[PSES] IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society Workshops

[Dan Roman]

List Members,

The IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society would like to announce two upcoming 
workshops presented by the PSES.

On Friday, June 22nd in the Atlanta area:

Join your Atlanta area colleagues at Intertek's Duluth, GA lab. You'll have a 
chance to learn about LED testing and evaluation, Lithium battery safety, and 
Forensics testing, plus have a tour of Intertek's laboratories and meet with 
their testing experts.

You will also have the opportunity to help found an Atlanta Chapter of the 
Product Safety Engineering Society (PSES) with your colleagues!

To view details or download the flyer visit http://www.ieee-pses.org/.


On Friday, June 15th at Argencon 2012 Argentina:

The Product Safety Engineering Society is holding a full day Product Safety 
Workshop at 2012 Argencon.  See http://www.argencon.org.ar/ for Argencon 2012 
details or http://www.ieee-pses.org/ for the PSES Workshop flyer.

Registration for the Argencon 2012 PSES Workshop is available at 
http://www.argencon.org.ar/?q=inscripciones.

Regards,

--
Dan Roman, N.C.E.
Communications Vice President
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
*mailto:dan.ro...@ieee.org
*Voice: 973-967-6485  Fax: 973-967-6262
http://www.ieee-pses.org

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Re: [PSES] SMART GRID INTEROPERABILITY PANEL

[Brian Oconnell]

Thanks for the link - most interesting. These people have been very busy.

When I see wheel reinvention, I suspect power and money games; with a
resultant loss of benefit to consumer and engineering community. A circus is
not the best platform for implementation of important standards.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of John
Woodgate
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 12:42 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: SMART GRID INTEROPERABILITY PANEL

In message <8fc746437b5f45a8a65624de93626...@tamuracorp.com>, dated Tue,
5 Jun 2012, Brian Oconnell  writes:

>Was looking at some publications by the 'Smart Grid Testing &
>Certification Committee'. Any comments on why the NIST seems to be
>driving this and not an IEC WG?

It's a BIG bandwagon, and everyone is trying to get on it. IEC IS
working on it. http://www.iec.ch/smartgrid/
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Instead of saying that the government is doing too little, too late or too
much, too early, say they've got is exactly right, thus throwing them into
total confusion.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

[Crane, Lauren]

It might be worth recalling at this time there are two major TUV’s in the 
assessment game; TUV SUD (aka TUV America, aka TUV Product Service) and TUV 
Rheinland. Though personnel often hop back and forth between the two, they are 
separate, competing enterprises, possibly with different interpretation 
policies at the corporate level and in field offices. 

(umlauts omitted) 

 

Regards,

Lauren Crane

KLA-Tencor

 

From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 10:31 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

 

I looked up TUEV's Korean Web site (in English) at 
http://www.tuv.or.kr/Data/BM54/Technical%20Bulletin-1Q2010%280%29.pdf

It says in part (excerpt):

New publication of Harmonized Standards in
the Official Journal of the EU under new 
Machinery Directive 2006-42-EC 
 
새로운 기계류 지침 2006-42-EC에 따른 적용 규격
(Harmonized Standards)이 EU의 Official Journal에 공표.  

Relevant for: Machinery, Household equipment, Tools, Cleaning 
equipment, Laboratory equipment 

Shortly before introduction of the new machinery directive in
2006/42/EC on the 29.12.2009, the European Commission
published the list of the Harmonized Standards of the new directive
in the Official Journal of European Union on 18.12.2009 (See
arrangement, the CENELEC part begins on the page 35). 

That may let you find (I don't have access to the standards) what they are 
(probably) misunderstanding.

Good luck!

Cortland Richmond






On 6/1/2012 1627, Kunde, Brian wrote: 

More trouble in the world of Laboratory Equipment (red headed step child) and 
the Machinery Directive. 

 

I’ve had TUV offices in 3 Asian countries and a customer in Australia tell us 
our products (Laboratory Equipment) must have an AC Lock Out Device, an 
Emergency Stop Switch, and a Light Tower because “Laboratory Equipment now 
falls under the Machinery Directive”. 

 

They are telling us that any AC product requires a lock out device. What?

 

On one instrument we make, the only moving part is a small dc motor with a wire 
brush similar to an electric tooth brush that cleans an electrical contact 
between ..

 

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Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

[Cortland Richmond]

I looked up TUEV's Korean Web site (in English) at
http://www.tuv.or.kr/Data/BM54/Technical%20Bulletin-1Q2010%280%29.pdf

It says in part (excerpt):

New publication of Harmonized Standards in
the Official Journal of the EU under new
Machinery Directive 2006-42-EC

??? ??? ?? 2006-42-EC? ?? ?? ??
(Harmonized Standards)? EU? Official Journal? ??.

Relevant for: Machinery, Household equipment, Tools, Cleaning
equipment, Laboratory equipment

Shortly before introduction of the new machinery directive in
2006/42/EC on the 29.12.2009, the European Commission
published the list of the Harmonized Standards of the new directive
in the Official Journal of European Union on 18.12.2009 (See
arrangement, the CENELEC part begins on the page 35).

That may let you find (I don't have access to the standards) what they 
are (probably) misunderstanding.


Good luck!

Cortland Richmond






On 6/1/2012 1627, Kunde, Brian wrote:


More trouble in the world of Laboratory Equipment (red headed step 
child) and the Machinery Directive.


I've had TUV offices in 3 Asian countries and a customer in Australia 
tell us our products (Laboratory Equipment) must have an AC Lock Out 
Device, an Emergency Stop Switch, and a Light Tower because 
"Laboratory Equipment now falls under the Machinery Directive".


They are telling us that any AC product requires a lock out device. What?

On one instrument we make, the only moving part is a small dc motor 
with a wire brush similar to an electric tooth brush that cleans an 
electrical contact between ..





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formats), large files, etc.

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Scott Douglas 
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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

[Crane, Lauren]

Brian, 

 

My opinion is that the Machinery Directive does not strictly require "an
AC Lock Out Device, an Emergency Stop Switch, and a Light Tower" per se.
Have you read the directive and guidance on these points and believe
that it does?

Just because 61010-1 is not harmonized to the MD does not preclude the
possibility that it addresses all relevant MD essential requirements for
your product. 

 

Regards,

Lauren Crane

KLA-Tencor

 

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 3:28 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

 

More trouble in the world of Laboratory Equipment (red headed step
child) and the Machinery Directive. 

 

I've had TUV offices in 3 Asian countries and a customer in Australia
tell us our products (Laboratory Equipment) must have an AC Lock Out
Device, an Emergency Stop Switch, and a Light Tower because "Laboratory
Equipment now falls under the Machinery Directive". 

 

They are telling us that any AC product requires a lock out device.
What?

 

On one instrument we make, the only moving part is a small dc motor with
a wire brush similar to an electric tooth brush that cleans an
electrical contact between analysis. You can stop this motor by hand
without injury. This motor is also behind a double interlock door (due
to an electrical hazard), but yet they say we must have an E-Stop switch
and Light Tower. 

 

I'm not familiar with the Light Towers. I've seen them on Large
Production Machines but what purpose do they serve on laboratory
equipment no larger that an upright piano? I understood they are only
required to show the operational status of a machine if not knowing the
status could cause a hazard or injury. Is there more to it? I don't see
why it would be needed if there are no accessible hazards. 

 

I'm getting the feeling that some believe these things are required just
because laboratory falls under the machinery directive and not for any
other reason, which seems silly to me. In the past, the machinery
directive mainly covered the safety of Production Machines which
generally require these safety components. 

 

Can you imagine your next spectrum analyzer having an E-Stop switch
because of the cooling fan or the motorized CD drive door? Is this what
it is coming to?

 

Why or why don't you large powerful laboratory equipment manufacturers
fight for the official recognition of "Laboratory Equipment" and have
our own Directives, Standards, and requirements and not have to wade
through all the machinery Directive nonsense?  What sense is the IEC/EN
61010-1 standard if they are not harmonized to the MD? Why are we being
forced to apply the IEC/EN 60204-1 to Laboratory Equipment where 90% of
the requirements don't or shouldn't apply? 

 

Sorry for my rant. It's been a long week. I'm just a small powerless
voice trying to sell safe products to a crazy crazy world..

 

The Other Brian

 




LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received
this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank
you. 


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formats), large files, etc.

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Re: [PSES] Follow on to EN 61000-4-5 Surge Question, How is Voltage configur ed?

[Kunde, Brian]

All good names. I don't know officially what the power companies call it or the 
NEC but I like to call it "Split Phase". It rolls off the tongue nicely. I've 
been told this term is incorrect but I have been trying to get others to use it.

Wikipedia must agree because there are several references to "Split Phase" in 
reference to this type of North America power system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power

On another wiki page for "Single Phase Electric Power" it states, "In some 
countries such as the United States, single phase is commonly divided in half 
to create split-phase electric power for household appliances and lighting."

Another common reference on wiki is "three-wire single-phase", but when you 
click on it it will take you to the Split-Phase page listed above.

The Other Brian

From: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com 
[mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 7:31 PM
To: Kunde, Brian
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Follow on to EN 61000-4-5 Surge Question, How is Voltage 
configur ed?


A "single-phase, split-voltage" or "single-phase, 3-wire service "  are likely 
better names for our peculiar 120/240V a.c. system here.
___

Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  |   
Regulatory Compliance Engineering


From:

"Kunde, Brian" mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com>>

To:

EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Date:

06/05/2012 01:39 PM

Subject:

Re: [PSES] Follow on to EN 61000-4-5 Surge Question, How is Voltage configur ed?






Since this is mainly for Europe, we perform the test at 230VAC 50hz with a 
grounded neutral which I believe is the most common power system in most areas, 
but not all.

I believe you are correct; AC power in Europe is generally derived from 3-phase 
where 230VAC is the voltage from Line to Neutral. In most locations the neutral 
is at earth ground potential but not everywhere. In some areas the neutral is 
floating (so I have been told).

In North America, 220VAC single phase center tap systems (sometimes incorrectly 
called two phase or split phase) is most common in residential and commercial 
locations, but not commonly found in industrial locations. For instance, our 
EMC lab is in an industrial area and we do not have split phase. Our 115VAC is 
derived from 208 with a grounded neutral. So when we test residential 220V 
appliances we have to use 208 which is technically not correct, but as close as 
we can get. Our 208 runs a bit high and runs around 215V.

Hope this was helpful.

The Other Brian


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On 
Behalf Of Larry Stillings
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:43 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Follow on to EN 61000-4-5 Surge Question, How is Voltage configur ed?


Firstly, thank you for those whom responded to my EN 61000-4-5 lightning surge 
question last week

My follow on question, is how should the 230 VAC, 50 Hz Source be configured 
for mains power.

Is using 230 VAC consisting of 115 volts from Line to ground, and 115 volts 
from neutral (l2) to ground acceptable, or should the AC source be configured 
to apply 230 VAC on Line to Ground, and Neutral or L2 configured to be around 0 
volts.

Here in the USA we have two phases, although we call it single phase which 
brings in 120 VAC on Line 1 and 120 VAC on Line 2 to provide 240 VAC, 60 Hz, 
unless of course you have a building where one of the three phases is tapped, 
but then my understanding is that is what is called 208 VAC, 60 Hz.

However, I mainly interested in how power is configured in Europe. From what I 
read it is derived from either 415 3-Phase which gives 240 Volts on line, or 
380 3-Phase which gives 220 Volts on line, and 230 Volts on line was a 
compromise between the two ?

Larry K. Stillings
Compliance Worldwide, Inc.
Test Locally, Sell Globally!
FCC - Wireless - Telecom - CE Marking
357 Main Street
Sandown, NH 03873
(603) 887 3903 Fax 887-6445
www.complianceworldwide.com

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discus

Re: [PSES] SV: Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

[John Woodgate]

In message <0f4201cd43ad$b6d92620$248b7260$@dk>, dated Wed, 6 Jun 2012, 
Kim Boll Jensen  writes:



You can?t get a CB certificate for EN/IEC 60204.



I don't see why you can't get one for IEC 60204. I don't think you can 
get one for any EN: CB is about IEC standards.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Instead of saying that the government is doing too little, too late or too
much, too early, say they've got is exactly right, thus throwing them into
total confusion.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] Two Notified Body numbers on a product

[Michael Derby]

Notice that although the R&TTE Directive does not mention NB number height
directly... the Commission's R&TTE Guidance document states (advises?) that
the NB number should be the same height as the CE Mark.

 

I think Charlie's suggestion makes good sense but be warned that an
enthusiastic surveillance authority could ask questions.

 

Michael.

 

 

Michael Derby

Regulatory Engineer

ACB Europe

 

From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] 
Sent: 06 June 2012 09:19
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Two Notified Body numbers on a product

 

Amund

 

Yes - put two NB numbers next to the CE mark - this can be done by placing
the two number on top of each other next to the CE mark such that their
total height is same as that of CE mark

 

Regards

Charlie

 

From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] 
Sent: 06 June 2012 04:46
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Two Notified Body numbers on a product

 

A product has to fulfill the EU directives RTTE and CPR. Two different
Notified Bodies are involved for the directives.

Are we talking about double NB numbering on the CE label?

 

So far, I have not seen any product with two NB identification numbers ...

 

#Amund

 

 

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Re: [PSES] Two Notified Body numbers on a product

[Charlie Blackham]

Amund

Yes - put two NB numbers next to the CE mark - this can be done by placing the 
two number on top of each other next to the CE mark such that their total 
height is same as that of CE mark

Regards
Charlie

From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
Sent: 06 June 2012 04:46
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Two Notified Body numbers on a product

A product has to fulfill the EU directives RTTE and CPR. Two different Notified 
Bodies are involved for the directives.
Are we talking about double NB numbering on the CE label?

So far, I have not seen any product with two NB identification numbers .

#Amund


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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: