Re: [Elementary-dev-community] New GtkSwitch image

[Jakob Eriksson]

Indeed, checkboxes always worked for me too.

On May 24, 2013 at 9:00 PM Craig  wrote:
> Checkboxes always worked for me. I don't think the touchscreen revolution
> is responsible for the transition to switches (a checkbox is no less user
> friendly than a switch afaik).

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] New GtkSwitch image

[Craig]

Checkboxes always worked for me. I don't think the touchscreen revolution
is responsible for the transition to switches (a checkbox is no less user
friendly than a switch afaik).
On May 24, 2013 1:31 PM, "Jakob Eriksson"  wrote:

>
> Which I find incredibly confusing, at least on iOS.
> More than once I have misread it for its opposite.
>
> (It doesn't help that it seems to be pretty hard to "get
> a hold of" on iPhone, but that is another matter.
>
> I am not very fond of Xylons idea or skeumorphic stuff
> in general. To me the whole idea of skeumorphic is a
> false dicomoty between the "real" world and the "computer"
> world. Increasingly, the "real" world is computer
> controlled or interacts with computer interfaces.
>
> To a child born now, a picture of a light bulb is almost
> as quaint and old as a picture of kerosene lamp.
>
> There is no "skeumorphic". There is only "familiarity"
> (from any kind of experience) and "clarity".
>
> We can draw on familiarity, but only so far. When
> familiarity, we need at least clarity. So whatever
> we do, we should make it very clear that there is a
> difference.
>
> Since we talk about the ON/OFF button, we could hint
> not only with the button itself, but we could strike
> out the text describing the option we are turning off,
> or making the text gray, or any number of things.
>
> I started this mini-rant because I got worked up when
> someone brought the iOS on/off widget as an example
> of good design. It's not horrible, but it's far from
> good.
>
>
> The iOS interface in general and as a whole, I think,
> is pretty good.
> But it's not because it's skeumorphic, but rather
> because it is coherently designed and has few ways
> to interact with it, easily learned. Two year olds
> master the GUI and it's not because the draw on their
> knowledge of spiral bound note books and other
> "skeumorphic" interface hints.
>
> Also the iOS interface absolutely *depends* on the
> input touch digitizer being very good. The iOS interface
> would be utterly *useless* on some of the low resolution,
> both in dpi and sample rate, many of the cheaper
> Android phones use. An aspect often overlooked in UI
> design, IMHO.
>
> On the desktop we thankfully have a very high speed,
> high resolution input device called "the mouse".
> On the other, do we account for people with cheap laptops
> and really bad (too sensitive? dirty? small?) touchpad
> input devices?
>
> Is our interface great with those input devices too?
>
>
>
>
> On May 24, 2013 at 5:36 PM "Alfredo Hernández"  >
> wrote:
> > The one implemented in elementary OS, iOS, GNOME, OS X, Android...  The
> > on/off switcher is becoming a new standard since touch devices started
> > becoming a new frontier for UX design.
> > "It has become a standard in modern operating systems"
> >
> > Ehem...this is me being stupid, but what is the standard switch in
> current
> > modern operating systems anyway?
> >
> >
> > On 24 May 2013 15:15, Alfredo Hernández 
> wrote:
> >
> > > The current one is clear enough and It has become a standard in modern
> > > operating systems. I don't see the need to change it.
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > > On 24 May 2013 13:09, "A. "Xylon" V."  wrote:
> > >
> > >> I have an idea for a new GtkSwitch image in the eGtk theme. See the
> > >> attached file.
> > >>
> > >> This new GtkSwitch is skeuomorphic, and more intuitive from a user's
> POV
> > >> (I think anyway). The user can immediately tell what to do, as they
> can
> > >> relate to a light switch in real life, and therefore know the
> clicking on
> > >> it will turn the option on/off. This is not as obvious in the current
> > >> switch.
> > >>
> > >> However, I am not sure if this is possible to implement in Gtk3 css.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> My blog, yeaaah! 
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> > >> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> > >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > My blog, yeaaah! 
> > --
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
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>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] New GtkSwitch image

[Jakob Eriksson]

Which I find incredibly confusing, at least on iOS.
More than once I have misread it for its opposite.

(It doesn't help that it seems to be pretty hard to "get
a hold of" on iPhone, but that is another matter.

I am not very fond of Xylons idea or skeumorphic stuff
in general. To me the whole idea of skeumorphic is a
false dicomoty between the "real" world and the "computer"
world. Increasingly, the "real" world is computer
controlled or interacts with computer interfaces.

To a child born now, a picture of a light bulb is almost
as quaint and old as a picture of kerosene lamp.

There is no "skeumorphic". There is only "familiarity"
(from any kind of experience) and "clarity".

We can draw on familiarity, but only so far. When
familiarity, we need at least clarity. So whatever
we do, we should make it very clear that there is a
difference.

Since we talk about the ON/OFF button, we could hint
not only with the button itself, but we could strike
out the text describing the option we are turning off,
or making the text gray, or any number of things.

I started this mini-rant because I got worked up when
someone brought the iOS on/off widget as an example
of good design. It's not horrible, but it's far from
good.


The iOS interface in general and as a whole, I think,
is pretty good.
But it's not because it's skeumorphic, but rather
because it is coherently designed and has few ways
to interact with it, easily learned. Two year olds
master the GUI and it's not because the draw on their
knowledge of spiral bound note books and other
"skeumorphic" interface hints.

Also the iOS interface absolutely *depends* on the
input touch digitizer being very good. The iOS interface
would be utterly *useless* on some of the low resolution,
both in dpi and sample rate, many of the cheaper
Android phones use. An aspect often overlooked in UI
design, IMHO.

On the desktop we thankfully have a very high speed,
high resolution input device called "the mouse".
On the other, do we account for people with cheap laptops
and really bad (too sensitive? dirty? small?) touchpad
input devices?

Is our interface great with those input devices too?




On May 24, 2013 at 5:36 PM "Alfredo Hernández" 
wrote:
> The one implemented in elementary OS, iOS, GNOME, OS X, Android...  The
> on/off switcher is becoming a new standard since touch devices started
> becoming a new frontier for UX design.
> "It has become a standard in modern operating systems"
>
> Ehem...this is me being stupid, but what is the standard switch in current
> modern operating systems anyway?
>
>
> On 24 May 2013 15:15, Alfredo Hernández  wrote:
>
> > The current one is clear enough and It has become a standard in modern
> > operating systems. I don't see the need to change it.
> >
> > Regards.
> > On 24 May 2013 13:09, "A. "Xylon" V."  wrote:
> >
> >> I have an idea for a new GtkSwitch image in the eGtk theme. See the
> >> attached file.
> >>
> >> This new GtkSwitch is skeuomorphic, and more intuitive from a user's POV
> >> (I think anyway). The user can immediately tell what to do, as they can
> >> relate to a light switch in real life, and therefore know the clicking on
> >> it will turn the option on/off. This is not as obvious in the current
> >> switch.
> >>
> >> However, I am not sure if this is possible to implement in Gtk3 css.
> >>
> >> --
> >> My blog, yeaaah! 
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> >> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>
> >>
>
>
> --
> My blog, yeaaah! 
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] New GtkSwitch image

[Alfredo Hernández]

The one implemented in elementary OS, iOS, GNOME, OS X, Android...  The
on/off switcher is becoming a new standard since touch devices started
becoming a new frontier for UX design.
"It has become a standard in modern operating systems"

Ehem...this is me being stupid, but what is the standard switch in current
modern operating systems anyway?


On 24 May 2013 15:15, Alfredo Hernández  wrote:

> The current one is clear enough and It has become a standard in modern
> operating systems. I don't see the need to change it.
>
> Regards.
> On 24 May 2013 13:09, "A. "Xylon" V."  wrote:
>
>> I have an idea for a new GtkSwitch image in the eGtk theme. See the
>> attached file.
>>
>> This new GtkSwitch is skeuomorphic, and more intuitive from a user's POV
>> (I think anyway). The user can immediately tell what to do, as they can
>> relate to a light switch in real life, and therefore know the clicking on
>> it will turn the option on/off. This is not as obvious in the current
>> switch.
>>
>> However, I am not sure if this is possible to implement in Gtk3 css.
>>
>> --
>> My blog, yeaaah! 
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] New GtkSwitch image

[A. "Xylon" V.]

"It has become a standard in modern operating systems"

Ehem...this is me being stupid, but what is the standard switch in current
modern operating systems anyway?


On 24 May 2013 15:15, Alfredo Hernández  wrote:

> The current one is clear enough and It has become a standard in modern
> operating systems. I don't see the need to change it.
>
> Regards.
> On 24 May 2013 13:09, "A. "Xylon" V."  wrote:
>
>> I have an idea for a new GtkSwitch image in the eGtk theme. See the
>> attached file.
>>
>> This new GtkSwitch is skeuomorphic, and more intuitive from a user's POV
>> (I think anyway). The user can immediately tell what to do, as they can
>> relate to a light switch in real life, and therefore know the clicking on
>> it will turn the option on/off. This is not as obvious in the current
>> switch.
>>
>> However, I am not sure if this is possible to implement in Gtk3 css.
>>
>> --
>> My blog, yeaaah! 
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] New GtkSwitch image

[Alfredo Hernández]

The current one is clear enough and It has become a standard in modern
operating systems. I don't see the need to change it.

Regards.
On 24 May 2013 13:09, "A. "Xylon" V."  wrote:

> I have an idea for a new GtkSwitch image in the eGtk theme. See the
> attached file.
>
> This new GtkSwitch is skeuomorphic, and more intuitive from a user's POV
> (I think anyway). The user can immediately tell what to do, as they can
> relate to a light switch in real life, and therefore know the clicking on
> it will turn the option on/off. This is not as obvious in the current
> switch.
>
> However, I am not sure if this is possible to implement in Gtk3 css.
>
> --
> My blog, yeaaah! 
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
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