Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Jay Belanger jay.p.belan...@gmail.com wrote: I want to use a small netbook exclusively for Org-mode. That's why I think I do not need X. You may not need it, but a lightweight window manager like WindowMaker fvwm or maybe a tiling WM like awesome may be worth a second look. Have a look here: If the netbook will only be used for org-mode, and so perhaps only running Emacs, a WM might not even be necessary. If only one Emacs frame is used, it could probably be run on bare X. This works for me: cat /tmp/em.sh '%%%' #!/bin/sh /usr/bin/emacs %%% chmod 755 /tmp/em.sh XINITRC=/tmp/em.sh xinit -- :2.0 Cheers, Eduardo Ochs eduardoo...@gmail.com http://angg.twu.net/
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:42:27 + (UTC), Karl wrote: Does anybody use Org in a non-graphical environment? Is it possible to make the (all) keys work? Look at section 15.9 in the Org manual, Using Org on a tty. There are alternative keys for all the keys that don't work on a terminal (on GNU/Linux, there is effectively no difference between a virtual console and a terminal). One other thing you might consider would be to run a minimalistic graphical environment. Instead of using a desktop environment like Gnome or KDE, use a simple window manager like openbox, or a tiling window manager like dwm, awesome, or stumpwm (my favorite). If the only application you're going to be running under X will be emacs, there's no reason not to use dwm for your window manager, actually. -- +---+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcb...@carcosa.net | | If someone conquers a thousand times a thousand others in | | battle, and someone else conquers himself, the latter one | | is the greatest of all conquerors. --- The Dhammapada |
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
I often use org in emacs inside an xterm (because the emacs is running on a machine far away and remote x emacs is piggy about bandwidth). Several observations: keys like shift-up sometimes work I think local xterm is somehow making a keycode and sending it over ssh. So it seems like in environments where there's a notion of 7-bit ASCII character sets and the 8th bit being available for meta, emacs tries to cope with that. I use no locale settings. But on machines with LC_ALL=en_US.utf-8 or some such, I find that the meta key doesn't work in emacs any more (at least on remote logins) You can avoid all those keys and do things in org other ways. I tend to c-c c-s and type a new date, rather than use arrows anyway. There is (setq org-use-speed-commands t) and then 'l' and 'r' on headings will demote/promote. I like this because I don't have to remember if I'm in an environment where shift-arrow works. (IMHO it's a bug in org that anything mainstream uses keystrokes that are not available in a regular terminal. Back when I was young, we didn't have X, and had to carry our own VT52s to school. :-) pgp9WvPitVkFF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
Karl ignora...@gmx.de writes: Does anybody use Org in a non-graphical environment? Is it possible to make the (all) keys work? Mhh, surprised no one mentioned it: ,[ (info (org)TTY keys) ] | Because Org contains a large number of commands, by default many of | Org's core commands are bound to keys that are generally not accessible | on a tty, such as the cursor keys (left, right, up, down), | TAB and RET, in particular when used together with modifiers like | Meta and/or Shift. To access these commands on a tty when special | keys are unavailable, the following alternative bindings can be used. `[...] hth Memnon
[O] Org without X on Debian
Dear Org-mode users, I want to use a small netbook exclusively for Org-mode. That's why I think I do not need X. I set up a minimal Debian GNU/Linux Squeeze with Emacs 23.2.1 and the latest Org-mode version (7.8.03). But then I recognized that some key combinations don't work. For example: - Meta-arrow keys to not demote and promote headings - Shift-arrow keys cannot select a date in the calendar when I want to add a date, e.g. with C-c C-s. - Shift-TAB don't work - Shift-arrow keys do not change TODO state - (certainly more key combinations) Does anybody use Org in a non-graphical environment? Is it possible to make the (all) keys work? Thanks! Karl
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
Karl ignora...@gmx.de writes: Dear Org-mode users, I want to use a small netbook exclusively for Org-mode. That's why I think I do not need X. I set up a minimal Debian GNU/Linux Squeeze with Emacs 23.2.1 and the latest Org-mode version (7.8.03). But then I recognized that some key combinations don't work. For example: - Meta-arrow keys to not demote and promote headings - Shift-arrow keys cannot select a date in the calendar when I want to add a date, e.g. with C-c C-s. - Shift-TAB don't work - Shift-arrow keys do not change TODO state - (certainly more key combinations) Does anybody use Org in a non-graphical environment? Is it possible to make the (all) keys work? Thanks! Karl It depends fully on the terminal you are using and the corresponding terminfo or whatever its called - a nightmare of complexity and hacks ;) I tried this a good while back and, to my shame, simply gave up in frustration. Hopefully you have better luck!
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
Hi Richard, Richard Riley rileyrg at gmail.com writes: It depends fully on the terminal you are using and the corresponding terminfo or whatever its called - a nightmare of complexity and hacks ;) I tried this a good while back and, to my shame, simply gave up in frustration. Hopefully you have better luck! Maybe I'm wrong but isn't there a difference between a terminal (such as gnome-terminal) and a console? I do not have any graphical environment on the maschine I'm working on. I use a virtual console of the linux kernel. Karl
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 31/01/12 14:42, Karl wrote: Dear Org-mode users, I want to use a small netbook exclusively for Org-mode. That's why I think I do not need X. I set up a minimal Debian GNU/Linux Squeeze with Emacs 23.2.1 and the latest Org-mode version (7.8.03). But then I recognized that some key combinations don't work. For example: - Meta-arrow keys to not demote and promote headings - Shift-arrow keys cannot select a date in the calendar when I want to add a date, e.g. with C-c C-s. - Shift-TAB don't work - Shift-arrow keys do not change TODO state - (certainly more key combinations) Does anybody use Org in a non-graphical environment? Is it possible to make the (all) keys work? Don't know - but I confirm this behavior, even when starting emacs in a virtual console under Ubuntu (complete X installation) Cheers, Rainer Thanks! Karl - -- Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany) Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology Stellenbosch University South Africa Tel : +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44 Cell: +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98 Fax : +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44 Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44 email: rai...@krugs.de Skype: RMkrug -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk8n+JMACgkQoYgNqgF2egoGpwCbBMaVGOpA1EGObUUXPVwLv2X7 r1AAn2Ykaxo8FUdAGTxgCRdU5lHCzqVC =yugP -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
Karl ignora...@gmx.de writes: Hi Richard, Richard Riley rileyrg at gmail.com writes: It depends fully on the terminal you are using and the corresponding terminfo or whatever its called - a nightmare of complexity and hacks ;) I tried this a good while back and, to my shame, simply gave up in frustration. Hopefully you have better luck! Maybe I'm wrong but isn't there a difference between a terminal (such as gnome-terminal) and a console? I do not have any graphical environment on the maschine I'm working on. I use a virtual console of the linux kernel. Yes, but certain keys are simply not catered for in that console. Its complex and I dont claim to fully understand it. But at the end of the day this console still needs to read the keyboard and translate it into emacs friendly chords.
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
Hi, Karl ignora...@gmx.de writes: Does anybody use Org in a non-graphical environment? Is it possible to make the (all) keys work? I use it inside GNUscreen running in a gnome-terminal. I have also tried (for a limited time) to make all the keys work but to no avail. If you find more information on a possible solution for this, I think many would be interested. Cheers, -- Ángel de Vicente http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
Karl ignora...@gmx.de writes: I want to use a small netbook exclusively for Org-mode. That's why I think I do not need X. You may not need it, but a lightweight window manager like WindowMaker fvwm or maybe a tiling WM like awesome may be worth a second look. Have a look here: http://www.junauza.com/2008/08/20-most-nimble-and-simple-x-window.html But then I recognized that some key combinations don't work. That can be made to work (I've blissfully forgotten how to since it's been ages that I had to use a serial terminal line), but there is a bit of cooperation required between the terminal emulation and Emacs (it likely is the terminal that currently does not send those Meta/Shift combination events to Emacs). More importantly, using just the terminal you will soon want to use something like screen, which again likes to claim its own keyboard handling and adds more interference. Which gets us back to that point that maybe you really just want a different WM instead of using the virtual terminal emulations. Regards, Achim. -- +[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]+ Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf rackAttack: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
Achim Gratz strom...@nexgo.de writes: Karl ignora...@gmx.de writes: I want to use a small netbook exclusively for Org-mode. That's why I think I do not need X. You may not need it, but a lightweight window manager like WindowMaker fvwm or maybe a tiling WM like awesome may be worth a second look. Have a look here: I will second this. I use ratpoison and have it configured so it actually looks like a console (no borders, no labels, ...). Maximises the screen real estate and yet provides a full Emacs experience including full colours (not just 16 or whatever you get with the console) and all the various keystrokes (M-right etc.). I used to use console+screen but found the limitations of the console frustrating. I still do use this combination when connecting via ssh from my phone but that's for quick 'n dirty access only and I put up with the reduced interface capabilities. -- : Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.92.1 : using Org-mode version 7.8.03 (release_7.8.03.283.g171ea)
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
I want to use a small netbook exclusively for Org-mode. That's why I think I do not need X. You may not need it, but a lightweight window manager like WindowMaker fvwm or maybe a tiling WM like awesome may be worth a second look. Have a look here: If the netbook will only be used for org-mode, and so perhaps only running Emacs, a WM might not even be necessary. If only one Emacs frame is used, it could probably be run on bare X.
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian / screen, but in X
On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:43:58 + Angel de Vicente ang...@iac.es wrote: Hi, Karl ignora...@gmx.de writes: Does anybody use Org in a non-graphical environment? Is it possible to make the (all) keys work? I use it inside GNUscreen running in a gnome-terminal. I have also tried (for a limited time) to make all the keys work but to no avail. If you find more information on a possible solution for this, I think many would be interested. I've just set up my Android tablet to play nicely with screen and emacs-nox. All that under openSuse, but that shouldn't matter too much. My notes taken yesterday: * Working remotely with emacs and org-mode My calendar exists as a screen session running emacs-nox running org-mode running in a virtual machine in our data center. First I need a tunnel into the university's network. This can very nicely be solved with sshtunnel from the market. Second I need a terminal connection. Connectbot is _the_ tool. Third I need to input a lot of Ctrl, ESC, Alt keys. Hacker's Keyboard to the rescue! On the unix machine I have to set TERM=xterm explicitly to let the arrow keys come through screen. Key was to start emacs as TERM=xterm emacs-nox todo.org inside my screen session. The last thing giving some problems were the S-arrow combinations so useful for editing dates in orgmode when accessing remotely. Some keybindings for emacs will help. (global-set-key (kbd f2) 'org-shiftup) (global-set-key (kbd f10) 'org-shiftdown) (global-set-key (kbd f5) 'org-shiftleft) (global-set-key (kbd f7) 'org-shiftright) (global-set-key (kbd f1) 'org-agenda-do-earlier) (global-set-key (kbd f3) 'org-agenda-do-later) (Hacker's Keyboard has an 4x4 Fn-Key layout. Just take a look, then you'll understand why this scheme was chosen. ) Btw. in portait mode Hacker's Keyboard on 35% gives 41 lines for the terminal. (note to self) This setup at least works good enough for me. Org-mode, the real thing, everywhere at my fingertipps. Detlef Cheers, -- Ángel de Vicente http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian / screen, but in X
Hi Detlef, Detlef Steuer wrote: The last thing giving some problems were the S-arrow combinations so useful for editing dates in orgmode when accessing remotely. Some keybindings for emacs will help. (global-set-key (kbd f2) 'org-shiftup) (global-set-key (kbd f10) 'org-shiftdown) (global-set-key (kbd f5) 'org-shiftleft) (global-set-key (kbd f7) 'org-shiftright) (global-set-key (kbd f1) 'org-agenda-do-earlier) (global-set-key (kbd f3) 'org-agenda-do-later) FMI, what's the definition of your `org-agenda-do-earlier/later' functions? Best regards, Seb -- Sebastien Vauban
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian / screen, but in X
On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 23:34:42 +0100 Sebastien Vauban wxhgmqzgw...@spammotel.com wrote: Hi Detlef, Detlef Steuer wrote: The last thing giving some problems were the S-arrow combinations so useful for editing dates in orgmode when accessing remotely. Some keybindings for emacs will help. (global-set-key (kbd f2) 'org-shiftup) (global-set-key (kbd f10) 'org-shiftdown) (global-set-key (kbd f5) 'org-shiftleft) (global-set-key (kbd f7) 'org-shiftright) (global-set-key (kbd f1) 'org-agenda-do-earlier) (global-set-key (kbd f3) 'org-agenda-do-later) FMI, what's the definition of your `org-agenda-do-earlier/later' functions? Sorry, must read: (global-set-key (kbd f1) 'org-agenda-do-date-earlier) (global-set-key (kbd f3) 'org-agenda-do-date-later) Thx for spotting! Regards Detlef Best regards, Seb -- Sebastien Vauban
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
I use org in a non-graphical environment but so far haven't tried any of those key combinations mentioned. It's possible those need their own keystrokes to be configured for non-graphical use. I prefer using non-graphical environments since me being totally blind those environments offer no benefits and with the use of orca, can be very unstable from time to time.On Tue, 31 Jan 2012, Rainer M Krug wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 31/01/12 14:42, Karl wrote: Dear Org-mode users, I want to use a small netbook exclusively for Org-mode. That's why I think I do not need X. I set up a minimal Debian GNU/Linux Squeeze with Emacs 23.2.1 and the latest Org-mode version (7.8.03). But then I recognized that some key combinations don't work. For example: - Meta-arrow keys to not demote and promote headings - Shift-arrow keys cannot select a date in the calendar when I want to add a date, e.g. with C-c C-s. - Shift-TAB don't work - Shift-arrow keys do not change TODO state - (certainly more key combinations) Does anybody use Org in a non-graphical environment? Is it possible to make the (all) keys work? Don't know - but I confirm this behavior, even when starting emacs in a virtual console under Ubuntu (complete X installation) Cheers, Rainer Thanks! Karl - -- Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany) Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology Stellenbosch University South Africa Tel : +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44 Cell: +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98 Fax : +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44 Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44 email: rai...@krugs.de Skype: RMkrug -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk8n+JMACgkQoYgNqgF2egoGpwCbBMaVGOpA1EGObUUXPVwLv2X7 r1AAn2Ykaxo8FUdAGTxgCRdU5lHCzqVC =yugP -END PGP SIGNATURE- Jude jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html
Re: [O] Org without X on Debian
keymap I suspect is the controling factor here. Maybe org-mode in the future could either load its own keys from the .emacs file or hae loadkeys run and run its own keymap file.On Tue, 31 Jan 2012, Karl wrote: Hi Richard, Richard Riley rileyrg at gmail.com writes: It depends fully on the terminal you are using and the corresponding terminfo or whatever its called - a nightmare of complexity and hacks ;) I tried this a good while back and, to my shame, simply gave up in frustration. Hopefully you have better luck! Maybe I'm wrong but isn't there a difference between a terminal (such as gnome-terminal) and a console? I do not have any graphical environment on the maschine I'm working on. I use a virtual console of the linux kernel. Karl Jude jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html
