Re: [accessibility] worg obscures text (Re: [PATCH] ob-sqlite: Use a transient in-memory database by default)
yikes yes re columns. [my fill-column is 60. on a 32 inch. and i cannot even do ediff side by side with that, to my displeasure.] [i hope to find a low-[preferably-1-nit]-minimum-brightness flicker-free monitor someplace, and i /think/ oleds, which /might/ partly satisfy that, can come standardly in 42 inches, which /might/ allow side by side ediff at 60 finally.] On 8/10/23, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 05/08/2023 10:22, Samuel Wales wrote: >> [i.e. agree that the manuals and standard toc at top imo do a good job >> for accessibility.] > > Notice that Org manual is exported through ox-texinfo, not by ox-html > directly. So somebody should confirm that default ox-html table of > contents is suitable for various worg pages: short and long ones. > > Personally I do not like CSS of the manuals (Org and Emacs) because it > allows ~190 characters per line. For regular paragraphs it is > recommended to have lines 60-70 characters long. Code blocks may be wider. > > > > -- The Kafka Pandemic A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy: https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com
Re: [accessibility] worg obscures text (Re: [PATCH] ob-sqlite: Use a transient in-memory database by default)
On 05/08/2023 10:22, Samuel Wales wrote: [i.e. agree that the manuals and standard toc at top imo do a good job for accessibility.] Notice that Org manual is exported through ox-texinfo, not by ox-html directly. So somebody should confirm that default ox-html table of contents is suitable for various worg pages: short and long ones. Personally I do not like CSS of the manuals (Org and Emacs) because it allows ~190 characters per line. For regular paragraphs it is recommended to have lines 60-70 characters long. Code blocks may be wider.
Re: [accessibility] worg obscures text (Re: [PATCH] ob-sqlite: Use a transient in-memory database by default)
[i.e. agree that the manuals and standard toc at top imo do a good job for accessibility.] On 8/4/23, Samuel Wales wrote: > fwiw i agree with the non-fancy toc concept for accessibility. > > On 8/4/23, Max Nikulin wrote: >> On 05/08/2023 05:57, Rudolf Adamkovič wrote: >>> P.S. #2: The Table of Contents (TOC) on the >>> WORG is "jumpy" on Safari. In fact, it has >>> always been problematic for me, in one way or >>> another. Why cannot TOC be included at the >>> beginning of the document, like in standard >>> Org exports? Org and Emacs manuals, with no >>> "smart" side bars, get it right, IMO. >> >> I have found your message in a dedicated thread >> >> Rudolf Adamkovič to emacs-orgmode… Re: [accessibility] worg obscures >> text. Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:35:14 +0200. >> https://list.org.mode.org/m2v8t5y8st@me.com >> >> Somebody should propose a CSS for responsive design for Worg. Perhaps >> with ability to open/close table of contents on mobile devices. >> >> > > > -- > The Kafka Pandemic > > A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy: > https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com > -- The Kafka Pandemic A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy: https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com
Re: [accessibility] worg obscures text (Re: [PATCH] ob-sqlite: Use a transient in-memory database by default)
fwiw i agree with the non-fancy toc concept for accessibility. On 8/4/23, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 05/08/2023 05:57, Rudolf Adamkovič wrote: >> P.S. #2: The Table of Contents (TOC) on the >> WORG is "jumpy" on Safari. In fact, it has >> always been problematic for me, in one way or >> another. Why cannot TOC be included at the >> beginning of the document, like in standard >> Org exports? Org and Emacs manuals, with no >> "smart" side bars, get it right, IMO. > > I have found your message in a dedicated thread > > Rudolf Adamkovič to emacs-orgmode… Re: [accessibility] worg obscures > text. Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:35:14 +0200. > https://list.org.mode.org/m2v8t5y8st@me.com > > Somebody should propose a CSS for responsive design for Worg. Perhaps > with ability to open/close table of contents on mobile devices. > > -- The Kafka Pandemic A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy: https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com
Re: [accessibility] worg obscures text
thank you. classic works best for me. a tiny bit made for smaller fonts [perhaps ragged right or 1 column would work better] but it is completely usable and i would not mention such a nit except for your interest. [as an indicator of right column column width in classic page style, with smallest legible font size during daylight, worg toc currently takes 26 mouse pagescroll clicks to get to end from top. toc at top taking whole page [a 1 column design] and the items flowed but with decent margins would take fewer clicks as that would be a bit more width. larger fonts would make the number of clicks more. just fyi.] [of the other styles, one is white bg so cannot use at night [because i have not found a good darkerner extension that does not require running a binary blob to install it which i stubbornly refuse to do. the one i use, dark reader, does not work on some pages for some reason, and it has other issues re blue on black and too much blue or so]; zenburn is too bright and uncontrasty for me; and one or two are obscuring as mentioned. for my personal use, with my current settings, classic is definitely good enough. also, for some reason i rarely go to worg.] On 6/15/22, Tim Cross wrote: > > Samuel Wales writes: > >> on this page, i cannot read the rhs of paragraphs near the top because >> the menu and up home elements obscure the text. >> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#keeping-local-changes-current-with-Org-mode-development >> . >> >> i use very large fonts. i have latest esr firefox maximized to the >> large monitor. an even larger monitor is not an option. >> >> this is probably a minor issue for me as i can probably use ublock to >> completely remove those elements. of course that would mean not >> having those elements but that is ok if there is a table of contents >> in teh text. i think there is not though. also, o that particular >> patge i can scroll, read paragraph, scroll again. so i am just >> reporting so that the issue is known. i blieve i mentioned it yers >> ago but idk if it got notated. > > Something worth pointing out in case you were not aware of it is that > the worg pages are defined with alternative stylesheets. Unfortunately, > alternative stylesheet support is not well supported by browsers. > However, firefox is one that does support them and as you are a firefox > users, you may be in luck. > > From the 'view' menu, you can select the "Page style" option, which will > let you select from 1 of three provided styles - default, zenburn and > classic. > > In your case, you will likely find the classic style easier to work with > as the fonts can be scaled without some content obscuring other (it > doens't use the Z index to keep things 'on top'). > > Note that I am working on improving the look of worg and all of this > will likely change. However, it turns out it isn't as simple as a few > patches. There is quite a bit of work required to get things 'up to > spec', especially with respect to accessibility and responsiveness for > multiple screen sizes. > > -- The Kafka Pandemic A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy: https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com
Re: [accessibility] worg obscures text
Samuel Wales writes: > on this page, i cannot read the rhs of paragraphs near the top because > the menu and up home elements obscure the text. > https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#keeping-local-changes-current-with-Org-mode-development > . > > i use very large fonts. i have latest esr firefox maximized to the > large monitor. an even larger monitor is not an option. > > this is probably a minor issue for me as i can probably use ublock to > completely remove those elements. of course that would mean not > having those elements but that is ok if there is a table of contents > in teh text. i think there is not though. also, o that particular > patge i can scroll, read paragraph, scroll again. so i am just > reporting so that the issue is known. i blieve i mentioned it yers > ago but idk if it got notated. Something worth pointing out in case you were not aware of it is that the worg pages are defined with alternative stylesheets. Unfortunately, alternative stylesheet support is not well supported by browsers. However, firefox is one that does support them and as you are a firefox users, you may be in luck. >From the 'view' menu, you can select the "Page style" option, which will let you select from 1 of three provided styles - default, zenburn and classic. In your case, you will likely find the classic style easier to work with as the fonts can be scaled without some content obscuring other (it doens't use the Z index to keep things 'on top'). Note that I am working on improving the look of worg and all of this will likely change. However, it turns out it isn't as simple as a few patches. There is quite a bit of work required to get things 'up to spec', especially with respect to accessibility and responsiveness for multiple screen sizes.
Re: [accessibility] worg obscures text
On 13/06/2022 09:16, Tim Cross wrote: If the .emacs.el was either in the repo or the url referenced in the worg-setup.org file worked, that would help. Org web pages are currently generated by SourceHut CI, have a look at .build.yml and publish.sh (the latter is actually elisp). Browser developer tools show the name of CSS file where some rule is defined. I had an idea with "X" labeled button (hidden checkbox for no-JS implementation) that collapses toolbar into hamburger. However I have enough items in my org-related backlog.
Re: [accessibility] worg obscures text
Ihor Radchenko writes: > Tim Cross writes: > >> I agree, that is pretty poor formatting and does not work well and will >> never work well from an accessibility perspective. > > Patches are welcome! We just need someone with knowledge of html/css to > jump in and create a patch for https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg (BTW, also > see shiny new https://sr.ht/~bzg/org/). > Sadly, it isn't that simple. You also have to understand how worg does the publishing and that isn't easy. I just looked at the repository - The .emacs.el file referenced in the worg-setup.org is not available (404 error) - The styles directory consists of a number of css files - not clear which one is used. (I'm guessing the .emacs.el file might tell me such details). - You also need to know about org publish and how it works, not just be familiar wiht html and css. As it stands now, without the .emacs.el file (which I'm assuming contains the org-publish-project-alist variable), you cannot do much or work out how the styles are generated/applied, so you cannot fix this. If the .emacs.el was either in the repo or the url referenced in the worg-setup.org file worked, that would help.
Re: [accessibility] worg obscures text
Tim Cross writes: > I agree, that is pretty poor formatting and does not work well and will > never work well from an accessibility perspective. Patches are welcome! We just need someone with knowledge of html/css to jump in and create a patch for https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg (BTW, also see shiny new https://sr.ht/~bzg/org/). Best, Ihor
Re: [accessibility] worg obscures text
Samuel Wales writes: > on this page, i cannot read the rhs of paragraphs near the top because > the menu and up home elements obscure the text. > https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#keeping-local-changes-current-with-Org-mode-development > . > > i use very large fonts. i have latest esr firefox maximized to the > large monitor. an even larger monitor is not an option. > > this is probably a minor issue for me as i can probably use ublock to > completely remove those elements. of course that would mean not > having those elements but that is ok if there is a table of contents > in teh text. i think there is not though. also, o that particular > patge i can scroll, read paragraph, scroll again. so i am just > reporting so that the issue is known. i blieve i mentioned it yers > ago but idk if it got notated. I agree, that is pretty poor formatting and does not work well and will never work well from an accessibility perspective.
Re: [accessibility] worg obscures text
Samuel Wales writes: > so i am just reporting so that the issue is known. i blieve i > mentioned it yers ago but idk if it got notated. A big +1 from me. I struggle with this problem too. The website obscures its main content with the floating side-buttons, namely - "Support via Liberapay", - "UP", - "HOME", and - "Table of Contents". I think, no chrome should ever cover the main text, no matter what font size or screen size the user has to use. The Emacs manual does the right thing, for example. Rudy -- "Mathematics takes us still further from what is human into the region of absolute necessity, to which not only the actual world, but every possible world, must conform." -- Bertrand Russell, 1902 Rudolf Adamkovič [he/him] Studenohorská 25 84103 Bratislava Slovakia
