Re: [Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
Hi Dan, On 2010-04-27, Dan Davison davi...@stats.ox.ac.uk wrote: Another way to look at it is that this is an annotation mechanism. It can be used for any type of file or buffer. This would include text, websites (i.e. pointing to and annotating documents on the web), dired, source code, org files, html source, etc. Modifying existing link syntax will be difficult, especially because there might be additional features we need a year or two from now. For maximum flexibility and simplicity, this might be a good first use of extensible syntax. Hi Samuel, I'm not quite clear what you're referring to when you say this in the above sentences. Also, when you say extensible syntax, are you referring to the existing link syntax, or to a proposed extension? this means the idea in this thread. Extensible syntax is a specific, documented proposal. I posted some of the idea to this list a long time ago, as Carsten pointed out. One application of extensible syntax is this. :) You can use extensible syntax for any feature you want. this is links with special subfeatures that would be difficult to program into ordinary link syntax. Samuel Thanks, Dan Samuel -- Q: How many CDC scientists does it take to change a lightbulb? A: You only think it's dark. [CDC has denied a deadly disease for 25 years] == Retrovirus: http://www.wpinstitute.org/xmrv/index.html ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:40:35 -0400, Dan Davison davi...@stats.ox.ac.uk wrote: I'm considering investigating the following and would appreciate comments on this idea. The aim is to make it easier to use Org-mode to work pure code files which are *external to Org-mode* (i.e. this proposal lies outside of the current org-babel tangling framework). - Extend Org file links to allow links to a range of lines in a file. The syntax could be [[file:/path/to/file::from::to][linkname]] +1 I like this idea, especially for exporting complex documents. If org-store-link were enhanced to generate links with this line information, I would probably use this a lot. - These links will bring up a buffer visiting the target file, narrowed to the target region. Or could be brought up with a wide view but with the region selected? - 'from' and 'to' could be line numbers, or regexps for text search. The latter could be quite appealing, although possibly a little fragile. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
This functionality would be really useful. Since it is more directly applicable for programming, then maybe an easier approach to implement it would be just a link to a function in a file. For instance [[file_def:/path/to/file::definition_name][linkname]] Org could rely on the capability of the target major-mode to select the region enclosing the function (c-mark-function for C/C++, py-mark-def-or-class for python, mark-defun for lisp, etc.). This would avoid the necessity of including commenting marks in the code and although it would be limited to a function body at a time it would be enough in many situations. Darlan 2010/4/27 Eric S Fraga ucec...@ucl.ac.uk: On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:40:35 -0400, Dan Davison davi...@stats.ox.ac.uk wrote: I'm considering investigating the following and would appreciate comments on this idea. The aim is to make it easier to use Org-mode to work pure code files which are *external to Org-mode* (i.e. this proposal lies outside of the current org-babel tangling framework). - Extend Org file links to allow links to a range of lines in a file. The syntax could be [[file:/path/to/file::from::to][linkname]] +1 I like this idea, especially for exporting complex documents. If org-store-link were enhanced to generate links with this line information, I would probably use this a lot. - These links will bring up a buffer visiting the target file, narrowed to the target region. Or could be brought up with a wide view but with the region selected? - 'from' and 'to' could be line numbers, or regexps for text search. The latter could be quite appealing, although possibly a little fragile. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode -- Darlan Cavalcante Moreira SDR4all, a new way of teaching telecommunications: http://www.sdr4all.com/ ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
Darlan Cavalcante Moreira darc...@gmail.com writes: This functionality would be really useful. Since it is more directly applicable for programming, then maybe an easier approach to implement it would be just a link to a function in a file. For instance [[file_def:/path/to/file::definition_name][linkname]] Org could rely on the capability of the target major-mode to select the region enclosing the function (c-mark-function for C/C++, py-mark-def-or-class for python, mark-defun for lisp, etc.). This would avoid the necessity of including commenting marks in the code and although it would be limited to a function body at a time it would be enough in many situations. Following in this major mode specific behavior direction, maybe it would be possible to make use of the tags functionality for linking to specific functions, chapters, etc... based on the mode of the target file. (info (emacs)Tags) ;; how great is it that gnus resolves these links Tags would allow for robust links to points in changing files without the need to place text anchors into the files themselves. The immediate downside is that tags rely on a TAGS table to resolve links. This table can easily be ignored from version control (for collaboration). Then Org-mode could use the `find-tag' function to resolve it's links, maybe in combination with the function delimiting features Darlan mentioned above to references entire function/object ranges. -- Eric Darlan 2010/4/27 Eric S Fraga ucec...@ucl.ac.uk: On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:40:35 -0400, Dan Davison davi...@stats.ox.ac.uk wrote: I'm considering investigating the following and would appreciate comments on this idea. The aim is to make it easier to use Org-mode to work pure code files which are *external to Org-mode* (i.e. this proposal lies outside of the current org-babel tangling framework). - Extend Org file links to allow links to a range of lines in a file. The syntax could be [[file:/path/to/file::from::to][linkname]] +1 I like this idea, especially for exporting complex documents. If org-store-link were enhanced to generate links with this line information, I would probably use this a lot. - These links will bring up a buffer visiting the target file, narrowed to the target region. Or could be brought up with a wide view but with the region selected? - 'from' and 'to' could be line numbers, or regexps for text search. The latter could be quite appealing, although possibly a little fragile. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
Eric Schulte schulte.e...@gmail.com writes: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira darc...@gmail.com writes: This functionality would be really useful. Since it is more directly applicable for programming, then maybe an easier approach to implement it would be just a link to a function in a file. For instance [[file_def:/path/to/file::definition_name][linkname]] Org could rely on the capability of the target major-mode to select the region enclosing the function (c-mark-function for C/C++, py-mark-def-or-class for python, mark-defun for lisp, etc.). This would avoid the necessity of including commenting marks in the code and although it would be limited to a function body at a time it would be enough in many situations. Following in this major mode specific behavior direction, maybe it would be possible to make use of the tags functionality for linking to specific functions, chapters, etc... based on the mode of the target file. This sounds like an interesting idea; I have been meaning to use tags more. However, I wouldn't want to exclude the possibility of using this functionality in a non-programming context -- i.e. collaborative editing of arbitrary text documents -- which would argue for approaches based on storing arbitrary text context using Emacs bookmarks or custom text searches. Perhaps the new functionality could involve a choice of more than one new Org link type? Dan (info (emacs)Tags) ;; how great is it that gnus resolves these links Tags would allow for robust links to points in changing files without the need to place text anchors into the files themselves. The immediate downside is that tags rely on a TAGS table to resolve links. This table can easily be ignored from version control (for collaboration). Then Org-mode could use the `find-tag' function to resolve it's links, maybe in combination with the function delimiting features Darlan mentioned above to references entire function/object ranges. -- Eric Darlan 2010/4/27 Eric S Fraga ucec...@ucl.ac.uk: On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:40:35 -0400, Dan Davison davi...@stats.ox.ac.uk wrote: I'm considering investigating the following and would appreciate comments on this idea. The aim is to make it easier to use Org-mode to work pure code files which are *external to Org-mode* (i.e. this proposal lies outside of the current org-babel tangling framework). - Extend Org file links to allow links to a range of lines in a file. The syntax could be [[file:/path/to/file::from::to][linkname]] +1 I like this idea, especially for exporting complex documents. If org-store-link were enhanced to generate links with this line information, I would probably use this a lot. - These links will bring up a buffer visiting the target file, narrowed to the target region. Or could be brought up with a wide view but with the region selected? - 'from' and 'to' could be line numbers, or regexps for text search. The latter could be quite appealing, although possibly a little fragile. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
Another way to look at it is that this is an annotation mechanism. It can be used for any type of file or buffer. This would include text, websites (i.e. pointing to and annotating documents on the web), dired, source code, org files, html source, etc. Modifying existing link syntax will be difficult, especially because there might be additional features we need a year or two from now. For maximum flexibility and simplicity, this might be a good first use of extensible syntax. Samuel -- Q: How many CDC scientists does it take to change a lightbulb? A: You only think it's dark. [CDC has denied a deadly disease for 25 years] == Retrovirus: http://www.wpinstitute.org/xmrv/index.html ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
Dan Davison davi...@stats.ox.ac.uk writes: Eric Schulte schulte.e...@gmail.com writes: Darlan Cavalcante Moreira darc...@gmail.com writes: This functionality would be really useful. Since it is more directly applicable for programming, then maybe an easier approach to implement it would be just a link to a function in a file. For instance [[file_def:/path/to/file::definition_name][linkname]] Org could rely on the capability of the target major-mode to select the region enclosing the function (c-mark-function for C/C++, py-mark-def-or-class for python, mark-defun for lisp, etc.). This would avoid the necessity of including commenting marks in the code and although it would be limited to a function body at a time it would be enough in many situations. Following in this major mode specific behavior direction, maybe it would be possible to make use of the tags functionality for linking to specific functions, chapters, etc... based on the mode of the target file. This sounds like an interesting idea; I have been meaning to use tags more. However, I wouldn't want to exclude the possibility of using this functionality in a non-programming context I agree that would be an unwelcome restriction, however maybe TAGS are not restricted to programming text ,[from (emacs) Tags ] | A tag is a reference to a subunit in a program or in a document. In | program source code, tags reference syntactic elements of the program: | functions, subroutines, data types, macros, etc. In a document, tags | reference chapters, sections, appendices, etc. Each tag specifies the | name of the file where the corresponding subunit is defined, and the | position of the subunit's definition in that file. ` also, they support general regexp tag specification through which they can be extended to arbitrary major modes. -- Eric -- i.e. collaborative editing of arbitrary text documents -- which would argue for approaches based on storing arbitrary text context using Emacs bookmarks or custom text searches. Perhaps the new functionality could involve a choice of more than one new Org link type? Dan (info (emacs)Tags) ;; how great is it that gnus resolves these links Tags would allow for robust links to points in changing files without the need to place text anchors into the files themselves. The immediate downside is that tags rely on a TAGS table to resolve links. This table can easily be ignored from version control (for collaboration). Then Org-mode could use the `find-tag' function to resolve it's links, maybe in combination with the function delimiting features Darlan mentioned above to references entire function/object ranges. -- Eric Darlan 2010/4/27 Eric S Fraga ucec...@ucl.ac.uk: On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:40:35 -0400, Dan Davison davi...@stats.ox.ac.uk wrote: I'm considering investigating the following and would appreciate comments on this idea. The aim is to make it easier to use Org-mode to work pure code files which are *external to Org-mode* (i.e. this proposal lies outside of the current org-babel tangling framework). - Extend Org file links to allow links to a range of lines in a file. The syntax could be [[file:/path/to/file::from::to][linkname]] +1 I like this idea, especially for exporting complex documents. If org-store-link were enhanced to generate links with this line information, I would probably use this a lot. - These links will bring up a buffer visiting the target file, narrowed to the target region. Or could be brought up with a wide view but with the region selected? - 'from' and 'to' could be line numbers, or regexps for text search. The latter could be quite appealing, although possibly a little fragile. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
Dan Davison davi...@stats.ox.ac.uk writes: This sounds like an interesting idea; I have been meaning to use tags more. However, I wouldn't want to exclude the possibility of using this functionality in a non-programming context -- i.e. collaborative editing of arbitrary text documents -- which would argue for approaches based on storing arbitrary text context using Emacs bookmarks or custom text searches. Perhaps the new functionality could involve a choice of more than one new Org link type? The non-programming context actually suits my original requirement better than the major-mode version. Because of the nature of the course its not uncommon to be working in a language which does not play nicely with a major mode: recent example Java Markup Language which is held as comments in a java class file. -- Giles ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
On Apr 27, 2010, at 9:19 PM, Dan Davison wrote: Samuel Wales samolog...@gmail.com writes: Another way to look at it is that this is an annotation mechanism. It can be used for any type of file or buffer. This would include text, websites (i.e. pointing to and annotating documents on the web), dired, source code, org files, html source, etc. Modifying existing link syntax will be difficult, especially because there might be additional features we need a year or two from now. For maximum flexibility and simplicity, this might be a good first use of extensible syntax. Hi Samuel, I'm not quite clear what you're referring to when you say this in the above sentences. Also, when you say extensible syntax, are you referring to the existing link syntax, or to a proposed extension? Samuel wrote about this a year ago. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/11896/match=wales+extensible - Carsten ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
On 4/26/2010 7:19 PM, Dan Davison wrote: Mark Elstonm_els...@comcast.net writes: Dan, The use of line numbers seems a little error prone since line numbers can change dramatically by simply editing the file. If you edit one section of a file, even if you update the line numbers for that section, you will need to search out all the *other* links to sections in that file and update them as well as they will become stale. And, since it will be possible to have multiple org files with links into a single source file, this will be a *very* difficult thing to manage. Hi Mark, Your idea about regexps sounds promising, though. My current thought is that Emacs bookmarks might be the technology to use here. They seem to be designed for this task (saving a reference to a location in a file which is robust to mild file alteration), they are almost 20 years old, and there is already org-bookmarks.el in contrib by Tokuya Kameshima[1]. I haven't tried this so I don't know how resilient it is to changes in the target file. (info (emacs) Bookmarks) You could define 'markers' in comments delimiting the relevant sections of code and org could search these out easily enough. My hope was to avoid forcing the target files to receive extra Org-related content. E.g. suppose that the target files are a collaborative project involving non-Org users that is under version control; one wouldn't want to commit those special tags, and one wouldn't particularly want to have to filter them out them when making commits. It's the non-org users that would, of course, be the 'problem', though. They are the ones likely to make non-mild edits and not update links. In a collaborative project you will likely always be trying to keep your links up-to-date without some kind of marker in the code. Dan [1] I haven't looked into this properly, but to avoid staleness one possibility would be to modify Tokuya's links to actually include the lisp form defining the bookmark (i.e. the entry in bookmark-alist) in the non-visible portion of the link (?). My proposed range links would employ two bookmarks. Mark ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
Hi Giles, Giles Chamberlin wrote: I've been using org-mode for some course work: write an essay about your software including the interesting bits, add all source code in an appendix. #+INCLUDE solves the inclusion of source code files very nicely - I'm guaranteed that my document includes the latest versions, type set as I wish. Unfortunately at the moment I'm cutting and pasting the snippets of interesting code into the body of the essay. What I'd like to do is be able to label interesting regions of code in the source file and then import the labelled blocks into my essay. Is there a way of doing this? Have a look at Org-Babel. Though, it means your source code would be *inside* your Org document, and you would have to tangle it (generate it) from there. Seb -- Sébastien Vauban ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
Sébastien Vauban wxhgmqzgw...@spammotel.com writes: Hi Giles, Giles Chamberlin wrote: I've been using org-mode for some course work: write an essay about your software including the interesting bits, add all source code in an appendix. #+INCLUDE solves the inclusion of source code files very nicely - I'm guaranteed that my document includes the latest versions, type set as I wish. Unfortunately at the moment I'm cutting and pasting the snippets of interesting code into the body of the essay. What I'd like to do is be able to label interesting regions of code in the source file and then import the labelled blocks into my essay. Is there a way of doing this? Have a look at Org-Babel. Though, it means your source code would be *inside* your Org document, and you would have to tangle it (generate it) from there. Seb I'm considering investigating the following and would appreciate comments on this idea. The aim is to make it easier to use Org-mode to work pure code files which are *external to Org-mode* (i.e. this proposal lies outside of the current org-babel tangling framework). - Extend Org file links to allow links to a range of lines in a file. The syntax could be [[file:/path/to/file::from::to][linkname]] - These links will bring up a buffer visiting the target file, narrowed to the target region. - The link back in the Org-mode file can be adjusted from the target file, by widening and then narrowing again. (During this procedure the target region would be highlighted.) - Export to HTML and LaTeX will have the ability to include the target regions, fontified according to the appropriate major-mode, similar to how begin_src blocks behave on export. - 'from' and 'to' could be line numbers, or regexps for text search. For programmers, this would allow a sort of org-mode mediated literate programming in projects where it is not feasible/desirable to actually include the source code in the org-mode file. Any comments or suggestions? Dan ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
On 4/26/2010 12:40 PM, Dan Davison wrote: I'm considering investigating the following and would appreciate comments on this idea. The aim is to make it easier to use Org-mode to work pure code files which are *external to Org-mode* (i.e. this proposal lies outside of the current org-babel tangling framework). - Extend Org file links to allow links to a range of lines in a file. The syntax could be [[file:/path/to/file::from::to][linkname]] - These links will bring up a buffer visiting the target file, narrowed to the target region. - The link back in the Org-mode file can be adjusted from the target file, by widening and then narrowing again. (During this procedure the target region would be highlighted.) - Export to HTML and LaTeX will have the ability to include the target regions, fontified according to the appropriate major-mode, similar to how begin_src blocks behave on export. - 'from' and 'to' could be line numbers, or regexps for text search. For programmers, this would allow a sort of org-mode mediated literate programming in projects where it is not feasible/desirable to actually include the source code in the org-mode file. Any comments or suggestions? Dan Dan, The use of line numbers seems a little error prone since line numbers can change dramatically by simply editing the file. If you edit one section of a file, even if you update the line numbers for that section, you will need to search out all the *other* links to sections in that file and update them as well as they will become stale. And, since it will be possible to have multiple org files with links into a single source file, this will be a *very* difficult thing to manage. Your idea about regexps sounds promising, though. You could define 'markers' in comments delimiting the relevant sections of code and org could search these out easily enough. Mark ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Limited #+INCLUDE ?
Mark Elston m_els...@comcast.net writes: On 4/26/2010 12:40 PM, Dan Davison wrote: I'm considering investigating the following and would appreciate comments on this idea. The aim is to make it easier to use Org-mode to work pure code files which are *external to Org-mode* (i.e. this proposal lies outside of the current org-babel tangling framework). - Extend Org file links to allow links to a range of lines in a file. The syntax could be [[file:/path/to/file::from::to][linkname]] - These links will bring up a buffer visiting the target file, narrowed to the target region. - The link back in the Org-mode file can be adjusted from the target file, by widening and then narrowing again. (During this procedure the target region would be highlighted.) - Export to HTML and LaTeX will have the ability to include the target regions, fontified according to the appropriate major-mode, similar to how begin_src blocks behave on export. - 'from' and 'to' could be line numbers, or regexps for text search. For programmers, this would allow a sort of org-mode mediated literate programming in projects where it is not feasible/desirable to actually include the source code in the org-mode file. Any comments or suggestions? Dan Dan, The use of line numbers seems a little error prone since line numbers can change dramatically by simply editing the file. If you edit one section of a file, even if you update the line numbers for that section, you will need to search out all the *other* links to sections in that file and update them as well as they will become stale. And, since it will be possible to have multiple org files with links into a single source file, this will be a *very* difficult thing to manage. Hi Mark, Your idea about regexps sounds promising, though. My current thought is that Emacs bookmarks might be the technology to use here. They seem to be designed for this task (saving a reference to a location in a file which is robust to mild file alteration), they are almost 20 years old, and there is already org-bookmarks.el in contrib by Tokuya Kameshima[1]. (info (emacs) Bookmarks) You could define 'markers' in comments delimiting the relevant sections of code and org could search these out easily enough. My hope was to avoid forcing the target files to receive extra Org-related content. E.g. suppose that the target files are a collaborative project involving non-Org users that is under version control; one wouldn't want to commit those special tags, and one wouldn't particularly want to have to filter them out them when making commits. Dan [1] I haven't looked into this properly, but to avoid staleness one possibility would be to modify Tokuya's links to actually include the lisp form defining the bookmark (i.e. the entry in bookmark-alist) in the non-visible portion of the link (?). My proposed range links would employ two bookmarks. Mark ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
