Re: Presenting Hyperorg version 0.1.0: The Org to HTML Converter

[c . buhtz]

Dear Ihor,

thanks for your reply.

Am 24.03.2024 14:31 schrieb Ihor Radchenko:

Hmm. I thought that you implemented Org parser in python from scratch.
Now, I see that you are using orgparse.


The orgparse package do not parse much of on org file. IT does parse the 
meta infos (property drawers, etc) but not the content of an orgfile. In 
the long run I might replay orgparse to reduce dependencies.


Beside orgparse yes I implement an org parser.


Wondering what you are referring to when mentioning "resilient when
dealing with parser issues".


Orgparse do throw exceptions e.g. UnicodeDecodeError or when timestamps 
are invalid. Hyperorg catch that exceptions and go on with the next node 
without interrupting the whole process.
Other things are "invalid" links, e.g. unknown orgids, unknown roam 
links, unsupported "link kinds" ("protocols" in org syntax?; e.g. 
"inkscape:").
Additionally there are multiple fancy but not supported org features 
(e.g. tables) currently not supported. Hyperorg shouldn't stop or crash 
at this point.



index can be produced with minimal configuration via ox-publish.


"minimal" is a subjective term here. Again I don't blame the tools or 
the Emacs universe.
But for me it is not even minimal to get ox-publish run in the first 
place. Not speaking about further modifications, e.g. an index.


Emacs, Lisp and its "documentation" is a special thing not everybody can 
or want to handle. I would have to invest so much resources into basics 
like Lisp just to understand the documentation in a way that I would be 
able to modify the publishing feature in a (for me) satisfying way. I am 
the problem not Emacs and Co. ;)


Kind
Christian Buhtz

Re: [BUG] Improve error message "org-back-to-heading: Before first headline at position 1" [9.6.8 (release_9.6.8-3-g21171d @/usr/local/share/emacs/29.1.50/lisp/org/)]

[c . buhtz]

Dear Ihor,
thanks for reply.

Am 21.03.2024 11:02 schrieb Ihor Radchenko:

 "org-back-to-heading: Before first headline at position 1 in
buffer..."


I believe that this problem have been fixed on main.


Do you mean the message was improved or the message do not appear 
anymore? Can you link please to the sources file where I can see the 
message. Let's see if I understand it. :D



If not, please provide more details on how to trigger the error.


That is the simple example:

:PROPERTIES:
:ID:   a7f2b708-d2f9-41d5-a263-d82540b10b23
:END:
#+title: test2
#+date: [2024-03-10 16:42]
Paragraph

After writing my first message I learned that there need to be a heading 
that files are attached, too. I don't understand why. So I assume the 
reason for the error message was that there is no heading in that org 
file?
But I would strongly disagree. An org file has a heading by definition 
even if it is empty. The heading string (#+title) might not exist and is 
empty but there is always an ":ID:". To my very(!) limited knowledge I 
would treat this behavior also as a bug. But there might be a good 
reason for this behavior.



Something is off in your email settings (in emacs or in system mailer).


I use Thunderbird. There are no other email settings. Never used Emacs 
with mails. I always wonder why debian-bugreport is able to send mails. 
:D

But copy & paste is good workaround in the first please.

Kind
Christian

[BUG] Improve error message "org-back-to-heading: Before first headline at position 1" [9.6.8 (release_9.6.8-3-g21171d @/usr/local/share/emacs/29.1.50/lisp/org/)]

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

using the first time this Emacs in build bug report thing. But have to 
send the mail via copy & paste because the bug reporter didn't work out 
of the box.
The "From" field is not valid. Modified it manually in the buffer. But 
didn't work.
Emacs tried to use STARTTLS with posteo.de:25 which is wrong I think. 
Should be port 587 but don't know how to set this.


OK, now the real problem:

This is not a support question about how to solve a problem or the error
message I do report here. It is a request to improve that error message
to help users understand the real problem and find a solution by their
own.

I get the this error message in context when using the Org attachments
feature (C-c C-a plus c).

"org-back-to-heading: Before first headline at position 1 in 
buffer..."


I have no idea about the brackground here. And I also not a regular user
of orgs attachment feature. So I can not provide a better error
message. This will be up to you. Thank you.

Kind
Christian Buhtz

Your bug report will be posted to the Org mailing list.




Emacs  : GNU Emacs 29.1.50 (build 1, aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu)
 of 2023-09-14
Package: Org mode version 9.6.8 (release_9.6.8-3-g21171d @ 
/usr/local/share/emacs/29.1.50/lisp/org/)


current state:
==
(setq
 org-link-elisp-confirm-function 'yes-or-no-p
 org-roam-db-gc-threshold 314572800
 org-hide-emphasis-markers t
 org-bibtex-headline-format-function #[257 "\300\236A\207" [:title] 3 
"\n\n(fn ENTRY)"]

 org-download-file-format-function 'org-download-file-format-default
 org-roam-node-display-template #("${title:*} ${tags:20}" 11 21 (face 
org-tag))

 org-persist-after-read-hook '(org-element--cache-persist-after-read)
 org-export-before-parsing-hook '(org-attach-expand-links)
 org-cycle-tab-first-hook '(org-babel-hide-result-toggle-maybe 
org-babel-header-arg-expand)

 org-roam-find-file-hook '(org-roam-buffer--setup-redisplay-h
   org-roam--register-completion-functions-h
   org-roam--replace-roam-links-on-save-h
   org-roam-db-autosync--setup-update-on-save-h)
 org-archive-hook '(org-attach-archive-delete-maybe)
 org-edit-src-content-indentation 0
 org-cycle-hook '(org-cycle-hide-archived-subtrees 
org-cycle-show-empty-lines

  org-cycle-optimize-window-after-visibility-change
  org-cycle-display-inline-images)
 org-persist-before-read-hook '(org-element--cache-persist-before-read)
 org-mode-hook '(#[0 "\301\211\207" [imenu-create-index-function
 org-imenu-get-tree] 2]
 buhtzology/org-mode-visual-fill org-bullets-mode
 #[0 "\300\301\302\303\304$\207"
   [add-hook change-major-mode-hook org-fold-show-all 
append

 local] 5]
 #[0 "\300\301\302\303\304$\207"
   [add-hook change-major-mode-hook 
org-babel-show-result-all

 append local] 5]
 org-babel-result-hide-spec org-babel-hide-all-hashes
 buhtzology/org-mode-setup
 (closure (t) nil (display-line-numbers-mode 0)))
 org-roam-ref-annotation-function 'org-roam-ref-read--annotation
 org-roam-directory "~/.my.org-roam"
 org-ellipsis "↓"
 org-roam-db-node-include-function #[0 "\300\207" [t] 1]
 org-download-abbreviate-filename-function 'file-relative-name
 org-confirm-shell-link-function 'yes-or-no-p
 org-download-annotate-function 'org-download-annotate-default
 outline-isearch-open-invisible-function 'outline-isearch-open-invisible
 org-roam-capture-preface-hook '(org-roam-capture--try-capture-to-ref-h)
 org-agenda-before-write-hook '(org-agenda-add-entry-text)
 org-capture-prepare-finalize-hook 
'(org-roam-capture--install-finalize-h)

 org-roam-preview-function 'org-roam-preview-default-function
 org-src-mode-hook '(org-src-babel-configure-edit-buffer 
org-src-mode-configure-edit-buffer)

 org-roam-db-autosync-mode t
 org-confirm-elisp-link-function 'yes-or-no-p
 org-log-buffer-setup-hook '(org-roam-log--setup)
 org-roam-capture-new-node-hook 
'(org-roam-capture--insert-captured-ref-h)
 org-structure-template-alist '(("rc" . "src rconsole") ("r" . "src R") 
("pc"

 . "src PyCon")
("p" . "src Python") ("a" . "export 
ascii")

 ("c" . "center")
("C" . "comment") ("e" . "example") ("E"
 . "export")
("h" . "export html") ("l" . "export 
latex")

 ("q" . "quote")
("s" . "src") ("v" . "verse"))
 org-speed-command-hook '(org-speed-command-activate 
org-babel-speed-command-activate)

 org-bullets-bullet-list '("■" "○" "●" "○" "●" "○" "●")
 org-fold-core-isearch-open-function 'org-fold--isearch-reveal
 org-persist-before-write-hook 
'(org-element--cache-persist-before-write)
 org-tab-first-hook '(org-babel-hide-result-toggle-maybe 
org-babel-header-arg-expand)

 org-link-shell-confirm-function 

Presenting Hyperorg version 0.1.0: The Org to HTML Converter

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

I am excited to introduce Hyperorg 0.1.0 [1], designed to efficiently 
convert files
from Emacs Org-mode and Org-roam into clean HTML files. Ideal for 
Zettelkasten
enthusiasts and personal wiki creators, Hyperorg simplifies the 
conversion process,
ensuring your nodes correctly interlinked and accurately transformed 
into HTML format.


Key Features:
- Converts Emacs Org-mode and Org-roam files to pure HTML5 and CSS.
- Tailored for Zettelkasten and personal wiki use cases.
- Written in Python3.

Visit the project website for clear installation instructions [2].

Have questions, feature ideas, or encountered any bugs?
I appreciate your feed back and do work now on the issues for the next 
release.


I am also very thankful the support of this community who helped and 
inspired me with some parsing details.


Best regards
Christian Buhtz

[1] -- 
[2] -- 

Worg: Possible bug about inline-image example using four brackets

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

it seems there is no bug-tracker for "worg" at 
"https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg;.


Please see the line behind this link
https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg/tree/master/item/org-tutorials/images-and-xhtml-export.org#L61

There you find an example of in inline-image in org-mode uing 4 brackets 
on each side.


lore /img/org-mode-unicorn.png ipsum

My org (Emacs 29) does ignore two of the brackets when exporting to HTL. 
When using two brackets only, inline images also rendered as 
inline-images without problems.


So do I assume correct that the document is wrong and there should be 
two instead of four brackets?


Kind
Christian

Re: [BUG] I was asked to report this [9.6.2 ( @ /home/user/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6.2/)]

[c . buhtz]

Dear Ihor,

thanks for reply.

Am 29.03.2023 11:31 schrieb Ihor Radchenko:
May you also provide the full text of the warning that asked you to 
send

this bug report?


Sorry, I'm not able to do that. I just send what was auto-generated for 
that email.

I'm also not able to reproduce.

It is not in the message buffer.

Kind
Christian

[BUG] I was asked to report this [9.6.2 ( @ /home/user/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6.2/)]

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

my Emacs 29 asked me to report this. I don't know why it happend. Not 
sure how I can help you here.
It is Debian 11 on a Raspberry Pi 4. Emacs 29 selfbuild ("GMP GNUTLS 
JSON LIBSELINUX LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INOTIFY 
PDUMPER SECCOMP SQLITE3 THREADS XIM ZLIB") running in "tmux" over "ssh".


Emacs  : GNU Emacs 29.0.60 (build 1, aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu)
 of 2023-03-28
Package: Org mode version 9.6.2 ( @ /home/user/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6.2/)

current state:
==
(setq
 org-link-elisp-confirm-function 'yes-or-no-p
 org-hide-emphasis-markers t
 org-bibtex-headline-format-function #[257 "\300
\236A\207" [:title] 3 
"\n\n(fn ENTRY)"]

 org-download-file-format-function 'org-download-file-format-default
 org-roam-node-display-template #("${title:*} ${tags:20}" 11 21 (face 
org-tag))

 org-persist-after-read-hook '(org-element--cache-persist-after-read)
 org-export-before-parsing-hook '(org-attach-expand-links)
 org-cycle-tab-first-hook '(org-babel-hide-result-toggle-maybe 
org-babel-header-arg-expand)

 org-roam-find-file-hook '(org-roam-buffer--setup-redisplay-h
 org-roam--register-completion-functions-h
			   org-roam--replace-roam-links-on-save-h 
org-roam-db-autosync--setup-update-on-save-h)

 org-archive-hook '(org-attach-archive-delete-maybe)
 org-edit-src-content-indentation 0
 org-cycle-hook '(org-cycle-hide-archived-subtrees 
org-cycle-show-empty-lines
		  org-cycle-optimize-window-after-visibility-change 
org-cycle-display-inline-images)

 org-persist-before-read-hook '(org-element--cache-persist-before-read)
 org-mode-hook '(org-bullets-mode
 #[0 "\300\301\302\303\304$\207" [add-hook
 change-major-mode-hook org-fold-show-all append local]
   5]
 #[0 "\300\301\302\303\304$\207"
   [add-hook change-major-mode-hook org-babel-show-result-all
 append local] 5]
 org-babel-result-hide-spec org-babel-hide-all-hashes
 #[0 "\301\211\207" [imenu-create-index-function
 org-imenu-get-tree] 2]
 buhtzology/org-mode-visual-fill buhtzology/org-mode-setup
 (closure (t) nil (display-line-numbers-mode 0)))
 org-roam-ref-annotation-function 'org-roam-ref-read--annotation
 org-roam-directory "~/ownCloud/my.org-roam"
 org-ellipsis " ▽"
 org-roam-db-node-include-function #[0 "\300\207" [t] 1]
 org-download-abbreviate-filename-function 'file-relative-name
 org-confirm-shell-link-function 'yes-or-no-p
 org-download-annotate-function 'org-download-annotate-default
 outline-isearch-open-invisible-function 'outline-isearch-open-invisible
 org-roam-capture-preface-hook '(org-roam-capture--try-capture-to-ref-h)
 org-agenda-before-write-hook '(org-agenda-add-entry-text)
 org-capture-prepare-finalize-hook 
'(org-roam-capture--install-finalize-h)

 org-roam-preview-function 'org-roam-preview-default-function
 org-src-mode-hook '(org-src-babel-configure-edit-buffer 
org-src-mode-configure-edit-buffer)

 org-roam-db-autosync-mode t
 org-confirm-elisp-link-function 'yes-or-no-p
 org-log-buffer-setup-hook '(org-roam-log--setup)
 org-roam-capture-new-node-hook 
'(org-roam-capture--insert-captured-ref-h)
 org-speed-command-hook '(org-speed-command-activate 
org-babel-speed-command-activate)

 org-bullets-bullet-list '("◉" "○" "●" "○" "●" "○" "●")
 org-fold-core-isearch-open-function 'org-fold--isearch-reveal
 org-persist-before-write-hook 
'(org-element--cache-persist-before-write)
 org-tab-first-hook '(org-babel-hide-result-toggle-maybe 
org-babel-header-arg-expand)

 org-link-shell-confirm-function 'yes-or-no-p
 org-babel-pre-tangle-hook '(save-buffer)
 org-roam-completion-everywhere t
 org-agenda-loop-over-headlines-in-active-region nil
 org-occur-hook '(org-first-headline-recenter)
 org-roam-log-setup-hook '(org-roam--register-completion-functions-h)
 org-metadown-hook '(org-babel-pop-to-session-maybe)
 org-roam-node-annotation-function 'org-roam-node-read--annotation
 org-link-parameters '(("eww" :follow org-eww-open :store 
org-eww-store-link)

   ("rmail" :follow org-rmail-open :store
 org-rmail-store-link)
   ("mhe" :follow org-mhe-open :store org-mhe-store-link)
   ("irc" :follow org-irc-visit :store org-irc-store-link
 :export org-irc-export)
   ("info" :follow org-info-open :export org-info-export
 :store org-info-store-link
:insert-description org-info-description-as-command)
   ("gnus" :follow org-gnus-open :store
 org-gnus-store-link)
   ("docview" :follow org-docview-open :export
 org-docview-export :store
org-docview-store-link)
   ("bibtex" :follow org-bibtex-open :store
 org-bibtex-store-link)
   ("bbdb" :follow org-bbdb-open :export org-bbdb-export
 :complete org-bbdb-complete-link
:store org-bbdb-store-link)

Re: Emacs29: sqllite support for orgroam on Windows?

[c . buhtz]

Dear Ihor,

thanks for reply.

Am 01.02.2023 14:43 schrieb Ihor Radchenko:

See `org-roam-database-connector'


Is this a (maybe) yes or (maybe) no?

Can you please translate that answer to someone who doesn't know the 
internals of Emacs and Lisp; a normal user?


Asking an internet search engine it seems this is a variable or how you 
call it in Lisp?


But there is no public available (C-h and Lisp-code doesn't count) 
documentation about it.

I only can find it mentioned in org roam manual
https://www.orgroam.com/manual.html#Customizing-Node-Caching
But it is not described there just mentioned.

C-h o doesn't help because I only have Emacs 27 alive here and the text 
behind it is outdated because of that. And the text behind it is not on 
a user level but only on a Emacs-Lisp-programmer-level to understand.

Emacs29: sqllite support for orgroam on Windows?

[c . buhtz]

Making OrgRoam usable on Windows is quit hard because of the SQLlite 
component.

I don't want to go into details. It is possible but not easy.

I read about Emacs 29 and its in build sqlite support.
https://blog.phundrak.com/emacs-29-what-can-we-expect/#native-access-to-sqlite-databases

In that case might it be easier with Emacs 29 to setup OrgRoam on 
Windows because there is no need anymore to install an extra sqlite?


Kind
Christian

Bug: Inconsistent behaviour about inline markup

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

I'm not sure if this is a bug or intended by design. Please point to the 
correct documentation if there is one.
I'm also not sure if Orgmode is the related component here or if there 
is any other?


What I describe is in the context of auto-formating markup in orgmode. 
When you type "=verb=" or "~code~" the first and last character 
disappears but the text gets another color. In GUI mode also "/" and "*" 
will disapear and make the word italic or bold.


What characters are allowed in front of the beginning inline marker 
("=", "~", "/", "*", etc) and after the ending marker.
Allowed may not be the correct word. With which characters is Orgmode 
still able to recognize the markup right.


Examples (the " are not part of the data)

 - "=verb=" -> OK, because line beginning and ending are allowed
 - "(=verb=)" -> OK
 - " =verb=}" -> OK. Space/blank and curly bracket allowed

- "=verb=\" -> OK. Backslash at the end.
- "\=verb=" -> BAD. Backslash in the beginning not allowed. No 
formatting happens.

- ")=verb=(" -> BAD. "inverted" brackets not allowed.
- "=verb=." ->OK. Dot at the end.
- ".=verb=" -> BAD. Dot at the beginning.

IMHO there shouldn't be a difference in the allowed characters in front 
of the beginning inline marker (the "=" here in the example) and the one 
after the ending inline marker.


First of all it would help me if this is documented somewhere.

Second it would improve my (regex) code (which have to parse such 
org-markup) and its maintainability if allowed characters would be 
uniform/consistent.


Kind
Christian

Re: asterisk allowed for list items

[c . buhtz]

Dear Ihor,

thanks for your reply.

Am 29.04.2022 15:49 schrieb Ihor Radchenko:

Exactly because you are actively trying to understand the syntax, you
are in unique situation where you can easily see all the "opaque" 
places

in the syntax description.


I still don't know if I misunderstand the syntax description document or 
if there is really and "error" in it.



That's why I ask you to propose modifications
to the document that would make it easier to read for you.


First of all I have to understand everything and then write that down 
for my self (especially as Python code and unittests).


My english is awful and it wouldn't help you. I even do not understand 
all words and sentences (from a language perspective) of the syntax 
description document. I am not into it enough to propose a patch. I can 
only offer you "my understanding" of the document and "testing" a new 
version of it.

Re: asterisk allowed for list items

[c . buhtz]

Dear Detlef

Am 29.04.2022 15:04 schrieb Detlef Steuer:

But *first* it should be easily read- and writable by humans and only
then easily parseble by parsers! At least imho.


I agree and understand that this is one of the design principals of Org.

But even for humans the current situation is IMHO not "easy". When I 
want to have asterix bullet for my list items I always have to think 
about the trailing whitespace to prevent Org from interpreting this as a 
heading.

Re: asterisk allowed for list items

[c . buhtz]

Am 29.04.2022 14:15 schrieb Ihor Radchenko:

Would you be interested to contribute an example to
https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Items ?


Not sure what you mean. Currently I just try to understand the syntax 
and get the hard rules for my own parser. ;)


 - List item with whitespace before and after bullet
 + List item with whitespace before and after bullet
 * List item with whitespace before and after bullet

- List item with whitespace only after bullet
+ List item with whitespace only after bullet
* A heading because there is no whitespace before the bullet

btw: There is a "problem" with the mailinglist. Follow-Up and Reply-To 
is ignored. I always get copy to my own adress instead of the 
mailinglist. I do not need copies. This is noise.

Re: asterisk allowed for list items

[c . buhtz]

I need to add something here and think the syntax description should be 
updated about that.


A "*" is allowed or recognized as a list item instead as a head only if 
there is one (or maybe more) whitespace space in front of it.


But "-" and "+" also recognized as starts for list items without any 
trailing whitespace in front of them.


Sidenote: As someone who writes software that parse org-content I would 
suggest to make the whitespace in front of a list item mandatory even 
for "-" and "+". It would reduce code complexity.


Am 29.04.2022 13:53 schrieb c.bu...@posteo.jp:

I was looking into https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Items
to find out which characters are allowed as "bullets" for unorderd
lists.

I cite from there
"An asterisk, hyphen, or plus sign character (i.e., *, -, or +)."

I wonder why * is allowed because * also starts a heading. So how does
a piece of software/parser decide if a line starting with an * is a
heading or a list item?

Ordered list items and the point

[c . buhtz]

This is about https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Plain_Lists

Comparing the syntax description and the real world behaviour of my 
Emacs 27 with org from yesterday it seems to me that the syntax 
description is not correct.


I cite "Plain Lists" section:
"If first item in a plain list has a COUNTER in its BULLET, the plain 
list will be an “ordered plain-list”."


This is not true in many ways because in the section "Items" a COUNTER 
is described as

"Either a number or a single letter (a-z)."

An ordered list item need to have a point after its digit. Correct is 
"1. item"; incorrect is "1 item". As an alternative to the "." an ")" is 
allowed also.


A letter is not a COUNTER no matter if there is an "." or ")" after it. 
An org-buffer and org-html-export-as-html does not recognize this as a 
list item.


Do I miss something? Are there any other characters that need to 
considered?

asterisk allowed for list items

[c . buhtz]

I was looking into https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Items to 
find out which characters are allowed as "bullets" for unorderd lists.


I cite from there
"An asterisk, hyphen, or plus sign character (i.e., *, -, or +)."

I wonder why * is allowed because * also starts a heading. So how does a 
piece of software/parser decide if a line starting with an * is a 
heading or a list item?

Link display not working for orgroam links as items in enumeration

[c . buhtz]

- [[id:8adf8391-5aa7-40d7-bedf-4a794dc228b2][Galvin (2017) Adverse 
outcomes in  
  older adults attending 
emergency departments. a systematic review and meta-analysis of the  
 
   Identification of Seniors At Risk (ISAR) screening 
tool]]

Name the different types of links in an org file

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

I just want to find the correct terms of the different types of links an 
org file can have. This is not only about orgmode but orgroam (version 1 
and 2) also.


Currently I know and "understand" this types of links.

1. Hyperlinks
Example: [[https://foo.bar][Link description]]
This links can also point to files on the local filesystem etc

2. Org-roam ID-Links (version 2)
Example: [[ID:123456789][Link description]]

3. Old Org-roam (version 1) links
I have never seen them in real world but I assume this are usual 
to-local-file-links as described in point 1.


4. Roam Links
I also have seen links like this
[[roam:Foobar][Foobar]] or [[roam:Foobar]]
I know them as "placeholders" or dead-links when want to insert a link 
to an orgroam node that does not exist yet. In my workflow deadlinks 
like this are like reminders for me that I should create a node.

But I am not sure what type of link this is in other situations.

Am I right here? Did I miss something?

Please feel free to correct the names of the link types and correct my 
explanation.


Kind
Christian

Re: Multiline list entries / Is auto-fill-mode in org(roam) usual?

[c . buhtz]

Dear Tim

Am 04.04.2022 17:49 schrieb Tim Cross:

What is line-fill-mode? It isn't a 'standard' emacs mode, so must be
some add-on?


Sorry this was a "typo".


At any rate, I don't see this problem when using standard
auto-fill-mode. With this mode, when lines wrap (because I've exceeded
the fill column) or if I use C-q to trigger filling, the wrapped lines
are indented correctly so that lists are preserved.


This is not the case with me.
Please see this screenrecording
https://debianforum.de/forum/gallery/image/3641/source

In the top window you see the relevant lines from my init.el.
In the bottom you see a orgroam capture buffer while I am tiping a 
loreipsum line and exceeding the fill column. It is not intended.


And that is how it looks like in raw org

:PROPERTIES:
:ID:   7fe439ec-c46d-4da5-902a-3ba40cebb25e
:END:
#+title: test
#+date: [2022-04-04 Mo 20:04]
- Lorem ipsum dolro sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam 
nonumy

eirmod tempor invidunt ut
- second item
  second line in second item
-

The first list entry got its newline char automatically via 
auto-fill-mode.

The second entry got its newline by myself via pressing RET.

Re: Multiline list entries / Is auto-fill-mode in org(roam) usual?

[c . buhtz]

Am 04.04.2022 09:16 schrieb c.bu...@posteo.jp:

Am 04.04.2022 06:06 schrieb Ihor Radchenko:

A list item continues until
there are _2_ blank lines or until the subsequent line is not indented 
>=

current list item indentation:


Intereseting. What 2 lines not 1 like in paragraphs. Am I right to say
that a paragraph ends with one blank line?


Sorry, this was misunderstanding.

I would like to know why does a list need 2 blank lines instead of 1? 
For what reason exists this rule?

Re: Multiline list entries / Is auto-fill-mode in org(roam) usual?

[c . buhtz]

Thanks to the discussion I now can see and describe my problem clearer.

When using line-fill-mode it does not take the current org list 
indention into account. Because of this org lines like this will appear.


- one entry with a very long text ending in the second line
end
- second entry

This is recognized (e.g. while html export) as two one-item-lists with a 
paragraph between them.


When I press RET myself the point is correct indented but not when it is 
done automatically via line-fill-mode.


Is there a solution for this?

Re: Multiline list entries / Is auto-fill-mode in org(roam) usual?

[c . buhtz]

Dear Ihor,

thanks for your feedback.

Am 04.04.2022 06:06 schrieb Ihor Radchenko:

A list item continues until
there are _2_ blank lines or until the subsequent line is not indented 
>=

current list item indentation:


Intereseting. What 2 lines not 1 like in paragraphs. Am I right to say 
that a paragraph ends with one blank line?



Everything is described in the manual. See
https://orgmode.org/manual/Plain-Lists.html#Plain-Lists


I showed you a worg-link. Again this is a good example why worg hurts 
more then it helps; newbies. The site looked very official.

Re: Multiline list entries / Is auto-fill-mode in org(roam) usual?

[c . buhtz]

I found org-export-as-html and tested this

- one
  eins
ens

This as html is


one
eins


ens



Am 03.04.2022 22:28 schrieb c.bu...@posteo.jp:

Hello togehter,

is it usual to have auto-fill-mode (automatic new-line after n
characters) turned on in org or org-roam (including fill-column set
e.g. to 80)?
Or let me ask from another point of view: Is it usual to have
multiline list entries?

- first list entry
- second list entry with more then 80 chars/columns two with Lorem 
ipsum dolor

sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr
- third entry

Without auto-fill-mode it would look like this, without any linebreak
in an entry:

- first list entry
- second list entry with more then 80 chars/columns two with Lorem
ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr
- third entry

I know that org is not markdown but I tried some markdown editors to
test it. They still recognize the linebreak in my first example and
rendered it "correct" as a 3 item list.
I checked the syntax docu [1] about it but I couldn't find a hint or
didn't understand.

Do I understand it correct that the end of a list is marked by an empty 
line?


[1] -- 

Multiline list entries / Is auto-fill-mode in org(roam) usual?

[c . buhtz]

Hello togehter,

is it usual to have auto-fill-mode (automatic new-line after n 
characters) turned on in org or org-roam (including fill-column set e.g. 
to 80)?
Or let me ask from another point of view: Is it usual to have multiline 
list entries?


- first list entry
- second list entry with more then 80 chars/columns two with Lorem ipsum 
dolor

sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr
- third entry

Without auto-fill-mode it would look like this, without any linebreak in 
an entry:


- first list entry
- second list entry with more then 80 chars/columns two with Lorem ipsum 
dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr

- third entry

I know that org is not markdown but I tried some markdown editors to 
test it. They still recognize the linebreak in my first example and 
rendered it "correct" as a 3 item list.
I checked the syntax docu [1] about it but I couldn't find a hint or 
didn't understand.


Do I understand it correct that the end of a list is marked by an empty 
line?


[1] -- 

Term for #+ lines (filetag, date, ...) in an org file

[c . buhtz]

In orgroam I know about lines like this

#+filetag MYTGA
#+date 0

between the PROPERTIES head and the body of the org file.

What is the term for lines like this and are there any rules or 
specifications about how they should(n't) look like?


Kind
Christian

DOC "Org Mode tools": orgparse is missing

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

some tool is missing in the documentation here: 
https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tools/index.html


"orgparse" (https://orgparse.readthedocs.io/en/latest/)

Also remove "PyOrgParse" which is not maintained anymore and points 
itself to "orgparse".


Kind
Christian

org-roam to HTML: My needs are unusual?

[c . buhtz]

Hello together,

this post is not about a technical problem but I need your advice and 
opinion as experienced org(roam) users and developers. I am a bit 
frustrated.


Some of you have noticed that I tried to generate HTML files out of my 
org-roam notes. In the current state I am failed. On one side because of 
technical problems/bugs and on the other side because of tools not 
fitting my needs.


At the end I would subscribe my need like that:
I want all my org-roam-v2 notes (means org file with ID-links) 
transformed to HTML-files which I can use via file:// protocol (means 
without a server).


Sounds simple to me but the reality looks different. And I wonder if my 
use case is not so usual as I thought. Am I the only person experience 
that problems?


I tried ox-publish but there are problems (and known bugs [1]) with 
creating correct links/urls between the HTML-files based on the 
org-roam-v2-ID-links. I do not understand the technical details and I am 
not able to surly reproduce the problems. But I heard from many sides 
that I am not the only person with that problem.


ox-hugo with hugo is often mentioned in the context. But ox-hugo is not 
able to export everything out-of-the-box [2]. And the HTML files 
generated by hugo are not usable via the file:// protocol without some 
hacks [3].


My wish would be that the ox-publish would work. I prefer in-build 
things. But I am not sure how the result would look like if it work.


Currently I think about creating a Python tool parsing the org files by 
itself and doing all the needed stuff. But I do not want to waste my 
time here when the ox-publish problem is solved in the next months.


Thanks in advance
Christian

[1] -- 
[2] -- 
[3] -- 

bug-tracker: How to response/subscribe to a bug-thread

[c . buhtz]

Hello,
I still try to become warm with the bug-tracking-system you are using.

There is a known bug that is also tracked on the "dashboard" 
(https://updates.orgmode.org/) as "Inconsistent handling of id: links to 
other file during publish".

https://list.orgmode.org/12368452.sVpYeFqCzH@pluto/

I was not subscribed to the list when this thread comes up. So I have no 
mail here I can reply-to. I can I answer to that thread?


Side question: I can I monitor that thread/bug without being subscribed 
to the list? The "dashboard" seems not to have any subscribe, monitor or 
feed mechanism. The "Atom" feed (https://list.orgmode.org/new.atom) is 
only for complete list not for one thread.


Kind
Christian

Re: ox-publish: Some starting problems

[c . buhtz]

Dear Max,

thank's a lot for your help and your patience with a newbie.

Am 09.03.2022 16:32 schrieb Max Nikulin:

3.
I use (setq org-export-with-broken-links t) with and without 
":with-broken-links "mark"" to prevend ox-publish stopping when there 
are broken links. I swear and I also checked that there are only a few 
of them. But in the HTML output all links are gone. No links. No text 
for the links.


If you insist on setq than try
   (setq org-export-with-broken-links 'mark)
without :with-broken-links. You can get correct value using easy
customization interface. It does not matter for
`org-export-with-broken-links', but some custom variables have :set
property, so the following may be generally better
   (custom-set-variables
'(org-export-with-broken-links 'mark))


Do you mean that (setq org-export-with-broken-links 'mark) is the same 
as :with-broken-links mark? This are just two different ways to set the 
same thing?

How do I know as a newbie? ;)

Why using custom-set variables here? Is there something wrong with just 
doing

(org-export-with-broken-links t)
?

I tried to reproduce this in a minimal example with two new nodes. But 
for them the links are generated.


It seems, changing project options or global variables does not lead
to updating of the files if the sources have not modified.


I do not understand. Do you a see a solution for the problem?


There is a known problem with id links. They may be broken if they
lead to another file:
inkbottle. org-id with ox-html. Sat, 14 Aug 2021 00:28:35 +0200
https://list.orgmode.org/4617246.m1MCmUpgFQ@pluto/


Great to know. Is there a way to monitor (subscribe) to the "dashboard"? 
A bugtracker where I can not track a bug is not a bugtracker. :D
OK, bugs going to the mailing list. But am I allowed to attach extra 
files (zip) to my mails to the mailinglist? Some bug reports need 
attached files. But I learned and agree that it is rude to attach files 
to a mailing list.


Back to the bug.
The bug-thread is hard for me to understand because of a lot of internal 
details. What is the current essence? Currently there is no way to use 
ox-publish with org-roam-v2 generated org files which use IDs as links?

But as I told sometimes the links are generated.

Btw: Also in my minimal working example I was not able to surly 
reproduce the problem. Sometimes it works sometimes not. I also deleted 
~/.emacs.d/org-roam.db, ~/.org-timestamps and ~/.emacs-d/.orgid-indexes 
(I forget the correct name for the latter).



org-mode is a mode, ox-publish maybe a package (actually unsure).
I thought it was a separate thing because of "(require ox-publish)". 
Again: How do I as a newbie know?



That page specifies related global variable, so you can try
`describe-variable' C-h v with the related name.


I know that and I did. But this is waste of time when I have to do this 
for each of the variable in that big list.



6.
Is there a way to integrated backlinks into output?


Do you mean something specific to org-roam?


I am not sure but maybe yes. ;)
I can do C-c n l which invokes org-roam-buffer-toogle and shows me an 
extra buffer with a list of all nodes (org-files?) which are linking to 
the current open node.

Re: ox-publish: Some starting problems

[c . buhtz]

Some additional information.

Am 09.03.2022 09:55 schrieb c.bu...@posteo.jp:

2.
Because ox-publish is skipping "unmodified files"
[..]
nothing is generated anymore.


Doing this forces ox-publish to generated everything
M: (org-publish "projectname" t)



3.
[..]
in the HTML output all links are gone. No links. No text
for the links.
I tried to reproduce this in a minimal example with two new nodes. But
for them the links are generated.
[..]


I need to correct myself here. After forcing new generation of HTML 
content the links in the new test nodes also gone.
I am confused. I need to do further investigation here and create a 
minimal reproducible setup to find out the steps to reproduce this 
behavior.
Should I then open a bug report? Do I understand 
https://orgmode.org/worg/org-issues.html correct that there is no 
"usual" bug tracker but just he mailing list where I have to post bugs?



4.
ox-publish ignores newlines. Two short lines in the org-file becomes
one line in the HTML content.


I am still not sure but it looks like that this does fix that problem.
(setq org-export-preserve-breaks t)

ox-publish: Some starting problems

[c . buhtz]

Hello together,

I was able to generate HTML files of my org-roam (v2) nodes. But I have 
some problems and need to be pointed into the right direction.


1.
Is this mailing list the right place to discuss ox-publish related 
topics? The ox-publish.el only contains two e-mail addresses?


2.
Because ox-publish is skipping "unmodified files" I deleted all HTML 
files between the publish-runs just to be sure that there are no side 
effects. But now when my output directory is totally empty ox-publish 
still keeps saying that it is skipping the unmodified files. So nothing 
is generated anymore. How can I handle that? Maybe resetting the 
"unmodified" flag somewhere? Or shouldn't ox-publish not only check for 
modifications but if there is something earlier generated content exist?


3.
I use (setq org-export-with-broken-links t) with and without 
":with-broken-links "mark"" to prevend ox-publish stopping when there 
are broken links. I swear and I also checked that there are only a few 
of them. But in the HTML output all links are gone. No links. No text 
for the links.
I tried to reproduce this in a minimal example with two new nodes. But 
for them the links are generated.

The links (of all nodes!) are working very well inside of org-roam.
Any idea how could go on with diagnosis here?
First I thought ox-publish has a problem with org-roam-v2 id-links. But 
the two new created nodes just for testing where working well. The older 
nodes (just 2 months old) also using id-links and where created with the 
same Emacs and org-roam version.


4.
ox-publish ignores newlines. Two short lines in the org-file becomes one 
line in the HTML content.


5.
I am not totally new to Emacs but quit fresh. So I have two questions 
about how to handle the documentation and help informations here.
a) I tried to "descrbie" the mode "ox-publish". But Emacs only offers me 
an "describe-mode" which describe all currently existing nodes. There is 
nothing like "describe-mode MODENAME". How can I handle that?
b) I another thread I was pointed to 
https://orgmode.org/manual/Publishing-options.html . There is no 
description about the options they are only listed. This does not help 
me. Maybe there are some useful options that could solve some of my 
problems. But without description I am not able to decide or know.


6.
Is there a way to integrated backlinks into output?

ox-publish: no HTML output but no errors

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

I tried to use ox-publish to create HTML files out of my org files 
(created via org-roam v2) using the Tutorial 
https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-publish-html-tutorial.html .


The output directory is empty but I also do not have a valuable error 
output. On that point I did not know where to go.
I evaluatet the code (below) via C-x C-e and then did M-x 
org-publish-project RET org RET.


The message buffers looks like this

20 (("org-notes" :base-directory "~/tab-cloud/my.org-roam/" 
:base-extension "org" :publishing-directory "~/tab-cloud/_transfer/html" 
:recursive t :publishing-function org-html-publish-to-html :\
headline-levels ...) ("org-static" :base-directory 
"~/tab-cloud/my.org-roam/" :base-extension 
"css\\|js\\|png\\|jpg\\|gif\\|pdf\\|mp3\\|ogg\\|swf" 
:publishing-directory "~/tab-cloud/_transfe\
r/html" :recursive t :publishing-function org-publish-attachment) 
("org" :components ("org-notes" "org-static")))

 21 Loading /home/user/.org-timestamps/org-notes.cache...done
 22 Publishing file 
/home/user/tab-cloud/my.org-roam/20211109001227-programming_languages.org 
using ‘org-html-publish-to-html’

 23 48 files scanned, 45 files contains IDs, and 47 IDs found.
 24 45 files scanned, 45 files contains IDs, and 47 IDs found. [6 times]
 25 user-error: Unable to resolve link: 
"c6693020-d065-4d4f-8be8-650c66eee3e6"
 37 Publishing file 
/home/user/tab-cloud/my.org-roam/20211109001227-programming_languages.org 
using ‘org-html-publish-to-html’

 38 45 files scanned, 45 files contains IDs, and 47 IDs found. [7 times]
 39 user-error: Unable to resolve link: 
"c6693020-d065-4d4f-8be8-650c66eee3e6"


This is the piece of code (in scratch buffer) IMHO very near to the 
tutorials example


;https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-publish-html-tutorial.html
(require 'ox-publish)
(setq org-publish-project-alist
  '(
   ("org-notes"
   :base-directory "~/tab-cloud/my.org-roam/"
   :base-extension "org"
   :publishing-directory "~/tab-cloud/_transfer/html"
   :recursive t
   :publishing-function org-html-publish-to-html
   :headline-levels 4 ; Just the default for this 
project.

   :auto-preamble t
  )
  ("org-static"
   :base-directory "~/tab-cloud/my.org-roam/"
   :base-extension 
"css\\|js\\|png\\|jpg\\|gif\\|pdf\\|mp3\\|ogg\\|swf"

   :publishing-directory "~/tab-cloud/_transfer/html"
   :recursive t
   :publishing-function org-publish-attachment
  )
  ("org" :components ("org-notes" "org-static"))
  )
)

I have round about 50 org files in my archive. There is one error about 
a dead link. But this should be no problem. Dead links are OK for me and 
also a "valid content" in the context of a Zettelkasten. A dead link is 
not a reason to stop the whole process.


The "html" folder is absolute empty. Nothing in there.

How can I go on with diagnosis?

Re: Communication problems and possible problems with the website

[c . buhtz]

Dear Ihor

Am 25.02.2022 15:18 schrieb Ihor Radchenko:

Org has no official GitHub page. This is partially a requirement from
Free Software Foundation:
https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/standards.html#References


I totally and absolute support that FSF requirement.

In that case I would say org-mode does violate that requirement because 
there is a GitHub and a PayPal link on the landing page. And on the Worg 
page (which is "official" from the new users point of view) there is 
also a GitHub link.
It does not matter that there is not code on GitHub and that this is 
only for sponsoring/donations. You have the link and the logo so you 
"promote" that stuff that the FSF do not want you to promote.


Kind,
Christian

Re: Communication problems and possible problems with the website

[c . buhtz]

Am 25.02.2022 13:30 schrieb Ihor Radchenko:

If you think that the current wording is confusing, please point out
which parts. We are pretty much blind here on the potential issues for
the newcomers (for obvious reason - we are too familiar with Org).
Pointing to the confusing parts would help a lot.


The text in the buffer after M-x org-submit-bugreport says in the first 
line "You are about to submit a bug report to the Org mailing list".
This does not explain how this is done. As a (very fresh not Emacs 
familiar) user I wouldn't assume that I have to setup my Emacs as a mail 
client in that case. I would assume that there is some magic in behind. 
;)


Just write something like "Make sure your Emacs is setup to send emails 
or copy and paste the resulting buffer into an Email client of your 
choice."



5.
It is unclear where the repositories for the source code and the code 
of
the website are. If I had found them I would have created a PR/patch 
for

2.


This is confusing. If you go to orgmode.org, the git link is in the 
front

page. Also, orgmode.org -> Install will bring you to the relevant page
of the manual, which provides all possible installation options
including cloning the official git repo.


But the front-page and the Install are not the place where I would 
expect infos like that. Repos are for contributers not for users.
Users are reading "Install" and sometimes the front-page. I have not 
read the front-page but clicked on contribute.
In contribute the git thing is explained in "Details on how to submit 
patches" but there is a repo url missing.



Similarly, https://orgmode.org/worg/ has the links to its code in the
first heading:


Worg documentation on your machine
git clone https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg


Definitly my fault.

btw: I would suggest to create links or mirror repos on your GitHub 
page.



Do you recall the urls where you tried to search for the source code?


I searched behind the GitHub link (right top corner of the website) 
first.
I searched around on savannah but still have problems with the 
interface; which is another topic.


The point is that the users have to search (e.g. DuckDuckGo) because the 
links to the repo or to description that there is no public repo are not 
at the usual (compared to most of the other FOSS projects) places.

Re: Communication problems and possible problems with the website

[c . buhtz]

Dear Russell,

thank your for the explanations and taking my issues into account.

Am 25.02.2022 13:25 schrieb Russell Adams:

On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 11:29:38AM +, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote:

This site does not make clear how to submit bug reports. It even does
not make clear that the "way" is unusual (not web-based bug-trackers
like bugreport or github). It simply says "Submit a bug report" but 
does

not how. I think the important point and information for the users is
that "Bug reports are done via E-Mail" to the mailinglist with
manipulating the headers or using Emacs itself.


Where would this belong? On the main Org page? On Worg? It's
documented under "feedback" in the manual.

All Emacs bug reports are to mailing lists. That is the usual.

On the main org-mode site the first major point under "Contribute" is
how to submit a bug report.


I was looking here: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html
Especially the section "Ways to contribute" -> "Ways that do not involve 
programming" -> "Send bug reports"

There is not described _how_ to do this. That is the point.

The first sentence links to how to produce "usefull feedback". Yes your 
are right to say, that behind that link is the M-x org-submit-bug-report 
described.
But org-submit-bug-report is about a bug-report and not about feedback. 
Feedback is not a bug-report.
Maybe it is the simplest to write "Submit bugs to the mailing list." And 
maybe give some more details about the manipulated header and if I have 
to subscribe to the list first to submit a bugreport.


What I meant with "unusual" is that in the broader context of FOSS it is 
unusual to do bug reports via M-x ...

By the way I wasn't aware that Emacs itself implements this way, too.

It is unclear where the repositories for the source code and the code 
of
the website are. If I had found them I would have created a PR/patch 
for

2.


Which site?

https://orgmode.org/ is administered by Org maintainers. I'm not sure
where that repo is, and it's not publicly writable.


From my point of view this is unusual to. But this just should made 
clear to the users. I wasted time searching the repo. Just write "The 
repo is not publicly available". ;)

Because orgmode is FOSS everyone (new to it) would expect a source repo.

Kind
Christian

Communication problems and possible problems with the website

[c . buhtz]

Hello together,

I accept that most of you does the work in your unpayed free time and 
that each project has it's own "vibes" and ways to do things.
I just wan't to show you my experience with my tries to communicate with 
the project. It is not my goal to vent my anger; and I even have no 
anger. My goal is to improve the project not only my own experience!


And I hope it is OK that I collect all the items in one mail together.

1.
This website has a lot of deadlinks.
https://orgmode.org/worg/exporters/ox-overview.html

2.
This website
https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-publish-html-tutorial.html
at the end in sub-section "Further reading" points to the mailinglist 
but only to the archive 
(http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/) not to the 
list-subscription site 
(https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode).

And on the archive site there is no link to the subscription site.

3.
This site does not make clear how to submit bug reports. It even does 
not make clear that the "way" is unusual (not web-based bug-trackers 
like bugreport or github). It simply says "Submit a bug report" but does 
not how. I think the important point and information for the users is 
that "Bug reports are done via E-Mail" to the mailinglist with 
manipulating the headers or using Emacs itself.


4.
Search more around I found out that I have to submit bugreports from 
inside Emacs via M-x org-something

Make clear that I have to setup Emacs for sending emails in that case.
In my case I am not able to submit regular bug-reports because I do not 
manipulate my headers and my Emacs is not setup for emails.


5.
It is unclear where the repositories for the source code and the code of 
the website are. If I had found them I would have created a PR/patch for 
2.


Kind regards
Christian

Use-case: simple nodes and todo-list

[c . buhtz]

Hello,

I still read something about org-mode.

It is a complex and powerfull tool. I now try fit/transform my current 
workflow and use-cases to org-mode. So maybe you can give me a simple 
yes-now if this could be fullfilled with org-mode.


1. Simple notes with keywords and endless time to life
I have notes (most of them as post-its on the wall and monitor in my 
office) with information's I am not able or willing to remember. But I 
need this information's every few days. e.g. numbers for bank-account, 
projects, persons
I find this information's by place (post-it glued to a specific place in 
my office). When they are digitized I would use keywords or in-text 
search. e.g. searching for the project name "my project" to find its 
number.


2.ToDo List without time information's
Currently I use a one-page-paper handwritten as a ToDo List. I re-create 
it every week. It helps me. I make priorities with some colors or 
underlines. And it (maybe) makes my workload visible to my leaders when 
sitting in a meeting and having the ToDo list on the table. ;)
In the past I also tried "taskwarrior". Very powerfull, I loved it. But 
it did not fit to my workflow. I know this is apocalyptic and hard to 
imagine but deadlines are useless in my workflow. :D So taskwarrior did 
not helped be it just build up more pressure to me. Simple explanation: 
My work is influenced by to much unknown external spontaneous factors. 
It is useless to make plans/deadlines. Yes it is horror, I work on it. 
But I am not on that level of the hierarchy to make the fundamental 
needed changes.


What do you think?

Do you have any sources that explain org-mode with showing real life 
use-cases?


kind