Re: Timestamps

[Jude DaShiell]

I think the new standard is better since it allows for work or an agenda
item to cross one or more Midnights.


On Sat, 27 Nov 2021, David Masterson wrote:

> Has the format for timestamps covering (say) a few hours changed?  The
> following is still possible with "C-c .", but (I think) it is not
> documented in the Org-Mode manual:
>
>   <2021-11-27 Sat 10:30-12:30>
>
> This seems to be the new standard:
>   <2021-11-27 Sat 10:30>--<2021-11-27 Sat 12:30>
>
>

Re: A mobile clocking solution?

[Samuel Banya]

Ah, fair enough.

Funnily enough, I kind of am in the same boat, since I have a free iPad laying 
around which I tried to use forever for various tasks but have wanted to beat 
it against a wall in terms of how locked down the stupid device is.

A bit off topic, I know.

But yeah, tried to access a samba share the other day and didn't even realize 
iPad doesn't support all video types unless its a some specific resolution or 
specific formats. Super annoying to me since I have a ton of cool art books and 
course videos on a drive, and maybe 30 to 40% of it, I just can't access 
because of this stupid fact alone.

Stuff like that irks me so much since the same task left up to a capable tablet 
laptop like a Thinkpad X230 Tablet running something like Manjaro with XFCE 
would do wonders in the same scenario. Then again, the end consumer they market 
these locked down devices don't care, but I personally do.

Same things goes for emulators for retro games, or just installing homebrew 
programs in general, it just isn't easy at all on an Apple iPad unless you 
jailbreak the device, which is already a kind of not-easy process to begin 
with. 

Its just better to start out with something that is made to tinker on instead 
--> Raspberry Pi with tablet screen, Android tablet flashed with custom rom, 
Thinkpad X220 Tablet or Thinkpad X230 tablet, etc.

Anyway, hopefully you didn't take my comment the wrong way, its just that I've 
been frustrated recently and have been actively looking for an alternative 
tablet myself :) 

Org Mode rules though, so I'm sure there's a way to solve your clocking issue 
for sure.

I would definitely go the capture template route though, but steal someone 
else's template as the syntax is a little weird if you're new to it.

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, at 12:33 AM, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> 
> On 2021-11-27, at 22:42, Samuel Banya  wrote:
> 
> > Lol, okay. Well then, I tried to offer some advice. Good luck with MacOS.
> 
> Well, thanks - it was actually valuable.  Also - out of curiosity - what
> gave you the impression I'm using MacOS???  Fun fact: I did once use an
> iPad (a borrowed one) for half a day, and I found the experience
> terrible enough to not come near anything Apple-related;-).
> 
> Best,
> mbork
> 
> 
> >
> > Its better to keep Emacs uncaged :)
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 27, 2021, at 7:25 AM, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> >> 
> >> On 2021-11-26, at 22:16, Samuel Banya  wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Hey Marcin,
> >> >
> >> > There are a few options that exist, so I'm going to drop a few ideas in 
> >> > this email.
> >> >
> >> > *"Buy A Rooted Phone" Option:*
> >> > Why not just get a rooted Android phone with Replicant on it from eBay 
> >> > in the first place?
> >> >
> >> > Then, you can use Termux to ssh into a local or cloud VPS file server 
> >> > where you're hosting your .org files. Most people even use Dropbox (or 
> >> > SyncThing, whatever floats your boat).
> >> >
> >> > Worst case scenario, you can maybe just run a terminal version of Emacs 
> >> > on the rooted Android phone (or even your current non-rooted phone), and 
> >> > clock in like that.
> >> 
> >> Well, doesn't that have the same security issue I mentioned?
> >> 
> >> > If you're on iOS though... well... maybe its time to get out of the 
> >> > walled garden?
> >> 
> >> Of course not.
> >> 
> >> > *"Just Use A Laptop" Option:*
> >> > I'd say maybe just get a laptop, put some decent Linux distro on it, and 
> >> > use Emacs on that instead.
> >> 
> >> Out of question.  I need this exactly for the times when I cannot use my 
> >> laptop.
> >> 
> >> > Worst case scenario, you can maybe just run a terminal version of Emacs 
> >> > on the rooted Android phone, and clock in like that.
> >> >
> >> > *Bash Script Approach:*
> >> > The only other thing I could think of is to do this via an easy Bash 
> >> > prompt to find the same files on the ssh machine. This might be 
> >> > preposterous to those on the list that might want to use Elisp for 
> >> > everything, but maybe its on a device where a Linux Bash terminal just 
> >> > is present by default.
> >> 
> >> That /could/ be a solution.
> >> 
> >> > *"Just Log The Time Later" Approach:*
> >> > You could always even just make org capture templates to estimate time 
> >> > later too.
> >> 
> >> And I think this is the way to go.  Probably also use/write some very
> >> simple time tracking app on the phone.
> >> 
> >> > *Summed Up:*
> >> > The most sane approach in my opinion, is just use a computer that can 
> >> > normally just use Emacs as-is. 
> >> >
> >> > Then again, this is coming from someone who respects the "Getting Things 
> >> > Done" method a ton, but doesn't clock in every single personal task, 
> >> > because I think its really unnecessary and tedious. I think this kind of 
> >> > clocking ideas are better suited for work based todo lists if you're 
> >> > trying to get things done for work or something.
> >> 
> >> I don't clock everything either, but there are some

Re: A mobile clocking solution?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2021-11-27, at 22:42, Samuel Banya  wrote:

> Lol, okay. Well then, I tried to offer some advice. Good luck with MacOS.

Well, thanks - it was actually valuable.  Also - out of curiosity - what
gave you the impression I'm using MacOS???  Fun fact: I did once use an
iPad (a borrowed one) for half a day, and I found the experience
terrible enough to not come near anything Apple-related;-).

Best,
mbork


>
> Its better to keep Emacs uncaged :)
>
> On Sat, Nov 27, 2021, at 7:25 AM, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>> 
>> On 2021-11-26, at 22:16, Samuel Banya  wrote:
>> 
>> > Hey Marcin,
>> >
>> > There are a few options that exist, so I'm going to drop a few ideas in 
>> > this email.
>> >
>> > *"Buy A Rooted Phone" Option:*
>> > Why not just get a rooted Android phone with Replicant on it from eBay in 
>> > the first place?
>> >
>> > Then, you can use Termux to ssh into a local or cloud VPS file server 
>> > where you're hosting your .org files. Most people even use Dropbox (or 
>> > SyncThing, whatever floats your boat).
>> >
>> > Worst case scenario, you can maybe just run a terminal version of Emacs on 
>> > the rooted Android phone (or even your current non-rooted phone), and 
>> > clock in like that.
>> 
>> Well, doesn't that have the same security issue I mentioned?
>> 
>> > If you're on iOS though... well... maybe its time to get out of the walled 
>> > garden?
>> 
>> Of course not.
>> 
>> > *"Just Use A Laptop" Option:*
>> > I'd say maybe just get a laptop, put some decent Linux distro on it, and 
>> > use Emacs on that instead.
>> 
>> Out of question.  I need this exactly for the times when I cannot use my 
>> laptop.
>> 
>> > Worst case scenario, you can maybe just run a terminal version of Emacs on 
>> > the rooted Android phone, and clock in like that.
>> >
>> > *Bash Script Approach:*
>> > The only other thing I could think of is to do this via an easy Bash 
>> > prompt to find the same files on the ssh machine. This might be 
>> > preposterous to those on the list that might want to use Elisp for 
>> > everything, but maybe its on a device where a Linux Bash terminal just is 
>> > present by default.
>> 
>> That /could/ be a solution.
>> 
>> > *"Just Log The Time Later" Approach:*
>> > You could always even just make org capture templates to estimate time 
>> > later too.
>> 
>> And I think this is the way to go.  Probably also use/write some very
>> simple time tracking app on the phone.
>> 
>> > *Summed Up:*
>> > The most sane approach in my opinion, is just use a computer that can 
>> > normally just use Emacs as-is. 
>> >
>> > Then again, this is coming from someone who respects the "Getting Things 
>> > Done" method a ton, but doesn't clock in every single personal task, 
>> > because I think its really unnecessary and tedious. I think this kind of 
>> > clocking ideas are better suited for work based todo lists if you're 
>> > trying to get things done for work or something.
>> 
>> I don't clock everything either, but there are some things that I do,
>> and that's why I want a reasonable mobile solution.
>> 
>> > I've seen the Android apps for Emacs Org Mode demo'd on YouTube, and it 
>> > looks clunky. Its nice for what it is, but yeah, I think Emacs overall is 
>> > just better suited for a laptop or desktop computer since you really need 
>> > to just use a keyboard to pull off most of the magic.
>> 
>> Of course.  I don't need Org editing etc. (well, maybe capture), just
>> the clocking.  That seems easy enough on mobile (UI-wise)..
>> 
>> > Good luck with this though,
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> -- 
>> Marcin Borkowski
>> http://mbork.pl
>> 


-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Timestamps

[David Masterson]

Has the format for timestamps covering (say) a few hours changed?  The
following is still possible with "C-c .", but (I think) it is not
documented in the Org-Mode manual:

  <2021-11-27 Sat 10:30-12:30>

This seems to be the new standard:
  <2021-11-27 Sat 10:30>--<2021-11-27 Sat 12:30>
  
-- 
David Masterson

Re: A mobile clocking solution?

[Samuel Banya]

Lol, okay. Well then, I tried to offer some advice. Good luck with MacOS.

Its better to keep Emacs uncaged :)

On Sat, Nov 27, 2021, at 7:25 AM, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> 
> On 2021-11-26, at 22:16, Samuel Banya  wrote:
> 
> > Hey Marcin,
> >
> > There are a few options that exist, so I'm going to drop a few ideas in 
> > this email.
> >
> > *"Buy A Rooted Phone" Option:*
> > Why not just get a rooted Android phone with Replicant on it from eBay in 
> > the first place?
> >
> > Then, you can use Termux to ssh into a local or cloud VPS file server where 
> > you're hosting your .org files. Most people even use Dropbox (or SyncThing, 
> > whatever floats your boat).
> >
> > Worst case scenario, you can maybe just run a terminal version of Emacs on 
> > the rooted Android phone (or even your current non-rooted phone), and clock 
> > in like that.
> 
> Well, doesn't that have the same security issue I mentioned?
> 
> > If you're on iOS though... well... maybe its time to get out of the walled 
> > garden?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> > *"Just Use A Laptop" Option:*
> > I'd say maybe just get a laptop, put some decent Linux distro on it, and 
> > use Emacs on that instead.
> 
> Out of question.  I need this exactly for the times when I cannot use my 
> laptop.
> 
> > Worst case scenario, you can maybe just run a terminal version of Emacs on 
> > the rooted Android phone, and clock in like that.
> >
> > *Bash Script Approach:*
> > The only other thing I could think of is to do this via an easy Bash prompt 
> > to find the same files on the ssh machine. This might be preposterous to 
> > those on the list that might want to use Elisp for everything, but maybe 
> > its on a device where a Linux Bash terminal just is present by default.
> 
> That /could/ be a solution.
> 
> > *"Just Log The Time Later" Approach:*
> > You could always even just make org capture templates to estimate time 
> > later too.
> 
> And I think this is the way to go.  Probably also use/write some very
> simple time tracking app on the phone.
> 
> > *Summed Up:*
> > The most sane approach in my opinion, is just use a computer that can 
> > normally just use Emacs as-is. 
> >
> > Then again, this is coming from someone who respects the "Getting Things 
> > Done" method a ton, but doesn't clock in every single personal task, 
> > because I think its really unnecessary and tedious. I think this kind of 
> > clocking ideas are better suited for work based todo lists if you're trying 
> > to get things done for work or something.
> 
> I don't clock everything either, but there are some things that I do,
> and that's why I want a reasonable mobile solution.
> 
> > I've seen the Android apps for Emacs Org Mode demo'd on YouTube, and it 
> > looks clunky. Its nice for what it is, but yeah, I think Emacs overall is 
> > just better suited for a laptop or desktop computer since you really need 
> > to just use a keyboard to pull off most of the magic.
> 
> Of course.  I don't need Org editing etc. (well, maybe capture), just
> the clocking.  That seems easy enough on mobile (UI-wise)..
> 
> > Good luck with this though,
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -- 
> Marcin Borkowski
> http://mbork.pl
> 

Re: org parser and priorities of inline elements

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Max Nikulin  writes:

> I can not estimate efforts necessary to implement priorities of
> objects (verbatim - link - emphasis) in org-elements parser since
> I have not looked into its code. Comparing the following snippets,
> I might naively expect some kind of backtracking:
>
> - A /b *c +d e+ f*g/ h
> - A /b *c +df* e+h
>
> I admit that I can be wrong and "first wins" approach handles buffer
> of incomplete parsed entities in a different way.

I don't see any incentive to change the order objects are parsed, once
you know how Org does it. This is just a red herring. What is useful,
however, is to fontify them the way Org sees them.

Regards,
-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Org ELPA: does not include 9.5 as expected, archives appear largely identical?

[William McCoy]

I still don't see Org 9.5.1 on GNU ELPA, just 9.5.  Does it usually take 
so long to appear?


Thanks, Bill


On 11/22/21 12:05 AM, Bastien wrote:

Hi Nicolas,

Nicolas Goaziou  writes:


Org 9.5.1 is planned to be the last stable version before the final
merge into the Emacs 28 branch, so I will ping the Emacs maintainers
first -- thanks for the reminder!

Another possibility is to release Org 9.5.1 and make Org 9.5.2 (or
9.5.3, or...) the last stable version. I.e., we don't need to delay
artificially the release (but we may delay this one for other reasons,
obviously).

I first wanted to check that it's okay with the Emacs maintainers if
we release new bugfix releases that we don't merge yet into the Emacs
28 branch, so that we can only merge the latest one.  They agreed to
that, so I've now released Org 9.5.1, it should appear in GNU ELPA
in the next hours.

Thanks!

Re: A mobile clocking solution?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2021-11-26, at 22:16, Samuel Banya  wrote:

> Hey Marcin,
>
> There are a few options that exist, so I'm going to drop a few ideas in this 
> email.
>
> *"Buy A Rooted Phone" Option:*
> Why not just get a rooted Android phone with Replicant on it from eBay in the 
> first place?
>
> Then, you can use Termux to ssh into a local or cloud VPS file server where 
> you're hosting your .org files. Most people even use Dropbox (or SyncThing, 
> whatever floats your boat).
>
> Worst case scenario, you can maybe just run a terminal version of Emacs on 
> the rooted Android phone (or even your current non-rooted phone), and clock 
> in like that.

Well, doesn't that have the same security issue I mentioned?

> If you're on iOS though... well... maybe its time to get out of the walled 
> garden?

Of course not.

> *"Just Use A Laptop" Option:*
> I'd say maybe just get a laptop, put some decent Linux distro on it, and use 
> Emacs on that instead.

Out of question.  I need this exactly for the times when I cannot use my laptop.

> Worst case scenario, you can maybe just run a terminal version of Emacs on 
> the rooted Android phone, and clock in like that.
>
> *Bash Script Approach:*
> The only other thing I could think of is to do this via an easy Bash prompt 
> to find the same files on the ssh machine. This might be preposterous to 
> those on the list that might want to use Elisp for everything, but maybe its 
> on a device where a Linux Bash terminal just is present by default.

That /could/ be a solution.

> *"Just Log The Time Later" Approach:*
> You could always even just make org capture templates to estimate time later 
> too.

And I think this is the way to go.  Probably also use/write some very
simple time tracking app on the phone.

> *Summed Up:*
> The most sane approach in my opinion, is just use a computer that can 
> normally just use Emacs as-is. 
>
> Then again, this is coming from someone who respects the "Getting Things 
> Done" method a ton, but doesn't clock in every single personal task, because 
> I think its really unnecessary and tedious. I think this kind of clocking 
> ideas are better suited for work based todo lists if you're trying to get 
> things done for work or something.

I don't clock everything either, but there are some things that I do,
and that's why I want a reasonable mobile solution.

> I've seen the Android apps for Emacs Org Mode demo'd on YouTube, and it looks 
> clunky. Its nice for what it is, but yeah, I think Emacs overall is just 
> better suited for a laptop or desktop computer since you really need to just 
> use a keyboard to pull off most of the magic.

Of course.  I don't need Org editing etc. (well, maybe capture), just
the clocking.  That seems easy enough on mobile (UI-wise)..

> Good luck with this though,

Thanks!

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

org parser and priorities of inline elements

[Max Nikulin]

On 21/11/2021 16:28, Ihor Radchenko wrote:


Also, is there any reason why we are not simply using punctuation
character class instead of listing punctuation chars explicitly (and
only for English)? What about "_你叫什么名字_？"


It seems punctuation character class is too broad. E.g.
¿ INVERTED QUESTION MARK
normally appears before words, while "?" is usually after them. I do not 
see anything special in

(category-set-mnemonics (char-category-set ?¿))
that may help to discriminate such cases.

An example that confuses fontification but not parser:
: false [[http://te.st/dir?b-=&a=-][verbatim]] fontification
It is a simplified example, original one:
Chris Hunt. Bug: Tildes in URL impact visible link text
Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:44:07 -0500.
https://list.orgmode.org/CAH+Wm4-_XHUZKFTf=ztbfncpvqwkbeoegs8epym+8spmu8l...@mail.gmail.com/

Nicolas Goaziou. Thu, 18 Nov 2021 13:35:19 +0100.
https://list.orgmode.org/87y25l8wvs@nicolasgoaziou.fr

Ihor Radchenko writes:


My intuition says that the current parser behaviour is not correct. It
would make more sense to prioritise link over italics. However, it would
require a major change in the parser - instead of a single pass, the
parser may parse different types of objects sequentially. The emphasis
objects should come last avoiding the markers to have different parents.


I disagree. Priority should be given to the first object being started.
This is, IMO, the only sane way to handle syntax.


Origin of such expectation is not only TeX that changes category of 
characters for argument of verbatim commands. In markdown links and code 
have higher priorities than emphasis as well:


echo 'A _b `c_ d` e_ f' | pandoc -f markdown -t html -
A b c_ d e f

Org:
A _b =c_ d= e_ f
export result (it is more concise and easier to read than output of 
`org-element-parse-secondary-string'):


A b =c d= e_ f


Link in markdown:

echo 'A _b c  d e_ f' \
 | pandoc -f markdown -t html -
A b c https://orgmode.org/index.htm_?k=v"; 
class="uri">https://orgmode.org/index.htm_?k=v d e f


Org:

A b /c https://orgmode.org/index.htm?k=v> 
d/ e_ f



I can not estimate efforts necessary to implement priorities of objects 
(verbatim - link - emphasis) in org-elements parser since I have not 
looked into its code. Comparing the following snippets, I might naively 
expect some kind of backtracking:


- A /b *c +d e+ f*g/ h
- A /b *c +df* e+h

I admit that I can be wrong and "first wins" approach handles buffer of 
incomplete parsed entities in a different way.


P.S. In reStructured text simple nesting is not allowed, maybe it is 
possible to use replacements.