Re: [elinks-users] Menu
Richard wrote: Nope not in this version. Rich ## ELinks 0.10.4 configuration file Well, you should probably move up to 0.11.1, which is stable. Hopefully 0.11.x is where it was added. (I'm using a newer cvs.) reid ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] Cache problems?
On Sat, Jul 22, 2006 at 09:30:55AM -0400, cga2000 wrote: .. wasn't making an issue of it .. but I felt that the OP's choice of words did not reflect the attitude of ELinks developers .. and probably not the OP's exact opinion either.. he readily accepted my correcting him .. sounds like he was more venting his frustration - possibly with developers in general rather than ELinks's in particular - rather than anything else anyway.. .. obviously, I didn't agree with the 'we users could say whatever we want.. the developers don't care and in the end they will not take any notice and do whatever they like..' implications... Well, in case there's still any confusion on anyone's part As you say, my original intent in mentioning the whims of the developers was not in any way meant to be negative. I wasn't even particularly venting frustrations (consciously, at least). I just wanted to point out that the developers can focus their development energies where they think it's important, and they may not even agree with the way I think the cache should work. Maybe that's obvious and doesn't need to be said, though Thanks for the hard work on ELinks! reid ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] Cache problems?
On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 05:32:19PM +, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 01:41:38PM -0600, Reid Rivenburgh wrote: On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 06:39:23AM +, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: Go to Setup - Options manager - Document - Cache - Ignore cache-control info from server and set that option to 0. I forgot about that option. That's already set to 0. When you say 'already', do you mean that you have the problem even with the option disabled? Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry about the confusion. Reid ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] Cache problems?
On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 06:05:35PM +, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: Looking at the document, I don't see any headers to indicate that ELinks should reload it: HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:42:19 GMT Server: Apache/1.3.34 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a Vary: Accept-Encoding Last-Modified: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:42:01 GMT ETag: 8d4622-c8b2-44be6ee9 Accept-Ranges: bytes Connection: close Content-Type: text/html Content-Encoding: gzip Content-Length: 18374 Do the browsers with which you are familiar actually check every time when you view a document (presumably using the HTTP If-Modified-Since header) whether there is a newer copy on the server? ELinks could do that, but it would be a little complex, and far too slow. I can't even stand the behaviour with ignore_cache_control disabled, which only affects documents that explicitely signal that they should be reloaded from the server. Such behaviour might be acceptable if done in the background, but then it would be a bit confusing (you load the document, you start to read it, then it suddenly updates while you're in the middling of reading it). My main browser is Firefox; I use ELinks under special circumstances. Unfortunately, I'm really just a user and don't know how exactly Firefox knows to reload a page. It does seem like there's some network activity, so it probably is checking if there's a newer copy on the server. If that's the case, I'm not sure why you think it would be so slow. I find Firefox to be pretty fast, so ELinks should be at least as fast if it was doing the same server query, no? Overall, it seems to me like ELinks is a very fast browser, which should be no surprise since it's just text. When loading a page, I personally would definitely trade a split-second of time for the proper page. (I wouldn't want it to work as you describe, showing the old page and then updating it in the background. I'd prefer to wait.) Maybe this could be a setting for those that prefer speed and don't ever use ELinks to visit frequently-changing pages? (Notice I'm avoiding the whole issue of the complexity of implementing this...!) Reid ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] Cache problems?
On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 06:33:07PM +, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 12:25:16PM -0600, Reid Rivenburgh wrote: My main browser is Firefox; I use ELinks under special circumstances. Unfortunately, I'm really just a user and don't know how exactly Firefox knows to reload a page. It does seem like there's some network activity, so it probably is checking if there's a newer copy on the server. If that's the case, I'm not sure why you think it would be so slow. I find Firefox to be pretty fast, so ELinks should be at least as fast if it was doing the same server query, no? Overall, it seems to me like ELinks is a very fast browser, which should be no surprise since it's just text. When loading a page, I personally would definitely trade a split-second of time for the proper page. (I wouldn't want it to work as you describe, showing the old page and then updating it in the background. I'd prefer to wait.) Maybe this could be a setting for those that prefer speed and don't ever use ELinks to visit frequently-changing pages? (Notice I'm avoiding the whole issue of the complexity of implementing this...!) The split-second delay would be mildly annoying, but that is the best case, when the server is responsive. How is the performance with slow servers? In any case, I do not consider Firefox to be anywere near 'pretty fast'. Well, it's all relative, I suppose. I'd like everything to be instantaneous, but I find the slight delays acceptable. It may be the case that there are times when the network or server are slow, making loading of a cached page slow, and I just accept it as the way it is. That seems rare, though. From my perspective, it's also important to not show old, out-of-date pages. Another example is a site (www.huffingtonpost.com) that links from the main page to a second page with embedded named anchors; if the second page has been cached but I've reloaded the main page, the named anchor won't exist in the cached version of the second page, so I'll get an error dialog and have to reload the second page, go back to the main page, and re-click the link. Ugh. Doing what you describe might be feasible. It would be a little more code for the HTTP part and a little re-engineering of the cache code, but it doesn't sound too difficult. Whether it will actually get done also depends on whether the developers desire such behaviour, however. Sure, I understand that feature requests and fixes get done at the whim of the developers. I was just trying to raise the issue to the forefront. Frankly, for people who use ELinks to browse many web sites, the current state of things seems far from ideal. If ELinks is supposed to be used more to browse static documentation pages and things like that, I can see why it hasn't been noticed or deemed important. Reid ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] Cache problems?
On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 04:36:29PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: OTOH doing the same thing in mozilla is quite slow on my machine.. not because of the time it takes to fetch a new version but appently because of the rendering (PIII 650MHz). This is one of the main reasons I have switched to elinks for pratcticall all web browsing.. couldn't put up with mozilla executing its million lines of code every time I displayed a new page. I understand your grief. The very latest Firefox alpha or beta seems quite a bit better in that regard; you might want to give it a try. Since this mainly poses problem when hitting the back key - 'h' - maybe I should find a way to map this to a short script/macro that just does 'back'+'reload'? As someone mentioned earlier, you can use the keybinding manager to associate back with Follow the current link, forcing reload of the target. I think that's what you want. Unfortunately, I use the mouse to navigate pages, and I don't think there's any way at the moment to configure actions called by mouse clicks. reid ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] Cache problems?
On Sun, Jul 16, 2006 at 02:26:11PM +0200, Jonas Fonseca wrote: Maybe we should make some of this into a FAQ since you are not the first one to point this out. Oops, sorry, I guess I didn't dig deeply enough in the archives Thanks for replying. ELinks' caching behaviour is not very conforming. Historically ELinks has used a very agressive caching policy, once it even cached redirect by default. This doesn't mean that we don't want to fix it at some point but there are several things to be aware of such as usability. Over a year ago, I tried to work on it and it quickly got very annoying for many pages to have it constantly reloading, partly because the incremental rendering often will cause the current link to change if you go back in history etc. I guess I don't quite understand the issue. It seems like the graphical browsers pretty much handle this properly these days. (Maybe there's an argument about going back to a cached copy of the page vs. a reload.) Would you say that mimicing firefox's behavior would be a good goal? I can tell you that the scenario I initially described, where a loaded page via a clicked link is out of date and I'm not even aware of it, seems to me like a bad thing. In any case, I can appreciate the possible difficulty of implementing this correctly, so I'm not complaining much! I didn't know before asking whether it was just me, a bug, a design decision, or what. So that was my take on the status of ELinks' caching behaviour, it doesn't help you very much and I am sorry about that. There is always the link-follow-reload action which might help you to some degree. Oh, I wasn't aware of that. That sounds useful as a workaround, thanks. Reid ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
[elinks-users] Cache problems?
Hi. I've been using elinks for awhile now; it seems like the best of the text browsers. But I've noticed one problem, and I haven't seen any bug reports or emails relating to it. I seem to be having cache problems. When I visit www.dailykos.com (for example) and click to view an article, if I then click on www.dailykos.com on the article page to go to the home page again (i.e. NOT going back in the history), the page I get seems to be the cached version from before. It's very fast and doesn't seem to access the network. The content on the home page changes frequently, so it's often out of date, requiring me to reload manually. I've set the formatted documents number and memory cache size to zero to try to fix this, but it still happens. Is it possible that this only happens to me for some reason? I'm currently using the latest 0.12 from 20060712, but it happened with 0.11 and 0.10. Thanks, Reid ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
