Re: Shieled ethernet cables in Germany
To my knowledge, only when the Class B for Central-Office equipment has to be met. Neven Hello Group, I heard recently that shielded Ethernet cables have become something of a customer-expectation-based defacto standard in Germany for installation of network type ITE equipment (routers, switches, firewalls, etc.) Can anyone confirm or comment on that. Is it like that anywhere else? Thanks George Stults WatchGuard Technologies Inc. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Shieled ethernet cables in Germany
Hello Group, I heard recently that shielded Ethernet cables have become something of a customer-expectation-based defacto standard in Germany for installation of network type ITE equipment (routers, switches, firewalls, etc.) Can anyone confirm or comment on that. Is it like that anywhere else? Thanks George Stults WatchGuard Technologies Inc. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Safety Requrement for wireless component in vehicle.
Dear All, Automotive safety is not my field but I have come across this device that are maybe some of you can give me some input. This device (small black box) is an add on device that tap into vehicle signal wire, so information like braking, turning signaling, can be sent wirelessly to the back of the trailer without pulling wire to the back. The question is that are there any vehicle safety standard guarding this kind of device. My primary concern is the reliability of the signal get to the taillight, which could become a hazard if taillight fail to interpret signal on time and correctly. Thanks, Cheng-Wee Lai This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
TV Interface Devices - Lower Sideband and the -4.6MHz limits
Hello, Why does the FCC limit the signal from a TV interface device? In particular, I find the out of band requirements are peculiar. (below -4.6MHz, and above +7.4Mhz) The FCC requires a transfer switch that switches between the generated signal, like a VCR, and the over-the air signals. When the switch is set to the VCR output, there aren't any other signals to interfere with. The system is closed. Is there a historical or functional reason for limiting these signals? Thanks, Mat FCC part 15.115 extract: (2) At any RF output terminal, the maximum measured RMS voltage, in microvolts, corresponding to the peak envelope power of the modulated signal during maximum amplitude peaks across a resistance (R in ohms) matching the rated output impedance of the TV interface device, of any emission appearing on frequencies removed by more than 4.6 MHz below or 7.4 MHz above the video carrier frequency on which the TV interface device is operated shall not exceed the following: ii) For all other TV interface devices, 10.95 times the square root of (R).
Blower Motor w/ European approval
We use a UL and CSA blower motor (230Volt 50/60hz) in one of our Instruments (Lab Equipment). We want to get the CE marking on this product so we are looking for a drop in replacement motor that would have a European Safety agency approval. The current motor is a standard blower motor like the ones used in a bathroom ventilator. I'm having a hard time finding one with a European approval. If anyone knows of a US source for such a motor, please email me at the address below. Thank you, Brian Kunde LECO Corp. brian_ku...@leco.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: 13.56 MHz
Why this frequency? What is special about it? Frank Frank Krozel, Technical Representative Voice: 630-924-1600 Fax: 630-924-1668 Cell: 630-890-5421 24/7 hours Home: 630-653-9090 Electronic Instrument Associates-Central, Inc. website: http://www.electronicinstrument.com Serving the Midwest since 1971 with Electrical Engineers Join the IEEE today, look to http://www.ieee.org for details From: drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com To: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 9:35 AM Subject: RE: Japan 13.56 MHz Richard, is the proposed increase to support magnetic field signaling, such as in automobiles? Dave Cuthbert -Original Message- From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:30 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Japan 13.56 MHz Last year a Japan was considering raising the intentional emissions limit at 13.56 MHz for short range devices to match the ETSI/FCC limit of 42 dBuA/m. Does any one know if this proposal was adopted? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: RE02 cabling problem
I completely agree with Ken Javor. Solid theory and solid conclusions. Dave Cuthbert From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 4:53 PM To: pwell...@csw.l-3com.com; 72146@compuserve.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: RE02 cabling problem There is another implied concept of questionable validity in this latest posting. The way I read it, Mr. Wellington is talking about filtering signals emanating from the support equipment as it passes through a bulkhead between control and test chambers. Such signals usually require no filtering whatsoever, because if they have any bandwidth at all, they are run with dedicated returns (such as a twisted pair or a twisted shielded pair) and have no radiation efficiency to speak of. What requires filtering, and what is ameliorated by proper PCB layout, as he alluded to in an earlier post, is common mode emissions. These can be filtered to a very high degree with no impact on intentional signals. Common fixes are snap on ferrite beads and line-to-ground caps. Clearly the line-to-ground caps should not attenuate the desired signal, but in most if not all cases the undesired cm current is orders of magnitude higher in frequency than the intentional signal. In those cases where this is not the case, the military would run intentionally high frequency signals within shielded cables (think MIL-STD-1553 and fibre channel) which, if properly terminated, will provide all the protection necessary without resort to either filtering or over-braids. Specifically, if the support equipment or its environment resulted in high frequency cm currents conducted on the outside of a shielded cable, that cable should be terminated peripherally to a connector at the bulkhead as it passes into the test chamber. If the cable is not shielded and the source is the ambient, then shielding of the cable external to the test chamber is both proper and necessary, and has no effect on the validity of the test set-up within the chamber. Further, it requires no input from the customer, because it does not affect the delivered product configuration. If the test support equipment itself is the cm source, then any cm filtering necessary to attenuate those emissions before they enter the test chamber is again proper and necessary, external to the test chamber. It might be said that such filtering could reduce cm currents emanating from the test sample, but this is not a big problem for a couple of reasons. First it is easy to determine whether it is support equipment or the test sample which is driving the currents, by sequentially de-energizing suspected sources and noting the effect on the emissions. Secondly, the standard effectively requires at least 3 meters of cabling between test sample and bulkhead. Above 10 MHz the cable is electrically long and the effect of a filter at the bulkhead does not directly impact the level of cm current on the cable, but only indirectly as its impedance is transformed by the electrical length and distributed characteristic impedance of the cable in question. If the mil-std EMI test set-up were so well-controlled that every test chamber and every test bench were of precisely equal size and configuration and no matter where the test was conducted the entire test set-up including cable layout were identical within inches, then it might be productive to worry about changing a common mode impedance at the end of a three meter cable. In my experience, such is hardly the case. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Japan 13.56 MHz
I just heard some more about this. The proposal was to implement the same limits and spectrum mask as CEPT Recommendation 70-03 Annex 9 Figure 3 (inductive loop devices). I just heard from another source that it was approved. Can anyone confirm this? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: WOODS, RICHARD Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 8:30 AM To: 'emc-pstc' Subject: Japan 13.56 MHz Last year a Japan was considering raising the intentional emissions limit at 13.56 MHz for short range devices to match the ETSI/FCC limit of 42 dBuA/m. Does any one know if this proposal was adopted? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Japan 13.56 MHz
Richard, is the proposed increase to support magnetic field signaling, such as in automobiles? Dave Cuthbert From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:30 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Japan 13.56 MHz Last year a Japan was considering raising the intentional emissions limit at 13.56 MHz for short range devices to match the ETSI/FCC limit of 42 dBuA/m. Does any one know if this proposal was adopted? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: RE02 cabling problem
It's been a long time since I did military-style testing -- TEMPEST in the 1980's -- but it seemed to me then that no great care was taken to control cable common-mode impedance. The environment INSIDE the chamber was as unrealistic as one might care to get, and no attempt was made to control or modify chamber resonances. A reverberant chamber so dominates radiated tests* conducted in it that deviation as a result of signal line filters may be unnoticeable from one chamber to the next. Realistically, any filtering used has to conform to the requirements of the signal being filtered, as would an actual installation. This makes it possible to use for testing. However... is use of filters in real-life ruled out when testing has been done without them? The ideal filter would be, I suppose, one whose impedance simulates in both common and differential modes the infinite conductor of myth and theory, with no signal reflected. This seems what the European absorbing clamp attempts to provide, and might be useful here. *I've seen a reverberant chamber dominate _conducted_ tests, too. A Part 15 test had to be done outside. Cortland This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Japan 13.56 MHz
Last year a Japan was considering raising the intentional emissions limit at 13.56 MHz for short range devices to match the ETSI/FCC limit of 42 dBuA/m. Does any one know if this proposal was adopted? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: IEC 61010 requirements
Delphina, It's not only an issue of intended use, but also a question of location. With regard to the example you give, if a PC for the surgeon's urgent emails is located within the 'patient vicinity', as defined in IEC 60601-1-1 (within about 6 feet of the patient's bed), then I believe that it should comply with IEC 60601-1, even though it's not a medical device. The reasoning behind this is that the patient could possibly touch the PC (that's the logic behind the 'patient vicinity' concept), and close a leakage current loop, together with other medical instruments with which he is in contact. This could be particularly nasty if there is a fault in the PC's earth wire. Regards, Jon Griver http://www.601help.com The Medical Device Developers Guide to IEC 60601-1 On 20 Feb 2003 at 12:38, Han, Delphina wrote: Hi all, Thanks for your responses. When I originally asked the question, I was sure that the particular equipment I was asking about does not fall under the scope IEC60601, but I wanted to confirm if IEC61010 is the relevant standard. As you may notice, I have a copy of the IEC60601 standard but not IEC61010! I also needed to find out if there were special requirements for isolation transformers in IEC61010. From the discussion, it seems that which standard to comply with is dependent on the intended use, and not where the equipment is placed. So, if we put a PC in the hospital operating room, but it is just for the surgeon to let's say, check email (not practical...but this is just an example), would 60950 be the relevant standard? I doubt it'd have to meet 60601 requirements. How about EMC standards? (maybe I should start a new thread...). Will this PC have to meet IEC 60601-1-2 for medical? Or EN 55022 for ITE? Bear in mind this is in the hospital operating room. I am familiar with medical equipment requirements but not so much with ITE, so forgive me if I'm making mistakes here. My thoughts are all from the regulatory point of view. Of course if the customer wants compliance with a more stringent requirement, that is what he gets... I appreciate all your thoughts/comments! -Delphina At 09:10 AM 2/19/2003 -0800, Han, Delphina wrote: Hi I am trying to find out safety requirements for devices that control and monitor equipment in a hospital lab (used for pathology). Does it fall under the IEC 61010 standard? If so, are there any requirements for use of isolation transformers in that standard? Thanks in advance for your response! -Delphina --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Harmonics Testing for PCs
I read in !emc-pstc that Lesmeister, Glenn glenn.lesmeis...@hp.com wrote (in 31891b757c09184bbfec5275f85d559502d1d...@cceexc18.americas.cp qcorp.net) about 'Harmonics Testing for PCs' on Thu, 20 Feb 2003: The problem with class A limits is that the higher your power draw, the lower your relative limits are. As you get between 600 and 1000W, class D limits can be higher than class A limits in which you might pass (depending on how bad you were failing). Class D limits include maximum currents equal to the Class A limits, but Clause 5 of the standard limits Class D to products with active input power not exceeding 600 W. So you can't apply Class D limits above 600 W. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: About Radiated Measurements
Muriel, What is the size of the equipment the power supplies will fit into? Can this be tested within you GTEM cell? I would prefer to put cables and load into the GTEM cell. I am using a GTEM cell for quite a while for pre-compliance testing and made good experiences. There are - as already pointed out - some things to take care of: - Cables connected to the EUT exiting the GTEM cell and other cables with in the cell have a great influence on the result from their positioning within the GTEM cell and their filtering when going outside. - To get an impression of the relevance of your testing choose an EUT that fits completely in your GTEM cell and conduct a comparative measurement on an OATS. - If you are doubting a result repaeat the test - I do not know what parameters you are using for a prescan - there are peaks which might occur due to a single event when you do a peak measurement and others might not be there. The measurement time has a great influence on the recording of short time events (yawn, I know, but I stress this point as I forget it often myself :-| ) But - before you put it in - what is the maximum thermal load for an EUT within your GTEM cell? Please excuse if I touched points that you already considered. For a better testing repeatability of EUTs with many cables within GTEM cells there are manipulator arms with cable guides. Schaffner is one of the manufacturers of such things. Best regards, Michael Nagel -Original Message- From: Muriel Bittencourt de Liz [mailto:mur...@eel.ufsc.br] Sent: Donnerstag, 20. Februar 2003 19:52 To: EMC-PSTC List Subject: About Radiated Measurements Group, I have a doubt concerning radiated emissions measurement: - For radiated emissions measurement of switched mode power supplies using a TEM cell, should I leave the loads of the supply inside or outside the cell?? My TEM cell have filtered connections for DC loads. Thanks in advance for your help. Best Regards, Muriel --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: IEC 61010 requirements
George Strictly speaking, I suppose you are correct in saying that 60601-1-1 is for medical electrical systems, but it also gives a good insight into the rationales behind the need to apply the medical standards, or allow use of equipment to non-medical standards. Therefore, if you are trying to understand where the distinction comes, then it can assist you in making a rationale and defensible decision on the choice of the standards to apply. As far as I can judge it was created to a large extent because of this confusion as to where to make that distinction, and to allow the use of commercial equipment in those locations where it is obviously safe enough. By comparison, if you (or any one else for that matter!) can cast your mind back some 20-25 years we were stuck (in the UK) with the infamous DHSS Hospital Technical Memorandum No 8 (HTM8)which was intended to apply to truely medical equipment but was often applied to anything in a hospital. That was a b* of a standard - very prescriptive and impossible for much non-medical equipment to meet (e.g. EVERY exposed metal part had to be earthed to a heavy current withstand level, regardless of whether there was any chance of it being energised under fault conditions or not - trying earthing the stainless steel metal paper catcher frame for an old line-printer to that requirement (almost impossible)!!). Therefore with the development of IEC601 (now 60601) the reins were loosened a bit to allow the acceptance of commercial standards-compliant equipment in some areas of medical facilities - that in turn lead to confusion as to where the decision point lies. But seeing 60601-1-1 for the first time a few years ago, it certainly made sense as a very useful guidance document for the selection of the required compliance standard - regardless of whether or not there was/is a medical system involved. EMC, on the other hand, is an entirely different issue as radiated EM effects can spread much further than the relatively short distances envisaged in 60601-1-1, and thus compliance with medical EMC standards may well be a requirement to ensure non-interference with the true medical equipment near to where the non-medical equipment is located. That could be a problem - which now appears to be addressed by another thread! (And system reliability for safety reasons is another area which I am also not going to get into here!) Regards John Allen From: George Brimlow [mailto:george.brim...@nottingham.ac.uk] Sent: 20 February 2003 17:40 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC 61010 requirements Hi, In response to John Allen's comment, my understanding would be that the medical electrical systems standard (60601-1-1) doesn't really help you here. This standard covers the situation where you have a system of either interconnected electrical medical equipment or a mixed system of interconnected electrical medical equipment and other equipment (e.g. IT). The standard outlines additional measures that may be required for the system to ensure that the patient safety is not impaired by the fact that the electrical medical equipment (meeting 60601-1) is connected to non-medical equipment (meeting e.g. 60950, 61010) or by the fact that the non-medical equipment may be within the patient environment. This is separate to the issue of whether an individual item of equipment is classed as medical. The standard could be relevant though if your equipment were required to be connected to medical equipment. Hope that helps, Regards, -- Dr George Brimlow, Principal Clinical Scientist Medical Physics Dept Queen's Medical Centre Nottingham, NG7 2UH UK Tel. +44(0)115 924 9924 ext 44889 Fax +44(0)115 942 2745 george.brim...@nottingham.ac.uk Hi Folks The basic answers to the questions of which items of medical equipment are, and are not, required to be compliant to 60601 are given in EN 60601-1-1 Medical electrical equipment Part 1-1: General requirements for safety. Collateral standard: Safety requirements for medical electrical systems This describes the requirements and has diagrams to illustrate the various combinations of 60601 and non-60601 equipments. Regards John Allen -Original Message- From: Han, Delphina [mailto:d...@strykerendo.com] Hi I am trying to find out safety requirements for devices that control and monitor equipment in a hospital lab (used for pathology). Does it fall under the IEC 61010 standard? If so, are there any requirements for use of isolation transformers in that standard? Thanks in advance for your response! -Delphina This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard:
Re: Harmonics Testing for PCs
I read in !emc-pstc that rbus...@es.com wrote (in B47A89AEC4538744B9D94 bad7e78efc7458...@torino.corp.es.com) about 'Harmonics Testing for PCs' on Thu, 20 Feb 2003: As for the limits, we are using A. I understand that D is used exclusively for ITE and has tighter limits. You said that the product: QUOTE has essentially 6 rack mounted PCs and a custom designed graphics processor. ENDQUOTE If that isn't ITE, I don't know what is. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Temp chamber
Hi Dave, Contact me (see below) I have a few test houses that perhaps can help him. Frank Frank Krozel, Technical Representative Voice: 630-924-1600 Fax: 630-924-1668 Cell: 630-890-5421 24/7 hours Home: 630-653-9090 Electronic Instrument Associates-Central, Inc. website: http://www.electronicinstrument.com Serving the Midwest since 1971 with Electrical Engineers Join the IEEE today, look to http://www.ieee.org for details - Original Message - From: Dave mailto:davewilson...@yahoo.com Wilson To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:10 PM Subject: Temp chamber Hello Group, An ex-colleague of mine is looking to use a temperature chamber for a short time to do some tests, in the Bay Area. Anyone know of a way of doing this without too much expense? Thanks in advance, Dave Wilson _ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! http://rd.yahoo.com/finance/mailtagline/*http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more
RE: Temp chamber
I think Sanmenia ( sorry about the spelling or lack of it) is a local lab as well, and they sit on this forum. Gary From: Sylvia Toma [mailto:st...@juniper.net] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:59 PM To: Dave Wilson; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Temp chamber Hello Dave, To name a few: 1.Quanta Laboratories 2.Wyle Laboratores 3.Underwriters Laboratories (UL) These three lab. are all located in Santa Clara. Sylvia From: Dave Wilson [mailto:davewilson...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 11:11 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Temp chamber Hello Group, An ex-colleague of mine is looking to use a temperature chamber for a short time to do some tests, in the Bay Area. Anyone know of a way of doing this without too much expense? Thanks in advance, Dave Wilson _ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! http://rd.yahoo.com/finance/mailtagline/*http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more
RE: Temp chamber
Dave, We occasionally use Westpak in San Jose when our own chambers are full. The web link is http://www.westpak.com/environment.htm -Delphina From: Dave Wilson [mailto:davewilson...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 11:11 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Temp chamber Hello Group, An ex-colleague of mine is looking to use a temperature chamber for a short time to do some tests, in the Bay Area. Anyone know of a way of doing this without too much expense? Thanks in advance, Dave Wilson Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: (Fwd) RE: IEC 61010 requirements
Hello Jon, Thanks for the clarification. This helps in understanding which safety standards may be applied to a medical device based on its intended use. Therefore, it is very important that we understand what a medical device is versus medical equipment or laboratory equipment, as they are defined by regulatory authorities and standards development organizations. Unfortunately, we may use medical device and medical equipment interchangeably and unintentionally confuse people, just like I did. Best regards, Ron Wellman At 06:58 PM 2/20/2003 +0200, Jon Griver wrote: Ron, Classification of in-vitro devices as medical equipment, requiring regulatory approval, does not influence the choice of product safety standard to be used. If it does not fall within the scope of IEC 60601-1, and is only used in the lab, then IEC 61010 should be used, though IEC 60950 would probably be acceptable if the instrument is based on a PC. Regards, Jon Griver http://www.601help.com The Medical Device Developers Guide to IEC 60601-1 Hello Greg, I have to disagree with your interpretation. There are many in vitro devices that are classified as medical equipment and are subject to pre-market approvals in the US, Japan, and EU. There are strict regulations on labeling products in the US where even advertising is considered labeling. It's not as simple as contacting a live human, there are many other factors involved based on regulations and interpretations of regulatory authorities. Best regards, Ron Wellman At 11:15 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, Gregg Kervill wrote: Does it contact a live human - if answer no - it is not medical equipment. The purpose for the medical device directive is to protect people for harm or infection - being alive would seem to be essential for this. G --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc --- End of forwarded message --- --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
