Re: Electrical safety of firearms
Hi Peter: > Regardless of any particular view on intent to do harm, intent implies human > action. Similar levels of harm can be accomplished using the items I On this subject, here are a couple of web sites that address behavior as an effective means of achieving safety, and "target" risk as an effective means for engaging in hazardous activity. Best regards, Rich http://www.RyderMarsh.co.uk/ Behavioural Safety Programmes come in many guises but all share one common theme, namely an explicit focus on the key behaviours that lead to accidents and unsafe practices. http://pavlov.psyc.queensu.ca/target/index.html TO TAKE A RISK: to expose oneself to potential loss. [from Latin risicare = to navigate around a cliff or rock] TARGET RISK: the level of risk a person chooses to accept in order to maximize the overall expected benefit from an activity. [Synonyms: accepted, preferred, tolerated, desired risk; set-point risk] HOMEOSTASIS: a regulating process that keeps the outcome close to the target by compensating for disturbing external influences. For example, the human body core temperature is homeostatically maintained within relatively narrow limits despite major variations in the temperature of the surrounding air. [from Greek homeo = matching, similar, and stasis = condition, state of affairs] RISK HOMEOSTASIS: the degree of risk-taking behaviour and the magnitude of loss due to accidents and lifestyle- dependent disease are maintained over time, unless there is a change in the target level of risk. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals
We are planning to switch over to an on-line system for our User Manuals. Does anyone have any experience with using an on-line system? Does the user have the same access as with paper manuals? What are the downsides of such a system? Has anyone dealt with UL and the European Union on their acceptance of on-line manuals? All information is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin marti...@appliedbiosystems.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re:RE: Electrical safety of firearms
forwarded for Scott. Jim Reply Separator Subject:RE: Electrical safety of firearms Author: "Scott Lacey" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 7/27/00 5:02 PM Phil, I think you are probably in somewhat new territory here. In the U.S. I am pretty sure that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (U.S. Treasury) is the sole regulating authority for firearms. If they don't a.p.p.r.o.v.e it, you can't sell it - period. Customs authorities in other markets could probably steer you to the appropriate regulatory bodies. Now, my personal opinion is that something of this nature needs to be rigorously tested for immunity. An accidental discharge caused by any electromagnetic field, permanent magnetic field, or whatever would leave you wide open to liability lawsuits. I would insist on testing to the maximum limits for industrial equipment, with no "wiggle room" allowed. If possible, a mechanical interlock such as a transfer bar should be used so that the firearm cannot be disharged unless the trigger is deliberately pressed. If the goal is simply to reduce the lock time on a firearm used for target shooting, I think you have a good chance of success. You can design the system so that failure renders the firing mechanism inoperable. On the other hand, if this is so-called "smart gun" technology for a handgun that may be used for personal defense, I think you are in a no-win situation already. If a malfunction causes an accidental discharge that injures someone, you are liable. If a malfunction causes a failure to discharge during a defensive situation, you are also liable. The lawyers win either way. No system is totally failure proof. I'm betting that companies who attempt this will pay massive damage awards in the future unless Congress provides some kind of liability protection. Food for thought, Scott Lacey -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of pgodf...@icomply.com Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 3:51 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Electrical safety of firearms Here's one that you feel should have something, just because of the nature of the equipment, but your not quite sure what!! Does anyone have the least inkling of any safety requirements specific to a firearm with an electronic trigger. I am not particularly interested in firearms laws/regulations etc but any requirements that the electronics may fall under. This device will be powered by a 9-volt battery. Thanks in advance of any responses. Phil Godfrey ps. Domestic, EU, Aus and a few more. Thanks Phillip Godfrey - Manager, Product Safety KTL Dallas, Inc. 802, N.Kealy, Lewisville, Texas 75057-3136 Tel : (972) 436-9600 Fax: (972) 436-2667 http://www.ktl.com/ email : pgodf...@icomply.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Medical Device License - Canada
Hello Dick Frobner, If you're considering a medical devices, you may contact Health Canada's Device Notification Section at (613) 957-1909. They should be able to point you in the right direction. Regards, -- = Daniel Kwok Vancouver, BC, Canada Intetron Consulting, Inc. Telephone 604.432.9874 Email dk...@intetron.com "FREE EMC Tips @ our website http://www.intetron.com"; = --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: SEMI F47
Daniel, This is a Facilities standard orginiated by the SEMI organization and deals with Voltage Sag Ride-through capabilty. You can buy this and other standards paper or PDF for $50.00 each at http://www.semi.org/web/wstandards.nsf/ Here is the abstract: SEMI F47-0200 Specification for Semiconductor Processing Equipment Voltage Sag Immunity Semiconductor factories require high levels of power quality due to the sensitivity of equipment and process controls. Semiconductor processing equipment is especially vulnerable to voltage sags. This document defines the voltage sag ride-through capability required for semiconductor processing, metrology, and automated test equipment. The requirements in this international standard were developed to satisfy semiconductor industry needs. While more stringent than existing generic standards, this industry-specific specification is not in conflict with known generic equipment regulations from other regions or generic equipment standards from other organizations. It is the intent of this standard to provide specifications for semiconductor processing equipment that will lead to improved selection criteria for sub-components and improvements in equipment systems design. While it is recognized that in certain extreme cases or for specific functions battery storage devices may be appropriate, it is not the intent of this standard to increase the size or use of battery storage devices provided with equipment. Focus on improvements in equipment component and system design should lead to a reduction or elimination in the use of battery storage devices to achieve equipment reliability during voltage sag events. This document specifies the minimum voltage sag ride-through capability design requirements for equipment used in the semiconductor industry. The expected equipment performance capability is shown graphically on a chart representing voltage sag duration and percent deviation of equipment nominal voltage. Standard evaluation test method references are also included. The primary focus for this specification is semiconductor processing equipment including but not limited to the following tool types: etch equipment (Dry & Wet), film deposition equipment (CVD & PVD), thermal equipment, surface prep and clean, photolithography equipment (Stepper & Tracks), Chemical Mechanical Polishing equipment, Ion Implant equipment, Metrology equipment, and automated test equipment. This specification applies to semiconductor processing equipment to include the equipment mainframe and all subsystems whose electrical power is directly affected by the operation of the equipment's EMO system. Referenced SEMI Standards: SEMI E10 -- Standard for Definition and Measurement of Equipment Reliability, Availability, and Maintainability (RAM), SEMI E51 -- Guide for Typical Facilities Services and Termination Matrix, SEMI F42 -- Test Method for Semiconductor Processing Equipment Voltage Sag Immunity, and SEMI S2 -- Environmental, Health, and Safety Guideline for Semiconductor Manufacturing Equipment -doug = Douglas E. Powell Regulatory Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. 1625 Sharp Point Dr. Ft. Collins, Co 80525 mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com http:\\www.advanced-energy.com\ = -Original Message- From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) [mailto:bigg...@gemischova.ge.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 10:55 AM To: 'Emc-Pstc (E-mail)' Subject: SEMI F47 Has anyone on this list heard of standard SEMI F47? Is there a similar european standard to this? What exactly does the standard deal with? DB > g GE Industrial Systems > ___ > > Daniel Biggs > Test Engineer > Hardware Design Services > > GE Fanuc Automation > PO Box 8106 > Charlottesville, VA 22906 > PH: (804) 978-6946 > Fax: (804) 978-5588 > > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Electrical safety of firearms
Regardless of any particular view on intent to do harm, intent implies human action. Similar levels of harm can be accomplished using the items I mentioned, and a host of others, including a host electrically or pneumatically powered wood and metal working tools. My point was that commonly safety certified equipment is also, "inherently unsafe," and that rationale alone is inadequate and self-serving. A sharpened is lethal, when that is the intent of its use, even if that use is outside the manufacturers' design intent or purchasers' thought at the time of purchase. I believe UL Lists pencil sharpeners. The three-ring binder was used to show that commonly available items in everyones' lives are also, "inherently unsafe." However, used wisely, they are generally not harmful. Peter Other inherently unsafe products: resistive electrical heating elements of stoves and range tops NEMA 5-15 plugs automobiles airplanes water-born transport vessels locomotives -Original Message- From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 1:22 PM To: Tarver, Peter [SC1:4N02:EXCH]; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Electrical safety of firearms None of which are designed to intentionally do harm, for good or bad. Beyond that who wants a Listed three ring binder etc? Gary -Original Message- From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@nortelnetworks.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 9:08 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Electrical safety of firearms Other inherently unsafe products: three-ring binders (mechanical hazard) any pointed writing implement (mechanical hazard) plain old mechanical staplers (mechanical hazard) paperweights (mechanical hazard) pushpins (mechanical hazard) bath tubs and swimming pools (drowning hazard) in-sink garbage disposals (mechanical hazard) refrigerators and freezers (suffocation hazard) Some of which, UL will List. Regards, Peter L. Tarver -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian Rich, I tried to List such a device with UL some time ago and they told me that they could not List because it is inherently unsafe! However, I succeeded in getting TUV GS for the system.
Dealing with "inherently unsafe" products
Peter Tarver and Gary McInturff bring up the topic of "inherently unsafe" products. Peter identifies these products as inherently unsafe: > three-ring binders (mechanical hazard) > any pointed writing implement (mechanical hazard) > plain old mechanical staplers (mechanical hazard) > paperweights (mechanical hazard) > pushpins (mechanical hazard) > bath tubs and swimming pools (drowning hazard) > in-sink garbage disposals (mechanical hazard) > refrigerators and freezers (suffocation hazard) Gary responds: > None of which are designed to intentionally do harm, for good or bad. What is the difference between Peter's example of inherently unsafe products and any electrical product that is plugged into a wall outlet? The electrical product is also inherently unsafe. What is the difference? The way we avoid injury from Peter's example products is through our behavior. We take on a personal responsibility to avoid injury from these kinds of products and situations. (Peter could have added the simple processes of crossing a street or climbing stairs as inherently unsafe.) Our behavior is a process which is learned from being taught, from observation, and from experience. Consider the new-born child. He is fearless. He has no personal responsibility. He is totally dependent on the people around him for his safety (and everything else). We can't monitor him continuously, so we place him in a crib that contains him and prevents him from falling. As the child grows, we teach him or he learns from observation or experience about things and actions that might hurt. We only allow him to cross streets and climb stairs with supervision. We teach him not to touch hot things and other things that might injure him. We teach him how to use tools such as knives and hot-pads in a manner that won't injure him. We continue to monitor his abilities to deal with energy sources until we are satisfied that he can do so without injuring himself or others. At this point, he assumes personal responsibility for his and others' safety with respect to a particular energy source. The process of obtaining a driving license or permit is an example of this learning process. The prospective driver is taught, is provided with opportunities for observation and experience, and then is monitored and tested until we are satisfied that he has assumed sufficient personal responsibility to drive a vehicle without injuring himself or others. Note that all of these inherently unsafe situations are readily detectable and recognizable by mature people. For readily detectable and recognizable unsafe situations, we rely on personal responsibility and behavior for protection against injury. On the other hand, we have insidious unsafe situations such as electric shock. (Indeed, who among us has NOT experienced the unexpected electric shock?) Most people cannot detect a live conductor simply by observation. So, where we cannot, from experience or observation, recognize an unsafe situation, we require the product to provide protection against such unsafe situation. The way we avoid injury from products with insidious unsafe situations is through safeguards that are a part of the product, such that we do not rely on personal detection and personal avoidance behavior. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Inherently Unsafe Products
Gary's list got me to thinking. If I consider my own injuries etc. over the past year, they were due to the following "unsafe" products, conditions, or acts: wood boards (splinters) hammers (hitting fingers) any low overhead structure(banging skull) walking on uneven turf(twisted ankle) dusty wind (objects in eye) exposure to high rpm tools(diminished hearing) cleaning garage or attic (objects falling on head or feet) vehicle repair (multiple hand cuts/bruises snow(shoveling thereof) Let's don't even get into deaths and injuries stemming from the use of alcohol, tobacco, cellphones (while driving), carcinogenic foods or materials,.. When all is said and done, well designed ITE products are about as safe as a plastic comb. George --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Electrical safety of firearms
None of which are designed to intentionally do harm, for good or bad. Beyond that who wants a Listed three ring binder etc? Gary -Original Message- From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@nortelnetworks.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 9:08 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Electrical safety of firearms Other inherently unsafe products: three-ring binders (mechanical hazard) any pointed writing implement (mechanical hazard) plain old mechanical staplers (mechanical hazard) paperweights (mechanical hazard) pushpins (mechanical hazard) bath tubs and swimming pools (drowning hazard) in-sink garbage disposals (mechanical hazard) refrigerators and freezers (suffocation hazard) Some of which, UL will List. Regards, Peter L. Tarver -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian Rich, I tried to List such a device with UL some time ago and they told me that they could not List because it is inherently unsafe! However, I succeeded in getting TUV GS for the system.
Medical Device License - Canada
Good Day Forum Members I have a question in regards to the listing of medical devices under Canada's Therapeutic Products Program (TPP). All medical devices sold and put into use in Canada are required to be licensed. Along with the licensing there is also a fee. The question I have is: Has anyone on this forum had the experience of device licensing and the fee they charge? I'm having no luck corresponding by e-mail or phone with the folks in Canada. If you have had experience please contact me directly at the e-mail address below. I need info on the fee's they charge and how they break them out. Thank you Dick Grobner Compliance Engineering Medical Graphics Corporation 350 Oak Grove Parkway St Paul, MN 55127 651-766-3395 651-484-8941 (fax) dick.grob...@medgraph.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Paint
Hello Bill, RAL is a private German organisation (RAL, Deutsches Institut für Gütesicherung und Kennzeichnung e.V. ), which would translate into 'German Institute for Quality Assurance and Marking'. In their web-site (which is also available in English) http://www.ral-colours.de/ you will find information regarding the coding system. The 4-digit RAL Colours have been the standard for choosing colours for more than 70 years now. At the beginning the colour collection included 40 different colours. Its number has risen to more than 200 today. They also contain safety- and signalling colours. Hope that helps, mit freundlichen Gruessen/ best regards Volker Gasse IBM Germany, Technical Relations/Product Safety, Tel: +49-7031-642-6796, Fax: -6916, e-mail: volker.ga...@de.ibm.com Mail: D3114/7103-91, D-70548 Stuttgart, Germany "Bill Somerfield " on 27.07.2000 13:43:18 Please respond to "Bill Somerfield " To: emc-p...@ieee.org cc:(bcc: Volker Gasse/Germany/IBM) Subject: Paint Group, Is there an international standard for paint color? I've seen RAL , but can't really find what ist stands for? Thank you for your help, Bill Somerfield Bill Somerfield QA/Compliance Manager Elizabeth-Hata International bi...@eliz.com 412-829-7700 FAX 412-829-7330 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Japan
You can obtain a copy of the list from JETRO (Japan External Trade Organization). They do not have a copy available on-line, but they can mail you the list. You want a document entitled "S-Mark System: For Safety of Electrical Applicances and Materials". The JETRO web site is http://www.jetro.org/ I have a PDF copy of this document that I can send if you are interested. It is scanned at low resolution, but it is still legible. Let me know if you would like a copy and I can send it directly. The file is about 430 kB. Ted Eckert Regulatory Compliance Engineer American Power Conversion Corporation teck...@apcc.com The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC nor representing APC's official position on any matter. Please respond to "Russell, Ray" Sent by: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org To: "'IEEE PSTC'" cc: From: "Russell, Ray" @ieee.org on 07/27/2000 10:08 AM Subject: Japan Greetings, I understand that according to Japan's Electrical Appliance and Material Control Law there are 2 "classes" of products, A or B. A type are considered more risky appliances, and require a mandatory approval for the T mark. B items are considered less risky, and do not require the marking. What we have run into is that a regular air compressor is considered a B type appliance, where as if we put an electrical control box on it to control the inflation of a consumer product, then I'm being told by one source it has to be a type A. Is there a clear list or definition of these categories? I was searching the Net for information on Dentori, but have not found any sites. Do you know of any good sites on Dentori? I've already spoke with UL, and they quoted a price to do determine the category, but I think this information should be available somewhere. Thanks for your assistance, Ray Russell Regulatory Compliance Engineer --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Electro-Luminescence (EL) Displays
Looking for any European standards which might cover EL displays. This display would be used in retail sales advertising. EN60950 maybe? Any help appreciated in advance. Don Clayton ESR Engineering --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
[no subject]
Other than the EMC and Low Voltage Directives, does anyone know of any additional directive that would be applicable to a 1/16 DIN panel mounted temperature limit controller with manual reset ? Are there any applicable directives for performance ? Tony Anton (Tony) J. Nikolassy Factory Mutual research 1151 Boston-Providence Tpk. Norwood, MA 02062 Phone: (781)255-4819 FAX:(603)215-0805 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
SEMI F47
Has anyone on this list heard of standard SEMI F47? Is there a similar european standard to this? What exactly does the standard deal with? DB > g GE Industrial Systems > ___ > > Daniel Biggs > Test Engineer > Hardware Design Services > > GE Fanuc Automation > PO Box 8106 > Charlottesville, VA 22906 > PH: (804) 978-6946 > Fax: (804) 978-5588 > > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Electrical safety of firearms
Other inherently unsafe products: three-ring binders (mechanical hazard) any pointed writing implement (mechanical hazard) plain old mechanical staplers (mechanical hazard) paperweights (mechanical hazard) pushpins (mechanical hazard) bath tubs and swimming pools (drowning hazard) in-sink garbage disposals (mechanical hazard) refrigerators and freezers (suffocation hazard) Some of which, UL will List. Regards, Peter L. Tarver -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian Rich, I tried to List such a device with UL some time ago and they told me that they could not List because it is inherently unsafe! However, I succeeded in getting TUV GS for the system.
Re:Electrical safety of firearms
Don't forget about the USS Forestal Or as us ex-Navy people refer toher as, The USS Forest Fire). The rocket that was launched on deck, resulting in massive damage to the ship and great loss of life was a result of EMI. tony.fi...@quester.com (Tony Firth) on 07/26/2000 05:59:37 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Dan Mitchell/CondorDC) Subject: Re:Electrical safety of firearms Phil, Would be very concerned about EMC. In the past there have been many accidental explosions in the mining/quarrying industries from false fuse triggering from vehicular or hand-held radios. Tony Firth, Elect. Eng., Quester Technology Inc.,Fremont,CA Original Message-- Phil Godfrey wrote: >Does anyone have the least inkling of any safety requirements specific >to a firearm with an electronic trigger... --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Paint
Bill: I know here in the USA that OSHA has a certain palette of standard hues. A couple of years ago, I got a bargain on some high-quality enamel paint. Now, almost everything that doesn't move in my lab is OSHA Green. (Nobody even wants to steal my lab carts now.) :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-) Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-) > -Original Message- > From: Bill Somerfield [mailto:bi...@eliz.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:43 AM > To: emc-p...@ieee.org > Subject: Paint > > > > Group, > > Is there an international standard for paint color? I've seen > RAL , but can't really find what ist stands for? > > Thank you for your help, > Bill Somerfield > > Bill Somerfield > QA/Compliance Manager > Elizabeth-Hata International > bi...@eliz.com > 412-829-7700 > FAX 412-829-7330 > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Electrical safety of firearms
I understood the original query to mean that an "electronic trigger" was actually an "electronic safety" system acting as a control of the mechanical firing mechanism, and not the actual firing mechanism. It would then appear that the failure modes of the "electronic safety" would be: 1. Failure to allow mechanical firing mechanism to work after proper authorization. 2. Failure to prevent mechanical firing mechanism to work after improper (or no) authorization. A safety system should "fail safe", but the safe condition depends on your viewpoint; i.e., which end of the weapon are you on? :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-) Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-) > -Original Message- > From: tony.fi...@quester.com [mailto:tony.fi...@quester.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 6:00 PM > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: Re:Electrical safety of firearms > > > > Phil, > > Would be very concerned about EMC. In the past there have > been many accidental > explosions in the mining/quarrying industries from false fuse > triggering from > vehicular or hand-held radios. > > Tony Firth, Elect. Eng., > Quester Technology Inc.,Fremont,CA > > Original Message-- > Phil Godfrey wrote: > > > >Does anyone have the least inkling of any safety > requirements specific >to > a firearm with an electronic trigger... > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re[2]: EU Requirements for PSTN Equipment
forwarding for Allan.. Reply Separator Subject:Re: EU Requirements for PSTN Equipment Author: "Allan G. Carr" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 7/27/00 2:44 PM Don & Robert There is only one requirement for non-radio PSTN Telecommunications Terminal Equipment (TTE) designated by publication in the EC OJ (European Community Official Journal) and that is:- COMMISSION DECISION of 26 May 2000 concerning the request by France to maintain pursuant to Article 18(3)of Directive 1999/5/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council (the "R&TTE Directive") a requirement for telecommunications terminal equipment intended for connection to the analogue public switched telephone network of France Telecom (2000/373/EC) This requires limiting of the line current for TTE used in France. There are no other Harmonized PSTN Standards so you can self-declare that you comply with all the applicable specifications under the R&TTE Directive (which is NONE.!) unless you are selling into France. Allan AGC-Tel Consultants Ltd European Telecommunications Approvals Consultant ___ In article <3969db19.b0a6b...@cadence.com>, Don Moncion writes > >from 1999/5/EC article 10; > >"3. Telecommunications terminal equipment which does not make use of the >spectrum allocated to terrestrial/space radio communication and receiving parts >of radio equipment shall be subject to the procedures described in any one of >Annexes II, IV or V at the choice of the manufacturer." > >suggest you read the relevant annexes of R&TTE directive to determine best >approach > >list of Harmonized Standards, Notified Bodies and copy of directive are >available at European Union website http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/rtte/ > >regards, > >Don Moncion >Director Eng Services >Cadence Design Systems > >"Loop, Robert" wrote: > >> Group: >> >> I need detailed information on (a) which standards would apply to test a >> switching device (similar to a PBX machine) that connects to the PSTN on a >> customer site under the R & TTE Directive (b) the process by which a >> manufacturer contacts a Notified Body in the EU for approval (c) where I can >> locate a list of Notified Bodies for said directive (d) is the manufacturer >> required to have their QA, manufacturing and design processes approved to EN >> 29003? >> >> My underlying assumption is that the product, which uses a cross-connect >> robot, would fall under the EMC, LVD and Machinery Directives also. My >> knowledge of the R & TTE Directive is limited. >> >> As always, one cannot be an expert in everything. My thanks to those who >> respond in advance. >> >> Sincerely, >> Robert Loop >> Engineering Supervisor >> Wyle Laboratories >> Product Safety >> ph - (256) 837-4411 x313 >> fax- (256) 721-0144 >> e-mail: rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com >> >> --- >> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety >> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. >> >> To cancel your subscription, send mail to: >> majord...@ieee.org >> with the single line: >> unsubscribe emc-pstc >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com >> Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > >--- >This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety >Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > >To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org >with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > >For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > >For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > -- Allan G.Carr B.Sc.(Elec.Eng) AMIEE | AGC-Tel Consultants Ltd Telecommunications Consultant | Tel: +44(0)141-956-2506 European Approvals Specialist | Fax: +44(0)141-956-5347 62 Crawford Road, Milngavie | Voice Mail: +44(0)1252-30-3062 Glasgow, G62 7LF, Scotland | http://www.agctel.co.uk --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Paint
RAL colour standards offer a Worldwide range of standards, both from the Classic and the RAL design system, accepted and recognised by designers and all industries... www.ralcolours.co.uk Beyond that there are BS colour standards, US Federal paint standards, Pantone (normally print/screen) -Original Message- From: Bill Somerfield [mailto:bi...@eliz.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 12:43 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Paint Group, Is there an international standard for paint color? I've seen RAL , but can't really find what ist stands for? Thank you for your help, Bill Somerfield Bill Somerfield QA/Compliance Manager Elizabeth-Hata International bi...@eliz.com 412-829-7700 FAX 412-829-7330 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Japan
Greetings, I understand that according to Japan's Electrical Appliance and Material Control Law there are 2 "classes" of products, A or B. A type are considered more risky appliances, and require a mandatory approval for the T mark. B items are considered less risky, and do not require the marking. What we have run into is that a regular air compressor is considered a B type appliance, where as if we put an electrical control box on it to control the inflation of a consumer product, then I'm being told by one source it has to be a type A. Is there a clear list or definition of these categories? I was searching the Net for information on Dentori, but have not found any sites. Do you know of any good sites on Dentori? I've already spoke with UL, and they quoted a price to do determine the category, but I think this information should be available somewhere. Thanks for your assistance, Ray Russell Regulatory Compliance Engineer --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: ITE or ISM
You're probably correct but it sounds like you could be correct without a customer. We all select components based upon our needs. The component that most meets those needs, obviously, is the one that gets selected first. If no other choice exists then I would look at what COULD be made useful. From those choices I would begin selecting from those folks that would agree to have it covered under the standard I needed. This is not laziness its just pragmatic. Who is going to know more about the product and have the needed documentation, second source vendors for critical parts, trace layouts, voltage maps, or whatever else might be necessary for the evaluation. Trying to work through a vendor to get information from them adds significant time, effort and confusion to the process. After it all gets done you may then be locked contractually into providing the PCB exactly as built when investigated. That can limit your ability to add second sources, board revisions, or even cost reduction, and you'll end up with a non-standard part in your system as you implement those kinds of changes and are forced to change part numbers rather than simple rev changes. You might want to consider performing the evaluation while charging the customer a NRE charge to cover the time and cost. You even end up with a wider product range than you had before. If the volume isn't there or any other reason you don't want to sell the board, then I would stick with your current position. Gary -Original Message- From: William D'Orazio [mailto:dora...@cae.ca] Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 4:05 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:ITE or ISM Hi everyone, I was wondering if I have a PCB that could be used in a medical device as well as in a PC does the board have to be tested to both standards. I believe that it has to be tested only for ITE equipment, and the manufacturer of the ISM device would have to comply to the iSM standard. Is this correct? Thanks in advance, William D'Orazio CAE Electronics Ltd. Electrical System Designer Phone: (514) 341-2000 (X4555) Fax: (514)340-5552 Email: dora...@cae.ca --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re[2]: Paint --> RAL
forwarding for Harald.. Reply Separator Subject:Re: Paint --> RAL Author: Harald Spieker List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 7/27/00 3:15 PM Hi Bill, group! RAL (Reichsausschuss fuer Lieferbedingungen) is an old (founded 1925) german organisation for standards. It has a successor, which is still in charge of the colours. You can find a link on the web (english and german). Here you can order colour tables, never done it on my own, but heard they aren't a bargain: http://www.ral-colours.de/ On another page, you can view the colours directly, or at least get an idea how the colours approximately look like, with the disadvantage that it has no english description, but I think you should be able to use it (select a colour number and press "Farbwerte ermitteln"): http://www.dtpstudio.de/ral-anfrage-840.htm Hope that helps, Harald Spieker Institute for Electromagnetic Compatibility Technical University Braunschweig / Germany --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Electrical safety of firearms
I think if ther is an electronic circuit that activates the triggering device and that circuit lacks EMC , it has the potential to malfunction. If the electronic ciruit is the one to commence the action of firing without any electrical interface then it had better perform its intended funtion in the presence of strong radiated fiields. I didn't read EED into what Phil mentioned and I would certainly agree that ESD needs consideration. I would expect too that the intended use may have a bearing on what safety measures are imperative. Ralph Cameron EMC Consultant for Suppression of Consumer Electronics (After sale) - Original Message - From: "Ken Javor" To: "Ralph Cameron" ; ; Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 12:31 AM Subject: Re: Electrical safety of firearms > I think both Mr. Firth and Mr. Cameron are confusing ordnance activated by > an electro-explosive device (EED) with ordinary bullets. In the case of an > EED, it is very important to not only provide safe and arm capability, but > also to ensure that field-to-wire coupling does not inadvertently inject > enough electrical energy to set off the EED. This concern is addressed in > such documents as MIL-STD-1385, MIL-STD-1512, MIL-E-6051D and MIL-STD-464. > Together, these standards define no-fire and all-fire levels, and EMC safety > margins X dB below the no-fire level. > > But none of this would apply to a trigger, hammer and powder-loaded > cartridge based system. There is no electrical interface to the cartridge, > hence no need for safety margins, etc. I assume that the only difference > between the electronic trigger and a conventional trigger is that there is > no mechanical linkage between trigger and hammer - the trigger applies > electrical potential to a solenoid, which ejects a hammer substitute into > the cartridge base. > > I would want a solenoid that operated at a high enough potential and drew > enough current that the field-to-wire pickup from even the strongest > possible nearby field would be insufficient to energize the solenoid. And > the solenoid would require several milliseconds of applied power, so that a > short duration pulse (ESD, EFT) could not trip the hammer. Any additional > safety interlock would be a mechanical switch. If you get fancy and start > putting 3 or 5 Volt logic in this thing, then you open yourself up to ESD > and any number of other problems. > > In today's atmosphere where even ordinary firearms are viewed as defective > products, imagine the ruckus some lawyer could cause with a twenty five year > old handgun in which an old battery corroded and caused enough degradation > that the gun malfunctioned and fired without a pull of the trigger. It > would matter not that the gun had been sold and resold or stolen and resold. > In fact, they could make the case that the "nth" owner is less likely to > understand the thing than the original buyer. > > It's not paranoia if they really are following you... > > > -- > >From: "Ralph Cameron" > >To: , > >Subject: Re: Electrical safety of firearms > >Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000, 8:40 PM > > > > > > > Phil: > > > > I would hope that the electronic trigger cisrcuit has been designed with EMC > > in mind. Not like the Toronado aircraft that had its munitions explode > > whennflying too close to a local European trasnmitter. > > > > Ralph Cameron > > EMC Consultant for Suppression of Consumer Electronics > > ( After Sale). > > > > - Original Message - > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 3:50 PM > > Subject: Electrical safety of firearms > > > > > >> > >> Here's one that you feel should have something, just because of the nature > >> of the equipment, but your not quite sure what!! > >> > >> Does anyone have the least inkling of any safety requirements specific to > > a > >> firearm with an electronic trigger. I am not particularly interested in > >> firearms laws/regulations etc but any requirements that the electronics > > may > >> fall under. This device will be powered by a 9-volt battery. > >> > >> Thanks in advance of any responses. > >> > >> Phil Godfrey > >> > >> ps. Domestic, EU, Aus and a few more. Thanks > >> > >> Phillip Godfrey - Manager, Product Safety > >> KTL Dallas, Inc. > >> 802, N.Kealy, > >> Lewisville, > >> Texas 75057-3136 > >> > >> Tel : (972) 436-9600 > >> Fax: (972) 436-2667 > >> http://www.ktl.com/ > >> > >> email : pgodf...@icomply.com > >> > >> > >> --- > >> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > >> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > >> > >> To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > >> majord...@ieee.org > >> with the single line: > >> unsubscribe emc-pstc > >> > >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: > >> Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > >> Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > >> > >> For policy questions, send mail to: > >> Richard Nute:
Re: Paint
What type of standard are you looking for? If you are looking for standardized colors and color matching, the Pantone Matching System (PMS) has become an industry standard. If you reference a specific PMS color you can expect printers and paint suppliers to reasonably match that color. More information can be found at the Pantone web site. http://www.pantone.com/ Ted Eckert Regulatory Compliance Engineer American Power Conversion Corporation teck...@apcc.com The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC nor representing APC's official position on any matter. Please respond to "Bill Somerfield " Sent by: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org To: emc-p...@ieee.org cc: From: "Bill Somerfield " @ieee.org on 07/27/2000 06:43 AM Subject: Paint Group, Is there an international standard for paint color? I've seen RAL , but can't really find what ist stands for? Thank you for your help, Bill Somerfield Bill Somerfield QA/Compliance Manager Elizabeth-Hata International bi...@eliz.com 412-829-7700 FAX 412-829-7330 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Electrical safety of firearms
Ralph, I was the EMC Trials Engineer for Tornado ADV, and know the Tornado IDS field trial engineer well. I was unaware of this incident... Could you enlighten me more. Thanks, Derek Walton --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Paint
Group, Is there an international standard for paint color? I've seen RAL , but can't really find what ist stands for? Thank you for your help, Bill Somerfield Bill Somerfield QA/Compliance Manager Elizabeth-Hata International bi...@eliz.com 412-829-7700 FAX 412-829-7330 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Electrical safety of firearms
Rich, I tried to List such a device with UL some time ago and they told me that they could not List because it is inherently unsafe! However, I succeeded in getting TUV GS for the system. At 13:43 26/07/2000 -0700, Rich Nute wrote: > > > > >Hi Phil: > > >> Does anyone have the least inkling of any safety requirements specific to a >> firearm with an electronic trigger. I am not particularly interested in >> firearms laws/regulations etc but any requirements that the electronics may >> fall under. This device will be powered by a 9-volt battery. > >It seems to me that the worst-case situation >is that of triggering at some time other than >the commanded time. > >The electronic trigger better be "fail-safe." > >That is, the design should accomodate any component >failure -- open, short, wrong value -- without >triggering. > >This is not as difficult as it sounds. I have >contributed to such a design which resulted in a >patent. > >In addition, it probably should be designed such >that trigger actuation requires two, independent >(simultaneous or sequential) acts on the part of >the operator, e.g., "ready," and "fire." > >I would tend to apply safety "interlock" concepts. >The trigger has two modes, "safe" and "operate." >The "safe" mode should be protected as would an >interlock circuit. > > >Regards, >Rich > > > > >--- >This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety >Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > >To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org >with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > >For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > >For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Electrical safety of firearms
I think both Mr. Firth and Mr. Cameron are confusing ordnance activated by an electro-explosive device (EED) with ordinary bullets. In the case of an EED, it is very important to not only provide safe and arm capability, but also to ensure that field-to-wire coupling does not inadvertently inject enough electrical energy to set off the EED. This concern is addressed in such documents as MIL-STD-1385, MIL-STD-1512, MIL-E-6051D and MIL-STD-464. Together, these standards define no-fire and all-fire levels, and EMC safety margins X dB below the no-fire level. But none of this would apply to a trigger, hammer and powder-loaded cartridge based system. There is no electrical interface to the cartridge, hence no need for safety margins, etc. I assume that the only difference between the electronic trigger and a conventional trigger is that there is no mechanical linkage between trigger and hammer - the trigger applies electrical potential to a solenoid, which ejects a hammer substitute into the cartridge base. I would want a solenoid that operated at a high enough potential and drew enough current that the field-to-wire pickup from even the strongest possible nearby field would be insufficient to energize the solenoid. And the solenoid would require several milliseconds of applied power, so that a short duration pulse (ESD, EFT) could not trip the hammer. Any additional safety interlock would be a mechanical switch. If you get fancy and start putting 3 or 5 Volt logic in this thing, then you open yourself up to ESD and any number of other problems. In today's atmosphere where even ordinary firearms are viewed as defective products, imagine the ruckus some lawyer could cause with a twenty five year old handgun in which an old battery corroded and caused enough degradation that the gun malfunctioned and fired without a pull of the trigger. It would matter not that the gun had been sold and resold or stolen and resold. In fact, they could make the case that the "nth" owner is less likely to understand the thing than the original buyer. It's not paranoia if they really are following you... -- >From: "Ralph Cameron" >To: , >Subject: Re: Electrical safety of firearms >Date: Wed, Jul 26, 2000, 8:40 PM > > > Phil: > > I would hope that the electronic trigger cisrcuit has been designed with EMC > in mind. Not like the Toronado aircraft that had its munitions explode > whennflying too close to a local European trasnmitter. > > Ralph Cameron > EMC Consultant for Suppression of Consumer Electronics > ( After Sale). > > - Original Message - > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 3:50 PM > Subject: Electrical safety of firearms > > >> >> Here's one that you feel should have something, just because of the nature >> of the equipment, but your not quite sure what!! >> >> Does anyone have the least inkling of any safety requirements specific to > a >> firearm with an electronic trigger. I am not particularly interested in >> firearms laws/regulations etc but any requirements that the electronics > may >> fall under. This device will be powered by a 9-volt battery. >> >> Thanks in advance of any responses. >> >> Phil Godfrey >> >> ps. Domestic, EU, Aus and a few more. Thanks >> >> Phillip Godfrey - Manager, Product Safety >> KTL Dallas, Inc. >> 802, N.Kealy, >> Lewisville, >> Texas 75057-3136 >> >> Tel : (972) 436-9600 >> Fax: (972) 436-2667 >> http://www.ktl.com/ >> >> email : pgodf...@icomply.com >> >> >> --- >> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety >> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. >> >> To cancel your subscription, send mail to: >> majord...@ieee.org >> with the single line: >> unsubscribe emc-pstc >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com >> Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org >> >> >> > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...
Re: Electrical safety of firearms
Phil: I would hope that the electronic trigger cisrcuit has been designed with EMC in mind. Not like the Toronado aircraft that had its munitions explode whennflying too close to a local European trasnmitter. Ralph Cameron EMC Consultant for Suppression of Consumer Electronics ( After Sale). - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 3:50 PM Subject: Electrical safety of firearms > > Here's one that you feel should have something, just because of the nature > of the equipment, but your not quite sure what!! > > Does anyone have the least inkling of any safety requirements specific to a > firearm with an electronic trigger. I am not particularly interested in > firearms laws/regulations etc but any requirements that the electronics may > fall under. This device will be powered by a 9-volt battery. > > Thanks in advance of any responses. > > Phil Godfrey > > ps. Domestic, EU, Aus and a few more. Thanks > > Phillip Godfrey - Manager, Product Safety > KTL Dallas, Inc. > 802, N.Kealy, > Lewisville, > Texas 75057-3136 > > Tel : (972) 436-9600 > Fax: (972) 436-2667 > http://www.ktl.com/ > > email : pgodf...@icomply.com > > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com > Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > > --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re:Electrical safety of firearms
Phil, Would be very concerned about EMC. In the past there have been many accidental explosions in the mining/quarrying industries from false fuse triggering from vehicular or hand-held radios. Tony Firth, Elect. Eng., Quester Technology Inc.,Fremont,CA Original Message-- Phil Godfrey wrote: >Does anyone have the least inkling of any safety requirements specific >to a firearm with an electronic trigger... --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Rack populating??-Rationalize it !!
Hi again Tania, I think from a CE point of view it's clear. If a customer is told he can do it ( or conversely you don't say it can't be done ), then you have to pass, period. An Englishman's 2 cents worth;-) Derek Walton --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
