Re: Cables On The Floor

[Derek Walton]

HI Ed,

you should know that managers are full of hot air,and are therefore 
lighter than engineers and techs

Derek

PS, folks, this was meant as a joke...

Price, Edward wrote:
>  
>  
>
> 
> *From:* emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Gert Gremmen
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:23 PM
> *To:* Pettit, Ghery; Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
> *Subject:* RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs
>
>  Of course once your gold-plated coaxial connectors wear out, and
> your cables became flat from standing on it,
> you will see all kind of spurious outdoor signals in  your result.
>
> Gert Gremmen 
>
>  
>
> Although I am naturally pessimistic, I am not superstitious. However, 
> how else to explain the near magical capabilities of a cable laying on 
> the floor to attract human feet? 
>
> If I lay a BNC or SMA cable (assuming 1/4" cross section by 10 foot 
> exposure length) onto the working area (about 16' by 12'), the cable 
> occupies only 30/27,468, or only about 0.11% of the floor area. 
> The typical human feet cover 4" by 12" by 2, or 96 square inches. So 
> there are 27,468/48, or  286, places where you can step in the room.
>
> You would think that the odds of stepping on the cable would be 285 to 
> 1. But from experience, as you talk with a visitor in the chamber, how 
> many times have you looked down to see one of their feet planted 
> squarely across a cable? Indeed, it's not all that remarkable for a 
> visitor to managed coverage with both feet. Or to amble along the 
> cable as if it were some kind of guidance wire!
>
> Some programs attract a disproportionate amount of official 
> (management) visitors, and it was during one of those that I 
> implemented my experiment with sacrificial cables. After walking each 
> visitor into my chamber, while repeating the mantra of "please be 
> careful not to step on a cable" and pointing at a cable so that they 
> understand what a cable looks like, I began to notice the mathematical 
> anomaly of non-random foot placement.
>
> I decided to test my suspicions, so, as we moved into conducted 
> susceptibility testing, I laid four BNC cables around the chamber 
> working area. (These were cables accumulated during the radiated 
> emission test; cables which had endured numerous verified foot 
> stomps.) Then I began watching the visitor pattern.
>
> I wish I had kept accurate data, for I'm sure that I could have 
> produced a very important and controversial paper (that could have 
> given me a decent vacation for its presentation). However, I am left 
> with only the subjective memory of those trials. I concluded that 
> cables have some kind of unexplained power to strongly direct the 
> human mind to place a foot over a cable whenever the physical 
> opportunity is available.
>
> Although I never conducted further trials, I have speculated as to the 
> attractive mechanism that causes this. I wonder if it may somehow be 
> related to the technique by which cows are kept off of a roadway (cows 
> will not cross a couple of parallel painted stripes on the ground). 
> True, this would be an inverse relationship, as cables attract the 
> foot, but I think I'm really onto something important here.
>
> BTW, the test cables were all later found to be in acceptable 
> condition, and were returned to service. I must assume that either I 
> am being too alarmist about the dangers of stepping on a cable, or, my 
> management just leaves no lasting impression on physical reality. More 
> studies are needed!
>
>  
>
> */Ed Price/*
> *ed.pr...@cubic.com* mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com>* WB6WSN*
> *NARTE Certified EMC Engineer*
> *Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab*
> *Cubic Defense Applications*
> *San Diego, CA  USA*
> *858-505-2780*
> */Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty/*
> -
> 
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Cables On The Floor

[Price, Edward]

 
 




From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Gert 
Gremmen
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:23 PM
To: Pettit, Ghery; Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs



 Of course once your gold-plated coaxial connectors wear out, and your 
cables
became flat from standing on it,
you will see all kind of spurious outdoor signals in  your result.

Gert Gremmen 

 

Although I am naturally pessimistic, I am not superstitious. However, how else
to explain the near magical capabilities of a cable laying on the floor to
attract human feet? 

If I lay a BNC or SMA cable (assuming 1/4" cross section by 10 foot exposure
length) onto the working area (about 16' by 12'), the cable occupies only
30/27,468, or only about 0.11% of the floor area. The typical human feet cover
4" by 12" by 2, or 96 square inches. So there are 27,468/48, or  286, places
where you can step in the room.

You would think that the odds of stepping on the cable would be 285 to 1. But
>from experience, as you talk with a visitor in the chamber, how many times
have you looked down to see one of their feet planted squarely across a cable?
Indeed, it's not all that remarkable for a visitor to managed coverage with
both feet. Or to amble along the cable as if it were some kind of guidance
wire!

Some programs attract a disproportionate amount of official (management)
visitors, and it was during one of those that I implemented my experiment with
sacrificial cables. After walking each visitor into my chamber, while
repeating the mantra of "please be careful not to step on a cable" and
pointing at a cable so that they understand what a cable looks like, I began
to notice the mathematical anomaly of non-random foot placement.

I decided to test my suspicions, so, as we moved into conducted susceptibility
testing, I laid four BNC cables around the chamber working area. (These were
cables accumulated during the radiated emission test; cables which had endured
numerous verified foot stomps.) Then I began watching the visitor pattern.

I wish I had kept accurate data, for I'm sure that I could have produced a
very important and controversial paper (that could have given me a decent
vacation for its presentation). However, I am left with only the subjective
memory of those trials. I concluded that cables have some kind of unexplained
power to strongly direct the human mind to place a foot over a cable whenever
the physical opportunity is available.

Although I never conducted further trials, I have speculated as to the
attractive mechanism that causes this. I wonder if it may somehow be related
to the technique by which cows are kept off of a roadway (cows will not cross
a couple of parallel painted stripes on the ground). True, this would be an
inverse relationship, as cables attract the foot, but I think I'm really onto
something important here.

BTW, the test cables were all later found to be in acceptable condition, and
were returned to service. I must assume that either I am being too alarmist
about the dangers of stepping on a cable, or, my management just leaves no
lasting impression on physical reality. More studies are needed!

 

Ed Price
ed.pr...@cubic.com mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com>  WB6WSN
NARTE Certified EMC Engineer
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
Cubic Defense Applications
San Diego, CA  USA
858-505-2780
Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty
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RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Conway, Patrick R (bNB Houston)]

That comment makes me think of the interference possibility from different TX
waveforms.

 

 I am curious- has anyone seen correlation between 

levels or quantity of interference

vs

the two phone types:  CDMA and GSM ?

 

 

In a non-lab environment, the actual interference from GSM is orders of
magnitude larger than CDMA.  

But what about in the lab environment?  

 

 

 

Best Regards,

Patrick.

p.con...@hp.com

281-514-2259

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:46 PM
To: ieee
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

 

Similar problem in our lab. The signal path between the cell tower and the
cell phone is so weak that the output from the cell phone is near max (my cell
phone battery drains pretty quickly as a result) which makes it easier for the
analyzer to pick it up.  Better quality cables have helped, but I always turn
off my cell phone when making radiated scans. I've never seen a problem with
any other tests.

 

Bob Richards, NCT.



--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Bill Owsley  wrote:

 

We used to pick up the cell phones, but then we fixed the cables and
connectors and now no more problems.  We routinely use cell phones while
testing and they are good indication when something is broken.

.

 

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RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Bob Richards]

Similar problem in our lab. The signal path between the cell tower and the
cell phone is so weak that the output from the cell phone is near max (my cell
phone battery drains pretty quickly as a result) which makes it easier for the
analyzer to pick it up.  Better quality cables have helped, but I always turn
off my cell phone when making radiated scans. I've never seen a problem with
any other tests.
 
Bob Richards, NCT.


--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Bill Owsley  wrote:



We used to pick up the cell phones, but then we fixed the cables and
connectors and now no more problems.  We routinely use cell phones while
testing and they are good indication when something is broken.
.

 
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When UL component recognition is not enough.

[Robert Johnson]

I have a complaint about a certification process where agencies are 
providing approvals of little value. There are products for sale which 
have been reviewed (for example) to UL 1950, and are currently being 
manufactured and UL recognized. UL 1950 is a withdrawn standard, 
replaced by UL 60950. I have no problem with that since UL has conducted 
an IEC Sector Review Process which assures the product has no safety 
shortcomings with regard to the current standards. For standard changes 
affecting safety, a requirement effective date – RED is established and 
applied to the product.

However a company wishing to use this product has a problem with the 
component recognition since it is to a withdrawn standard as is stated 
in the Certification Directory. The company using the component must 
either have the component manufacturer resubmit, or have the component 
reassessed as part of the end product evaluation.

The result is, the component recognition is of no value to the new 
customer even though UL has gone through the work of assuring the 
component has no shortcomings with regard to the current standard. 
Apparently UL is reserving the step of updating the paperwork as an 
income source.

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Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[John Woodgate]

In message <00bc01c95a3b$6e8d8af0$4ba8a0d0$@com>, dated Tue, 9 Dec 2008, 
dward  writes:


>the numbers can be reproduced within a reasonable expectations

But what are 'reasonable'? Just one example, a cable can be moved and 
change an emission level by 10 dB; this is not weird, it's perfectly 
explainable by antenna theory. Measurements on equipment that doesn't 
have cables are much more repeatable.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Gert Gremmen]

Isn’t that the Modern/EMC version of

Bad news, kill the messenger ?

The shielding of even older measurement receivers of a decent brand (guess
which ones I think of)
 is enough to cut out a cellular even when very close.
 Of course once your gold-plated coaxial connectors wear out, and your cables
became flat from standing on it,
you will see all kind of spurious outdoor signals in  your result.

Seeing outdoor signals is just a sign that your measurement setup need
review/fixing.

For the preselector problem, get it fixed !!!

I notice sometimes 10-15 dBuV of 900/950 MHz GSM signals
getting trough when more then 4-5 cables protrude
our rooms wall, and filtering is done “on the fly….”.

Gert Gremmen

 

 

Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Pettit, Ghery
Verzonden: dinsdag 9 december 2008 16:55
Aan: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Onderwerp: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

 

I would.  Shielding of receivers isn’t perfect.  We have signs banning them
in our labs.  Don’t know how well enforced it is.  J   Guess I’ll have to
check the next time I do a quality audit.  J  J

Ghery Pettit

 

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Luke Turnbull
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:22 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

 

Hi all,

 

Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside our test
chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, spectrum analysers,
receivers etc.)?

 

Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke Turnbull

 

Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited 

Registered in England, No. 872948 

Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX 

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RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[dward]

Sorry but I would have to disagree with you on that.  In the surveillance
end, we find that if a device submitted for certification has been properly
tested by qualified engineers under proper control, even on automated
systems, the numbers can be reproduced within a reasonable expectations,
whereas uncontrolled testing by inexperienced engineers using automated
systems alone tend to produce a very wide difference in what is measured.

If you remember back to the days of yesteryear, some of the biggest problems
were uncontrolled setups, uncontrolled testing procedures, uncontrolled
engineering practice etc.  What we seem to be reintroducing in the automated
test systems is the uncontrolled factor once again.  Turn the system on go
get coffee and let it do whatever it does and come back to some set of
numbers to which we have no idea if they are right wrong or within
reasonable variations.

Thanks 

 

Dennis Ward 
Director of Engineering 
American TCB 
Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry www.atcb.com 
703-847-4700 fax 703-847-6888 
direct - 703-880-4841 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John
Woodgate
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:58 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

In message <00b201c95a35$f528d430$df7a7c90$@com>, dated Tue, 9 Dec 2008, 
dward  writes:


>Automation, without proper control, only gives a lot of paper with 
>meaningless unsubstantiated number.

Doesn't matter, because most of the test methods are either artificial 
or unrepeatable, so even manual measurements give meaningless 
unsubstantiated numbers.

Pardon my cynicism. The only justification for what we do is that it 
works in practice.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop
it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You
choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[John Woodgate]

In message <00b201c95a35$f528d430$df7a7c90$@com>, dated Tue, 9 Dec 2008, 
dward  writes:


>Automation, without proper control, only gives a lot of paper with 
>meaningless unsubstantiated number.

Doesn't matter, because most of the test methods are either artificial 
or unrepeatable, so even manual measurements give meaningless 
unsubstantiated numbers.

Pardon my cynicism. The only justification for what we do is that it 
works in practice.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[dward]

Whatever happened to the time when a good engineer could repair his own
dipole, fix minor front end analyzer problems, be able to tell the
difference between 20dBm and 20dBuV, know what dBm and dBuV meant,
understand you can't put the output of a 100W transmitter directly into the
front end of the measuring instrument without proper attenuation,
understanding what attenuation was, understand what was actually happening
during a test automated or otherwise.  

In the rush for speed, we lost a lot.  Automation, under control, can be a
good thing.  Automation, without proper control, only gives a lot of paper
with meaningless unsubstantiated number.

Of course that is just my opinion.  

Dennis Ward 
Director of Engineering 
American TCB 
Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry www.atcb.com 
703-847-4700 fax 703-847-6888 
direct - 703-880-4841 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pettit,
Ghery
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:47 AM
To: Kunde, Brian; Derek Walton
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

At least your tech was there.  We'd have him doing something else while the
chamber took care of itself.  :-)  Multitasking, that's the name of the
game.



From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:45 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery; Derek Walton
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

Today, I walk by the test station; the EUT has fallen off the table and
is on fire, the sprinklers have shot down through the ceiling spraying
950 gallons of water per minute in to the chamber, the mast rope got
twisted on the pulley and broke, the BiConLog antenna is smashed on the
floor in a hundred pieces, all while the technician is playing a fishing
game on his IPHONE.

Oh, what I wouldn't give for the good ol' days. I'm not asking for much,
just to pay attention to what is going on even during an automated scan.




From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:50 PM
To: Kunde, Brian; Derek Walton
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

Ah, for the good old days when the receiver was tuned by hand, one hand
on the tuning knob, the other on the IF gain / slide back / RF
attenuator.  Note the level on the scope, disconnect the antenna and
connect the IG, adjust the IG to match the level noted on the scope and
write that number down.  Apply antenna factor by hand and move to the
next signal.

Naw!  I like automated tests.  At least in an ambient free environment
like a chamber.  But, you should have your techs do it by hand a few
times so they'll really appreciate the automation.  And, did I mention
that sometimes you did the old way in really "interesting" places?
Like, Adak?  :-)

Ghery



From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:45 AM
To: Derek Walton; Pettit, Ghery
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

You bring up a good point. You must control your environment if there is
any possible way changes in that environment can affect or even put into
doubt your test results.

We have done hours of testing then realize a customer had been playing a
PSP game system in the area. Now whether it affected our test results or
not, it had put our test results into doubt.  So we had to perform more
testing to verify our results.

So, I would make it clear to customers, engineers, and even your own
testers that no additional electronic devices are to be introduced into
your testing environment unless it has been verified not to affect the
test results.

I also agree that a good and well trained test technician should be able
to notice and track down any new emission source within a reasonable
amount of time, but within an automated test system like ours, they tend
to get a little lazy. Push a button, get a cup of coffee.  Man I hate
that.

The Other Brian



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek
Walton
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:21 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

Hi all,

just a thought If you're an accredited lab you are supposed to
evaluate your working environment: I'd include Cell phones in this.

Now, I hate banning things, so my first thought is that whoever is
running testing should know about mobile Transmitters, from Door openers

to cell phones. This is a topic I always discuss when Assessing.

Just because things are banned doesn't mean they will not be present.

In my lab I use the 4 module HP system, and Sucoflex cables. I do not
see signals related to the cell phone in this system. I did when I used
low cost cables. I am not advocating the used of a particular brand,
just good cables.

The power to the four modules is passed through a Xantrex super
isolation transformer also: just cos'.

Seasons greetings,

RE: References for Three Phase Power Around the World

[Bill Stumpf]

The US Department of Commerce/ITA has a published document at:
http://ita.doc.gov/td/machinery/reports/current2002FINAL.pdf
 
Bill Stumpf
D.L.S. Electronic Systems, Inc.
EMC Testing & Consulting
166 South Carter Street
Genoa City WI, 53128
262-279-0210
 


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Momcilovic,
Nick (GE Healthcare)
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:43 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: References for Three Phase Power Around the World


Anyone have any good references for standard 3 phase power (voltage/frequency)
around the world.  I have seen several references (i.e., Interpower) that have
nice reference charts for single phase, but not 3 phase.  Right now I am
particularly interested in Korea.
 
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,
Nick Momcilovic 
GE Healthcare 
Standards Compliance/Certification Lead Engineer, MR 

T  262.521.6426 
D  *320-6426 
C  262.527.1965 
F  262.521.6549 
E  nick.momcilo...@ge.com 
www.gehealthcare.com 

3200 N Grandview Blvd, W-827 
Waukesha, WI  53188-1693 

-

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RE: References for Three Phase Power Around the World

[Don Gies]

Nick,

 

 

Try “Electric Current Abroad,” published by the US Department of Commerce,
International Trade Administration.

 

The link for a free pdf copy is below.  Click on “pdf format” next to
“Online”

 

http://www.ita.doc.gov/media/Publications/blurbs/current2002blurb.html

 

 

Also, if you click on the link “Updates to this volume are available” at
the bottom of the page, you will be lead to a pull-down menu of each country,
as well as world voltage, frequency, plug-use, and frequency stability maps
under “characteristics of electric currents.” 

 

Best Regards,

 

Don Gies, N.C.E

Senior Product Compliance Engineer

Alcatel-Lucent

Murray Hill, NJ  07974-0636 USA

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Momcilovic, Nick (GE Healthcare) [mailto:nick.momcilo...@ge.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: References for Three Phase Power Around the World

 

Anyone have any good references for standard 3 phase power (voltage/frequency)
around the world.  I have seen several references (i.e., Interpower) that have
nice reference charts for single phase, but not 3 phase.  Right now I am
particularly interested in Korea.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Kind regards,

Nick Momcilovic 
GE Healthcare 
Standards Compliance/Certification Lead Engineer, MR 

T  262.521.6426 
D  *320-6426 
C  262.527.1965 
F  262.521.6549 
E  nick.momcilo...@ge.com 
www.gehealthcare.com 

3200 N Grandview Blvd, W-827 
Waukesha, WI  53188-1693 

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


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Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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For policy questions, send mail to:
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RE: References for Three Phase Power Around the World

[Marko Radojicic]

Here are all the references that I use. A brief scan doesn’t show any 3
phase requirements however.

 

http://www.kropla.com/electric2.htm

http://www.dbicorporation.com/internat/internat.htm

http://ita.doc.gov/td/machinery/reports/current2002FINAL.pdf

 

…Marko

 

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Momcilovic,
Nick (GE Healthcare)
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:43 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: References for Three Phase Power Around the World

 

Anyone have any good references for standard 3 phase power (voltage/frequency)
around the world.  I have seen several references (i.e., Interpower) that have
nice reference charts for single phase, but not 3 phase.  Right now I am
particularly interested in Korea.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Kind regards,

Nick Momcilovic 
GE Healthcare 
Standards Compliance/Certification Lead Engineer, MR 

T  262.521.6426 
D  *320-6426 
C  262.527.1965 
F  262.521.6549 
E  nick.momcilo...@ge.com 
www.gehealthcare.com 

3200 N Grandview Blvd, W-827 
Waukesha, WI  53188-1693 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


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RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Pettit, Ghery]

At least your tech was there.  We'd have him doing something else while the 
chamber took care of itself.  :-)  Multitasking, that's the name of the game.



From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:45 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery; Derek Walton
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

Today, I walk by the test station; the EUT has fallen off the table and
is on fire, the sprinklers have shot down through the ceiling spraying
950 gallons of water per minute in to the chamber, the mast rope got
twisted on the pulley and broke, the BiConLog antenna is smashed on the
floor in a hundred pieces, all while the technician is playing a fishing
game on his IPHONE.  

Oh, what I wouldn't give for the good ol' days. I'm not asking for much,
just to pay attention to what is going on even during an automated scan.




From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:50 PM
To: Kunde, Brian; Derek Walton
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

Ah, for the good old days when the receiver was tuned by hand, one hand
on the tuning knob, the other on the IF gain / slide back / RF
attenuator.  Note the level on the scope, disconnect the antenna and
connect the IG, adjust the IG to match the level noted on the scope and
write that number down.  Apply antenna factor by hand and move to the
next signal.

Naw!  I like automated tests.  At least in an ambient free environment
like a chamber.  But, you should have your techs do it by hand a few
times so they'll really appreciate the automation.  And, did I mention
that sometimes you did the old way in really "interesting" places?
Like, Adak?  :-)

Ghery



From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:45 AM
To: Derek Walton; Pettit, Ghery
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

You bring up a good point. You must control your environment if there is
any possible way changes in that environment can affect or even put into
doubt your test results.  

We have done hours of testing then realize a customer had been playing a
PSP game system in the area. Now whether it affected our test results or
not, it had put our test results into doubt.  So we had to perform more
testing to verify our results. 

So, I would make it clear to customers, engineers, and even your own
testers that no additional electronic devices are to be introduced into
your testing environment unless it has been verified not to affect the
test results.

I also agree that a good and well trained test technician should be able
to notice and track down any new emission source within a reasonable
amount of time, but within an automated test system like ours, they tend
to get a little lazy. Push a button, get a cup of coffee.  Man I hate
that.

The Other Brian



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek
Walton
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:21 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

Hi all,

just a thought If you're an accredited lab you are supposed to 
evaluate your working environment: I'd include Cell phones in this.

Now, I hate banning things, so my first thought is that whoever is 
running testing should know about mobile Transmitters, from Door openers

to cell phones. This is a topic I always discuss when Assessing.

Just because things are banned doesn't mean they will not be present.

In my lab I use the 4 module HP system, and Sucoflex cables. I do not 
see signals related to the cell phone in this system. I did when I used 
low cost cables. I am not advocating the used of a particular brand, 
just good cables.

The power to the four modules is passed through a Xantrex super 
isolation transformer also: just cos'.

Seasons greetings,

Derek Walton
L F Research

Pettit, Ghery wrote:
>
> I would. Shielding of receivers isn't perfect. We have signs banning 
> them in our labs. Don't know how well enforced it is. J Guess I'll 
> have to check the next time I do a quality audit. J J
>
> Ghery Pettit
>
>

>
> *From:* emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *Luke Turnbull
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:22 AM
> *To:* emc-p...@ieee.org
> *Subject:* Mobile Phones in EMC Labs
>
> Hi all,
>
> Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside 
> our test chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, 
> spectrum analysers, receivers etc.)?
>
> Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Luke Turnbull
>
> Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited
>
> Registered in England, No. 872948
>
> Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a

RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Kunde, Brian]

Today, I walk by the test station; the EUT has fallen off the table and
is on fire, the sprinklers have shot down through the ceiling spraying
950 gallons of water per minute in to the chamber, the mast rope got
twisted on the pulley and broke, the BiConLog antenna is smashed on the
floor in a hundred pieces, all while the technician is playing a fishing
game on his IPHONE.  

Oh, what I wouldn't give for the good ol' days. I'm not asking for much,
just to pay attention to what is going on even during an automated scan.




From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:50 PM
To: Kunde, Brian; Derek Walton
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

Ah, for the good old days when the receiver was tuned by hand, one hand
on the tuning knob, the other on the IF gain / slide back / RF
attenuator.  Note the level on the scope, disconnect the antenna and
connect the IG, adjust the IG to match the level noted on the scope and
write that number down.  Apply antenna factor by hand and move to the
next signal.

Naw!  I like automated tests.  At least in an ambient free environment
like a chamber.  But, you should have your techs do it by hand a few
times so they'll really appreciate the automation.  And, did I mention
that sometimes you did the old way in really "interesting" places?
Like, Adak?  :-)

Ghery



From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:45 AM
To: Derek Walton; Pettit, Ghery
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

You bring up a good point. You must control your environment if there is
any possible way changes in that environment can affect or even put into
doubt your test results.  

We have done hours of testing then realize a customer had been playing a
PSP game system in the area. Now whether it affected our test results or
not, it had put our test results into doubt.  So we had to perform more
testing to verify our results. 

So, I would make it clear to customers, engineers, and even your own
testers that no additional electronic devices are to be introduced into
your testing environment unless it has been verified not to affect the
test results.

I also agree that a good and well trained test technician should be able
to notice and track down any new emission source within a reasonable
amount of time, but within an automated test system like ours, they tend
to get a little lazy. Push a button, get a cup of coffee.  Man I hate
that.

The Other Brian



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek
Walton
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:21 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

Hi all,

just a thought If you're an accredited lab you are supposed to 
evaluate your working environment: I'd include Cell phones in this.

Now, I hate banning things, so my first thought is that whoever is 
running testing should know about mobile Transmitters, from Door openers

to cell phones. This is a topic I always discuss when Assessing.

Just because things are banned doesn't mean they will not be present.

In my lab I use the 4 module HP system, and Sucoflex cables. I do not 
see signals related to the cell phone in this system. I did when I used 
low cost cables. I am not advocating the used of a particular brand, 
just good cables.

The power to the four modules is passed through a Xantrex super 
isolation transformer also: just cos'.

Seasons greetings,

Derek Walton
L F Research

Pettit, Ghery wrote:
>
> I would. Shielding of receivers isn't perfect. We have signs banning 
> them in our labs. Don't know how well enforced it is. J Guess I'll 
> have to check the next time I do a quality audit. J J
>
> Ghery Pettit
>
>

>
> *From:* emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *Luke Turnbull
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:22 AM
> *To:* emc-p...@ieee.org
> *Subject:* Mobile Phones in EMC Labs
>
> Hi all,
>
> Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside 
> our test chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, 
> spectrum analysers, receivers etc.)?
>
> Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Luke Turnbull
>
> Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited
>
> Registered in England, No. 872948
>
> Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
> e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at 
> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
> Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to 
> that URL.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-gu

References for Three Phase Power Around the World

[Momcilovic, Nick (GE Healthcare)]

Anyone have any good references for standard 3 phase power (voltage/frequency)
around the world.  I have seen several references (i.e., Interpower) that have
nice reference charts for single phase, but not 3 phase.  Right now I am
particularly interested in Korea.
 
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,
Nick Momcilovic 
GE Healthcare 
Standards Compliance/Certification Lead Engineer, MR 

T  262.521.6426 
D  *320-6426 
C  262.527.1965 
F  262.521.6549 
E  nick.momcilo...@ge.com 
www.gehealthcare.com 

3200 N Grandview Blvd, W-827 
Waukesha, WI  53188-1693 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at
http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. 

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  

RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Grasso, Charles]

I would say that if you experience problems then – yes. If not – then no.
If you are having problems then you probably need to do a little research
and see if there any issues with your lab.

 

Chas.

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Luke Turnbull
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:22 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

 

Hi all,

 

Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside our test
chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, spectrum analysers,
receivers etc.)?

 

Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke Turnbull

 

Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited 

Registered in England, No. 872948 

Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at
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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. 

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Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  

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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at
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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. 

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Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
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For policy questions, send mail to:
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RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Bill Owsley]

See;
CISPR 16-1 © IEC:1999+A1:2002 – 33 –
4.1.8 Screening effectiveness
 
No problems here and our environment is EM noisy, don't leave the chamber door
open...   The EM noise ranges from 10's kHz to 10 GHz.
Maybe it's because all our equipment is OLD.  
ps. avoid BNC 90's.


- Bill
Indecision may or may not be the problem.

--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Pettit, Ghery  wrote:


From: Pettit, Ghery 
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs
To: "Kunde, Brian" , "Derek Walton"

Cc: "Luke Turnbull" , "emc-p...@ieee.org"

Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 12:50 PM


Ah, for the good old days when the receiver was tuned by hand, one hand 
on the
tuning knob, the other on the IF gain / slide back / RF attenuator.  
Note the
level on the scope, disconnect the antenna and connect the IG, adjust 
the IG
to
match the level noted on the scope and write that number down.  Apply 
antenna
factor by hand and move to the next signal.

Naw!  I like automated tests.  At least in an ambient free environment 
like a
chamber.  But, you should have your techs do it by hand a few times so
they'll really appreciate the automation.  And, did I mention that 
sometimes
you did the old way in really "interesting" places?  Like, Adak?  :-)

Ghery


-Original Message-
From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:45 AM
To: Derek Walton; Pettit, Ghery
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

You bring up a good point. You must control your environment if there is
any possible way changes in that environment can affect or even put into
doubt your test results.  

We have done hours of testing then realize a customer had been playing a
PSP game system in the area. Now whether it affected our test results or
not, it had put our test results into doubt.  So we had to perform more
testing to verify our results. 

So, I would make it clear to customers, engineers, and even your own
testers that no additional electronic devices are to be introduced into
your testing environment unless it has been verified not to affect the
test results.

I also agree that a good and well trained test technician should be able
to notice and track down any new emission source within a reasonable
amount of time, but within an automated test system like ours, they tend
to get a little lazy. Push a button, get a cup of coffee.  Man I hate
that.

The Other Brian


-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek
Walton
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:21 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

Hi all,

just a thought If you're an accredited lab you are supposed to 
evaluate your working environment: I'd include Cell phones in this.

Now, I hate banning things, so my first thought is that whoever is 
running testing should know about mobile Transmitters, from Door openers

to cell phones. This is a topic I always discuss when Assessing.

Just because things are banned doesn't mean they will not be present.

In my lab I use the 4 module HP system, and Sucoflex cables. I do not 
see signals related to the cell phone in this system. I did when I used 
low cost cables. I am not advocating the used of a particular brand, 
just good cables.

The power to the four modules is passed through a Xantrex super 
isolation transformer also: just cos'.

Seasons greetings,

Derek Walton
L F Research

Pettit, Ghery wrote:
>
> I would. Shielding of receivers isn't perfect. We have signs banning 
> them in our labs. Don't know how well enforced it is. J Guess I'll

> have to check the next time I do a quality audit. J J
>
> Ghery Pettit
>
>

>
> *From:* emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *Luke Turnbull
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:22 AM
> *To:* emc-p...@ieee.org
> *Subject:* Mobile Phones in EMC Labs
>
> Hi all,
>
> Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside 
> our test chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, 
> sp

RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Pettit, Ghery]

Ah, for the good old days when the receiver was tuned by hand, one hand on the 
tuning knob, the other on the IF gain / slide back / RF attenuator.  Note the 
level on the scope, disconnect the antenna and connect the IG, adjust the IG to 
match the level noted on the scope and write that number down.  Apply antenna 
factor by hand and move to the next signal.

Naw!  I like automated tests.  At least in an ambient free environment like a 
chamber.  But, you should have your techs do it by hand a few times so they'll 
really appreciate the automation.  And, did I mention that sometimes you did 
the old way in really "interesting" places?  Like, Adak?  :-)

Ghery



From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:45 AM
To: Derek Walton; Pettit, Ghery
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

You bring up a good point. You must control your environment if there is
any possible way changes in that environment can affect or even put into
doubt your test results.  

We have done hours of testing then realize a customer had been playing a
PSP game system in the area. Now whether it affected our test results or
not, it had put our test results into doubt.  So we had to perform more
testing to verify our results. 

So, I would make it clear to customers, engineers, and even your own
testers that no additional electronic devices are to be introduced into
your testing environment unless it has been verified not to affect the
test results.

I also agree that a good and well trained test technician should be able
to notice and track down any new emission source within a reasonable
amount of time, but within an automated test system like ours, they tend
to get a little lazy. Push a button, get a cup of coffee.  Man I hate
that.

The Other Brian



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek
Walton
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:21 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

Hi all,

just a thought If you're an accredited lab you are supposed to 
evaluate your working environment: I'd include Cell phones in this.

Now, I hate banning things, so my first thought is that whoever is 
running testing should know about mobile Transmitters, from Door openers

to cell phones. This is a topic I always discuss when Assessing.

Just because things are banned doesn't mean they will not be present.

In my lab I use the 4 module HP system, and Sucoflex cables. I do not 
see signals related to the cell phone in this system. I did when I used 
low cost cables. I am not advocating the used of a particular brand, 
just good cables.

The power to the four modules is passed through a Xantrex super 
isolation transformer also: just cos'.

Seasons greetings,

Derek Walton
L F Research

Pettit, Ghery wrote:
>
> I would. Shielding of receivers isn't perfect. We have signs banning 
> them in our labs. Don't know how well enforced it is. J Guess I'll 
> have to check the next time I do a quality audit. J J
>
> Ghery Pettit
>
>

>
> *From:* emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *Luke Turnbull
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:22 AM
> *To:* emc-p...@ieee.org
> *Subject:* Mobile Phones in EMC Labs
>
> Hi all,
>
> Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside 
> our test chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, 
> spectrum analysers, receivers etc.)?
>
> Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Luke Turnbull
>
> Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited
>
> Registered in England, No. 872948
>
> Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
> e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at 
> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
> Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to 
> that URL.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@ptcnh.net>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
> e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at 
> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
> Graphics (in well-used formats), large f

RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Kunde, Brian]

You bring up a good point. You must control your environment if there is
any possible way changes in that environment can affect or even put into
doubt your test results.  

We have done hours of testing then realize a customer had been playing a
PSP game system in the area. Now whether it affected our test results or
not, it had put our test results into doubt.  So we had to perform more
testing to verify our results. 

So, I would make it clear to customers, engineers, and even your own
testers that no additional electronic devices are to be introduced into
your testing environment unless it has been verified not to affect the
test results.

I also agree that a good and well trained test technician should be able
to notice and track down any new emission source within a reasonable
amount of time, but within an automated test system like ours, they tend
to get a little lazy. Push a button, get a cup of coffee.  Man I hate
that.

The Other Brian



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek
Walton
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:21 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

Hi all,

just a thought If you're an accredited lab you are supposed to 
evaluate your working environment: I'd include Cell phones in this.

Now, I hate banning things, so my first thought is that whoever is 
running testing should know about mobile Transmitters, from Door openers

to cell phones. This is a topic I always discuss when Assessing.

Just because things are banned doesn't mean they will not be present.

In my lab I use the 4 module HP system, and Sucoflex cables. I do not 
see signals related to the cell phone in this system. I did when I used 
low cost cables. I am not advocating the used of a particular brand, 
just good cables.

The power to the four modules is passed through a Xantrex super 
isolation transformer also: just cos'.

Seasons greetings,

Derek Walton
L F Research

Pettit, Ghery wrote:
>
> I would. Shielding of receivers isn't perfect. We have signs banning 
> them in our labs. Don't know how well enforced it is. J Guess I'll 
> have to check the next time I do a quality audit. J J
>
> Ghery Pettit
>
>

>
> *From:* emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *Luke Turnbull
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:22 AM
> *To:* emc-p...@ieee.org
> *Subject:* Mobile Phones in EMC Labs
>
> Hi all,
>
> Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside 
> our test chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, 
> spectrum analysers, receivers etc.)?
>
> Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Luke Turnbull
>
> Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited
>
> Registered in England, No. 872948
>
> Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
> e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at 
> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
> Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to 
> that URL.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@ptcnh.net>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
> e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at 
> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
> Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to 
> that URL.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@ptcnh.net>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
>

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that
URL.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request

RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Pettit, Ghery]

I don't think our labs are having a problem, either.  My point is that they 
have signs prohibiting phones past a certain point, and that might be low 
hanging fruit for my next audit.  Are they enforcing the sign?  Nothing was 
said late last month when I did the audit.  Next year - grin!


From: Sterner, David (NY80) [mailto:david.ster...@honeywell.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:18 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery; Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

Ghery -

Since we develop cellular products in our facility, there is a AT&T
(Cingular) repeater in the hallway adjacent to our 3-m chamber.  When
the preamplifier was external to the chamber the cable screen
transferred 900 MHz onto the graphical output (12-TT-position peak
hold).  The peaks were a nuisance because they exceeded the limit lines
and distracted the EMI software away from real EUT peaks.  

Problem was solved by installing the preamplifier and an RF switch (+12
V relay) inside the chamber.

David Sterner


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pettit,
Ghery
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:55 AM
To: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

I would.  Shielding of receivers isn't perfect.  We have signs banning
them in our labs.  Don't know how well enforced it is.  :-)   Guess I'll
have to check the next time I do a quality audit.  :-)  :-)

Ghery Pettit

 

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Luke
Turnbull
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:22 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

 

Hi all,

 

Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside our
test chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, spectrum
analysers, receivers etc.)?

 

Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke Turnbull

 

Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited 

Registered in England, No. 872948 

Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at
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URL. 

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Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  

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e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Sterner, David (NY80)]

Ghery -

Since we develop cellular products in our facility, there is a AT&T
(Cingular) repeater in the hallway adjacent to our 3-m chamber.  When
the preamplifier was external to the chamber the cable screen
transferred 900 MHz onto the graphical output (12-TT-position peak
hold).  The peaks were a nuisance because they exceeded the limit lines
and distracted the EMI software away from real EUT peaks.  

Problem was solved by installing the preamplifier and an RF switch (+12
V relay) inside the chamber.

David Sterner


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pettit,
Ghery
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:55 AM
To: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

I would.  Shielding of receivers isn't perfect.  We have signs banning
them in our labs.  Don't know how well enforced it is.  :-)   Guess I'll
have to check the next time I do a quality audit.  :-)  :-)

Ghery Pettit

 

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Luke
Turnbull
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:22 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

 

Hi all,

 

Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside our
test chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, spectrum
analysers, receivers etc.)?

 

Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke Turnbull

 

Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited 

Registered in England, No. 872948 

Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at
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URL. 

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Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  

For policy questions, send mail to:
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David Heald  

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David Heald  

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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
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David Heald: 

Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Derek Walton]

Hi all,

just a thought If you're an accredited lab you are supposed to 
evaluate your working environment: I'd include Cell phones in this.

Now, I hate banning things, so my first thought is that whoever is 
running testing should know about mobile Transmitters, from Door openers 
to cell phones. This is a topic I always discuss when Assessing.

Just because things are banned doesn't mean they will not be present.

In my lab I use the 4 module HP system, and Sucoflex cables. I do not 
see signals related to the cell phone in this system. I did when I used 
low cost cables. I am not advocating the used of a particular brand, 
just good cables.

The power to the four modules is passed through a Xantrex super 
isolation transformer also: just cos'.

Seasons greetings,

Derek Walton
L F Research

Pettit, Ghery wrote:
>
> I would. Shielding of receivers isn’t perfect. We have signs banning 
> them in our labs. Don’t know how well enforced it is. J Guess I’ll 
> have to check the next time I do a quality audit. J J
>
> Ghery Pettit
>
> 
>
> *From:* emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *Luke Turnbull
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:22 AM
> *To:* emc-p...@ieee.org
> *Subject:* Mobile Phones in EMC Labs
>
> Hi all,
>
> Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside 
> our test chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, 
> spectrum analysers, receivers etc.)?
>
> Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Luke Turnbull
>
> Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited
>
> Registered in England, No. 872948
>
> Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
> e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at 
> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
> Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to 
> that URL.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@ptcnh.net>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
> e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at 
> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
> Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to 
> that URL.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@ptcnh.net>>
> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
>

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Pettit, Ghery]

I would.  Shielding of receivers isn’t perfect.  We have signs banning them
in our labs.  Don’t know how well enforced it is.  :-)   Guess I’ll have
to check the next time I do a quality audit.  :-)  :-)

Ghery Pettit

 

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Luke Turnbull
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:22 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

 

Hi all,

 

Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside our test
chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, spectrum analysers,
receivers etc.)?

 

Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke Turnbull

 

Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited 

Registered in England, No. 872948 

Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at
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RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Kunde, Brian]

The signal appears to be getting into the Pre-Selector (rf filter
section) for if I disconnect the main input cable between the
Pre-selector and the receiver the emission goes away.  We have checked
all the interconnect cables and they seem ok. It is possible it is
getting in through the power cord.  It hasn't been a major issue for us
so we really haven't put much effort into figuring it out. There are
only two people who work in that area and they can easily recognize and
resolve the problem if seen.

Thanks for your input.


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John
Woodgate
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:01 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

In message 
<0ed66cd2c9bd0a459d54fb9119a60567d06...@mailserver.lecotc.com>, dated 
Tue, 9 Dec 2008, "Kunde, Brian"  writes:


>Our HP Receiver will pick up cell phone emissions from 50 feet away 
>even with the input cables disconnected (weird)

Maybe the filter on the mains input doesn't work at cellphone 
frequencies.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to
stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You
choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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LECO Corporation Notice:  This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error.  Thank  you.

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Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[John Woodgate]

In message 
<0ed66cd2c9bd0a459d54fb9119a60567d06...@mailserver.lecotc.com>, dated 
Tue, 9 Dec 2008, "Kunde, Brian"  writes:


>Our HP Receiver will pick up cell phone emissions from 50 feet away 
>even with the input cables disconnected (weird)

Maybe the filter on the mains input doesn't work at cellphone 
frequencies.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Bill Owsley]

We used to pick up the cell phones, but then we fixed the cables and
connectors and now no more problems.  We routinely use cell phones while
testing and they are good indication when something is broken.
CISPR16 compliant equipment is spec'd so it is immune to those problems.

- Bill
Indecision may or may not be the problem.

--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Kunde, Brian  wrote:


From: Kunde, Brian 
Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs
To: "Grace Lin" , emc-p...@ieee.org
Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:23 AM



Same here. Our HP Receiver will pick up cell phone emissions from 50 
feet
away even with the input cables disconnected (weird), so no cell phones during
Emissions testing. I do not see why it would matter for other tests.

 

The Other Brian

 




From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace 
Lin
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:08 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

 

Hi Luke,

 

My opinion is yes.  Years ago when I worked for a commercial lab using 
a R&S
receiver, the pre-scan data pick up noise from a cell phone.  The lab bans the
use of cell phones (all cell phones have to be off).

 

Regards,

Grace

 

On 12/9/08, Luke Turnbull  wrote: 

Hi all,

 

Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside 
our test
chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, spectrum analysers,
receivers etc.)?

 

Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke Turnbull

 
Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited 
Registered in England , No. 872948 
Registered Office Address: Stratford Road , Solihull B90 4AX 

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_ 

LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. -

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc
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RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Kunde, Brian]

Same here. Our HP Receiver will pick up cell phone emissions from 50 feet away
even with the input cables disconnected (weird), so no cell phones during
Emissions testing. I do not see why it would matter for other tests.

 

The Other Brian

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:08 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

 

Hi Luke,

 

My opinion is yes.  Years ago when I worked for a commercial lab using a R&S
receiver, the pre-scan data pick up noise from a cell phone.  The lab bans the
use of cell phones (all cell phones have to be off).

 

Regards,

Grace

 

On 12/9/08, Luke Turnbull  wrote: 

Hi all,

 

Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside our test
chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, spectrum analysers,
receivers etc.)?

 

Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke Turnbull

 

Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited 

Registered in England, No. 872948 

Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX 

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_ 

LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. 
-

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RE: Inn-co (was Deisel) antenna tower manufacturer website down and phone does not answer

[Honkala, Ari (Espoo)]

Thanks John,
Your googling worked out better than mine.

Ari


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John
Woodgate
Sent: 9. joulukuuta 2008 14:22
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Inn-co (was Deisel) antenna tower manufacturer website down
and phone does not answer

In message 
<817A96D4B7469540B87E61649DC2EFE47234F2@exdrnsbesgs23.EQ1SGS.local>, 
dated Tue, 9 Dec 2008, "Honkala, Ari (Espoo)"  
writes:


>Does anyone know what the situation with the company is?

Google produced:

http://www.oberpfalznetz.de/zeitung/121-128,1,0.html

Not good news.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to
stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You
choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-


Information in this email and any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed
or otherwise directed. Please note that any views or opinions presented
in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent those of the Company.
Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for
the presence of viruses. The Company accepts no liability for any damage
caused by any virus transmitted by this email.
All SGS services are rendered in accordance with the applicable SGS
conditions of service available on request and accessible at
http://www.sgs.com/terms_and_conditions.htm

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Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Grace Lin]

Hi Luke,
 
My opinion is yes.  Years ago when I worked for a commercial lab using a R&S
receiver, the pre-scan data pick up noise from a cell phone.  The lab bans the
use of cell phones (all cell phones have to be off).
 
Regards,
Grace

 
On 12/9/08, Luke Turnbull  wrote: 

Hi all,
 
Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside 
our test
chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, spectrum analysers,
receivers etc.)?
 
Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks,
 
Luke Turnbull


Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited 

Registered in England, No. 872948 

Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX 

-

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emc-pstc
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Re: Inn-co (was Deisel) antenna tower manufacturer website down and phone does not answer

[John Woodgate]

In message 
<817A96D4B7469540B87E61649DC2EFE47234F2@exdrnsbesgs23.EQ1SGS.local>, 
dated Tue, 9 Dec 2008, "Honkala, Ari (Espoo)"  
writes:


>Does anyone know what the situation with the company is?

Google produced:

http://www.oberpfalznetz.de/zeitung/121-128,1,0.html

Not good news.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Inn-co (was Deisel) antenna tower manufacturer website down and phone does not answer

[Honkala, Ari (Espoo)]

Does anyone know what the situation with the company is?

 

Regards,

Ari Honkala

SGS Fimko Ltd

-



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discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 

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Information in this email and any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed
or otherwise directed. Please note that any views or opinions presented
in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent those of the Company.
Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for
the presence of viruses. The Company accepts no liability for any damage
caused by any virus transmitted by this email.
All SGS services are rendered in accordance with the applicable SGS
conditions of service available on request and accessible at
http://www.sgs.com/terms_and_conditions.htm

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Mobile Phones in EMC Labs

[Luke Turnbull]

Hi all,
 
Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside our test
chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, spectrum analysers,
receivers etc.)?
 
Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks,
 
Luke Turnbull


Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited 

Registered in England, No. 872948 

Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX 

-

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