RE: EMC standards for theatrical props

[Nick Williams]

Thanks for your comments.

I can see your point, but actually theatres and arenas strike me as 
being just such a fairly high current, high switching environment. 
When I was a student in London, we had a theatre at college which had 
a 50 x 2.5kW per channel thyristor lighting controller. I'm sure 
bigger venues have much higher loads. Using the definition of an 
industrial location being one which has its own private MV 
transformer, I would expect many of the places I'm concerned about to 
fit this description.


Please give my regards to Montreal. I expect is has changed 
significantly in the 20 years since I was last there.


Regards

Nick.


At 15:01 -0500 28/11/02, Benoît Nadeau wrote:

Bonjour de Montréal,

So if you are looking for any comment or advice I would just say that I
would consider this as a commercial environment. If you look at the scope of
the Heavy Industrial Generic standard you will see that this standard is
really directed to high currents, high switching environment.

Regards,



-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Nick Williams
Sent: jeudi, novembre 28, 2002 11:45
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: EMC standards for theatrical props


We have a client who is designing some equipment for use in
theatrical venues (including stadia and arenas). The equipment is (in
effect) a stage prop and is not lighting or sound related.

Would this be considered to be an industrial location, or a
commercial/residential one?

Any comments and advice welcome!

Regards

Nick.




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EMC standards for theatrical props

[Nick Williams]

We have a client who is designing some equipment for use in 
theatrical venues (including stadia and arenas). The equipment is (in 
effect) a stage prop and is not lighting or sound related.


Would this be considered to be an industrial location, or a 
commercial/residential one?


Any comments and advice welcome!

Regards

Nick.

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Looking for information

[Pierre SELVA]

Hello all,

I'm looking for information on the following materials :

- User manual of the DEISEL controller 4630/100 for mast and turntable.
- Electrical schematics and user manual of the video driver system (1310 F/O 
camera system - with the joystick !).
- Kind of filters that can be used for filtering the COMTEST camera (and its 
motor) signals - What are the electrical characteristics of these signals ?
- User manual of the DEISEL MA240 mast.

Please, let me know (offline, to not disturb forum !) what could be the 
conditions to obtain these documents.

In advance, I thank a lot for your cooperation.

Best regards,
Pierre Selva




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RE: Short circuit tests in GR-1089

[Richard Hughes]

Joe,
 
It is quite common for local filtering consisting of an inductor followed by
a capacitor to be added in the logic-level supply rail following an on-board
DC:DC converter when powering sensitive ICs.  Often there are many such
filters on each card and it is not feasible to fuse each of them
individually.  If you short, or partially short (low resistance) the output
capacitor then you can reach a condition where the DC:DC converter keeps
pumping power into the fault and either the inductor fails or the output
tracks burn up.  [Of course, this is just one example of many where
components are placed in series with the supply line.]
 
I must say that my approach has been to consider that provided that the
inductor open circuits cleanly (perhaps some smoke, but no fire and no
charring of the pcb on which the inductor is mounted) then that is OK
safety-wise.  Personally, I would not be happy if an inner-layer trace were
to burn up for both safety reasons and board re-use reasons.  I'm none too
keen on surface layers burning up either.
 
A possible safety problem with inner traces opening is that this failure
could damage the safety insulation (e.g. by charring or de-lamination)
between other traces on that pcb.   This of course would vary from board to
board and may not have been an issue for Joe's board.
 
Of course, I am also open to flaming but to an extent that's how we all
learn.
 
Perhaps some will take issue with me in applying a partial short in addition
to a dead short.  In my defence I will say that I work for a manufacturer
and not a test lab and the reality is that failed capacitors are unlikely to
have a zero ohm impedance when they fail in real life.  The question then
becomes one of how far should one go to minimise product liability?
 
So, having put on my Nomex clothing I await a reply!
 
Richard Hughes

-Original Message-


In a message dated 11/27/2002, Joe Randolph writes:

The only remaining gray area is whether the failure of a component or
circuit trace is acceptable *provided* that it is located on the same
circuit card where the short was induced, *and* that no safety hazard
resulted.  My interpretation is that this would be acceptable.  

RE: New FCC Conducted Emissions question (CISPR BW, ANSI C63.4 & FCC)

[Wan Juang Foo]

-Original Message-
From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:42 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: New FCC Conducted Emissions question

> For anyone with access to CISPR 22
> a) Is the measurment BWs the same as the FCC

Regarding CISPR BW:
CISPR 16- 1 defines three special values of RBW with 6 dB bandwidth:
?  200 Hz for Band A (fs =   9 kHz - 150 kHz)
?   9 kHz for Band B (fs = 150 kHz -  30 MHz)
? 120 kHz for Band C & D (fs =  30 MHz -1000 MHz)

> b) Doen't this require a new LISN?

I don't see how?  AFAIK, it (the AMN for CISPR 22 & C63.022) is the same
LISN as per ANSI C63.4-1992 pg 17.  (Can anytell me if..) Is ANSI C63-1992
current?

Just another of my 2¢...

cheerio

Tim Foo






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RE: Short circuit tests in GR-1089

[Gary McInturff]

Last I heard, and please correct me if not, was that Verizon had 
rejected the new standards much to the chagrin of the rest of the industry.
Gary

-Original Message-
From: j...@aol.com [mailto:j...@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:07 PM
To: t...@world.std.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: Short circuit tests in GR-1089



Hello All:

Many thanks to all who responded to my question about this requirement.  Many 
of the responses were quite interesting and persuasive, even though some of 
them were directly opposed.  I think that the expanded description in the new 
third edition of GR-1089 helps resolve most of the uncertainty I had with 
regard to this requirement.  I was not aware that the new edition of GR-1089 
had been issued, so this discussion was doubly useful.  Telcordia has now 
received some of my $$ for a copy of the new edition.


Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848
http://www.randolph-telecom.com


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RE: New FCC Conducted Emissions question

[Grasso, Charles]

Thanks Ghery..
 
 
Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Senior Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications Corp.
Tel:  303-706-5467
Fax: 303-799-6222
Cell: 303-204-2974
Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com; 

Email Alternate: chasgra...@ieee.org  
 

-Original Message-
From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 5:08 PM
To: Grasso, Charles; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: New FCC Conducted Emissions question


Charles,
 
They've already done it.
 
§15.107  Conducted limits. 
 
 (a)  Except for Class A digital devices, for equipment that is designed to
be connected to the public utility (AC) power line, the radio frequency
voltage that is conducted back onto the AC power line on any frequency or
frequencies within the band 150 kHz to 30 MHz shall not exceed the limits in
the following table, as measured using a 50 mH/50 ohms line impedance
stabilization network (LISN). Compliance with the provisions of this
paragraph shall be based on the measurement of the radio frequency voltage
between each power line and ground at the power terminal.  The lower limit
applies at the band edges.
 
 Frequency of   Conducted limit (dBmV)
 emission (MHz) Quasi-peak Average
 0.15-0.5 66 to 56* 56 to 46*
 0.5-5 56   46
 5-30  60   50
 
 * Decreases with the logarithm of the frequency.
 
 (b)  For a Class A digital device that is designed to be connected to the
public utility (AC) power line, the radio frequency voltage that is
conducted back onto the AC power line on any frequency or frequencies within
the band 150 kHz to 30 MHz shall not exceed the limits in the following
table, as measured using a 50 mH/50 ohms LISN.  Compliance with the
provisions of this paragraph shall be based on the measurement of the radio
frequency voltage between each power line and ground at the power terminal.
The lower limit applies at the boundary between the frequency ranges.
 
 Frequency of   Conducted limit (dBmV)
 emission (MHz) Quasi-peak Average
 0.15-0.5  7966
 0.5-30 73   60
 
 (c)  The limits shown in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section shall not
apply to carrier current systems operating as unintentional radiators on
frequencies below 30 MHz.  In lieu thereof, these carrier current systems
shall be subject to the following standards:
 
  (1)  For carrier current systems containing their fundamental emission
within the frequency band 535-1705 kHz and intended to be received using a
standard AM broadcast receiver:  no limit on conducted emissions.
 
  (2)  For all other carrier current systems: 1000 mV within the frequency
band 535-1705 kHz, as measured using a 50 mH/50 ohms LISN.
 
  (3)  Carrier current systems operating below 30 MHz are also subject to
the radiated emission limits in §15.109(e).
 
 (d)  Measurements to demonstrate compliance with the conducted limits are
not required for devices which only employ battery power for operation and
which do not operate from the AC power lines or contain provisions for
operation while connected to the AC power lines.  Devices that include, or
make provision for, the use of battery charges which permit operating while
charging, AC adaptors or battery eliminators or that connect to the AC power
lines indirectly, obtaining their power through another device which is
connected to the AC power lines, shall be tested to demonstrate compliance
with the conducted limits.
 
Section 15.37
 
(j)  All radio frequency devices that are authorized under the
certification, verification or declaration of conformity procedures on or
after July 12, 2004 shall comply with the conducted limits specified in
§15.107 or §15.207 as appropriate.  All radio frequency devices that are
manufactured or imported on or after July 11, 2005 shall comply with the
conducted limits specified in §15.107 or §15.207, as appropriate.  Equipment
authorized, imported or manufactured prior to these dates shall comply with
the conducted limits specified in §15.107 or §15.207, as appropriate, or
with the conducted limits that were in effect immediately prior to September
9, 2002.

 
Ghery Pettit
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:42 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: New FCC Conducted Emissions question


Hi All,
 
I understand that the FCC will be adopting the CISPR
conducted emissions test levels. Also, I believe that
there is a grandfathering clause. I have some q's for the
group:
 
a) Is there and a grandfathering clause &  for how long?
b) When did the clock start?
 
For anyone with access to CISPR 22
 
a) Is the measurment BWs the same as the FCC
b) Doen't this require a new LIS

RE: New FCC Conducted Emissions question

[Pettit, Ghery]

Charles,
 
They've already done it.
 
§15.107  Conducted limits. 
 
 (a)  Except for Class A digital devices, for equipment that is designed to
be connected to the public utility (AC) power line, the radio frequency
voltage that is conducted back onto the AC power line on any frequency or
frequencies within the band 150 kHz to 30 MHz shall not exceed the limits in
the following table, as measured using a 50 mH/50 ohms line impedance
stabilization network (LISN). Compliance with the provisions of this
paragraph shall be based on the measurement of the radio frequency voltage
between each power line and ground at the power terminal.  The lower limit
applies at the band edges.
 
 Frequency of   Conducted limit (dBmV)
 emission (MHz) Quasi-peak Average
 0.15-0.5 66 to 56* 56 to 46*
 0.5-5 56   46
 5-30  60   50
 
 * Decreases with the logarithm of the frequency.
 
 (b)  For a Class A digital device that is designed to be connected to the
public utility (AC) power line, the radio frequency voltage that is
conducted back onto the AC power line on any frequency or frequencies within
the band 150 kHz to 30 MHz shall not exceed the limits in the following
table, as measured using a 50 mH/50 ohms LISN.  Compliance with the
provisions of this paragraph shall be based on the measurement of the radio
frequency voltage between each power line and ground at the power terminal.
The lower limit applies at the boundary between the frequency ranges.
 
 Frequency of   Conducted limit (dBmV)
 emission (MHz) Quasi-peak Average
 0.15-0.5  7966
 0.5-30 73   60
 
 (c)  The limits shown in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section shall not
apply to carrier current systems operating as unintentional radiators on
frequencies below 30 MHz.  In lieu thereof, these carrier current systems
shall be subject to the following standards:
 
  (1)  For carrier current systems containing their fundamental emission
within the frequency band 535-1705 kHz and intended to be received using a
standard AM broadcast receiver:  no limit on conducted emissions.
 
  (2)  For all other carrier current systems: 1000 mV within the frequency
band 535-1705 kHz, as measured using a 50 mH/50 ohms LISN.
 
  (3)  Carrier current systems operating below 30 MHz are also subject to
the radiated emission limits in §15.109(e).
 
 (d)  Measurements to demonstrate compliance with the conducted limits are
not required for devices which only employ battery power for operation and
which do not operate from the AC power lines or contain provisions for
operation while connected to the AC power lines.  Devices that include, or
make provision for, the use of battery charges which permit operating while
charging, AC adaptors or battery eliminators or that connect to the AC power
lines indirectly, obtaining their power through another device which is
connected to the AC power lines, shall be tested to demonstrate compliance
with the conducted limits.
 
Section 15.37
 
(j)  All radio frequency devices that are authorized under the
certification, verification or declaration of conformity procedures on or
after July 12, 2004 shall comply with the conducted limits specified in
§15.107 or §15.207 as appropriate.  All radio frequency devices that are
manufactured or imported on or after July 11, 2005 shall comply with the
conducted limits specified in §15.107 or §15.207, as appropriate.  Equipment
authorized, imported or manufactured prior to these dates shall comply with
the conducted limits specified in §15.107 or §15.207, as appropriate, or
with the conducted limits that were in effect immediately prior to September
9, 2002.

 
Ghery Pettit
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:42 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: New FCC Conducted Emissions question


Hi All,
 
I understand that the FCC will be adopting the CISPR
conducted emissions test levels. Also, I believe that
there is a grandfathering clause. I have some q's for the
group:
 
a) Is there and a grandfathering clause &  for how long?
b) When did the clock start?
 
For anyone with access to CISPR 22
 
a) Is the measurment BWs the same as the FCC
b) Doen't this require a new LISN?
 
 
Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Senior Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications Corp.
Tel:  303-706-5467
Fax: 303-799-6222
Cell: 303-204-2974
Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com; 

Email Alternate: chasgra...@ieee.org