RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS

[Gary McInturff]

You are aware, I presume, that higher limits already exist in the US. Its clock 
rate deterministic. I don't have the section number in front of me, but it has 
been published for quite some time in the US. I couldn't tell from your 
question whether or not you were CISPR concentric or FCC
Gary

-Original Message-
From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 8:22 AM
To: 'Gordon,Ian'; 'IEEE EMC & SAFETY PSTC'
Subject: RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS



Ian,

Work is progressing in CISPR SC I to amend CISPR 22 to have limits to as
high as 18 GHz.  This will not happen overnight, however.  A committee draft
(CD) document is out for comment within the national committees.  I expect
that it will be a hot topic of discussion at the SC I meetings in
Christchurch, New Zealand in late September.  From that meeting there will
likely be a committee draft for vote (CDV) that will come out for a 5 month
voting period.  If it passes, we will be discussing the comments at the SC I
meeting in South Korea next year.  After than, the final draft international
standard (FDIS) document will go out for vote (another 5 month period).  If
that passes, the changes will be implemented in the next amendment or full
edition of CISPR 22.  Confused?  The bottom line is that, assuming
everything goes smoothly for the current proposal (and we've already voted
down one FDIS), 2004 is the earliest that a change to CISPR 22 could be
published.  Then you would be looking at some time before CENELEC put out
their new version of EN 55022:1998 and then a 2 year transition period would
start.  2006 at the earliest.

There are no proposals to increase the frequency range for radiated immunity
tests in CISPR 24 at this time.

Keep in mind that these standards apply to ITE.  They do not apply to other
product families.  

Hope this helps.  Keep in mind that for the U.S. you may already have to
test radiated emissions to as high as 40 GHz, depending upon the maximum
clock speed in your product.  CISPR is playing catch-up in this area.

Ghery Pettit
Intel
Member, CISPR SC I WG2, WG3 and WG4


-Original Message-
From: Gordon,Ian [mailto:ian.gor...@edwards.boc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:14 AM
To: 'IEEE EMC & SAFETY PSTC'
Subject: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS



I was recently told that the upper limit for radiated emission/immunity
testing of non-telecomm equipment was to be raised to 3GHz. Can anyone
confirm this and if so, are there plans to amend the European generic
standards?
Thanks
Ian Gordon




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FW: Canada GSM specification

[Michael.Sundstrom]

> Hello all,
> 
> I'm hearing Canada might have come out with a new 800MHz GSM specification? 
> Can anyone lead me to a web site that shows this new information?
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> 
> 
> 
Michael Sundstrom
 NOKIA 
  TCC Dallas / EMC
   ofc: (972) 374-1462
cell: (817) 917-5021
 amateur call: KB5UKT

>  

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Re: CE MARKING A SYSTEM

[John Woodgate]

I read in !emc-pstc that rehel...@mmm.com wrote (in
) about 'CE MARKING A
SYSTEM', on Wed, 1 May 2002:
>Contrary to popular opinion, the TCF route is not designed to "get around"
>standards.

Indeed. It is intended, in one instance, to accommodate circumstances in
which the application of the standards leads to an anomalous situation.
The Notified Bodies are taken to be sufficiently skilled to determine
when and how an anomalous situation can be resolved.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

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Canada GSM specification

[Michael.Sundstrom]

Hello all,

I'm hearing Canada might have come out with a new 800MHz GSM specification? Can 
anyone lead me to a web site that shows this new information?

Thanks for your help,

Michael Sundstrom
 NOKIA 
  TCC Dallas / EMC
   ofc: (972) 374-1462
cell: (817) 917-5021
 amateur call: KB5UKT


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non 601 approved isolating component

[Ron]

I need to use an isolating device between a sip/sop and an applied part (BF)
requiring 1500V isolation (Basic(250)).  I plan on using a digital isolator,
but the component does not have IEC601 approval.  The component does have
2500V isolation and 8 mm creepage.

Questions:

1) When our product is submitted for IEC601 certification, how does the use
of the non 601 approved part affect the investigation?

 2) Does the investigator need the schematic for that component?  What if
the schematic is not available?

 3) If the component already has other approvals (UL1950 or UL1577).  How
does this affect the approval process?

Thanks in advance.

r...@vascor.com


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immunity of a pwb as a function of grounding

[Douglas C. Smith]

Hi All,

I have been busy again setting up experiments and taking data on a
circuit board that indicates a design rule for ESD that I have heard
from many sources does not work. I knew this was the case, but thought
some data was in order.

This month, the Technical Tidbit at http://emcesd.com (or alternately
http://www.dsmith.org) investigates the effect of board connections to a
metal plane on its response to ESD. Scroll down to the bottom of the
index page to link to the article. This article builds on the results of
the April Technical Tidbit article where an oscillator was used as the
excitation of a board over a metal plane.

A circuit board from a disk drive was mounted near a metal plane and
measurements of currents in connections to the plane were taken when the
plane was excited by an ESD event. The results are dramatic and a major
design rule about grounding circuit boards for immunity is shown to be
ineffective.

This article shows in a different way how strong the coupling between a
board and a nearby metal plane is.

At first I tried to use a small surface current probe for the
measurement, but a null experiment showed that it was too sensitive to
electric fields so I used a shielded square magnetic loop to make the
measurement.

Doug
-- 
---
___  _   Doug Smith
 \  / )  P.O. Box 1457
  =  Los Gatos, CA 95031-1457
   _ / \ / \ _   TEL/FAX: 408-356-4186/358-3799
 /  /\  \ ] /  /\  \ Mobile:  408-858-4528
|  q-( )  |  o  |Email:   d...@dsmith.org
 \ _ /]\ _ / Website: http://www.dsmith.org
---

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RE: NEC Questions

[Peter Tarver]

Richard -

Bob Johnson's response on your Q1 is on the money.

wrt your Q2 and "outlet strips", there may be the additional
consideration that you may impinge on the scope of UL1363,
Relocatable Power Taps (formerly a desk standard for
"Temporary Power Taps"), Listed under the CCN XBYS.  Point
being, the final assembled product may have to comply with
UL1363, with the internal measurement device having
requirements from UL3111-1.  [This was the case for
relocatable power taps that incorporated secondary
protection for telecommunications circuits, where the
latter, internal components were required to comply with
UL497A.]


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE
Product Safety Manager
Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services
San Jose, CA
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com


> -Original Message-
> From: Richard Meyette
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:05 AM
>
> I have a couple of questions regrading the
> National Electrical Code:
>
> 2) Consider the same power measuring circuit
> installed into a direct
> plug-in (NEMA 5-15P) with a single outlet
> receptacle (NEMA 5-15R) or into
> an outlet strip with a 16 AWG power cord with
> several outlet
> receptacles.  Assuming that the measuring circuit
> is provided with a
> suitable fuse for overcurrent protection, are the
> outlet receptacles
> required to be protected by a 15 A fuse or
> circuit breaker in the device or
> can they rely on the circuit breaker for the
> branch circuit for overcurrent
> protection?
>
> The UL product standard for this device is UL
> 3111-1 (Electrical Measuring
> and Test Equipment), which is harmonized with IEC
> 61010-1, requires an
> overcurrent protector to be fitted within the
> equipment for all devices
> connected to the mains supply (9.6.2). There are
> no US deviations in this
> standard that would allow the circuit breaker to
> provide this protection,
> so based on this I would assume that a 15 A
> circuit breaker of fuse would
> be required for the NEMA 5-15R receptacles.  I
> would also assume that a 20
> A overcurrent protector would be required for a
> NEMA 5-20R outlet receptacle.
>
> However, the UL product standard for household
> appliances (UL 60335-1) does
> have a US deviation to a similar requirement for
> overcurrent devices (19.1,
> Note 2) that states the "The PROTECTIVE DEVICE in
> the fixed wiring does not
> provide the necessary protection."  However, the
> US deviation states "The
> circuit protection device is permitted to provide
> necessary
> protection".  If I am interpreting this
> correctly, a household appliance in
> the USA could rely on the panel breaker for
> overcurrent protection.  Any
> comments?
>
> Thanks in advance for anyone willing to wade
> through this and send me a
> response.
>
> Richard A. Meyette. PE
> meye...@pacbell.net
>
>
>
>
> ---
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RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS

[Pettit, Ghery]

Ian,

Work is progressing in CISPR SC I to amend CISPR 22 to have limits to as
high as 18 GHz.  This will not happen overnight, however.  A committee draft
(CD) document is out for comment within the national committees.  I expect
that it will be a hot topic of discussion at the SC I meetings in
Christchurch, New Zealand in late September.  From that meeting there will
likely be a committee draft for vote (CDV) that will come out for a 5 month
voting period.  If it passes, we will be discussing the comments at the SC I
meeting in South Korea next year.  After than, the final draft international
standard (FDIS) document will go out for vote (another 5 month period).  If
that passes, the changes will be implemented in the next amendment or full
edition of CISPR 22.  Confused?  The bottom line is that, assuming
everything goes smoothly for the current proposal (and we've already voted
down one FDIS), 2004 is the earliest that a change to CISPR 22 could be
published.  Then you would be looking at some time before CENELEC put out
their new version of EN 55022:1998 and then a 2 year transition period would
start.  2006 at the earliest.

There are no proposals to increase the frequency range for radiated immunity
tests in CISPR 24 at this time.

Keep in mind that these standards apply to ITE.  They do not apply to other
product families.  

Hope this helps.  Keep in mind that for the U.S. you may already have to
test radiated emissions to as high as 40 GHz, depending upon the maximum
clock speed in your product.  CISPR is playing catch-up in this area.

Ghery Pettit
Intel
Member, CISPR SC I WG2, WG3 and WG4


-Original Message-
From: Gordon,Ian [mailto:ian.gor...@edwards.boc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:14 AM
To: 'IEEE EMC & SAFETY PSTC'
Subject: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS



I was recently told that the upper limit for radiated emission/immunity
testing of non-telecomm equipment was to be raised to 3GHz. Can anyone
confirm this and if so, are there plans to amend the European generic
standards?
Thanks
Ian Gordon




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RE: Australian Telecom Surge testing

[Mike Hopkins]

The 10/700us waveform called out by IEC 61000-4-5 is essentially the same as
the 9/720us waveform called for by FCC. Both require circuits based on old
CCITT documents.
 
There are some generators on the market that will meet both requirements
(tolerances for each allow for the overlap). Older generators designed to
meet only the CCITT or IEC specification may not also meet the 9/720us
requirements of FCC. Both specify a 20uF energy storage capacitor for this
waveform...
 
Hope this helps...
 
Mike Hopkins
Thermo KeyTek
 

-Original Message-
From: John Cronin [mailto:croni...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 6:30 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Australian Telecom Surge testing



 

Hi group

Can anyone tell me offhand whether the surge test requirement for Australia
is to IEC 1000-4-5 which uses a network with a 1 uF source capacitor or is
it similar to the FCC test which I believe uses a 20 uF capacitor.

Best Regards

John Cronin


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EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS

[Gordon,Ian]

I was recently told that the upper limit for radiated emission/immunity
testing of non-telecomm equipment was to be raised to 3GHz. Can anyone
confirm this and if so, are there plans to amend the European generic
standards?
Thanks
Ian Gordon




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Re: CE MARKING A SYSTEM

[reheller]

Contrary to popular opinion, the TCF route is not designed to "get around"
standards.

Bob Heller
3M Product Safety, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
===



  
John Woodgate   
  
  cc: (bcc: Robert E. 
Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US)   
 Subject: Re: CE MARKING A SYSTEM   
  
04/30/2002  
  
08:55 AM
  
Please respond  
  
to John 
  
Woodgate
  

  

  






I read in !emc-pstc that Gordon,Ian  wrote
(in ) about 'CE
MARKING A SYSTEM', on Tue, 30 Apr 2002:
>Can anyone advise the course of action in applying a CE mark as regards
EMC
>to a system some of whose component parts are not built by us and whose D
of
>C's claim light industrial immunity. However, the system has been running
in
>very harsh environments e.g. plasma etch applications at customer sites
and
>we wish to claim industrial level immunity for the system. The system is
>obviously "fit for purpose" in the intended environment.
>We have performed radiated testing to this level on the whole system.
>Unfortunately if we surge test these "light industrial" components which
>form part of the system we are certain they will fail at the appropriate
>levels. One component is an "industrial" PC.
>Does anybody have any suggestions as to what action to take to allow us to
>apply the CE mark and claim industrial immunity?

If you are sure it won't pass the normal industrial immunity tests, but
is fit for purpose and thus you don't want to have to make it conform,
you have to use the Technical File route.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

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CE RTTE Directive Radio Required Standards for VHF/UHF Products

[IEEE-EMC User Group]

Hi All,
1. The subject products have the following main chatracteristics:
1.1. Application: Transmission of alarm detectors' data to remote
monitoring centers.
1.2. Operated in fixed locations.
1.3. RF output power: 2.5-5W.
1.4. The products have the following frequency ranges:
a. 136-156MHz
b. 154-174MHz
c. 400-435MHz
d. 435-470MHz
2. Please advise, what is/are the applicable CE RTTE Standard/s?
All assistance is appreciated.
Regards
Yuri Mordukhovitch
EMC Engineer
EMC Laboratory
ITL (Product Testing) Ltd.
Kfar Bin Nun
Israel
Tel: +972-8-9797799
Fax: +972-8-9797702
Email: yu...@itl.co.il
http://www.itl.co.il
http://www.i-spec.com
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