RE: OATS Turntable Canopy
Okay, you explain to my wife just what the heck I'm doing to her oven now. She's still mad about the time I dried off my running shorts. (It evaporates the water very well, but it overheats the nylon stitching and scorches the heck out of the seams.) Gary -Original Message- From: Scott Lacey [mailto:sco...@world.std.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 1:25 PM To: Lichtenstein, Ross Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: OATS Turntable Canopy Richard, Before using PVC pipe, I would suggest testing it to see if it absorbs RF (Some do!). Place a small sample in a microwave oven, along with a mug of water to load the oven. If the PVC sample gets significantly warm after 1 minute try another type. Some PVC pipes have fillers added. Metallic fillings will cause problems. (A neat trick from the crystal radio builders, who can't tolerate losses in PVC coil forms.) Scott Lacey -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Lichtenstein, Ross Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 4:08 PM To: wo...@sensormatic.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: OATS Turntable Canopy Richard, I think that if I were trying to make an inexpensive environmental cover for an OATS turn-table, I would consider using PVC plastic pipe and fittings, similar to what you may have seen is used to fabricate patio furniture. I think you can find all the fittings necessary to build a simple framework, and then just cover whatever portion of it you want with black plastic builders film, or those inexpensive blue plastic tarps found in many discount stores (you may need to cut out the metal grommets on the tarps and replace them with any of several available plastic types. Good luck, Ross -Original Message- From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lexmark.com] Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 11:53 AM To: wo...@sensormatic.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: OATS Turntable Canopy Richard, Last year at the beach, I bought one of those cheap (er, inexpensive) gazebo-like canopies. It came with lots of metal tubes which had to be put together to form the upper canopy support and the legs. It was about 8' x 8' and 6' tall. However, if one replaced the metal tubes with wooden dowel material, something like this would provide a cheap shelter. The corners usually come with a means to peg into the ground, given the winds at a typical beach. For this you might need to find some plastic or other non-conductive tent pegs. Just a thought. George woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com on 12/22/2000 11:00:19 AM Please respond to woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: OATS Turntable Canopy I want to erect a simple, low cost removable canopy over our turntable at our OATS to protect the EUT from light rain and our Florida sun. Is anyone aware of an off-the-shelf option? Has anyone constructed a simple canopy and would like to share their design and/or experience (good and bad)? Richard Woods --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators:
RE: OATS Turntable Canopy
Richard, Before using PVC pipe, I would suggest testing it to see if it absorbs RF (Some do!). Place a small sample in a microwave oven, along with a mug of water to load the oven. If the PVC sample gets significantly warm after 1 minute try another type. Some PVC pipes have fillers added. Metallic fillings will cause problems. (A neat trick from the crystal radio builders, who can't tolerate losses in PVC coil forms.) Scott Lacey -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Lichtenstein, Ross Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 4:08 PM To: wo...@sensormatic.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: OATS Turntable Canopy Richard, I think that if I were trying to make an inexpensive environmental cover for an OATS turn-table, I would consider using PVC plastic pipe and fittings, similar to what you may have seen is used to fabricate patio furniture. I think you can find all the fittings necessary to build a simple framework, and then just cover whatever portion of it you want with black plastic builders film, or those inexpensive blue plastic tarps found in many discount stores (you may need to cut out the metal grommets on the tarps and replace them with any of several available plastic types. Good luck, Ross -Original Message- From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lexmark.com] Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 11:53 AM To: wo...@sensormatic.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: OATS Turntable Canopy Richard, Last year at the beach, I bought one of those cheap (er, inexpensive) gazebo-like canopies. It came with lots of metal tubes which had to be put together to form the upper canopy support and the legs. It was about 8' x 8' and 6' tall. However, if one replaced the metal tubes with wooden dowel material, something like this would provide a cheap shelter. The corners usually come with a means to peg into the ground, given the winds at a typical beach. For this you might need to find some plastic or other non-conductive tent pegs. Just a thought. George woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com on 12/22/2000 11:00:19 AM Please respond to woods%sensormatic@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: OATS Turntable Canopy I want to erect a simple, low cost removable canopy over our turntable at our OATS to protect the EUT from light rain and our Florida sun. Is anyone aware of an off-the-shelf option? Has anyone constructed a simple canopy and would like to share their design and/or experience (good and bad)? Richard Woods --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Off Topic: Navidad Virus
Hello EMC gods, Just an update, my US Midwestern based company got nailed with another traveling email worm this last week. Navidad is running rampant between Midwestern based corporations right now; it shows up as an attachment named navidad.exe. From observation I can tell you it is much like the I love you virus that went around a while back, in that it sends itself out along your contact list. Now this one seems a little more voracious in how it goes about this, it seems it uses email you have already received, and sends it to your contact list, plus this attachment. Not sure what damage it does to your file structure, and I hope I don't find out. Just don't execute the attachment and you will be fine. You will find this email is virus/worm free. :) -Douglas Best Compliance Technician --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Fwd: IEC 60950 - ITE safety testing
Forwarding Test Equipment Reply for all who may need a source: David Gaffney states Dear Al, Thanks for forwarding the inquiry for Product Safety Test Equipment. Our manufacturing calibration of this specialized equipment can save manufacturers an enormous amount of resources/time (vs. attempting to build per the Standards). We recently upgraded our sales staff to better serve customer needs, and would like the opportunity to quote any equipment requirements you have. You can check out our web site at www.productsafet.com for information about our product line. Please direct any inquirys to: Dave Gaffney / E.D. D. Phone : (919) 469 - 9434. Fax : (919) 469 - 5743. E-mail : dav...@productsafet.com Thank you and best wishes for the holiday season! Dave Gaffney --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Surge Protection
Hi to all, I'm concern about designing a proper protection from Surges, applies on ports for indoor signal lines (E1, Ethernet) at telecommunication centers. According to ETSI EN 300 386 a surge of 1.2/50 us, 0.5 kV shell be applied between Tip Ring. Because of lack in space on the PWB we can't put the overvoltage protector (sidactor, TVS) isolation transformer and ... close to the connector were we applying the surge. My questions are: 1. Can I locate only the Sidactor close as possible to the connector, while the isolation transformer is about 45 cm ahead ? 2. Can the trace width after the sidactor, till the transformer, be thin as 5 mills? Thank you, Zohar (Jana) Zosmanovich Compliance Engineer, RADWIN ltd. 34 Habarzel St., Tel Aviv 69710, Israel Tel.: 972-3-7666735 ; Fax: 972-3-7657535 Email: mailto:zohar_zosmanov...@radwin.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
FW: Luminaire Controller to Save Energy
-Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Peter Merguerian Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:11 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Luminaire Controller to Save Energy Dear All, I am trying to search for safety standards to investigate a luminaire dital controller for use with all types of road lamps to save energy. The 3-phase controller is located within an outdoor environmental enclosure and has RS232 and RS485 interface. Is IEC/EN 60 1010 a good standard to use for safety? Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Doubt with conducted emissions measurement
Hi Brent, Specifically NOT meaning to argue, but only in pursuit of the TRUTH, isn't the 10 uF feedthrough cap a perfectly well-defined source impedance above, say 15/20 kHz, where the old MIL-STD-461A/B/C CE03 limit started? Which is not to say that the current measurement is preferred, but what makes a LISN more consistent? The new MIL-STD-462D and -461E cites the fact that a LISN is more representative of a real world bus impedance, and therefore a filter designed to work with a LISN works similarly with the real bus. But that is not a testability issue at all. Respectfully, Ken Javor -- From: Brent G DeWitt bdew...@ix.netcom.com To: 'Ken Javor' ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, 'Praveen Rao' p...@tennyson.com.au, 'Muriel Bittencourt de Liz' mur...@grucad.ufsc.br Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Doubt with conducted emissions measurement Date: Tue, Dec 26, 2000, 11:48 PM Hi Ken, After twenty years or so of EMC testing, I find myself more often using the word consistent rather than accurate. This is exactly the issue of n ohm LISNs versus voltage or current probes. Current probes and voltage probes are certainly as accurate as a LISN, but they leave in doubt what source impedance the system was working into. The selection of 50 ohms is certainly debatable, especially in light of the 150 ohm specification for CDNs, and I won't even attempt to defend the number. The key is that, when we can't hope to define what's right, we can at least attempt to define consistency. Best regards sir, Brent DeWitt -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ken Javor Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 7:56 PM To: Praveen Rao; 'Muriel Bittencourt de Liz' Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Doubt with conducted emissions measurement 2) Why does Mr., Rao (or anyone else) feel that the LISN-based measurement is more accurate than a current probe measurement? I can see pros and cons to each, myself. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Doubt with conducted emissions measurement
Hi Ken, After twenty years or so of EMC testing, I find myself more often using the word consistent rather than accurate. This is exactly the issue of n ohm LISNs versus voltage or current probes. Current probes and voltage probes are certainly as accurate as a LISN, but they leave in doubt what source impedance the system was working into. The selection of 50 ohms is certainly debatable, especially in light of the 150 ohm specification for CDNs, and I won't even attempt to defend the number. The key is that, when we can't hope to define what's right, we can at least attempt to define consistency. Best regards sir, Brent DeWitt -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ken Javor Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 7:56 PM To: Praveen Rao; 'Muriel Bittencourt de Liz' Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Doubt with conducted emissions measurement 2) Why does Mr., Rao (or anyone else) feel that the LISN-based measurement is more accurate than a current probe measurement? I can see pros and cons to each, myself. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Doubt with conducted emissions measurement
I disagree with a few statements made herein. Some differences are factual, but I am interested in general response on my last issue. 1) The military discarded the 5 uH LISN a long time ago. Commercial aerospace still uses it. In 1993 military adopted 50 uH LISN, essentially same as CISPR. 2) Why does Mr., Rao (or anyone else) feel that the LISN-based measurement is more accurate than a current probe measurement? I can see pros and cons to each, myself. -- From: Praveen Rao p...@tennyson.com.au To: 'Muriel Bittencourt de Liz' mur...@grucad.ufsc.br Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Doubt with conducted emissions measurement Date: Tue, Dec 26, 2000, 5:26 PM Hi Muriel and group, Hope you all had a good Christmas. Yes, As Chris mentions, there can be problems with coupling/de-coupling networks. A classic example is the T-ISNs for conducted emissions on telecommunication lines as per the new EN55022 : 1998 The mains LISN however causing problems is not that common. For Mil Stds tests current probes are normally used, but only for a few type of tests (like DC and other leads), where the de-coupling device is still a LISN or a 10 micro Farad feed through Capacitor. Mains supply units are still tested with LISNs. But these are 5 micro henry LISNs. And the test set ups are quite different. The LISN tests are more reliable and repeatable than the current probe tests. Happy New Year. The real new Millenium. Praveen rao -Original Message- From: Muriel Bittencourt de Liz [mailto:mur...@grucad.ufsc.br] Sent: Saturday, 23 December 2000 3:05 AM To: Lista de EMC da IEEE Subject: Doubt with conducted emissions measurement Hello Group! First of all, I wish a merry christmas and a happy new year for the list members. Second, I'd like to solve a doubt. It concerns the methodology of conducted emissions tests. Let's suppose a power electronic equipment (static converter) that has a boost converter in the entrance that's used for power factor correction (PFC). When I make a conducted emissions test, I plug the converter in a LISN, then I plug the LISN in the outlet, this way (the classical way): Equipment = LISN = Outlet (Mains) Well, the LISN consists of a RLC network that has the purposes of: - prevent that external interference from the mains contaminate the measurement - create a stabilized impedance (50 ohms) in the frequency range of interest (150kHz-30MHz) to make results repeatable, from site to site. Ok, what I've said until here is well known and is present in every book about this subject of EMC. My doubt is this: The LISN can't interfere in the functional operation of the converter? Things like resonance, extra ripple can't occur? And, imagining the worst scenario, can the LISN make my equipment not work according to what's expected? Another thing I was thinking about is the fact that the military tests os conducted emissions are done with a probe, and not using a LISN. I'm very curious about this subject because I was asked about this question and I became very surprised, because I have never thought about this. We are, generally, so interested in results that we forget to ask the basic questions sometimes. Well, I think that's all. Thanks in advance for those who can help me. Best Regards Eng. Muriel Bittencourt de Liz EMC Testing and Troubleshooting Group of Conception and Analysis of Electromagnetic Devices Federal University at Santa Catarina Florianópolis, SC, Brazil --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher:
Re: Spacings Issue
Hi Ed: First of all the floating secondary ground (if not connected directly to earth) should be treated as part of the secondary circuit which in many cases will require reinforced insulation to the primary circuit according to the working voltage measured. There are two issues here: (1) Is the secondary circuit, pole-to-pole, a hazardous voltage? (2) Is one pole of the secondary circuit accessible? With respect to (1): In this case, see my paper: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/tech-spk.htm This paper describes how to achieve protection against electric shock due to the voltage of the secondary circuit. With respect to (2): In this case, protection against electric shock *from the mains* must be provided by reinforced insulation (or equivalent) between the primary and secondary. Next, in most applications, the secondary circuitry can be cap coupled to earth ground and does not require basic insulation spacings for a primary circuit. Agreed -- PROVIDED at least basic insulation is between the mains and the secondary circuit. If not, then the capacitor from the secondary to ground must be a Y cap. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Spacings Issue
Hi Ken: See my paper on floating circuits in the Product Safety Newsletter: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/tech-spk.htm This should answer all your questions. If not, please get back to me, and I'll answer any additional questions you may have. Best regards, Rich ps: Provide a copy to your certification houses. Hello Group, A circuit uses a floating ground in the secondary, and caps are used for protection from the secondary outputs to earth ground. The question is, under spacings requirements, would the secondary have to meet the high voltage requirements for spacings for primaries due to this earth ground. A few agencies have expressed desires to short the primary to secondary and require the the secondary to meet primary voltage spacings to this earth ground trace. Any help would be greatly appreciated. And thanks again for all your opinions Thanks, Ken Matsuda --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
