Re: org exported pdf files

[Max Nikulin]

On 29/09/2022 00:08, Tim Cross wrote:


2. Technically, Org mode cannot be used in any organisation (specifically 
government
funded) where ther are policies which require that documents be
accessible. For example, technically, this means we cannot use org mode
in Australian government organisations, which would also include
Universities. I suspect other countries have similar accessibility
requriements, especially in government and government funded
organisations).


Can someone having experience with assistive technologies comment if 
output generated by ox-html prevents generation of accessible PDF by 
Chrome? Are serious rework is required to improve HTML export? Let's 
leave math expressions aside for a while.


https://blog.chromium.org/2020/07/using-chrome-to-generate-more.html
Dominic Mazzoni. Using Chrome to generate more accessible PDFs
Wednesday, July 29, 2020

More tools promise PDF/UA generation from HTML, e.g.
https://github.com/Kozea/WeasyPrint/issues/1088
liZe commented Sep 16, 2022


Version 57 will include PDF/UA support that includes accessibility
tags automatically added out of the HTML structure of the document. If
anyone is interested in this feature, don’t hesitate to test the current
master branch and add a comment here!


Certainly there is enough room for improvements of ox-html and there 
were discussions of "slim" HTML ox backend. Such work may include 
suggestions from people familiar with ARIA and related web technologies.

Re: org exported pdf files

[Tim Cross]

Max Nikulin  writes:

> On 29/09/2022 00:08, Tim Cross wrote:
>> 1. Org mode cannot be used to create accessible PDF documents as long as
>> it depends on the latex environment to generate those documents.
>
> Are there free tools that can generate accessible PDF documents? Perhaps, 
> when it is
> mandatory requirement, export through HTML or through ODT may be a workaround 
> till
> reasonable support will be implemented in LaTeX. I have no idea concerning 
> quality of PDF
> documents generated by e.g. browsers.
>

There are tools which are free in the sense of free beer, but no tools
I'm aware of which are free in the sense of freedom. The company which
has probably done the most to make PDF files accessible is Adobe and
they do provide a lot of good documentation and some pretty reasonable
tools which can help with diagnosis etc. Unfortunately, their position
wrt software liberty is poor. 

> Are there free tools that allows to inspect PDF files structure similar to 
> DOM inspector
> from browser development tools? Otherwise it is inconvenient to check effects 
> of code
> modification or to compare result with sample files formatted accordingly to 
> guidelines.

Similar to above, but none which are free in the libre sense that I'm
aware of.

Re: org exported pdf files

[Tim Cross]

Juan Manuel Macías  writes:

> Hi, Tim
>
> Tim Cross writes:
>
>> An unfortunate situation really - especially given Emacs has one of the
>> most powerful and advanced accessibility options available via
>> emacspeak.
>>
>> I also won't hold my breath for a new latgex core. THe latex3 initiative
>> seems to have failed or at least appears to be slower to be realised than 
>> perl6! 
>
> You may find this article by Frank Mittelbach from 2020 interesting,
> about the future of LaTeX and the challenges to be solved, including the
> accessibility issues:
>
> https://www.latex-project.org/publications/2020-FMi-TUB-tb128mitt-quovadis.pdf
>
> On the other hand, there is also ConTeXt. I don't know much about
> ConTeXt, but I remember reading somewhere that ConTeXt is more mature
> than LaTeX on PDF tagging and accessibility issues. I don't know if
> there are any ConTeXt experts on the list who can confirm this... In any
> case, an ox-context already exists for org, written by Jason Ross.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Juan Manuel 
>
> -- 

Thanks Juan, that is a useful link. 

Re: org exported pdf files

[Max Nikulin]

On 29/09/2022 00:08, Tim Cross wrote:


1. Org mode cannot be used to create accessible PDF documents as long as
it depends on the latex environment to generate those documents.


Are there free tools that can generate accessible PDF documents? 
Perhaps, when it is mandatory requirement, export through HTML or 
through ODT may be a workaround till reasonable support will be 
implemented in LaTeX. I have no idea concerning quality of PDF documents 
generated by e.g. browsers.


Are there free tools that allows to inspect PDF files structure similar 
to DOM inspector from browser development tools? Otherwise it is 
inconvenient to check effects of code modification or to compare result 
with sample files formatted accordingly to guidelines.

Re: org exported pdf files

[Juan Manuel Macías]

Hi, Tim

Tim Cross writes:

> An unfortunate situation really - especially given Emacs has one of the
> most powerful and advanced accessibility options available via
> emacspeak.
>
> I also won't hold my breath for a new latgex core. THe latex3 initiative
> seems to have failed or at least appears to be slower to be realised than 
> perl6! 

You may find this article by Frank Mittelbach from 2020 interesting,
about the future of LaTeX and the challenges to be solved, including the
accessibility issues:

https://www.latex-project.org/publications/2020-FMi-TUB-tb128mitt-quovadis.pdf

On the other hand, there is also ConTeXt. I don't know much about
ConTeXt, but I remember reading somewhere that ConTeXt is more mature
than LaTeX on PDF tagging and accessibility issues. I don't know if
there are any ConTeXt experts on the list who can confirm this... In any
case, an ox-context already exists for org, written by Jason Ross.

Best regards,

Juan Manuel 

-- 
--
--
Juan Manuel Macías 

https://juanmanuelmacias.com

https://lunotipia.juanmanuelmacias.com

https://gnutas.juanmanuelmacias.com

Re: org exported pdf files

[Timothy]

Hi Tim,

> None of what yuo wrote is a surprise. Unfortunately, it does mean two
> things
>
> 1. Org mode cannot be used to create accessible PDF documents as long as
> it depends on the latex environment to generate those documents.

It means that Org mode cannot /currently/ be used…

I have hope that in 1-2y this will change.

> 2. Technically, Org mode cannot be used in any organisation (specifically 
> government

Can’t comment on this.

> I don’t know if other document processors, like perhaps pandoc, can
> create PDF files which contain the tagging and other structural
> metadatra necessary to make PDFs accessible.

Pandoc’s PDFs via LaTeX will have exactly the same problem.

> Note that org also lacks any accessibility support for HTML generated
> documents as well. However, this is less problematic as authors do have
> some ability to add the necessary attributes that can improve
> accessibility - an option not available with Latex.

HTML has more inherent structure, so this situation is already much better.

> An unfortunate situation really - especially given Emacs has one of the
> most powerful and advanced accessibility options available via
> emacspeak.

Well, Emacs is a bit divorced from this problem.

> I also won’t hold my breath for a new latgex core. THe latex3 initiative
> seems to have failed or at least appears to be slower to be realised than 
> perl6!

Hmm? LaTeX3 switched gear, and arguably is working nicely. I expect you’re
currently using quite a few bits of LaTeX3, even if you don’t know it.

The accessibility effort was started ~2y ago, seems to be making progress
(stalled a bit with covid), and is funded with a roadmap. I see good reason to
think the current situation will change.

All the best,
Timothy

Re: org exported pdf files

[Tim Cross]

Timothy  writes:

> Hi Tim,
>
>> It would probably be good to add the two above packages as part of the
>> ’default’ package preamble, but this would require considerable testing
>> as it isn’t known if there will be adverse effects when mixed with other
>> packages.
>
> Those packages are early accessibility experiments, and are /not/ intended for
> wider use. See the top of the 
> README: “Prototype. Not suitable for production”.  The author themselves said 
> in
> a [2020 tex.SE answer] that:
>
>   `accessibility' was developed and published back in 2007 as a proof of 
> concept for
>   some of the KOMA document styles. I got hold of the files from the 
> author in
>   2019 and took over maintenance with her permission. I tidied up the 
> package
>   enough to get it to CTAN, but didn’t update the functionality. I also 
> published
>   it to GitHub to get some feedback on it.
>
>   It seems to have worked well in 2007 for a few test cases. 
> Unfortunately it now
>   fails every test case, and it looks like needing some serious efforts 
> to fix.
>
>   Because of this I no longer think that accessibility is fit for purpose.
>
> They also go on to make a comment I’ve seen a few times from the people 
> working
> on the latex3 accessibility project — basically that in order to actually get
> a /good/ solution, we’ll need to wait till support is baked into the LaTeX 
> core.
>
> If we’re desperate to add this, we’ll likely want to look at `tagpdf' which is
> written by someone working on the latex3 accessibility project. It is 
> apparently
> capable of passing PCA3, however according to the author:
>
>   `tagpdf' hasn’t been written as a user package but to allow experiments 
> and tests
>   and to help to identify missing interfaces in the kernel and in 
> packages. It can
>   change at any time in incompatible ways and it requires some skills to 
> use it.
>
> So, while it may be a particularly boring answer, I think “wait and see” is 
> our
> current best bet.
>
> All the best,
> Timothy
>
>
> [2020 tex.SE answer] 

None of what yuo wrote is a surprise. Unfortunately, it does mean two
things

1. Org mode cannot be used to create accessible PDF documents as long as
it depends on the latex environment to generate those documents. 

2. Technically, Org mode cannot be used in any organisation (specifically 
government
funded) where ther are policies which require that documents be
accessible. For example, technically, this means we cannot use org mode
in Australian government organisations, which would also include
Universities. I suspect other countries have similar accessibility
requriements, especially in government and government funded
organisations). 

I say technically because despite such policies, the level of
accessibility in many work and educational environments is very poor. In
Australia, few government departments have reached the accessibility
levels specified in policies which are now nearly 20 years old. The
private sector is even worse. While I have seen improvements in the last
40 years, I have yet to work in an environment where just a majority of
the systems I need to access in order to do my job effectively meet
minimal accessibility standards. 

I don't know if other document processors, like perhaps pandoc, can
create PDF files which contain the tagging and other structural
metadatra necessary to make PDFs accessible.

Note that org also lacks any accessibility support for HTML generated
documents as well. However, this is less problematic as authors do have
some ability to add the necessary attributes that can improve
accessibility - an option not available with Latex.

An unfortunate situation really - especially given Emacs has one of the
most powerful and advanced accessibility options available via
emacspeak.

I also won't hold my breath for a new latgex core. THe latex3 initiative
seems to have failed or at least appears to be slower to be realised than 
perl6! 

Re: org exported pdf files

[Max Nikulin]

On 28/09/2022 10:07, Ihor Radchenko wrote:

Max Nikulin writes:


- What TeX engine do you use? E.g. for PdfLaTeX it may be necessary to
add \usepackage{cmap} immediately after \documentclass. Unicode engines
like LuaTeX likely do not require such trick.


I am wondering if having cmap should be a good default in general.
Not just for accessibility.


For me it must have, but I am a rare person on this mail list who is 
happy with the Computer Modern font (actually cm-super Type 1 font). I 
have never tried .ttf fonts with PdfLaTeX and I am unaware of effect of 
\usepackage{cmap} in that case.

Re: org exported pdf files

[Max Nikulin]

On 28/09/2022 13:48, Jude DaShiell wrote:

I don't make pdf files or make pdf files available for
anyone else.


Then what is the origin of "these" PDF files you mentioned in your first 
post?


If you actually use pdftotext, I am unsure concerning effect of setting 
language for you.


> Adobe has plenty of pdf accessibility guidelines available for those
> interested in accessibility to implement.

In general my experience is that plenty of guidelines actually means 
that most of them are already obsolete or describe intentions that have 
never been implemented. So someone should provide more precise technical 
details and links to documents describing currently used techniques. 
Just links provided by a search engine may be hardly relevant to real 
experience of users of assistive technologies.

Re: org exported pdf files

[Jude DaShiell]

I've never done anything with latex.  The closest I got to latex was using
groff for a little bit of time a long time ago.  On this one I'm in way
over my head without scuba gear.  Apparently html and adobe left latex in
the dust in so far as accessibility is concerned.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022, Tim Cross wrote:

>
> Jude DaShiell  writes:
>
> > It was one of the messages from this list that got me that reply.  For
> > now, when I get a pdf file I try extracting it with pdftotext and read the
> > extracted text.  I don't make pdf files or make pdf files available for
> > anyone else.  How adobe accessibility recommendations for pdf files will
> > translate to Linux I don't know many were geared toward windows if memory
> > serves.  I haven't used windows since 2013 and don't intend using windows
> > for the duration either.
> >
>
> The problem is not with org mode, but rather with the limitations of
> Latex. The basic problem is that latex pre-dates accessibility concerns
> and lacks full support for tagging, alt text and other document
> structure information necessary to make PDF files accessible. Adding a
> language environment setting will have only minimal benefit. It is the
> tagging and other structural information which is necessary to make
> things really accessible i.e. the ability to browse a PDF document and
> retain the structural relationships within the document and use that
> information in a meaningful way - consider for example, browsing data
> inside a table within a PDF document.
>
> There are accessibility working groups within the tex/latex community
> who have been working on trying to improve accessibility of documents
> created using latex and some progress has been made. However, it is
> nowhere near the same level of sophistication as supported by other PDF
> generators, like adobe's suite, which has very good accessibility
> support and can enable production of some of the best accessible
> documents I've used.
>
> There are a couple of additional latex packages which can be added to
> documents which will provide some tagging and other structural
> information which will significantly improve the accessibility of PDF
> documents. I've not tested these with different engines.
>
> https://ctan.org/pkg/accessibility?lang=en
>
> and you would want ot add
>
> \usepackage[tagged, highstructure]{accessibility}
>
> to your packages list.
>
> To add accessibility for math formulas etc, you need
>
> https://ctan.org/pkg/axessibility?lang=en
>
> and add
>
> \usepackage{axessibility}
>
> As with other authoring, you also need to consider accessibility
> requirements when creating your documents and do things like adding \alt
> textg for figures etc.
>
> It would probably be good to add the two above packages as part of the
> 'default' package preamble, but this would require considerable testing
> as it isn't known if there will be adverse effects when mixed with other
> packages.
>
>
>

Re: org exported pdf files

[Tim Cross]

Jude DaShiell  writes:

> It was one of the messages from this list that got me that reply.  For
> now, when I get a pdf file I try extracting it with pdftotext and read the
> extracted text.  I don't make pdf files or make pdf files available for
> anyone else.  How adobe accessibility recommendations for pdf files will
> translate to Linux I don't know many were geared toward windows if memory
> serves.  I haven't used windows since 2013 and don't intend using windows
> for the duration either.
>

The problem is not with org mode, but rather with the limitations of
Latex. The basic problem is that latex pre-dates accessibility concerns
and lacks full support for tagging, alt text and other document
structure information necessary to make PDF files accessible. Adding a
language environment setting will have only minimal benefit. It is the
tagging and other structural information which is necessary to make
things really accessible i.e. the ability to browse a PDF document and
retain the structural relationships within the document and use that
information in a meaningful way - consider for example, browsing data
inside a table within a PDF document.

There are accessibility working groups within the tex/latex community
who have been working on trying to improve accessibility of documents
created using latex and some progress has been made. However, it is
nowhere near the same level of sophistication as supported by other PDF
generators, like adobe's suite, which has very good accessibility
support and can enable production of some of the best accessible
documents I've used.

There are a couple of additional latex packages which can be added to
documents which will provide some tagging and other structural
information which will significantly improve the accessibility of PDF
documents. I've not tested these with different engines.

https://ctan.org/pkg/accessibility?lang=en

and you would want ot add

\usepackage[tagged, highstructure]{accessibility}

to your packages list.

To add accessibility for math formulas etc, you need

https://ctan.org/pkg/axessibility?lang=en

and add

\usepackage{axessibility}

As with other authoring, you also need to consider accessibility
requirements when creating your documents and do things like adding \alt
textg for figures etc.

It would probably be good to add the two above packages as part of the
'default' package preamble, but this would require considerable testing
as it isn't known if there will be adverse effects when mixed with other
packages.

Re: org exported pdf files

[Timothy]

Hi Tim,

> It would probably be good to add the two above packages as part of the
> ’default’ package preamble, but this would require considerable testing
> as it isn’t known if there will be adverse effects when mixed with other
> packages.

Those packages are early accessibility experiments, and are /not/ intended for
wider use. See the top of the 
README: “Prototype. Not suitable for production”.  The author themselves said in
a [2020 tex.SE answer] that:

  `accessibility' was developed and published back in 2007 as a proof of 
concept for
  some of the KOMA document styles. I got hold of the files from the author 
in
  2019 and took over maintenance with her permission. I tidied up the 
package
  enough to get it to CTAN, but didn’t update the functionality. I also 
published
  it to GitHub to get some feedback on it.

  It seems to have worked well in 2007 for a few test cases. Unfortunately 
it now
  fails every test case, and it looks like needing some serious efforts to 
fix.

  Because of this I no longer think that accessibility is fit for purpose.

They also go on to make a comment I’ve seen a few times from the people working
on the latex3 accessibility project — basically that in order to actually get
a /good/ solution, we’ll need to wait till support is baked into the LaTeX core.

If we’re desperate to add this, we’ll likely want to look at `tagpdf' which is
written by someone working on the latex3 accessibility project. It is apparently
capable of passing PCA3, however according to the author:

  `tagpdf' hasn’t been written as a user package but to allow experiments 
and tests
  and to help to identify missing interfaces in the kernel and in packages. 
It can
  change at any time in incompatible ways and it requires some skills to 
use it.

So, while it may be a particularly boring answer, I think “wait and see” is our
current best bet.

All the best,
Timothy


[2020 tex.SE answer] 

Re: org exported pdf files

[Jude DaShiell]

It was one of the messages from this list that got me that reply.  For
now, when I get a pdf file I try extracting it with pdftotext and read the
extracted text.  I don't make pdf files or make pdf files available for
anyone else.  How adobe accessibility recommendations for pdf files will
translate to Linux I don't know many were geared toward windows if memory
serves.  I haven't used windows since 2013 and don't intend using windows
for the duration either.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022, Timothy wrote:

> Hi Jude,
>
> > I have done nothing with exporting to pdf from orgmode since several years
> > ago I was told orgmode pdf?s were not accessible.
>
> Do you know where this information came from? And what do you use now?
>
> All the best,
> Timothy
>

Re: org exported pdf files

[Timothy]

Hi Jude,

> I have done nothing with exporting to pdf from orgmode since several years
> ago I was told orgmode pdf’s were not accessible.

Do you know where this information came from? And what do you use now?

All the best,
Timothy

Re: org exported pdf files

[Jude DaShiell]

I checked that out and putting the example text into my .emacs file
generates a warning when emacs starts up  I put the parens and everything
between the parens in the .emacs file and that caused the warning to be
thrown.
What may work and circumvent all of this would be to add:
#+LANGUAGE: en
into a text source file which is part of the files exported through
orgmode pdf.
Adobe has plenty of pdf accessibility guidelines available for those
interested in accessibility to implement.
if those #+ items are called orgmode-directives maybe an
orgmode-accessibility directive could be used at minimum to put the
system's default org-export-language directive into that source text file
that goes into the pdf file.
I have done nothing with exporting to pdf from orgmode since several years
ago I was told orgmode pdf's were not accessible.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022, Ihor Radchenko wrote:

> Jude DaShiell  writes:
>
> > Having examined 13.10.2, with the polyglossia package installed and
> > accessible to orgmode putting set-language into the right place would
> > default to English and other languages would need to specify their
> > language for a pdf export.
>
> The default can be changed in your Emacs configuration. Check out
> org-export-default-language.
>
> > On Linux I have espeak-ng running as default
> > and I run orca as necessary.  I mostly live on the command line so orca is
> > used rarely.
> > I think a reasonable test of export quality will be to make a pdf with
> > orgmode then run that pdf through pdftotext and compare the extracted text
> > with the pdf file.  I can't do that since without use of pdftotext the
> > screen readers will not work on pdf files.
>
> I checked on of my exported PDFs, and it looks mostly consistent with the
> org source from a brief look. The only minor deficiency is sparkled text
> from included vector images with text, but I imagine that it is common
> and may or may not be a real deficiency.
>
> Do note that Org to PDF export works by first exporting to a .tex file
> and then running TeX. As long as TeX makes a decent job with PDF
> accessibility, we should be good to go. Just need to make sure that we
> pass the correct options to TeX in the generated .tex file.
>
> You mentioned that one of the TeX options is setting the correct
> metadata. I am not aware about other required options that can improve
> accessibility. If you know any, feel free to share.
>
> Also, you can refer to our previous discussion about accessibility of
> documents exported by Org.
> https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87czew3w5l.fsf@localhost/
>
>

Re: org exported pdf files

[Ihor Radchenko]

Max Nikulin  writes:

> - What TeX engine do you use? E.g. for PdfLaTeX it may be necessary to 
> add \usepackage{cmap} immediately after \documentclass. Unicode engines 
> like LuaTeX likely do not require such trick.

I am wondering if having cmap should be a good default in general.
Not just for accessibility.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org/.
Support Org development at https://liberapay.com/org-mode,
or support my work at https://liberapay.com/yantar92

Re: org exported pdf files

[Max Nikulin]

On 27/09/2022 11:31, Jude DaShiell wrote:

Having examined 13.10.2, with the polyglossia package installed and
accessible to orgmode putting set-language into the right place would
default to English and other languages would need to specify their
language for a pdf export.  On Linux I have espeak-ng running as default
and I run orca as necessary.  I mostly live on the command line so orca is
used rarely.
I think a reasonable test of export quality will be to make a pdf with
orgmode then run that pdf through pdftotext and compare the extracted text
with the pdf file.  I can't do that since without use of pdftotext the
screen readers will not work on pdf files.


At first I expected that you may use some proprietary screenreader 
software, e.g. some plugin to Adobe Reader.


Could you, please, provide a tiny example of your Org file with just a 
couple of lines of text and with settings relevant to export? It would 
be helpful to get an example of minimal LaTeX file that allows to 
generate a PDF file that has metadata that you expect to get and the PDF 
file or at least output of pdfinfo, pdffonts.


There are still enough of uncertainties:
- What TeX engine do you use? E.g. for PdfLaTeX it may be necessary to 
add \usepackage{cmap} immediately after \documentclass. Unicode engines 
like LuaTeX likely do not require such trick.
- Is there a reason why you are using polyglossia? Juan Manuel on this 
list says that (if I have got it right) babel is superior nowadays.
- There may be some LaTeX-related specifics for particular language 
after all.

Re: org exported pdf files

[Ihor Radchenko]

Jude DaShiell  writes:

> Having examined 13.10.2, with the polyglossia package installed and
> accessible to orgmode putting set-language into the right place would
> default to English and other languages would need to specify their
> language for a pdf export.

The default can be changed in your Emacs configuration. Check out
org-export-default-language.

> On Linux I have espeak-ng running as default
> and I run orca as necessary.  I mostly live on the command line so orca is
> used rarely.
> I think a reasonable test of export quality will be to make a pdf with
> orgmode then run that pdf through pdftotext and compare the extracted text
> with the pdf file.  I can't do that since without use of pdftotext the
> screen readers will not work on pdf files.

I checked on of my exported PDFs, and it looks mostly consistent with the
org source from a brief look. The only minor deficiency is sparkled text
from included vector images with text, but I imagine that it is common
and may or may not be a real deficiency.

Do note that Org to PDF export works by first exporting to a .tex file
and then running TeX. As long as TeX makes a decent job with PDF
accessibility, we should be good to go. Just need to make sure that we
pass the correct options to TeX in the generated .tex file.

You mentioned that one of the TeX options is setting the correct
metadata. I am not aware about other required options that can improve
accessibility. If you know any, feel free to share.

Also, you can refer to our previous discussion about accessibility of
documents exported by Org.
https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87czew3w5l.fsf@localhost/

-- 
Ihor Radchenko,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org/.
Support Org development at https://liberapay.com/org-mode,
or support my work at https://liberapay.com/yantar92

Re: org exported pdf files

[Jude DaShiell]

Having examined 13.10.2, with the polyglossia package installed and
accessible to orgmode putting set-language into the right place would
default to English and other languages would need to specify their
language for a pdf export.  On Linux I have espeak-ng running as default
and I run orca as necessary.  I mostly live on the command line so orca is
used rarely.
I think a reasonable test of export quality will be to make a pdf with
orgmode then run that pdf through pdftotext and compare the extracted text
with the pdf file.  I can't do that since without use of pdftotext the
screen readers will not work on pdf files.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022, Ihor Radchenko wrote:

> Jude DaShiell  writes:
>
> >> Have you tried Org-exported pdfs on screen-reader?
> >> (I haven't, so I am curious to see if there are any improvements we can
> >> make in this area).
> >>
> > Not yet, but that will be on my list.  Is that latex template
> > automatically used by orgmode when doing a pdf export or is code needed
> > in some file to pull it in?
>
> Yes, the template is used by default. You can also control what is
> filled in there in export settings (see 13.10.2 LaTeX specific export 
> settings)
>
> And, of course, you can override/extend it if necessary.
>
>

Re: org exported pdf files

[Ihor Radchenko]

Jude DaShiell  writes:

>> Have you tried Org-exported pdfs on screen-reader?
>> (I haven't, so I am curious to see if there are any improvements we can
>> make in this area).
>>
> Not yet, but that will be on my list.  Is that latex template
> automatically used by orgmode when doing a pdf export or is code needed
> in some file to pull it in?

Yes, the template is used by default. You can also control what is
filled in there in export settings (see 13.10.2 LaTeX specific export settings)

And, of course, you can override/extend it if necessary.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org/.
Support Org development at https://liberapay.com/org-mode,
or support my work at https://liberapay.com/yantar92

Re: org exported pdf files

[Jude DaShiell]

Jude 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022, Ihor Radchenko wrote:

> Jude DaShiell  writes:
>
> > can these files include the language attribute like what happens in
> > microsoft word?
>
> AFAIK, yes. See org-latex-hyperref-template
>
> > If yes, and the contents are text that would go a long
> > way to making those pdf files screen-reader accessible.
>
> Have you tried Org-exported pdfs on screen-reader?
> (I haven't, so I am curious to see if there are any improvements we can
> make in this area).
>
Not yet, but that will be on my list.  Is that latex template
automatically used by orgmode when doing a pdf export or is code needed
in some file to pull it in?
>

Re: org exported pdf files

[Ihor Radchenko]

Jude DaShiell  writes:

> can these files include the language attribute like what happens in
> microsoft word?

AFAIK, yes. See org-latex-hyperref-template

> If yes, and the contents are text that would go a long
> way to making those pdf files screen-reader accessible.

Have you tried Org-exported pdfs on screen-reader?
(I haven't, so I am curious to see if there are any improvements we can
make in this area).

-- 
Ihor Radchenko,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org/.
Support Org development at https://liberapay.com/org-mode,
or support my work at https://liberapay.com/yantar92