thermal v magnetic breakers

2002-08-07 Thread Ted Rook

in our products we make extensive use of breakers combined with the on-off 
switch

they are exclusively magnetic type

thermal breakers work by temperature effects which arise from the heating 
effect of the current. There is an unavoidable time factor involved when the 
current must first heat something.

magnetic breakers are current sensitive directly, the current flows thru the 
solenoid coil to which the moving contacts are attached.


you can expect a magnetic breaker to offer the following advantages:

smaller margin between operating current and trip current, can be as little as 
10%

more rapid response time,

response time variable

relatively insensitive to the ambient temperature, much less so than thermal 
breakers

possibility of remote operation by auxiliary coil and many other useful 
configurations

Try AIRPAX Maryland for expert information on Magnetic breakers, a subsidiary 
of Philips.

an unsolicited observation: sorry to hear you have lost the people who designed 
the product. Buyers and managers need good engineers to keep them out of 
pitfalls like the substitution you have described.



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RE: IEC 60417 symbol library

2002-08-07 Thread Angus McGill (Cascade Engineering Svcs, Inc.)

Hi Everybody:

Because of a need that has come up suddenly, I am looking for a source
of two ISO 3864 symbols in a big hurry.  Where can one purchase and
download EPS or similar quality graphics of these symbols?  The two I am
looking for are the red circle-slash over the hand (meaning hot surface
do not touch), and B.3.1 (exclamation point in the triangle yellow
background).  I already have a gif of the latter one which might be
convertible.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Angus McGill
Compliance Engineer
Cascade Engineering Services, Inc.
v-ang...@microsoft.com


-Original Message-
From: Peter Tarver [mailto:peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:19 AM
To: PSTC
Subject: IEC 60417 symbol library



All interested -

The IEC has just announced an upcoming on-line IEC 60417
symbol library will be made available soon (I checked and it's not yet
available through the IEC Web Store).  Don't expect to access them
gratis, as they once were on the Chiba University, Ikeda Lab web site
(even though fee based, this could be very handy).  Pricing was not
announced.

Access to the databases is by subscription: clients can purchase a
subscription for a 3, 6, 12 or 24-month period giving them access to the
full collection of graphical symbols.


Refer to

http://www.iec.ch/online_news/etech/prodserv.htm


For further reading on the concept of database standards
from the IEC, browse to

http://www.iec.ch/online_news/etech/arch_2002/etech_0702/foc
us.htm



Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE
Product Safety Manager
Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services
San Jose, CA
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com


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RE: Thermal breakers vs magnetic breakers for telecom

2002-08-07 Thread Gary McInturff

Ran into a similar problem with the thermals - they tripped during the 
72 hour 55C operating limit test. Could have gone larger but it had more 
problems than fitting in the magnetic units.
Gary

-Original Message-
From: John Juhasz [mailto:john.juh...@ge-interlogix.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:28 AM
To: 'David Heald'; 'EMC_PSTC'
Subject: RE: Thermal breakers vs magnetic breakers for telecom



Yeah, I had used them . . . once.

As they were a lower cost circuit breaker we spec'd them into a telecom
system. What we didn't think about was the temperature extremes.
For the higher temp tests for NEBS the higher temp breakers
were too large and too expensive -  for my management anyway.

I suppose they could serve a purpose during the fire spread
test - power disconnection of chassis.

Just a couple of thoughts . . .

John A. Juhasz

GE Interlogix
Fiber Options Div.
Bohemia, NY 


-Original Message-
From: David Heald [mailto:dhe...@tellium.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:18 AM
To: 'EMC_PSTC'
Subject: Thermal breakers vs magnetic breakers for telecom



Greetings all,
  In the spirit of the continual quest for cost reduction, I have been asked
to look into the use of thermal circuit breakers instead of magnetic ones.
It seems like we rejected thermal breakers before for some reason, but now
no one can remember why.  

Does anyone know of any telecom (or general) reasons why thermal circuit
breakers may be unacceptable for telecom products?

Thanks and Best Regards,
Dave Heald

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RE: Online Standards EN61010-1

2002-08-07 Thread Tyra, John

Hello Doug,

Bose buys many of our standards from ILI in Great Britain (I believe)
http://www.ili-info.com/us/ and we have received some in electronic format.
These sites also seems to offer standards in PDF form and also gives you a
simple free search engine to help you identify and find standards for your
application which is helpful  http://www.cssinfo.com/perinorm.html and
http://www.techstreet.com/  Hope this is helpful.

regards,

John Tyra
Design Assurance Engineering,
Product Safety  Regulatory Manager

Bose Corporation
The Mountain, M.S.-450
Framingham, MA 01701-9168
508-766-1502 Phone
508-766-1145 Fax
john_t...@bose.com



-Original Message-
From: POWELL, DOUG [mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:15 PM
To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail)
Subject: Online Standards EN61010-1



Hello all,

I have been searching for a document service that has electronic format
standards (PDF) for EN61010-1:2001 with fully functional text search.  IHS
Global and TechStreet have hardcopy only.  BSI offers electronic but it's
only a converted TIFF format.  I thought about using the IEC but I am not
sure if there are any national deviations in the European Norm.

Any help you can provide is appreciated.


-doug

---
Douglas E. Powell, Compliance Engineer
Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
Ft. Collins, CO 80525
mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com
---




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Energy Industries, Inc.  The dissemination, distribution, use 
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RE: Thermal breakers vs magnetic breakers for telecom

2002-08-07 Thread John Lach
  RE: Thermal breakers vs magnetic breakers8/7/02
David, One of the reasons they may have been rejected previously is their 
change in trip point due to temperature changes. The higher the ambient 
temperature gets the lower the trip point of the thermal device becomes. If 
they are used side by side in a PDU in a telecom rack they may even generate 
enough heat to trip with 80% or less of rated current flowing. The trip point 
of a hydraulic magnetic breaker does not change with temperature. Typically 
they have a must trip value at 125% of rated current and will hold 100% of 
rated current. The one thing about magnetic hydraulic breakers at an increased 
ambient temperature is that the amount of time required to trip at 125% of 
rated current will be less. In most cases this is not considered a bad 
attribute. I hope this helps 
John


David Heald wrote:

Greetings all,
  In the spirit of the continual quest for cost reduction, I have been asked
to look into the use of thermal circuit breakers instead of magnetic ones.
It seems like we rejected thermal breakers before for some reason, but now
no one can remember why.  
Does anyone know of any telecom (or general) reasons why thermal circuit
breakers may be unacceptable for telecom products?

Thanks and Best Regards,
Dave Heald

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John Lach
Manager Standards and Test
john.l...@carlingtech.com

Carling Technologies
60 Johnson Ave.
Plainville, CT 06062
860-793-7167
www.carlingtech.com


RE: Thermal breakers vs magnetic breakers for telecom

2002-08-07 Thread John Juhasz

Yeah, I had used them . . . once.

As they were a lower cost circuit breaker we spec'd them into a telecom
system. What we didn't think about was the temperature extremes.
For the higher temp tests for NEBS the higher temp breakers
were too large and too expensive -  for my management anyway.

I suppose they could serve a purpose during the fire spread
test - power disconnection of chassis.

Just a couple of thoughts . . .

John A. Juhasz

GE Interlogix
Fiber Options Div.
Bohemia, NY 


-Original Message-
From: David Heald [mailto:dhe...@tellium.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:18 AM
To: 'EMC_PSTC'
Subject: Thermal breakers vs magnetic breakers for telecom



Greetings all,
  In the spirit of the continual quest for cost reduction, I have been asked
to look into the use of thermal circuit breakers instead of magnetic ones.
It seems like we rejected thermal breakers before for some reason, but now
no one can remember why.  

Does anyone know of any telecom (or general) reasons why thermal circuit
breakers may be unacceptable for telecom products?

Thanks and Best Regards,
Dave Heald

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RE: Thermal breakers vs magnetic breakers for telecom

2002-08-07 Thread Darrell Locke

When I worked on CATV power supplies I had two reasons for using magnetic;

1. Nuisance tripping of thermal breakers during high ambient temperatures

2. Magnetic breakers often carry a higher level of safety rating (UL Listed
vs UL Recognized)than thermal and have higher short circuit maximum ratings.

Darrell Locke
Advanced Input Devices

-Original Message-
From: David Heald [mailto:dhe...@tellium.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:18 AM
To: 'EMC_PSTC'
Subject: Thermal breakers vs magnetic breakers for telecom



Greetings all,
  In the spirit of the continual quest for cost reduction, I have been asked
to look into the use of thermal circuit breakers instead of magnetic ones.
It seems like we rejected thermal breakers before for some reason, but now
no one can remember why.  

Does anyone know of any telecom (or general) reasons why thermal circuit
breakers may be unacceptable for telecom products?

Thanks and Best Regards,
Dave Heald

---
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Online Standards EN61010-1

2002-08-07 Thread POWELL, DOUG

Hello all,

I have been searching for a document service that has electronic format
standards (PDF) for EN61010-1:2001 with fully functional text search.  IHS
Global and TechStreet have hardcopy only.  BSI offers electronic but it's
only a converted TIFF format.  I thought about using the IEC but I am not
sure if there are any national deviations in the European Norm.

Any help you can provide is appreciated.


-doug

---
Douglas E. Powell, Compliance Engineer
Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
Ft. Collins, CO 80525
mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com
---




___
This message, including any attachments, may contain information
that is confidential and proprietary information of Advanced 
Energy Industries, Inc.  The dissemination, distribution, use 
or copying of this message or any of its attachments is 
strictly prohibited without the express written consent of 
Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.

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IEC 60417 symbol library

2002-08-07 Thread Peter Tarver

All interested -

The IEC has just announced an upcoming on-line IEC 60417
symbol library will be made available soon (I checked and
it's not yet available through the IEC Web Store).  Don't
expect to access them gratis, as they once were on the Chiba
University, Ikeda Lab web site (even though fee based, this
could be very handy).  Pricing was not announced.

Access to the databases is by subscription: clients can
purchase a subscription for a 3, 6, 12 or 24-month period
giving them access to the full collection of graphical
symbols.


Refer to

http://www.iec.ch/online_news/etech/prodserv.htm


For further reading on the concept of database standards
from the IEC, browse to

http://www.iec.ch/online_news/etech/arch_2002/etech_0702/foc
us.htm



Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE
Product Safety Manager
Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services
San Jose, CA
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com


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Thermal breakers vs magnetic breakers for telecom

2002-08-07 Thread David Heald

Greetings all,
  In the spirit of the continual quest for cost reduction, I have been asked
to look into the use of thermal circuit breakers instead of magnetic ones.
It seems like we rejected thermal breakers before for some reason, but now
no one can remember why.  

Does anyone know of any telecom (or general) reasons why thermal circuit
breakers may be unacceptable for telecom products?

Thanks and Best Regards,
Dave Heald

---
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Re: European FDA Equivalent

2002-08-07 Thread Steven Goulding

The European equivalent is the IEC 60825 series of standards. There may also
be more laser safety to deal with in IEC 60601-2-22 as well but I am not
sure since most of my work with lasers have been with communications
equipment.

I hope this helps.

Steven

- Original Message -
From: Joe P Martin marti...@appliedbiosystems.com
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 10:33 PM
Subject: European FDA Equivalent



 Is there a European and/or Canadian equivalent to the FDA in the US in
 regards to diagnostic medical equipment?  If so, what are the
organizations
 names and are their requirements similar to the FDA's?

 Any assistance is appreciated.

 Regards

 Joe Martin
 Applied Biosystems
 marti...@appliedbiosystems.com



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Re: European FDA Equivalent

2002-08-07 Thread SOUNDSURFR

In Canada, the analagous organization is Health Canada.  Similar rules and 
responsibilities to FDA.

The European system is somewhat different.  All medical devices being 
marketed or placed into service in Europe must comply with the European 
Medical Device Directive (MDD) and carry a CE marking.  Depending on the type 
of device and device classification (per the Directive), the product must be 
type tested to the appropriate European standard and test data and/or 
clinical data must be evaluated by a Notified Body for medical equipment 
before the CE Marking can be applied.  There is at least one Notified Body 
for medical equipment in each European country, and any Notified Body you 
choose can do the work on behalf of all countries in the EU.  Most products 
will also need to have a quality audit performed by a Notified Body at the 
manufacturer's facility.

The product classifications are somewhat different from the FDA class I, II, 
and III, so you need to read the Directive carefully to find out how your 
device should be classified.   Class I devices need little Notified Body 
oversight.   Class IIa and IIb require quality audits and type approval, 
Class III equipment requires even more oversight and control.

You can view  the MDD here:

http://www.newapproach.org/directiveList.asp


Regards,


Greg Galluccio
Galluccio  Associates
1-516-641-2250
www.productapprovals.com
  

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EN 60825 Laser Classifications

2002-08-07 Thread Joe P Martin

Group,

Amendment 2 (2001) to EN60825 Safety of laser products, has changed some
laser classifications.  The amendment has included new classifications 1M,
2M and 3R.  Class 1M and 2M include in their definitions  For diverging
beams if the user places optical components within 100mm from the source to
concentrate the beam...  What is the rational of adding these
classifications?  What is an example of a product that would use this
technology?  Why did the IEC choose the letters M and R for these new
classifications?

All responses are greatly appreciated.

Regards

Joe Martin
Applied Biosystems


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