Re: EN60950 - conduit entry dimensions

[Rich Nute]

Hi Jim:


>   Aren't there any permanently connected ITE equipment mfr's on this
>   forum?!  What do you provide in the way of knockouts or ...???

I don't have any first-hand experience... but...

On good authority, a major mainframe manufacturer
uses cord-and-plug connection for EVERYTHING!  The
plug is one from the IEC 309 series of industrial
plugs.  No permanent connections.

Why not use an IEC 309 plug and appropriate cord?
(I believe these plugs and sockets are readily 
available from USA industrial plug manufacturers.)


Best regards,
Rich




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RE: EN60950 - conduit entry dimensions

[Jim Eichner]

I have received very little response to this one, so I thought I'd post
it again.

Aren't there any permanently connected ITE equipment mfr's on this
forum?!  What do you provide in the way of knockouts or ...???

Thanks,


Jim Eichner
> Senior Regulatory Compliance Engineer
Statpower Technologies Corporation
jeich...@statpower.com
http://www.statpower.com
Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really
exists.  Honest.


> -Original Message-
> From: Jim Eichner [SMTP:jeich...@statpower.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 10:49 AM
> To:   'EMC-PSTC - forum'
> Subject:  EN60950 - conduit entry dimensions
> 
> 
> Greetings all:  In clause 3.2.2 allows the provision of knockouts,
> cable
> entries, etc. in lieu of a non-detachable power cord for permanently
> connected equipment.  In Table 10, it lists the overall diameter of
> conduit based on the number of conductors involved, up to 16A.  
> 
> In my particular application, there are 2 wires plus earth, and the
> current (and the branch circuit protection) is less than 16A, so the
> table tells me I need a knockout that can accommodate a 16.0mm O.D.
> conduit.  If things are done there anything like they are done here,
> this 16mm conduit will be secured in a fitting of some sort, and the
> knockout needs to be matched to the fitting, not the conduit (i.e. a
> 16mm hole is likely too small).  
> 
> Is there a reference, or can anyone tell me, what the appropriate
> sized
> hole will be?  Is this standardized somewhere?  
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help,
> 
> 
> Jim Eichner
> > Senior Regulatory Compliance Engineer
> Statpower Technologies Corporation
> jeich...@statpower.com
> http://www.statpower.com
> Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really
> exists.  Honest.
>   
> 
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RE: NEBS Levels..

[Gary McInturff]

Mixing apples and oranges here. The original question, see below, was about
SR3580 Criteria levels. This has nothing do with test levels. It does appear
to address what tests are required but, it more addresses a risk level. If
you are selling these folks a typewriter, SR3580 just classifies it as a
non-system critical component, and if it breaks, because of an earthquake so
what.  We'll get a new one, nobody hurt, and the bosses memo about company
dress codes can come out tomorrow. Nobody needs a $50,000 typewriter, when a
$100 typewriter is just as good. The cost difference being reflected by the
cost passed on to the RBOC by the vendor to recover the more stringent and
unnecessary test sequence.
In the case of level 1 I don't think and earthquake test is even called out,
could be wrong but don't have my hands on the SR3580 standard right now, and
it really a moot point at this point.
But as soon as this level steps up to say level 3 criteria, such as a
digital switch, then not only does the earthquake test come into play but so
do the Zones and performance levels you are referring to come into play.
Why? Because the risk of failure is huge, it isn't just a memo that's
delayed it's the whole East Coast that went down.
And I think that is what Bob is addressing, and once to that point of test
levels and zones I agree with him.

Finally, I haven't the faintest idea whether the operations managers will
accept the risk level 1 even when it is appropriate from the standards. They
pretty much do what they want to do, they are the customers. But if you
can't find somebody to sell you a typewriter for $100, because you required
$50,000 worth of needless testing, you may have to scale down your demands.
Gary

 
-Original Message-
From:   b...@attcanda.net [mailto:b...@attcanada.net]
Sent:   Tuesday, October 05, 1999 9:45 PM
To: Gary McInturff
Cc: 'Grant, Tania (Tania)'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org'; 'Price,
Ed'
Subject:Re: NEBS Levels..

This question comes up again and again.  Not necessarily in
this forum, but from
Sales Engineers all over the world.  Please, Please keep in
mind that these
levels ARE NOT endorsed by any North American Telcos that I
know of (please
prove me wrong).  Each Telco seems to have their own set of
levels which are
conveniently labeled one to three.  There is no correlation
that I know of.
SR3580, Level 2, Zone 2 earthquake is not an acceptable
level to the west
coast.  Please keep this in mind and if anyone knows of a
North American Telco,
whose operations managers will sign up to these levels as
defined by SR3580,
please let me know.

Thanks,

Bob

Gary McInturff wrote:

> >From NEBS SR3580
> Level 1 Minimum acceptable required to preclude hazards
and degradation.
> Possible applications for Level 1 criteria prototype for
trial , limited
> deployment in non-vital services and competitive access
provider collocated
> equipment.
> Level 2 Minimum level need to provide limited assurance of
equipment
> operability within network. Possible deployement in highly
controlled
> environments such as data centers and widespread or
long-term of equipment
> performing non-critical network service, where loss of
equipment operation
> under environment extremes can be tolerated.
> Level 3 The minimum level of environmental compatibility
needed to provide
> maximum assurance of equipment operability. The level 3
criteria provide
> highest assurance of product operability. Possible
applications include
> critical network equipment such as digital switches,
transport products and
> power systems.
> There is a summary tables and other information
that go along with
> this quick blurb, but indeed, you'll have to purchase that
specification.
> This is just intended to get you started, if you don't
already have this
> information.
> Gary


SNIP>
> Bellcore standard:   SR-3580, Network
Equipment - Building
> Systems (NEBS)
*   Criteria Levels.

SNIP
>


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FW: Temperature probe

[Knighten, Jim L]

Leslie,

See below the recommendation of our thermal engineer.

Jim Knighten

Dr. Jim Knightene-mail: jim.knigh...@sandiegoca.ncr.com
  
Senior Consulting Engineer
NCR
17095 Via del Campo
San Diego, CA 92127 http://www.ncr.com   
Tel: 858-485-2537
Fax: 858-485-3788

* Notice the Area Code change from 619 *


-Original Message-
From:   Wang, David 
Sent:   Wednesday, October 06, 1999 2:23 PM
To: Knighten, Jim L; leslie_...@yahoo.com  
Subject:RE: Temperature probe

A T-Type thermocouple will do the job. Check http://www.omega.com/
  for product information.
David

-Original Message-
From:   Knighten, Jim L 
Sent:   Wednesday, October 06, 1999 2:13 PM
To: Wang, David
Subject:FW: Temperature probe

David,

You have any suggestions for this guy?

Jim

Dr. Jim Knightene-mail:
jim.knigh...@sandiegoca.ncr.com   
Senior Consulting Engineer
NCR
17095 Via del Campo
San Diego, CA 92127 http://www.ncr.com
  
Tel: 858-485-2537
Fax: 858-485-3788

* Notice the Area Code change from 619 *


-Original Message-
From:   Leslie Bai [mailto:leslie_...@yahoo.com]


>
Sent:   Wednesday, October 06, 1999 11:29 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org  
Subject:Temperature probe


Hello, group:
Seems that my question is not relavent to this group but hope
someone there could help.
I am looking for an ACCURATE temperature probe ( accuracy is about
+/- 1 degree C from -50 to +80 degree C). It will be used to measure the
microwave frequency drifting over the temperature. It will be put in a
temperature chamber. Although the chamber has a temeprature display, it's
not accurate as we expected (about +/-3 degree C), thus we need a more
accurate probe to perform the  measurement.
If you have any info or similiar probe, pls kindly let me know - the
brand, model, etc...
Thanks in advance.
Leslie
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/991006/ca_digit_m_1.html
 

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RE: NEBS Levels..

[bma]

Jim,

I cannot help admiring you to have found an article published almost one year 
ago, which just mentioned a few words about NEBS Levels. 
Please allow me to cite relative paragraphs from the article you recommended, 
and then ask some questions.

= Citation 
Even after CLECs have a functional cage, the ILECs still hammer at them. They 
argue about equipment, device by device. According to Northpoint, "Both CLECs 
and ILECs have a strong and shared interest in ensuring that all equipment 
placed in their central offices meets industry safety standards, such as NEBS 
Level 1. Bell Atlantic, however, is requiring CLECs to meet far more 
stringent NEBS Level 2 and 3 standards.
 
"This is entirely inappropriate since these standards deal almost exclusively 
with equipment reliability, not equipment safety. ILECs have no legitimate 
reason in requiring that CLEC equipment meet specific reliability standards; 
such concerns are properly left to the mutual agreement of the CLECs, their 
customers and their equipment providers. By requiring certification to NEBS 
Levels 2 and 3, the ILECs condemn CLECs and their equipment vendors to months 
of testing, at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars, significantly 
delaying xDSL CLECs' ability to provide innovative broadband services."

 Additionally, these standards are often hypocritical.
= end 

Questions:
(1) Why did they say: "these standards (NEBS?) are often hypocritical"?
(2) Does the NEBS standard fall under Safety or Reliability? Why does it 
become controversial?
(3) How could have this uncertainty happened about using Levels 1, or 2, and 
or 3?

I know nothing about the standards you guys are talking about. Just for 
curiosity by asking silly questions.

Thanks.
Best Regards,
Barry Ma
Anritsu Co.
408-778-2000

-- Original Text --

From: "Jim Collum" , on 10/6/99 10:39 AM:


I was going to paste the relevant paragraphs of this article but perhaps the
website text might be easier to read.

http://www.techweek.com/articles/11-2-98/dsl.htm

Jim


-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of b...@attcanda.net
Sent: 05 October 1999 21:45
To: Gary McInturff
Cc: 'Grant, Tania (Tania)'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org'; 'Price, Ed'
Subject: Re: NEBS Levels..



This question comes up again and again


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Re: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)

[Ken Javor]

On point 2, I will try to do the following simple test at EMC Compliance.  I
will take my DRG horn (1-18 GHz) and place it about one foot from my screen
room wall.  I will place a directional coupler between signal source and
antenna, and measure forward/reverse power at 1 GHz.  Then I will take the
magnetic sheet, place it against the wall, and do it again. Difference in
reverse power reading is absorption of sheet.  If it works at all well, I
will try same test at lower frequencies with a logperiodic.  Any thoughts on
this?

--
>From: eric.lif...@ni.com
>To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>Subject: Re: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)
>Date: Wed, Oct 6, 1999, 11:00 AM
>

>
> Ken et al,
>
> I don't think these particular mag sheets evoke anywhere nearly so strong a
> magnetic field, I can't measure it here.  But, I can put a strip of it over
> three different color video monitors in our lab and see absolutely no effect
on
> color purity and no movement of pixels.  The stuff seems designed to barely
hold
> it's own weight, probably as a way to keep the cost down.  And as the vendor
> told me, for materials it was less costly than the wallpaper they first
> considered.
>
> IMO the RF should penetrate the ferrite well enough that, over a prolonged
> exposure, it would slowly deguass the ferrite - strongest at least at the
> surface where the field first impinges on the ferrite.
>
> A better way might be to take our HP 6842 and have it drive a home-made
> deguassing coil at a couple kHz or so, generating a few Amps/meter and drag it
> over the ferrites.  All I need now is a volunteer
>
> You might be right on point 2...  A curious person with a TEM cell might want
to
> write a paper on it.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
> To:   Eric Lifsey/AUS/NIC@NIC, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> cc:
> Subject:  Re: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)
>
>
> I don't know if the mag sheet would polarize/saturate the ferrite tile, but
> I have two questions:
>
> 1)  If the tile were saturated and needed de-gaussing, how could a 1000-4-3
> radiated field do this?.  The magnetic field density associated with the
> peak of a 10 V/m field is about 1 mG.  This is small compared to the
> "hundreds" of Gauss quoted earlier for the sheet magnetic field density.
>
> 2)  If the magnetic strip doesn't detract from quiet zone uniformity when
> laid over the ferrite tile, and the magnetic strip is a homogeneous magnetic
> material, is it just possible that the strip material itself acts as
> absorber...
>
> --
>>From: eric.lif...@ni.com
>>To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>>Subject: RE: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)
>>Date: Tue, Oct 5, 1999, 2:36 PM
>>
>
>>
>> Ed et al,
>>
>> Me too!
>>
>> The folks selling/installing our 3 meter chamber put the mag sheets in before
>> running the 16 point field cal.  The chamber's main purpose is for -3, -6,
and
>> the occasional -8.  It's just under 3 meters tall, so it can't serve for
>> bonafide emission testing, just debug work.
>>
>> My first question about the mag sheets was whether the static mag field would
>> cause the ferrites to gradually polarize over time, moving them up the
>> saturation curve.  The vendor said they've used the material before on larger
>> chambers with no apparent problems.  I suspect that the RF field test likely
>> serves as a demagnetizer to some extent, keeping saturation from happening.
> But
>> if the chamber went unused for a long period ... who knows?
>>
>> At least the cure would be to simply pull off the mag sheets and let the
> chamber
>> soak empty in a 26 MHz field for a while, at the same time monitoring the
>> reflected power until no change/time was evident.  (Or have a degaussing
party
>> with all your friends, free beer, and several tape deguassers?)
>>
>> Without a gaussmeter/probe, how would any of us know if the ferrites that
were
>> just installed in a new chamber were actually deguassed?  They could have
> become
>> polarized during shipment, maybe because they were hoisted by an
>> electric-powered fork lift?
>>
>> Maybe I should stop now
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To:   Eric Lifsey/AUS/NIC@NIC, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>> cc:
>> Subject:  RE: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)
>>
>> Eric:
>>
>> Although this sounds like a good mechanical solution, there's a few
>> electrical things that really worry me.
>>
>> Is this magnetic sheet material electrically non-conductive? Maybe it is,
>> with tiny little magnetic bits buried in a non-conductive plastic. OTOH,
>> maybe you will get some reflections or refractions of an incident wave as it
>> hits this material BEFORE hitting the ferrite tiles.
>>
>> Also, I measured a few magnetic decorations, and I found that the magnetic
>> field strength at the rear surface is on the order of hundreds of Gauss.
>> What effect might this strong magnetic field have on the uniform absorptive
>> characteristics of the ferrite tiles?
>>
>> Maybe I'm 

Re: Attachment Plugs and Power Cords

[Peter Merguerian]

Richard,

Refer to my answers in the body of your text:

> 
> I can find nothing in IEC 950 nor EN 60950 that defines the requirements for
> an attachment plug for equipment that is not permanently connected. Due to
> the silence of the standard, I conclude that an attachment plug is not
> required per the standard. Therefore, it appears that the plug wiring
> methods and strain relief must be per the national standards and/or
> electrical codes of each country. For example, UL 1950 has a national
> deviation that specifies the need for a plug.

Agree! However you should include safety instructions on proper 
way of attaching a plug meeting the national regulations.
> 
> I conclude that it is acceptable to CE mark a product that has no plug and
> allow a certified plug to be attached in any of the EU member states. CE
> marking compliance will not be affected.

Agree! See above

> I conclude that it is acceptable to replace a plug on a CE marked product
> with a nationally acceptable plug without affecting CE marking compliance. 

Agree! See above.
 
> I understand that the power cord must be acceptable for use in the target
> country.  Therefore, it is not possible to ship a single attached power cord
> to Asia, Eastern Europe, Africa and South America since the power cord may
> not be legal in the target country even if a national plug is attached.

Power Cord must be of the UL Liste Type for North America and an 
HAR Type for Europe which is also accepted in most countries 
worldwide. I have also seen (but do not remember the 
manufacturer) of a Listed cord set which is also HAR.

 
> Are my conclusions and understandings correct?

See above and Best Regards from Jerusalem. 
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> 


PETER S. MERGUERIAN
MANAGING DIRECTOR
PRODUCT TESTING DIVISION
I.T.L. (PRODUCT TESTING) LTD.
HACHAROSHET 26, P.O.B. 211
OR YEHUDA 60251, ISRAEL

TEL: 972-3-5339022
FAX: 972-3-5339019
E-MAIL: pe...@itl.co.il
Visit our Website: http://www.itl.co.il

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RE: Plastics ratings

[Peter Merguerian]

Darrell and George,

With the window removed does the opening yo create meet the fire 
enclosure requirements in the standard? If so, per UL1950/EN 60 
950 you can declare the plastic part as an electrical or mechanical 
enclosure part with flame rating of minimum 94HB. You must 
check your end-product standard.

Also please be aware that in lieu of 94-5V rating you can chose a 
material with a lower flammability rating if the part passes a 5-inch 
Flammability Test. Refer to UL1950/EN60950 or UL746C. I have 
seen 94V-1 rated material which passed the 5-inch Flame Test on 
the fabricated part.

One way of finding manufacturers of plastic sheet materials with 
the rating you wish is to use UL's ULDS data service program. 
Check with a UL Client Advisor at the UL office nearest to you.

Regards,
> 
> When you say sheet form, I assume you mean thin materials like .020-.040
> inch.  You probably will not find any materials that are rated for the
> 94-5VA test.  There are some thin materials like the GE Lexan FR grade, or
> Bayer Makrofol EPC that have 94V-0 ratings and may pass your test.  Keep in
> mind you must pass an impact test as well.  You may want to use a molded,
> thin panel in a greater thickness.  There are plenty of materials for this
> that come in clear such as polycarbonates (GE Lexan, Bayer Makrofol) of
> ABS/PC blends (Bayer Bayblend) that come in clear.  The RCD lists these in
> pellet form.
> 
> Darrell Locke
> Advanced Input Devices
>  --
> From: sparaci...@andovercontrols.com
> To: emc-p...@ieee.org
> Subject: Plastics ratings
> Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 8:22AM
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm looking for a plastic material that can be used as a "window" on a fire
> enclosure door.  This material must be available in sheet form, be able to
> withstand impact and be rated 94-5VA.  I referenced the (1996) UL plastics
> R/C directory and found nada.   I know, I need to buy the 1999 issue..
> 
> Anyway, if anyone knows were I can get something like this please let me
> know.  Also any insight on other materials ie. tempered or reinforced glass
> etc.  would be welcome.
> 
> Thanks,
> George
> 
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> 


PETER S. MERGUERIAN
MANAGING DIRECTOR
PRODUCT TESTING DIVISION
I.T.L. (PRODUCT TESTING) LTD.
HACHAROSHET 26, P.O.B. 211
OR YEHUDA 60251, ISRAEL

TEL: 972-3-5339022
FAX: 972-3-5339019
E-MAIL: pe...@itl.co.il
Visit our Website: http://www.itl.co.il

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RE: Temperature probe

[Ned Devine]

Hi,

I would think a thermocouple would be OK.  It should be close to +/- 1 deg.
C.  If you need better accuracy, try a RTD.  It should be +/- 0.1 deg. C.

Ned Devine
Entela, Inc.
Program Manager III
Phone 616 248 9671
Fax  616 574 9752
e-mail  ndev...@entela.com 

-Original Message-
From: Leslie Bai [mailto:leslie_...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 2:29 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Temperature probe



Hello, group:

Seems that my question is not relavent 
to this group but hope someone there
could help.

I am looking for an ACCURATE temperature
probe ( accuracy is about +/- 1 degree C
from -50 to +80 degree C). It will be used 
to measure the microwave frequency 
drifting over the temperature. It will be put
in a temperature chamber. Although the 
chamber has a temeprature display, it's
not accurate as we expected (about +/-3 degree C),
 thus we need a more accurate probe to perform
the  measurement.

If you have any info or similiar probe, pls
kindly let me know - the brand, model, etc...

Thanks in advance.
Leslie
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/991006/ca_digit_m_1.html

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RE: Temperature probe

[Leslie Bai]

Scott,

Thanks for your input.
How about the probe? 
Any recommendation?

Thanks
Leslie

--- "Lacey,Scott"  wrote:
> Leslie,
> 
> The Fluke Model 51 or 52 should be adequate for your
> needs. These are
> battery operated thermocouple instruments, single
> and dual input models.
> They are relatively inexpensive, and I would
> strongly recommend the dual
> input model for the extra features, as well as the
> ability to measure E.U.T.
> internal temperature and chamber ambient
> simultaneously.
> 
> Scott Lacey
> 
>   -Original Message-
>   From:   Leslie Bai [SMTP:leslie_...@yahoo.com]
>   Sent:   Wednesday, October 06, 1999 2:29 PM
>   To: emc-p...@ieee.org
>   Subject:Temperature probe
> 
> 
>   Hello, group:
> 
>   Seems that my question is not relavent 
>   to this group but hope someone there
>   could help.
> 
>   I am looking for an ACCURATE temperature
>   probe ( accuracy is about +/- 1 degree C
>   from -50 to +80 degree C). It will be used 
>   to measure the microwave frequency 
>   drifting over the temperature. It will be put
>   in a temperature chamber. Although the 
>   chamber has a temeprature display, it's
>   not accurate as we expected (about +/-3 degree C),
>thus we need a more accurate probe to perform
>   the  measurement.
> 
>   If you have any info or similiar probe, pls
>   kindly let me know - the brand, model, etc...
> 
>   Thanks in advance.
>   Leslie
> 
> http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/991006/ca_digit_m_1.html
> 
>   =
> 
>   __
>   Do You Yahoo!?
>   Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> 
>   -
>   This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion
> list.
>   To cancel your subscription, send mail to
> majord...@ieee.org
>   with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc"
> (without the
>   quotes).  For help, send mail to
> ed.pr...@cubic.com,
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> administrators).
>   
> 


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Re: FW: FCC, UL and CSA requirements

[Peter Merguerian]

Dear Lopez,

UL1419 if product is for professional use or UL1492 if product is not 
for comercial use. But best is to use UL6500 since it is 
harmonized with IEC 65. Both UL1419 and UL1492 will be 
eliminated within a few years and replaced by UL6500. The first 
edition of UL6500 is currently used but within a few months (check 
with UL), the Second Edition will be out. 

Regards,
 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From:   "López Arca, Gumersindo" [SMTP:gum...@televes.com]
> > Sent:   Wednesday, September 29, 1999 12:58 AM
> > To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
> > Subject:FCC, UL and CSA requirements
> > 
> > I would to know which parts of FCC, UL and CSA must complaint
> > audio/video/RF equipment used in TV/satellite signals distribution into
> > the
> > building.
> > Thanks in advance.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Saludos
> > G. L. Arca
> > gumersi...@televes.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
> Ed Price
> ed.pr...@cubic.com
> Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
> Cubic Defense Systems
> San Diego, CA.  USA
> 619-505-2780 (Voice)
> 619-505-1502 (Fax)
> Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
> Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis
> :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
> 
> -
> This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list.
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the
> quotes).  For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com,
> jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or
> roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
> 
> 


PETER S. MERGUERIAN
MANAGING DIRECTOR
PRODUCT TESTING DIVISION
I.T.L. (PRODUCT TESTING) LTD.
HACHAROSHET 26, P.O.B. 211
OR YEHUDA 60251, ISRAEL

TEL: 972-3-5339022
FAX: 972-3-5339019
E-MAIL: pe...@itl.co.il
Visit our Website: http://www.itl.co.il

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RE: Temperature probe

[Lacey,Scott]

Leslie,

The Fluke Model 51 or 52 should be adequate for your needs. These are
battery operated thermocouple instruments, single and dual input models.
They are relatively inexpensive, and I would strongly recommend the dual
input model for the extra features, as well as the ability to measure E.U.T.
internal temperature and chamber ambient simultaneously.

Scott Lacey

-Original Message-
From:   Leslie Bai [SMTP:leslie_...@yahoo.com]
Sent:   Wednesday, October 06, 1999 2:29 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject:Temperature probe


Hello, group:

Seems that my question is not relavent 
to this group but hope someone there
could help.

I am looking for an ACCURATE temperature
probe ( accuracy is about +/- 1 degree C
from -50 to +80 degree C). It will be used 
to measure the microwave frequency 
drifting over the temperature. It will be put
in a temperature chamber. Although the 
chamber has a temeprature display, it's
not accurate as we expected (about +/-3 degree C),
 thus we need a more accurate probe to perform
the  measurement.

If you have any info or similiar probe, pls
kindly let me know - the brand, model, etc...

Thanks in advance.
Leslie
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/991006/ca_digit_m_1.html

=

__
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RE: Italy & EMI/RFI Testing

[WOODS, RICHARD]

Dick, good luck in getting a government office to assist you. Since your
equipment is not licensed, you have no legal right to expect freedom from
interference. Generally, the PTTs just don't care about interference with
non-licensed services. Good luck.

--
From:  Dick Grobner [SMTP:dick.grob...@medgraph.com]
Sent:  Wednesday, October 06, 1999 1:09 PM
To:  IEEE EMC-PSTC E-Mail Forum (E-mail)
Subject:  Italy & EMI/RFI Testing


Good Day All - Being a new member (1 mth) on this forum, I want to
say it
has been very informative. Some of the responses to questions asked
are
interesting and enlightening to say the least. Some of you have
"vivid"
imaginations - which is good!  Now lets get to my question. Does
anyone know
of an organization within Italy (governmental or private) that could
go into
one of our customer sites and do a field evaluation / study as
related to
EMI/RFI. We have a piece of medical equipment which we suspect might
be
infringed upon by RF. The equipment is compliant with the
requirements of
EN60601-1-2 (medical EMI/RFI).   
Any input would be appreciated. Need responses no later than Oct 8
Thx in advance

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Re: Schaffner ESD gun Calibration

[Derek Walton]

There is a new company in Rockford, IL. that is setting up to calibrate EMC test
equipment. They are called Forrest City Instrument Calibration.

If you would like info e-mail me, I'll try to get a hold of an electronic
version of their brochure...

Best regards,

Derek Walton.
OwnerL. F. Research EMC Design and Test Facility

"UMBDENSTOCK, DON" wrote:

> Hello Randall,
>
> We have the same model.  We have ours calibrated at Liberty Labs
> (www.liberty-labs.com).  They are responsive and price competitive.  Hope
> this helps.
>
> Don Umbdenstock
> Sensormatic
>
> > --
> > From:
> > randall.flind...@emulex.com[SMTP:randall.flind...@emulex.com] on behalf of
> > Flinders, Randall[SMTP:randall.flind...@emulex.com]
> > Reply To: Flinders, Randall
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 5:36 PM
> > To:   'emc-pstc'
> > Subject:  Schaffner ESD gun Calibration
> >
> > Greetings EMC Professionals -
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone out there in complianceland has info on any
> > calibration vendors who provide calibration services for a Schaffner
> > NSG-435 ESD Gun.  My numerous attempts at getting a quote from Schaffner
> > have been unsuccessful and I really need to get this thing calibrated
> > before my next QA audit.
> >
> > Any leads or information would be appreciated!
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Randall T. Flinders
> > EMC Engineer
> > Emulex Corporation
> > (714) 513-8012 voice
> > (714) 513-8265 fax
> > randall.flind...@ieee.org
> > __   __
> > __\ /__
> > __/ \__
> > E  M  U  L  E  X
> >
> > aka..
> >
> > Chairman
> > Orange County Chapter
> > IEEE EMC Society
> > r.flind...@ieee.org
> >
>
> -
> This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list.
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the
> quotes).  For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com,
> jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or
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Temperature probe

[Leslie Bai]

Hello, group:

Seems that my question is not relavent 
to this group but hope someone there
could help.

I am looking for an ACCURATE temperature
probe ( accuracy is about +/- 1 degree C
from -50 to +80 degree C). It will be used 
to measure the microwave frequency 
drifting over the temperature. It will be put
in a temperature chamber. Although the 
chamber has a temeprature display, it's
not accurate as we expected (about +/-3 degree C),
 thus we need a more accurate probe to perform
the  measurement.

If you have any info or similiar probe, pls
kindly let me know - the brand, model, etc...

Thanks in advance.
Leslie
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/991006/ca_digit_m_1.html

=

__
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Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

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RE: Plastics ratings

[Darrell Locke (MSMail)]

When you say sheet form, I assume you mean thin materials like .020-.040
inch.  You probably will not find any materials that are rated for the
94-5VA test.  There are some thin materials like the GE Lexan FR grade, or
Bayer Makrofol EPC that have 94V-0 ratings and may pass your test.  Keep in
mind you must pass an impact test as well.  You may want to use a molded,
thin panel in a greater thickness.  There are plenty of materials for this
that come in clear such as polycarbonates (GE Lexan, Bayer Makrofol) of
ABS/PC blends (Bayer Bayblend) that come in clear.  The RCD lists these in
pellet form.

Darrell Locke
Advanced Input Devices
 --
From: sparaci...@andovercontrols.com
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Plastics ratings
List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org
Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 8:22AM


Hello All,

I'm looking for a plastic material that can be used as a "window" on a fire
enclosure door.  This material must be available in sheet form, be able to
withstand impact and be rated 94-5VA.  I referenced the (1996) UL plastics
R/C directory and found nada.   I know, I need to buy the 1999 issue..

Anyway, if anyone knows were I can get something like this please let me
know.  Also any insight on other materials ie. tempered or reinforced glass
etc.  would be welcome.

Thanks,
George

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Presentation Availability for Embedded Capacitance

[Grasso, Charles (Chaz)]

To all interested parties:

For all those seeking a copy of the presentation - Good News!!

There will be a presentation available in pdf format about 1 week after
the meeting.

I will send the link out when the download is available.


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Italy & EMI/RFI Testing

[Dick Grobner]

Good Day All - Being a new member (1 mth) on this forum, I want to say it
has been very informative. Some of the responses to questions asked are
interesting and enlightening to say the least. Some of you have "vivid"
imaginations - which is good!  Now lets get to my question. Does anyone know
of an organization within Italy (governmental or private) that could go into
one of our customer sites and do a field evaluation / study as related to
EMI/RFI. We have a piece of medical equipment which we suspect might be
infringed upon by RF. The equipment is compliant with the requirements of
EN60601-1-2 (medical EMI/RFI).   
Any input would be appreciated. Need responses no later than Oct 8
Thx in advance

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RE: NEBS Levels..

[Naftali Shani]

To prove the point delivered below, see the Bell Atlantic Check List (now at
Rev. 9) that specifically states this:
1.1.1.1.NOTE: Bell Atlantic does not use or endorse the various
conformance levels as described in Bellcore (BCR) Special Report (SR) 3580.

1.1.1.2.All suppliers are advised that Bell Atlantic recognizes only
Level 3.  
1.1.1.3.No supplier shall assume or expect conformance based on
SR­3580 Level 1 or Level 2.

Regards,
Naftali Shani, Nortel Networks, Dept. 0S45, MS 117/C1/N04
21 Richardson Side Road, Kanata, Ontario, Canada  K2K 2C1
Voice +1.613.765.2505 (ESN 395) Fax +1.613.763.3365 (ESN 393)
E-mail: nsh...@nortelnetworks.com  

-Original Message-
From:   b...@attcanda.net [SMTP:b...@attcanada.net]
Sent:   Wednesday, October 06, 1999 12:45 AM
To: Gary McInturff
Cc: 'Grant, Tania (Tania)'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org'; 'Price, Ed'
Subject:Re: NEBS Levels..


This question comes up again and again.  Not necessarily in this
forum, but from
Sales Engineers all over the world.  Please, Please keep in mind
that these
levels ARE NOT endorsed by any North American Telcos that I know of
(please
prove me wrong).  Each Telco seems to have their own set of levels
which are
conveniently labeled one to three.  There is no correlation that I
know of.
SR3580, Level 2, Zone 2 earthquake is not an acceptable level to the
west
coast.  Please keep this in mind and if anyone knows of a North
American Telco,
whose operations managers will sign up to these levels as defined by
SR3580,
please let me know.

Thanks,

Bob

Gary McInturff wrote:

> >From NEBS SR3580
> Level 1 Minimum acceptable required to preclude hazards and
degradation.
> Possible applications for Level 1 criteria prototype for trial ,
limited
> deployment in non-vital services and competitive access provider
collocated
> equipment.
> Level 2 Minimum level need to provide limited assurance of
equipment
> operability within network. Possible deployement in highly
controlled
> environments such as data centers and widespread or long-term of
equipment
> performing non-critical network service, where loss of equipment
operation
> under environment extremes can be tolerated.
> Level 3 The minimum level of environmental compatibility needed to
provide
> maximum assurance of equipment operability. The level 3 criteria
provide
> highest assurance of product operability. Possible applications
include
> critical network equipment such as digital switches, transport
products and
> power systems.
> There is a summary tables and other information that go
along with
> this quick blurb, but indeed, you'll have to purchase that
specification.
> This is just intended to get you started, if you don't already
have this
> information.
> Gary
>
> -Original Message-
> From:   Grant, Tania (Tania)
[mailto:tgr...@lucent.com]
> Sent:   Monday, October 04, 1999 7:11 PM
> To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'; 'Price, Ed'
> Subject:RE: NEBS Levels..
>
> George,
>
> Bellcore standard:   SR-3580, Network Equipment -
Building
> Systems (NEBS)
> Criteria Levels.
>
> I am afraid you will have to buy it.
>
> Tania Grant,   tgr...@lucent.com

> Lucent Technologies, Communications Applications
Group
>
> --
> From:  Price, Ed [SMTP:ed.pr...@cubic.com]
> Sent:  Monday, October 04, 1999 4:22 PM
> To:  'emc-p...@ieee.org'
> Subject:  FW: NEBS Levels..
>
> Posted for sparaci...@andovercontrols.com:
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: sparaci...@andovercontrols.com
> [SMTP:sparaci...@andovercontrols.com]
> > Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 1:35 PM
> > To:   emc-p...@ieee.org
> > Subject:  NEBS Levels..
> >
> > Hello Group,
> >
> > I should probally direct this question
elsewhere, but does
> anyone know
> > where I can get an explaination of the criteria
for each
> NEBS level ?
> >
> >
>   

RE: Plastics ratings

[WOODS, RICHARD]

Perhaps you could use a metal screen behind the window. The screen would act
as the fire enclosure and then the plastic could be rated HB. However, hole
size in the screen could be an issue for viewing as well as complying with
the fire enclosure requirements.

--
From:  sparaci...@andovercontrols.com
[SMTP:sparaci...@andovercontrols.com]
Sent:  Wednesday, October 06, 1999 11:23 AM
To:  emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject:  Plastics ratings


Hello All,

I'm looking for a plastic material that can be used as a "window" on
a fire enclosure door.  This material must be available in sheet form, be
able to withstand impact and be rated 94-5VA.  I referenced the (1996) UL
plastics R/C directory and found nada.   I know, I need to buy the 1999
issue..

Anyway, if anyone knows were I can get something like this please
let me know.  Also any insight on other materials ie. tempered or reinforced
glass etc.  would be welcome.

Thanks,
George

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RE: A Viral Story

[Price, Ed]

> -Original Message-
> From: Doug Piper [SMTP:doug.pi...@wovenelectronics.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 7:18 AM
> To:   'Price, Ed'
> Subject:  RE: A Viral Story
> 
> Ed,
> Do you mind telling me what kind of virus filter did you use to catch the
> virus in the mail server?
> 
> Doug Piper
> Woven Electronics
> P.O. Box 189
> Mauldin, SC 29662
> PH 864-967-1751
> FAX 864-963-1761
> e-mail: doug.pi...@wovenelectronics.com
> www.wovenelectronics.com
> 
Doug:

Sorry, but I don't know what type of scanning system that the IEEE
uses to filter the lists, their own email and the IEEE Remailer Service.

You might be able to get some information on this by calling
Jennifer, at the IEEE Help Desk, at:

helpd...@ieee.org
732-562-5439
800-789-4333

OTOH, they might be a bit reticent regarding publicizing this
information.

Ed


:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
Ed Price
ed.pr...@cubic.com
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
Cubic Defense Systems
San Diego, CA.  USA
619-505-2780 (Voice)
619-505-1502 (Fax)
Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis
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Re: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)

[eric . lifsey]

Ken et al,

I don't think these particular mag sheets evoke anywhere nearly so strong a
magnetic field, I can't measure it here.  But, I can put a strip of it over
three different color video monitors in our lab and see absolutely no effect on
color purity and no movement of pixels.  The stuff seems designed to barely hold
it's own weight, probably as a way to keep the cost down.  And as the vendor
told me, for materials it was less costly than the wallpaper they first
considered.

IMO the RF should penetrate the ferrite well enough that, over a prolonged
exposure, it would slowly deguass the ferrite - strongest at least at the
surface where the field first impinges on the ferrite.

A better way might be to take our HP 6842 and have it drive a home-made
deguassing coil at a couple kHz or so, generating a few Amps/meter and drag it
over the ferrites.  All I need now is a volunteer

You might be right on point 2...  A curious person with a TEM cell might want to
write a paper on it.

Eric




To:   Eric Lifsey/AUS/NIC@NIC, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
cc:
Subject:  Re: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)


I don't know if the mag sheet would polarize/saturate the ferrite tile, but
I have two questions:

1)  If the tile were saturated and needed de-gaussing, how could a 1000-4-3
radiated field do this?.  The magnetic field density associated with the
peak of a 10 V/m field is about 1 mG.  This is small compared to the
"hundreds" of Gauss quoted earlier for the sheet magnetic field density.

2)  If the magnetic strip doesn't detract from quiet zone uniformity when
laid over the ferrite tile, and the magnetic strip is a homogeneous magnetic
material, is it just possible that the strip material itself acts as
absorber...

--
>From: eric.lif...@ni.com
>To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>Subject: RE: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)
>Date: Tue, Oct 5, 1999, 2:36 PM
>

>
> Ed et al,
>
> Me too!
>
> The folks selling/installing our 3 meter chamber put the mag sheets in before
> running the 16 point field cal.  The chamber's main purpose is for -3, -6, and
> the occasional -8.  It's just under 3 meters tall, so it can't serve for
> bonafide emission testing, just debug work.
>
> My first question about the mag sheets was whether the static mag field would
> cause the ferrites to gradually polarize over time, moving them up the
> saturation curve.  The vendor said they've used the material before on larger
> chambers with no apparent problems.  I suspect that the RF field test likely
> serves as a demagnetizer to some extent, keeping saturation from happening.
But
> if the chamber went unused for a long period ... who knows?
>
> At least the cure would be to simply pull off the mag sheets and let the
chamber
> soak empty in a 26 MHz field for a while, at the same time monitoring the
> reflected power until no change/time was evident.  (Or have a degaussing party
> with all your friends, free beer, and several tape deguassers?)
>
> Without a gaussmeter/probe, how would any of us know if the ferrites that were
> just installed in a new chamber were actually deguassed?  They could have
become
> polarized during shipment, maybe because they were hoisted by an
> electric-powered fork lift?
>
> Maybe I should stop now
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
> To:   Eric Lifsey/AUS/NIC@NIC, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> cc:
> Subject:  RE: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)
>
> Eric:
>
> Although this sounds like a good mechanical solution, there's a few
> electrical things that really worry me.
>
> Is this magnetic sheet material electrically non-conductive? Maybe it is,
> with tiny little magnetic bits buried in a non-conductive plastic. OTOH,
> maybe you will get some reflections or refractions of an incident wave as it
> hits this material BEFORE hitting the ferrite tiles.
>
> Also, I measured a few magnetic decorations, and I found that the magnetic
> field strength at the rear surface is on the order of hundreds of Gauss.
> What effect might this strong magnetic field have on the uniform absorptive
> characteristics of the ferrite tiles?
>
> Maybe I'm raising unfounded concerns, but the proof would be in
> characterizing your chamber. I hope you proved the performance of the room
> AFTER you put up those magnetic sheets!
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From:   eric.lif...@ni.com [SMTP:eric.lif...@ni.com]
>> Sent:   Monday, October 04, 1999 8:21 AM
>> To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>> Subject: Re: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)
>>
>> Our new 3 meter ferrite chamber is lined with white sheet-magnet material,
>> the
>> same stuff used for refrigerator magnets and calendars..  All walls were
>> covered
>> by the installer, but you only really need it around the turntable end.
>> The
>> chamber seems to perform fine with it, but I'd recommend you rerun your -3
>> field
>> uniformity for the obvious reasons.
>>
>> The best part is -- no glu

RE: Schaffner ESD gun Calibration

[Le, Ngoc]

Here are the vendors that you can try out.

Simco
10200 Pioneer Blvd.
Santa Fe Spring, CA 90670
800-235-6990
Contact: Jim Merriam

or

Schaffner
12 Hughes Suite D-106
Irvine, CA 91718
714 (or 949) - 457-9400

Ngoc Le
Sr Quality Engineer
Newport Corp.

> -Original Message-
> From: randall.flind...@emulex.com [mailto:randall.flind...@emulex.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 2:36 PM
> To:   'emc-pstc'
> Subject:  Schaffner ESD gun Calibration
> 
> Greetings EMC Professionals - 
> 
> I was wondering if anyone out there in complianceland has info on any
> calibration vendors who provide calibration services for a Schaffner
> NSG-435 ESD Gun.  My numerous attempts at getting a quote from Schaffner
> have been unsuccessful and I really need to get this thing calibrated
> before my next QA audit.
> 
> Any leads or information would be appreciated!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Randall T. Flinders
> EMC Engineer
> Emulex Corporation
> (714) 513-8012 voice
> (714) 513-8265 fax
> randall.flind...@ieee.org
> __   __
> __\ /__
> __/ \__
> E  M  U  L  E  X
> 
> aka..
> 
> Chairman
> Orange County Chapter
> IEEE EMC Society
> r.flind...@ieee.org

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Attachment Plugs and Power Cords

[WOODS, RICHARD]

I can find nothing in IEC 950 nor EN 60950 that defines the requirements for
an attachment plug for equipment that is not permanently connected. Due to
the silence of the standard, I conclude that an attachment plug is not
required per the standard. Therefore, it appears that the plug wiring
methods and strain relief must be per the national standards and/or
electrical codes of each country. For example, UL 1950 has a national
deviation that specifies the need for a plug.

I conclude that it is acceptable to CE mark a product that has no plug and
allow a certified plug to be attached in any of the EU member states. CE
marking compliance will not be affected.

I conclude that it is acceptable to replace a plug on a CE marked product
with a nationally acceptable plug without affecting CE marking compliance. 

I understand that the power cord must be acceptable for use in the target
country.  Therefore, it is not possible to ship a single attached power cord
to Asia, Eastern Europe, Africa and South America since the power cord may
not be legal in the target country even if a national plug is attached.

Are my conclusions and understandings correct?

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Plastics ratings

[SparacinoG]

Hello All,

I'm looking for a plastic material that can be used as a "window" on a fire 
enclosure door.  This material must be available in sheet form, be able to 
withstand impact and be rated 94-5VA.  I referenced the (1996) UL plastics R/C 
directory and found nada.   I know, I need to buy the 1999 issue..

Anyway, if anyone knows were I can get something like this please let me know.  
Also any insight on other materials ie. tempered or reinforced glass etc.  
would be welcome.

Thanks,
George

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Re: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)

[Ken Javor]

I don't know if the mag sheet would polarize/saturate the ferrite tile, but
I have two questions:

1)  If the tile were saturated and needed de-gaussing, how could a 1000-4-3
radiated field do this?.  The magnetic field density associated with the
peak of a 10 V/m field is about 1 mG.  This is small compared to the
"hundreds" of Gauss quoted earlier for the sheet magnetic field density.

2)  If the magnetic strip doesn't detract from quiet zone uniformity when
laid over the ferrite tile, and the magnetic strip is a homogeneous magnetic
material, is it just possible that the strip material itself acts as
absorber...

--
>From: eric.lif...@ni.com
>To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>Subject: RE: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)
>Date: Tue, Oct 5, 1999, 2:36 PM
>

>
> Ed et al,
>
> Me too!
>
> The folks selling/installing our 3 meter chamber put the mag sheets in before
> running the 16 point field cal.  The chamber's main purpose is for -3, -6, and
> the occasional -8.  It's just under 3 meters tall, so it can't serve for
> bonafide emission testing, just debug work.
>
> My first question about the mag sheets was whether the static mag field would
> cause the ferrites to gradually polarize over time, moving them up the
> saturation curve.  The vendor said they've used the material before on larger
> chambers with no apparent problems.  I suspect that the RF field test likely
> serves as a demagnetizer to some extent, keeping saturation from happening.
But
> if the chamber went unused for a long period ... who knows?
>
> At least the cure would be to simply pull off the mag sheets and let the
chamber
> soak empty in a 26 MHz field for a while, at the same time monitoring the
> reflected power until no change/time was evident.  (Or have a degaussing party
> with all your friends, free beer, and several tape deguassers?)
>
> Without a gaussmeter/probe, how would any of us know if the ferrites that were
> just installed in a new chamber were actually deguassed?  They could have
become
> polarized during shipment, maybe because they were hoisted by an
> electric-powered fork lift?
>
> Maybe I should stop now
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
> To:   Eric Lifsey/AUS/NIC@NIC, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> cc:
> Subject:  RE: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)
>
> Eric:
>
> Although this sounds like a good mechanical solution, there's a few
> electrical things that really worry me.
>
> Is this magnetic sheet material electrically non-conductive? Maybe it is,
> with tiny little magnetic bits buried in a non-conductive plastic. OTOH,
> maybe you will get some reflections or refractions of an incident wave as it
> hits this material BEFORE hitting the ferrite tiles.
>
> Also, I measured a few magnetic decorations, and I found that the magnetic
> field strength at the rear surface is on the order of hundreds of Gauss.
> What effect might this strong magnetic field have on the uniform absorptive
> characteristics of the ferrite tiles?
>
> Maybe I'm raising unfounded concerns, but the proof would be in
> characterizing your chamber. I hope you proved the performance of the room
> AFTER you put up those magnetic sheets!
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From:   eric.lif...@ni.com [SMTP:eric.lif...@ni.com]
>> Sent:   Monday, October 04, 1999 8:21 AM
>> To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>> Subject: Re: Coatings for Ferrite Tiles? (Magnetic Wallpaper)
>>
>> Our new 3 meter ferrite chamber is lined with white sheet-magnet material,
>> the
>> same stuff used for refrigerator magnets and calendars..  All walls were
>> covered
>> by the installer, but you only really need it around the turntable end.
>> The
>> chamber seems to perform fine with it, but I'd recommend you rerun your -3
>> field
>> uniformity for the obvious reasons.
>>
>> The best part is -- no glue!  If you don't like where it stuck, just pull
>> it off
>> and try again.
>>
>> We kept the shipper/pick-list form and learned that ours came from
>>
>> Master Magnetics, Inc.
>> 108 Industry Road
>> Marietta, Ohio
>> 303-688-3966
>>
>> The item number and description was ZG2024GW50MG MAG SHEET .020x24"x50'
>> GLOSS
>> WHITE.  I don't know what the actual cost was, but in quantity it was
>> supposedly
>> less costly than wallpaper, if you can believe that.
>>
>> I suspect that if you searched the web for magnetic sheet you'd find a
>> supplier
>> nearby.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Lifsey
>> Compliance Manager
>> National Instruments
>>
>>
>>
> :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
> Ed Price
> ed.pr...@cubic.com
> Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
> Cubic Defense Systems
> San Diego, CA.  USA
> 619-505-2780 (Voice)
> 619-505-1502 (Fax)
> Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
> Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis
> :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> This message is coming fro

Re: Results of SLIM Recommendations

[Lou Gnecco]

Joe: check this web site: 

http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg03/directs/dg3d/d1/eleng/index.htm

it's all there. click on emc, then click on slim.
bottom line: they are going to review the emc directive. ( no surprise there.)
Lou


.
LOUIS T. GNECCO M.S.E.E., PRESIDENT
TEMPEST INC. 112 ELDEN ST. HERNDON, VA 20170
(703) "TEMPEST" (836-7378)
CERTIFIED ELECTROMAGNETIC COMPATIBILITY ENGINEER: CERT.# EMC-000543-NE
CERTIFIED ELECTROSTATIC DISCHARGE CONTROL ENGINEER: CERT. # ESD-00143-NE
CERTIFIED TEMPEST PROFESSIONAL, LEVEL II
..


At 04:02 PM 10/5/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>
>Is anyone aware of the results of the SLIM III recommendations per the "Report
>of the SLIM III Team on Electromagnetic Compatibility Directive (89/336/EEC as
>amended)" dated 9/98. I had heard that the  Commission was going to produce a
>"Communication" to the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament earlier
>this year.
>
>I am particularly interested in the CE+CE=CE issue.
>
>All responses are appreciated
>
>Regards
>
>Joe Martin
>EMC/Product Safety Engineer
>marti...@pebio.com
>
>
>
>-
>This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list.
>To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org
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>


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Re: Paschen's law.

[Dan Irish - Sun BOS Hardware]

Gary, all,

The following is from Doug McKean.
By the way, at room temperature (20 degrees C, 293 degrees Kelvin)
and 1 atmosphere at sea level (760 mm mercury,) this formula
simplifies to:

V(kV)= 24.2h +6.1(h)^0.5  

where 
 V is the breakdown voltage in KV
 h is electrode spacing in cm.

Re-reading Gary's email, he mentioned this, too:

"At STP, S = 1 so 30KV/cm is pretty good"

Scroll down for the complete formula.

Also, is anyone else surprised that humidity does not
play a factor in this empirical formula?

Regards,
Dan

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Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 12:34:46 -0800
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
From: Douglas McKean 
Subject: Re: UL 1950 Requirements for Operational Insulation
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At 09:30 AM 3/3/99 -0800, Allen Tudor wrote:
>Clause 5.4.4 of UL 1950, Third Edition specifies that in lieu of creepage
and clearance distance requirements for operational insulation, the
electric strength test for operational insulation (Table 18) can be used.
>
>Does anyone know how to calculate minimum distances between traces on a
printed circuit board that would allow one to pass the dielectric test at a
given voltage?  Or has anyone taken any empirical data that would shed
light on this topic?  Also, would trace width have an impact on the
dielectric test results?

This is highly empirical and best done with a 
hi-pot tester and some bare boards. 

You're talking about Paschen's Law. 

Paschen's Law:  Breakdown Voltage (BV) for uniform gaps

 V(kV)= 24.2Sh +6.1(Sh)^0.5  

where 
 V is the breakdown voltage in KV
 S=(293p)/760T
 h is electrode spacing in cm.
 p is pressure mm of mercury
 T is temperature in degrees Kelvin

At STP, S = 1 so 30KV/cm is pretty good 

This relationship does not work for all values of pressure.  
This is all greatly dependent upon the geometry of the 
two test points of concern.  I believe Paschen came up with 
this empirical equation with point probes.  I like to remember 
that 3M volts for 1 meter at STP (roughly). That still works 
with the above equation. 

But remember that the field about two *point charges* varies 
inversely with the square of the distance.  The field about 
two *line charges* varies inversely only with distance. So be 
careful fudging distances with traces. 

If we have 3MV @ 1m, then 3KV @ 1 mm which is roughly 40 mils. 
Double it for a x2 safety factor to 2 mm or 80 mils.  For 
reinforced insulation, it's a x2 yet again so that now you 
have a 4 mm or 160 mil separation.  Pick the safety factor 
that you want.  I'm just suggesting this.  I seem to remember 
something about wire mfrs build in a safety factor of x7 into 
the insulation, but I'm not sure about that.  

Now, take a look at UL-1950, Table 3, "Minimum Clearances for 
insulation i primary circuits, and between primary and secondary 
circuits ..."   

In the column for >150V, <= 300V with a transient of 2.5KV, 
you get a rough idea (agreed very rough idea) of how these 
numbers work out ...  

" Vrms = 300V, Op = 1.7, B/S = 2.0, R = 4.0 " 

Some of those clearance numbers look familiar when compared to 
working it out long hand in my paragraph above?  
You can bet they do.  

The trace width does not have an impact on dielectric testing if 
you're talking about two traces horizontally adjacent on the same 
layer of the board.  Traces vertically adjacent to each other will 
be a different story since the old standby FR-4 with a Dk = 4.7 
will increase the BV by a factor of roughly 4.7. 

But, again, do your own empirical evaluations on your own boards. 
It will prove to be invaluable information.  Hi-pot testing is 
one of the most common areas of safety testing failure. 


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> From: Gary McInturff 
> To: "'emc-p...@ieee.org'" 
> Subject: Paschen's law.
> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:40:30 -0700 
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> X-Resent-To: Multiple Recipients 
> X-Listname: emc-pstc
> X-Info: Help requests to  emc-pstc-requ...@majordomo.ieee.org
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> X-Moderator-Address: emc-pstc-appro...@majordomo.ieee.org
> 
> 
> A small blurb on this came across the list-server awhile ago, unfortunately,
> I moved companies and apparently didn't get this out of my electronic filing
> cabinet. Did anyone else save this tidbit? And would they forward it to me
> again.
> It was the basic form

Colorado Product Safety Technical Committee (CPSTC) minutes for t he September 15, 1999 meeting.

[RichardG]

For those of you who are interested in the Colorado Product Safety Technical
Committee (CPSTC) minutes for September 15, 1999, please link to the Product
Safety Newsletter (PSN) new website at:
http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/

Richard Georgerian, CPSTC Chair
PSTC Secretary
Product Compliance Engineer
Exabyte
1685 38th Street
Boulder, CO  80301
USA
tel.: 303-417-7537  fax: 303-417-5710   e-mail: richa...@exabyte.com


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Re: Rental Source for Broadband Source for Chamber Correlation

[Ken Javor]

Aside from a comb generator, what do you mean by a broadband source for 
chamber correlation?

--
>From: michael.garret...@radisys.com
>To: emc-p...@ieee.org
>Subject: Rental Source for Broadband Source for Chamber Correlation
>Date: Tue, Oct 5, 1999, 1:29 PM
>

>
> Group,
>
> I seem to be having difficulty trying to locate a vendor who will rent me a
> broadband source to use for precompliance chamber correlation measurements.  I
> have a comb generator, but it is not providing me with enough information to
> ensure we have good correlation with the test house(s) that we have been using
> for final certification.
>
> I have been told that such generators may only be available for sale and if
> that's the case, I'm interested in vendors and approximate costs for that, as
> well.
>
> I have tried to use several of the "forums" set up by some on this list and
> basically come up empty.  I have called several of the "usual suspects" for
> rental equipment without successful results.  One issue is that I'm short on
> details of what specific equipment would suit my needs.  I have briefly
borrowed
> the use of a York CNE III and I know Laplace makes something similar.  I have
> been told G-strip and Excel also have offerings in this area, but none of
these
> seem to show up in rental firms' inventories.  If you can give me further
> options in this respect, it may open some doors for me there, as well.
>
> If you could provide me with any assistance, I would appreciate it.  I will
also
> happily post a summary of my findings and pass them on to anyone running these
> "forums" for inclusion in their listings.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Garretson
> Compliance Engineer
> RadiSys Corporation
>
>
>
> -
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> To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the
> quotes).  For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com,
> jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or
> roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
>
> 

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RE: NEBS Levels..

[Jim Collum]

I was going to paste the relevant paragraphs of this article but perhaps the
website text might be easier to read.

http://www.techweek.com/articles/11-2-98/dsl.htm

Jim


-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of b...@attcanda.net
Sent: 05 October 1999 21:45
To: Gary McInturff
Cc: 'Grant, Tania (Tania)'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org'; 'Price, Ed'
Subject: Re: NEBS Levels..



This question comes up again and again


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RE: SBC TP76200MP DC Power Requirements

[JIM WIESE]

You can order programmable relay controllers from Newark or Allied
electronics.  Omron makes some good ones for this test.  They run about
$150.

The inductor will have to be custom built using "E" and "I" cores and if
done correctly will weigh about 75 to 100 pounds (assuming you need to
source any amount of current over a few amps).

Good Luck,
Jim

Jim Wiese
NEBS Project Manager/Compliance Engineer
ADTRAN, INC.
901 Explorer Blvd.
P.O. Box 14
Huntsville, AL 35814-4000
256-963-8431
256-963-8250 fax
jim.wi...@adtran.com 

> --
> From: Jerry Martin[SMTP:martin_je...@juno.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 12:33 AM
> To:   t...@world.std.com; emc-p...@ieee.org; n...@world.std.com
> Subject:  SBC TP76200MP DC Power Requirements
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with SBC's TP76200MP document?
> 
> I'm specifically looking for information on how to do some of the tests
> in Section 8 "DC Power".
> 
> Where can I get/make an "Electronic Switch/Relay" of Figures 8-3 and 8-5?
> 
> Where can I get/make the 0.08 H inductor?
> 
> Any help is appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jerry
> 
> ___
> Get the Internet just the way you want it.
> Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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RE: Schaffner ESD gun Calibration

[UMBDENSTOCK, DON]

Hello Randall,

We have the same model.  We have ours calibrated at Liberty Labs
(www.liberty-labs.com).  They are responsive and price competitive.  Hope
this helps.

Don Umbdenstock
Sensormatic

> --
> From:
> randall.flind...@emulex.com[SMTP:randall.flind...@emulex.com] on behalf of
> Flinders, Randall[SMTP:randall.flind...@emulex.com]
> Reply To: Flinders, Randall
> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 5:36 PM
> To:   'emc-pstc'
> Subject:  Schaffner ESD gun Calibration
> 
> Greetings EMC Professionals - 
> 
> I was wondering if anyone out there in complianceland has info on any
> calibration vendors who provide calibration services for a Schaffner
> NSG-435 ESD Gun.  My numerous attempts at getting a quote from Schaffner
> have been unsuccessful and I really need to get this thing calibrated
> before my next QA audit.
> 
> Any leads or information would be appreciated!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Randall T. Flinders
> EMC Engineer
> Emulex Corporation
> (714) 513-8012 voice
> (714) 513-8265 fax
> randall.flind...@ieee.org
> __   __
> __\ /__
> __/ \__
> E  M  U  L  E  X
> 
> aka..
> 
> Chairman
> Orange County Chapter
> IEEE EMC Society
> r.flind...@ieee.org
> 

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Re: Rental Source for Broadband Source for Chamber Correlation

[Derek Walton]

Hi folks,

I've thought about seeing if anyone was interested in a time share scheme for 
such a
device, perhaps with 12 members. Cost would be about $300, each getting it for a
month on rotation, or for short duration's if needed urgently.

By the way, a good 10 MHz and 100 MHz SMD oscillator make a great site check for
everyday use. I've built a few here and are sufficient to pick out set-up 
anomalies
before and after you start a test. Use a pre-scaler for conducted set-up check.

Thoughts?

Derek.

michael.garret...@radisys.com wrote:

> Group,
>
> I seem to be having difficulty trying to locate a vendor who will rent me a
> broadband source to use for precompliance chamber correlation measurements.  I
> have a comb generator, but it is not providing me with enough information to
> ensure we have good correlation with the test house(s) that we have been using
> for final certification.
>
> I have been told that such generators may only be available for sale and if
> that's the case, I'm interested in vendors and approximate costs for that, as
> well.
>
> I have tried to use several of the "forums" set up by some on this list and
> basically come up empty.  I have called several of the "usual suspects" for
> rental equipment without successful results.  One issue is that I'm short on
> details of what specific equipment would suit my needs.  I have briefly 
> borrowed
> the use of a York CNE III and I know Laplace makes something similar.  I have
> been told G-strip and Excel also have offerings in this area, but none of 
> these
> seem to show up in rental firms' inventories.  If you can give me further
> options in this respect, it may open some doors for me there, as well.
>
> If you could provide me with any assistance, I would appreciate it.  I will 
> also
> happily post a summary of my findings and pass them on to anyone running these
> "forums" for inclusion in their listings.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Garretson
> Compliance Engineer
> RadiSys Corporation
>
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--
Derek Walton
Owner
L. F. Research EMC Design and Test Facility
12790 Route 76,
Poplar Grove,
IL 61065.
www.lfresearch.com



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SBC TP76200MP DC Power Requirements

[Jerry Martin]

Does anyone have any experience with SBC's TP76200MP document?

I'm specifically looking for information on how to do some of the tests
in Section 8 "DC Power".

Where can I get/make an "Electronic Switch/Relay" of Figures 8-3 and 8-5?

Where can I get/make the 0.08 H inductor?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Jerry

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Re: NEBS Levels..

[b...@attcanda.net]

This question comes up again and again.  Not necessarily in this forum, but from
Sales Engineers all over the world.  Please, Please keep in mind that these
levels ARE NOT endorsed by any North American Telcos that I know of (please
prove me wrong).  Each Telco seems to have their own set of levels which are
conveniently labeled one to three.  There is no correlation that I know of.
SR3580, Level 2, Zone 2 earthquake is not an acceptable level to the west
coast.  Please keep this in mind and if anyone knows of a North American Telco,
whose operations managers will sign up to these levels as defined by SR3580,
please let me know.

Thanks,

Bob

Gary McInturff wrote:

> >From NEBS SR3580
> Level 1 Minimum acceptable required to preclude hazards and degradation.
> Possible applications for Level 1 criteria prototype for trial , limited
> deployment in non-vital services and competitive access provider collocated
> equipment.
> Level 2 Minimum level need to provide limited assurance of equipment
> operability within network. Possible deployement in highly controlled
> environments such as data centers and widespread or long-term of equipment
> performing non-critical network service, where loss of equipment operation
> under environment extremes can be tolerated.
> Level 3 The minimum level of environmental compatibility needed to provide
> maximum assurance of equipment operability. The level 3 criteria provide
> highest assurance of product operability. Possible applications include
> critical network equipment such as digital switches, transport products and
> power systems.
> There is a summary tables and other information that go along with
> this quick blurb, but indeed, you'll have to purchase that specification.
> This is just intended to get you started, if you don't already have this
> information.
> Gary
>
> -Original Message-
> From:   Grant, Tania (Tania) [mailto:tgr...@lucent.com]
> Sent:   Monday, October 04, 1999 7:11 PM
> To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'; 'Price, Ed'
> Subject:RE: NEBS Levels..
>
> George,
>
> Bellcore standard:   SR-3580, Network Equipment - Building
> Systems (NEBS)
> Criteria Levels.
>
> I am afraid you will have to buy it.
>
> Tania Grant,   tgr...@lucent.com 
> Lucent Technologies, Communications Applications Group
>
> --
> From:  Price, Ed [SMTP:ed.pr...@cubic.com]
> Sent:  Monday, October 04, 1999 4:22 PM
> To:  'emc-p...@ieee.org'
> Subject:  FW: NEBS Levels..
>
> Posted for sparaci...@andovercontrols.com:
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: sparaci...@andovercontrols.com
> [SMTP:sparaci...@andovercontrols.com]
> > Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 1:35 PM
> > To:   emc-p...@ieee.org
> > Subject:  NEBS Levels..
> >
> > Hello Group,
> >
> > I should probally direct this question elsewhere, but does
> anyone know
> > where I can get an explaination of the criteria for each
> NEBS level ?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > George
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
> Ed Price
> ed.pr...@cubic.com
> Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
> Cubic Defense Systems
> San Diego, CA.  USA
> 619-505-2780 (Voice)
> 619-505-1502 (Fax)
> Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
> Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis
>
> :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
>
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