Re: [PSES] Control over handheld radio and similar low-power transmitter harmonic and spurious power output, USA
Ken Don't look at 15.109 at all for intentional transmitters UHF/VHF radios are typically part 90, so nothing to do with any section of part 15, unless you are mains powered, when you need to do 15.207. 15.209 limits for devices covered by other parts of 15, such as 902-928 MHz devices covered under 15.245, 15.247 or 15.249, are only applied as specified in that part. And the requirement will vary depending on type of device and tx power and bandwidth. · 15.245 and 15.249 require ...Emissions radiated outside of the specified frequency bands, except for harmonics, shall be attenuated by at least 50 dB below the level of the fundamental or to the general radiated emission limits in § 15.209, whichever is the lesser attenuation. · 15.247 is for higher power, wideband devices, and only required 15.209 in restricted bands as defined in 15.205, not across the band: o Attenuation below the general limits specified in § 15.209(a) is not required. In addition, radiated emissions which fall in the restricted bands, as defined in § 15.205(a), must also comply with the radiated emission limits specified in § 15.209(a) (see § 15.205(c)). Regards Charlie -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: 02 April 2013 03:43 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Control over handheld radio and similar low-power transmitter harmonic and spurious power output, USA All, Several people provided helpful pointers to various sections of the CFR with regards to the subject, but I am confused reading sections 47 CFR Parts 15.109 and 15.209. What I am looking for is a control on harmonics and spurious emissions from handheld transmitting devices, which can include RFID, and transmitters in the unlicensed 900 MHz range, and Wi-Fi, but also handheld radios operating at vhf and uhf, such as around 150 MHz and 400 MHz. What I am seeing in the above named sections are what appear to be limits on field intensity in the uV/m to mV/m range with no differentiation between fundamental and harmonics and spurs, and while these might make sense for unlicensed bands, it doesn't make sense (to me at least) for a handheld radio that can transmit up to 5 Watts. Can someone please clue me in? Thank you, Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Control over handheld radio and similar low-power transmitter harmonic and spurious power output, USA
Thanks to all who replied you have been a great help! Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CONTAMINATION CLASS
In message 3d061464a0c0bb438a8712afce9013831da7f...@tor1exc01.americas.tsp.ad, dated Tue, 2 Apr 2013, Bolintineanu, Constantin cbolintine...@tycoint.com writes: Could you please be so kind and let me know which document provides the DEFINITION of the term: CONTAMINATION CLASS. It is not in either Electropedia or the IEC Glossary, both of which are in the public area of the (new) IEC web site. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Swine wave - a waveform whose spectrum is exceptionally difficult to calculate. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] India BIS/DEITY mandatory registration scheme for ITE/AV products
Hi Guys, By this time you may be well aware of DEITY/BIS mandatory registration scheme has been extended till July 3, 2013 and till Oct 3, with certain conditions. This extended period should help manufacturer to better organize and plan for certification /registration. During this time BIS is planning to discuss the report variations issues with the approved labs and try to close the all variability. This is also good time to revisit the fundamental definitions like series classification which has a direct bearing on the # of samples to be tested and certfied. There are also some critical aspects in registration application like factory layout , applicant , contact info etc. which will require due attention, So that BIS does not reject it and cause delay in accepting the application As I mentioned previously in this e-mail , I am expert in all aspects of the scheme and have first hand knowledge and contact with DEITY/BIS Please feel free to contact me offline. Thank you , Sudhakar Wasnik, MS EE, IES Tel. 925-734-6708. From: sudhakar wasnik saloni95...@yahoo.com To: EMC-PSTC Listserver emc-pstc@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 4:54 AM Subject: India BIS/DEITY mandatory registration scheme for ITE/AV products Hello Members, Indian has launched mandatory in country testing @ BIS approved laboratories and registration scheme for ITE and AV products ( Scope is limited to certain products) w.e.f April 3, 2013. I am expert in this scheme and if any body needs any kind of assistance in this scheme, Please contact me offline. Regards, Sudhakar Wasnik MS EE, IES - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own?
Does one just state there are no requirements at this level on the DoC, do they reference the appropriate directives for safety and EMC for the final product. We custom design bits and pieces for end customers in EU, and we keep dancing around this issue both for ITE and medical devices. It might have a digital clock but no way to measure emissions until it's in the final enclosure. The end user would then do some final declarations and issue DoC's. We make RoHS and WEEE statements but those are not currently part of our DoC for EU Just what does a DoC for a rock look like if I wanted to ship it? Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer Esterline Interface Technologies Featuring ADVANCED INPUT, GAMESMAN, LRE MEDICAL, and MEMTRON products 600 W. Wilbur Avenue Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815-9496 Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X1XXX Tel: (208) 635-8 Fax: (208) 635-8 www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologieshttp://www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologies Technology, Innovation, Performance... Click herehttp://www.esterline.com/governance/email_disclaimer/tabid/1532/Default.aspx to read disclaimer - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own?
Not much different than for end-use equipment. For my component power supplies - simple tabulation of directives and respective standards that were used as basis for presumption of conformity to whatever directives. Then add paragraph for Conditions of Acceptability and intended end-use. For last several units (more important for my stuff that is intended for PV market), added second page for stuff that would be in addition to what is being required by EU; for example, electric building code applicability and environmental definitions. Does the document perfectly reflect only the scope per ISO17050 or any particular directive? Probably not, as the importance is to use the DoC as another opportunity for another vehicle to reinforce certain expectations (that would typically only be found in install instructions or spec) for a component. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of McInturff, Gary Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 1:18 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own? Does one just state there are no requirements at this level on the DoC, do they reference the appropriate directives for safety and EMC for the final product. We custom design bits and pieces for end customers in EU, and we keep dancing around this issue both for ITE and medical devices. It might have a digital clock but no way to measure emissions until it's in the final enclosure. The end user would then do some final declarations and issue DoC's. We make RoHS and WEEE statements but those are not currently part of our DoC for EU Just what does a DoC for a rock look like if I wanted to ship it? Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer Esterline Interface TechnologiesFeaturing ADVANCED INPUT, GAMESMAN, LRE MEDICAL, and MEMTRON products 600 W. Wilbur Avenue Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815-9496 Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X1XXX Tel: (208) 635-8 Fax: (208) 635-8 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own?
In message d250d01e39356a4e9cc3b4b459d6655094dc1...@ms-cda-01.advanced-input.com, dated Tue, 2 Apr 2013, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com writes: Does one just state there are no requirements at this level on the DoC, do they reference the appropriate directives for safety and EMC for the final product. If it's not usable on its own, it may well be something that should not have a CE mark and a DoC. From 1.2 of the 'EMC Guide' 2010: 1.2 Defining the scope of apparatus The EMC Directive defines apparatus as any finished appliance, or combination thereof made commercially available (i.e. placed on the market) as a single functional unit, intended for the end-user, and liable to generate electromagnetic disturbance, or the performance of which is liable to be affected by such a disturbance. 1.2.1 Finished appliances A finished appliance is any device or unit that delivers a function and has its own enclosure. A finished appliance is considered as apparatus in the sense of the EMC Directive, if it is intended for the end-user and thus has to fulfil all the applicable provisions of the Directive. When the finished appliance is intended exclusively for an industrial assembly operation for incorporation into other apparatus, it is not apparatus in the sense of the EMC Directive and consequently the EMC Directive does not apply. We custom design bits and pieces for end customers in EU, and we keep dancing around this issue both for ITE and medical devices. End customers are presumably manufacturers, not 'end-users' as defined in the Directive? If not, 1.2.3 of the Guide is applicable: 1.2.3 Components/Sub-assemblies In contrast to finished appliances, components /sub-assemblies do not, in general, have a proper enclosure intended for their final use. Components/sub-assemblies are often intended to be fitted into or added to an apparatus in order to add an additional function. 1.2.3.1 Components/sub-assemblies within scope Components or sub-assemblies on the market which are: - for incorporation into an apparatus by the end-user; - available to end-users; are to be considered as apparatus with regard to the application of the EMC Directive. The instructions for use accompanying the component or sub-assembly should include all relevant information, and should assume that adjustments or connections can be performed by an end-user not aware of the EMC implications. Illustrative examples: Plug-in cards for computers; Programmable logic controllers; Electric motors (except for induction motors, see section 1.1.4); Computer disk drives; It might have a digital clock but no way to measure emissions until it's in the final enclosure. The end user would then do some final declarations and issue DoC's. So the 'end-user' in your terminology IS a manufacturer and NOT an end-user in the meaning given in the Directive. We make RoHS and WEEE statements but those are not currently part of our DoC for EU Just what does a DoC for a rock look like if I wanted to ship it? If it's not suitable for throwing, it is benign and thus exempt. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk They took me to a specialist burns unit - and made me learn 'To a haggis'. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own?
Yes end user was a very poor choice of words, but manufacturer gets muddy as well. The manufacture according to the guide for Guide to the implementation of directives based on the New Approach and the Global Approach (The blue book) but having said that I should have used that term rather than end user. But I still don't see how the exempt status is indicated - by no accompanying DoC or by a note in the DoC that covers the applicable directives for the final product but with a note that says the subassembly is exempt from those standards. It's a bit like proving - or stating at least - a negative. 3.1.1. New Approach directives A manufacturer, in the meaning of New Approach, is the person who is responsible for designing and manufacturing a product with a view to placing it on the Community market on his own behalf. The manufacturer has an obligation to ensure that a product intended to be placed on the Community market is designed and manufactured, and its conformity assessed, to the essential requirements in accordance with the provisions of the applicable New Approach directives. The manufacturer may use finished products, ready-made parts or components, or may subcontract these tasks. However, he must always retain the overall control and have the necessary competence to take the responsibility for the product (47). Gary -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 2:11 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own? In message d250d01e39356a4e9cc3b4b459d6655094dc1...@ms-cda-01.advanced-input.com, dated Tue, 2 Apr 2013, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com writes: Does one just state there are no requirements at this level on the DoC, do they reference the appropriate directives for safety and EMC for the final product. If it's not usable on its own, it may well be something that should not have a CE mark and a DoC. From 1.2 of the 'EMC Guide' 2010: 1.2 Defining the scope of apparatus The EMC Directive defines apparatus as any finished appliance, or combination thereof made commercially available (i.e. placed on the market) as a single functional unit, intended for the end-user, and liable to generate electromagnetic disturbance, or the performance of which is liable to be affected by such a disturbance. 1.2.1 Finished appliances A finished appliance is any device or unit that delivers a function and has its own enclosure. A finished appliance is considered as apparatus in the sense of the EMC Directive, if it is intended for the end-user and thus has to fulfil all the applicable provisions of the Directive. When the finished appliance is intended exclusively for an industrial assembly operation for incorporation into other apparatus, it is not apparatus in the sense of the EMC Directive and consequently the EMC Directive does not apply. We custom design bits and pieces for end customers in EU, and we keep dancing around this issue both for ITE and medical devices. End customers are presumably manufacturers, not 'end-users' as defined in the Directive? If not, 1.2.3 of the Guide is applicable: 1.2.3 Components/Sub-assemblies In contrast to finished appliances, components /sub-assemblies do not, in general, have a proper enclosure intended for their final use. Components/sub-assemblies are often intended to be fitted into or added to an apparatus in order to add an additional function. 1.2.3.1 Components/sub-assemblies within scope Components or sub-assemblies on the market which are: - for incorporation into an apparatus by the end-user; - available to end-users; are to be considered as apparatus with regard to the application of the EMC Directive. The instructions for use accompanying the component or sub-assembly should include all relevant information, and should assume that adjustments or connections can be performed by an end-user not aware of the EMC implications. Illustrative examples: Plug-in cards for computers; Programmable logic controllers; Electric motors (except for induction motors, see section 1.1.4); Computer disk drives; It might have a digital clock but no way to measure emissions until it's in the final enclosure. The end user would then do some final declarations and issue DoC's. So the 'end-user' in your terminology IS a manufacturer and NOT an end-user in the meaning given in the Directive. We make RoHS and WEEE statements but those are not currently part of our DoC for EU Just what does a DoC for a rock look like if I wanted to ship it? If it's not suitable for throwing, it is benign and thus exempt. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk They took me to a specialist burns unit - and made me learn 'To a haggis'. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK -
Re: [PSES] so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own?
For EMC, Mr. Woodgate's reply is relevant, but us component mfrs will find this guidance difficult to use. But back to the original question of a 'generic' requirement for D of C. Since RoHS is now a marking directive, your widget no longer has a basis for bearing the CE mark. Also note that RoHS now has a harmonized standard for all to adore, whereas REACH is not yet a marking directive and has no harmonized standard to use as basis for presumption of conformity. So my answer is a non-answer. An importer of components for professional installation cannot know what type of import enforcement would be applied by any particular EFT state, or how any particular official would interpret the scope of any directive. From this side of the pond and from my experience, components for use by other mfrs in med and ITE have two principle requirements that would be looked at by the governmental people - the CE mark on the component and the declaration. If the governmental person goes further, the next document requirement would the Technical File. In fact, just recently shipped a TF on a DVD to a wonderful governmental organization in the EFT. So you really need to be ready with all of the new and wonderful document requirements in accordance with the NLF stuff. Brian -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 2:05 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: RE: so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own? Not much different than for end-use equipment. For my component power supplies - simple tabulation of directives and respective standards that were used as basis for presumption of conformity to whatever directives. Then add paragraph for Conditions of Acceptability and intended end-use. For last several units (more important for my stuff that is intended for PV market), added second page for stuff that would be in addition to what is being required by EU; for example, electric building code applicability and environmental definitions. Does the document perfectly reflect only the scope per ISO17050 or any particular directive? Probably not, as the importance is to use the DoC as another opportunity for another vehicle to reinforce certain expectations (that would typically only be found in install instructions or spec) for a component. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of McInturff, Gary Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 1:18 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own? Does one just state there are no requirements at this level on the DoC, do they reference the appropriate directives for safety and EMC for the final product. We custom design bits and pieces for end customers in EU, and we keep dancing around this issue both for ITE and medical devices. It might have a digital clock but no way to measure emissions until it's in the final enclosure. The end user would then do some final declarations and issue DoC's. We make RoHS and WEEE statements but those are not currently part of our DoC for EU Just what does a DoC for a rock look like if I wanted to ship it? Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer Esterline Interface TechnologiesFeaturing ADVANCED INPUT, GAMESMAN, LRE MEDICAL, and MEMTRON products 600 W. Wilbur Avenue Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815-9496 Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X1XXX Tel: (208) 635-8 Fax: (208) 635-8 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Control over handheld radio and similar low-power transmitter harmonic and spurious power output, USA
5 watts is licensed. 1 watt and less is unlicensed - maybe. handheld voice communication is limited, a lot, In general, spurious cannot be any higher than intentional. As long as both are below 15.209. Note peak limits too! and the restrictied bands of 15.205? which incudes harmonics - in my view! For example, if my harmonics look like my fundamental but they are in the restricted bands then they have to get fixed! Dang... forgot to hit send last night! From: Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 10:43 PM Subject: Control over handheld radio and similar low-power transmitter harmonic and spurious power output, USA All, Several people provided helpful pointers to various sections of the CFR with regards to the subject, but I am confused reading sections 47 CFR Parts 15.109 and 15.209. What I am looking for is a control on harmonics and spurious emissions from handheld transmitting devices, which can include RFID, and transmitters in the unlicensed 900 MHz range, and Wi-Fi, but also handheld radios operating at vhf and uhf, such as around 150 MHz and 400 MHz. What I am seeing in the above named sections are what appear to be limits on field intensity in the uV/m to mV/m range with no differentiation between fundamental and harmonics and spurs, and while these might make sense for unlicensed bands, it doesn't make sense (to me at least) for a handheld radio that can transmit up to 5 Watts. Can someone please clue me in? Thank you, Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own?
For low voltage many components also need ce marking to the LVD. Regardless their applicaton or target buyers. Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen, BSc g.grem...@cetest.nl www.cetest.nl Kiotoweg 363 3047 BG Rotterdam T 31(0)104152426 F 31(0)104154953 Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Brian Oconnell Verzonden: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:49 AM Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: RE: so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own? For EMC, Mr. Woodgate's reply is relevant, but us component mfrs will find this guidance difficult to use. But back to the original question of a 'generic' requirement for D of C. Since RoHS is now a marking directive, your widget no longer has a basis for bearing the CE mark. Also note that RoHS now has a harmonized standard for all to adore, whereas REACH is not yet a marking directive and has no harmonized standard to use as basis for presumption of conformity. So my answer is a non-answer. An importer of components for professional installation cannot know what type of import enforcement would be applied by any particular EFT state, or how any particular official would interpret the scope of any directive. From this side of the pond and from my experience, components for use by other mfrs in med and ITE have two principle requirements that would be looked at by the governmental people - the CE mark on the component and the declaration. If the governmental person goes further, the next document requirement would the Technical File. In fact, just recently shipped a TF on a DVD to a wonderful governmental organization in the EFT. So you really need to be ready with all of the new and wonderful document requirements in accordance with the NLF stuff. Brian -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 2:05 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: RE: so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own? Not much different than for end-use equipment. For my component power supplies - simple tabulation of directives and respective standards that were used as basis for presumption of conformity to whatever directives. Then add paragraph for Conditions of Acceptability and intended end-use. For last several units (more important for my stuff that is intended for PV market), added second page for stuff that would be in addition to what is being required by EU; for example, electric building code applicability and environmental definitions. Does the document perfectly reflect only the scope per ISO17050 or any particular directive? Probably not, as the importance is to use the DoC as another opportunity for another vehicle to reinforce certain expectations (that would typically only be found in install instructions or spec) for a component. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of McInturff, Gary Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 1:18 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: so what does a DoC look like for a subassembly that isn't usable on its own? Does one just state there are no requirements at this level on the DoC, do they reference the appropriate directives for safety and EMC for the final product. We custom design bits and pieces for end customers in EU, and we keep dancing around this issue both for ITE and medical devices. It might have a digital clock but no way to measure emissions until it's in the final enclosure. The end user would then do some final declarations and issue DoC's. We make RoHS and WEEE statements but those are not currently part of our DoC for EU Just what does a DoC for a rock look like if I wanted to ship it? Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer Esterline Interface TechnologiesFeaturing ADVANCED INPUT, GAMESMAN, LRE MEDICAL, and MEMTRON products 600 W. Wilbur Avenue Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815-9496 Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X1XXX Tel: (208) 635-8 Fax: (208) 635-8 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
