I hardly think we wouldn't be affected by it. We use Facebook, Google
> (plus, docs, search, mail, etc), Twitter, YouTube, etc to reach our users
> and they are all affected.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Daniel Foré
> >
> > www.elementaryos.org
> >
> > On Jan 9, 2012, at 3:11 AM, Сергей  wrote:
> >
> >> I can't see SOPA/PIPA directly affecting elementary. We hardly have
> >> any user-posted content on the website, and the one we have tends to
> >> be freely licensed. We do rely on external services like imagebin,
> >> pastebin, etc, but that's not vital and we could probably host
> >> something similar ourselves. Fortunately, SOPA/PIPA don't seem to
> >> allow boundless patent abuse [yet], so Apple and Microsoft's puppet
> >> consorciums won't be able to instantly shut us down either, the best
> >> thing they can do is not mentioning us (like they do with WINE).
> >> So I'd rather not tie it into elementary and instead present it as
> >> being out of our scope and not affecting us directly, but crippling
> >> the overall UX.
> >>
> >> --
> >> shnatsel
> >>
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[Elementary-dev-community] Reddit and website suggestions

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Hey guys,

I hope you all are having great holidays!

A few days ago there was a topic about us on reddit and it has some nice
(and some less nice) comments, and suggestions:
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/nq2gn/poor_elementary_os_developers/

I think especially the following sub-thread is very important, it has
some good suggestions (mainly about the website):
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/nq2gn/poor_elementary_os_developers/c3b3km8

The main thing that is said is that we are lacking (quote) "[a] section
to explain in simple terms what it is and what their philosophy is". I
think it would be wise if we took the suggestions and really incorporate
them in our website.

I hope this is the right place to post this btw...

Jaap
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Coding Style - Parentheses and whitespace

[Jaap Broekhuizen]

Is there documentation on the current accepted coding style by the way?
Because the document on the elementary site is kind of
empty
...

Regards,
Jaap

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Allen Lowe  wrote:

> the correct format is option 1 I believe.
>
> Allen Lowe
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 8:50 AM, David Gomes 
> wrote:
> > I've been having this doubt ever since I joined the dev team:
> >
> > 1: printf ("Hello elementary devs\n");
> > 2: printf("Hello elementary devs\n");
> >
> > 1: var my_object = new Class ();
> > 2: var my_object = new Class();
> >
> > Which one is the one we adapted, with or without a space precending
> > parentheses? Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > David Gomes
> >
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