[PSES] Thanks to all that replied to my latest posts

[Grasso, Charles]

Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications
(w) 303-706-5467
(c) 303-204-2974
(t) 3032042...@vtext.com
(e) charles.gra...@echostar.com
(e2) chasgra...@gmail.com


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Re: [PSES] USA Level VI energy efficiency regulations

[Rodney Davis]

Note the DOE  issued draft guidance stating that all EPS that is  capable of 
operating a consumer product would be considered in scope even if the EPS was 
not sold for the purpose of operating a consumer product.  It also goes on to 
suggest that if the EPS has an  identifiable design characteristics that would 
make them incapable of operating a consumer product then it may be considered 
exempt under DOE regulations.

Here is the link for the Guidance document.

, 
https://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/appliance_standards/pdfs/eps_faq_2014-11-14.pdf;


Also the various definition can be found in these sections - easily googleable 
(if that's a word)  10 C.F.R. § 430.2; 42 U.S.C. § 6291(1), 6291(2), 6291(36)



Here is a FAQ  
https://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/appliance_standards/pdfs/cce_faq.pdf.


In summary  whether a device is capable of operating a consumer product is 
clearly the main consideration. Clearly to answer the specific question " 
intended for professional use only". the answer is NO



Rodney Davis


From: McBurney, Ian 
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 5:20 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] USA Level VI energy efficiency regulations


Dear colleagues;



I understand that this question is slightly off topic but someone might know 
the answer.

For USA level VI energy efficiency regulations, are power supplies intended for 
professional use only included within the regulations or can they be exempted?



Many thanks in advance.



Ian McBurney

Design & Compliance Engineer.



Allen & Heath Ltd.

Kernick Industrial Estate,

Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK

T: 01326 372070

E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com





Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company. -


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Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

[Doug Powell]

Peter,

The idea of a 208 V split phase is unusual and probably not the case here.
The number 208 is obviously derived from a three phase system.

I believe the system you are talking about is a red-leg or high-leg three
phase system.  Wikipedia does have a good review in this case (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-leg_delta;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power).  In the figure
on Wikipedia this is a 240 VAC delta with the neutral applied between L1 &
L2, creating 120 V split-phases in 180 degree opposition.  The 208 is the
high leg, L3 in the figure.  You can verify the voltages using the bit of
trig further down the page. This voltage system is used in many parts of
the world but is no longer very common in the USA.

The alternative system this could be is a 416 V three phase, delta
configured with split phase secondaries at 208 V.  I have worked with this
configuration in the past.

All the best, Doug



doug...@gmail.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01


‎

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Peter Tarver  wrote:

> Good morning.
>
> There are oftensmall, legacy grids that you come across or hear
> about.
>
> I was recently told that some areas of the Northeast US have a 208
> V, split-phase power system to some residences and small businesses.
> Still 180° phase-to-phase and presumably 104 V phase-to-Neutral.  A
> specific area cited was "around Boston."
>
> Has anyone heard of or directly experienced this voltage system?
>   Is it split-phase or was I misinformed and it's from a WYE
> connected transformer?
>
> Peter Tarver
> ptar...@ieee.org
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
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>
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> Mike Cantwell 
>
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> Jim Bacher:  
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>



-- 

Douglas E Powell

doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01

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[PSES] 208 split-phase?

[Peter Tarver]

Good morning.

There are oftensmall, legacy grids that you come across or hear 
about.

I was recently told that some areas of the Northeast US have a 208 
V, split-phase power system to some residences and small businesses.  
Still 180° phase-to-phase and presumably 104 V phase-to-Neutral.  A 
specific area cited was "around Boston."

Has anyone heard of or directly experienced this voltage system?
  Is it split-phase or was I misinformed and it's from a WYE 
connected transformer?

Peter Tarver
ptar...@ieee.org

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Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

[Ted Eckert]

Although I agree with Doug in general, I will note that Massachusetts has 40 
independent municipally owned electrical utilities. I have no evidence of 104 
VAC supply, but it is possible that one of the 40 utilities supports an unusual 
legacy system.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/225880245/Electric-Utility-Map-of-Massachusetts#scribd

Ted Eckert
Compliance Engineer
Microsoft Corporation
ted.eck...@microsoft.com

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer.

From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 9:01 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

Peter,

The idea of a 208 V split phase is unusual and probably not the case here. The 
number 208 is obviously derived from a three phase system.
I believe the system you are talking about is a red-leg or high-leg three phase 
system.  Wikipedia does have a good review in this case 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-leg_delta;
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power).
  In the figure on Wikipedia this is a 240 VAC delta with the neutral applied 
between L1 & L2, creating 120 V split-phases in 180 degree opposition.  The 208 
is the high leg, L3 in the figure.  You can verify the voltages using the bit 
of trig further down the page. This voltage system is used in many parts of the 
world but is no longer very common in the USA.
The alternative system this could be is a 416 V three phase, delta configured 
with split phase secondaries at 208 V.  I have worked with this configuration 
in the past.
All the best, Doug


doug...@gmail.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01

‎

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Peter Tarver 
> wrote:
Good morning.

There are oftensmall, legacy grids that you come across or hear
about.

I was recently told that some areas of the Northeast US have a 208
V, split-phase power system to some residences and small businesses.
Still 180° phase-to-phase and presumably 104 V phase-to-Neutral.  A
specific area cited was "around Boston."

Has anyone heard of or directly experienced this voltage system?
  Is it split-phase or was I misinformed and it's from a WYE
connected transformer?

Peter Tarver
ptar...@ieee.org

-

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>

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 can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

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Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

[Brian O'Connell]

Brian,

Any significant impedance differences between these two supply configurations?

Brian
Sr Burrito Quality Control Engineer

-Original Message-
From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:34 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

I've never heard of a Utility Company providing 208 "split-phase".

I have heard the term "208 split-phase" many times from our customers who claim 
to have this but in reality what they have is 208 3-phase wired into a 230V 
split-phase receptacle but only using 208 Phase to Phase with the Grounded 
Neutral.

In our EMC lab, we do not have a true 220 split-phase so we use 208 with a 
grounded neutral. It is the closest thing we have to test 220 volt household 
appliances like ranges, ovens, microwaves, and dryers.  We know it is not 
exactly the same but close.

The Other Brian


-Original Message-
From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 10:22 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

Good morning.

There are oftensmall, legacy grids that you come across or hear about.

I was recently told that some areas of the Northeast US have a 208 V, 
split-phase power system to some residences and small businesses.
Still 180° phase-to-phase and presumably 104 V phase-to-Neutral.  A specific 
area cited was "around Boston."

Has anyone heard of or directly experienced this voltage system?
  Is it split-phase or was I misinformed and it's from a WYE connected 
transformer?

Peter Tarver
ptar...@ieee.org

-

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Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

[Ed Price]

When I had that same task, I just bought a several kW Variac, connected it
across the 208 VAC phase of a 3-phase feed, and used the Variac to increase
the needed 5% or so. A big fan for the Variac can be cheaper than buying a
really big Variac.

 

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:48 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

 

Brian,

 

Any significant impedance differences between these two supply
configurations?

 

Brian

Sr Burrito Quality Control Engineer

 

-Original Message-

From: Kunde, Brian [ 
mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:34 PM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

 

I've never heard of a Utility Company providing 208 "split-phase".

 

I have heard the term "208 split-phase" many times from our customers who
claim to have this but in reality what they have is 208 3-phase wired into a
230V split-phase receptacle but only using 208 Phase to Phase with the
Grounded Neutral.

 

In our EMC lab, we do not have a true 220 split-phase so we use 208 with a
grounded neutral. It is the closest thing we have to test 220 volt household
appliances like ranges, ovens, microwaves, and dryers.  We know it is not
exactly the same but close.

 

The Other Brian

 

 

-Original Message-

From: Peter Tarver [  mailto:ptar...@ieee.org]

Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 10:22 AM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

 

Good morning.

 

There are oftensmall, legacy grids that you come across or hear about.

 

I was recently told that some areas of the Northeast US have a 208 V,
split-phase power system to some residences and small businesses.

Still 180° phase-to-phase and presumably 104 V phase-to-Neutral.  A specific
area cited was "around Boston."

 

Has anyone heard of or directly experienced this voltage system?

  Is it split-phase or was I misinformed and it's from a WYE connected
transformer?

 

Peter Tarver

  ptar...@ieee.org

 

-



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 emc-p...@ieee.org>

 

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Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

[Kunde, Brian]

I've never heard of a Utility Company providing 208 "split-phase".

I have heard the term "208 split-phase" many times from our customers who claim 
to have this but in reality what they have is 208 3-phase wired into a 230V 
split-phase receptacle but only using 208 Phase to Phase with the Grounded 
Neutral.

In our EMC lab, we do not have a true 220 split-phase so we use 208 with a 
grounded neutral. It is the closest thing we have to test 220 volt household 
appliances like ranges, ovens, microwaves, and dryers.  We know it is not 
exactly the same but close.

The Other Brian


-Original Message-
From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 10:22 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

Good morning.

There are oftensmall, legacy grids that you come across or hear about.

I was recently told that some areas of the Northeast US have a 208 V, 
split-phase power system to some residences and small businesses.
Still 180° phase-to-phase and presumably 104 V phase-to-Neutral.  A specific 
area cited was "around Boston."

Has anyone heard of or directly experienced this voltage system?
  Is it split-phase or was I misinformed and it's from a WYE connected 
transformer?

Peter Tarver
ptar...@ieee.org

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

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Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

[Peter Tarver]

Doug –



I’m not certain what I’m referring to. Hence the question.  Since typical
120/240 V split-phase distribution in the US is from a center grounded
delta, my inclination is to believe this follows that same method.  Or the
original proposition I received is incorrect and a three-phase WYE is used
on the load side of the distribution transformer.



I think I prefer “bastard leg.”





Peter T



*From:* Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2015 09:01
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?



Peter,

The idea of a 208 V split phase is unusual and probably not the case here.
The number 208 is obviously derived from a three phase system.

I believe the system you are talking about is a red-leg or high-leg three
phase system.  Wikipedia does have a good review in this case (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-leg_delta;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power).  In the figure
on Wikipedia this is a 240 VAC delta with the neutral applied between L1 &
L2, creating 120 V split-phases in 180 degree opposition.  The 208 is the
high leg, L3 in the figure.  You can verify the voltages using the bit of
trig further down the page. This voltage system is used in many parts of
the world but is no longer very common in the USA.

The alternative system this could be is a 416 V three phase, delta
configured with split phase secondaries at 208 V.  I have worked with this
configuration in the past.

All the best, Doug




doug...@gmail.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01



‎



On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Peter Tarver  wrote:

Good morning.

There are oftensmall, legacy grids that you come across or hear
about.

I was recently told that some areas of the Northeast US have a 208
V, split-phase power system to some residences and small businesses.
Still 180° phase-to-phase and presumably 104 V phase-to-Neutral.  A
specific area cited was "around Boston."

Has anyone heard of or directly experienced this voltage system?
  Is it split-phase or was I misinformed and it's from a WYE
connected transformer?

Peter Tarver
ptar...@ieee.org

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
emc-p...@ieee.org>

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
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-- 



Douglas E Powell

doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01

-


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Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

[Peter Tarver]

Brian of the nonburrito ilk -

This is usually called 208 V single-phase.

I'm still trying to clarify the specifics of the request.

Peter Tarver

> -Original Message-
> From: Kunde, Brian
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:34
>
> snip <
>
> I have heard the term "208 split-phase" many times from our
> customers who claim to have this but in reality what they have
> is 208 3-phase wired into a 230V split-phase receptacle but
> only using 208 Phase to Phase with the Grounded Neutral.
>
> snip <

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Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

[Kunde, Brian]

Peter,

"208 V single-phase" is the correct term but when people uses the grounded 
neutral to drive 120V circuits then they often refer to it as "208 
Split-Phase". It really isn't "split-phase" unless it is derived by a center 
tapped transformer secondary. But in most cases it works, so why not call it 
that?

Non-Burrito Brian

-Original Message-
From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:27 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

Brian of the nonburrito ilk -

This is usually called 208 V single-phase.

I'm still trying to clarify the specifics of the request.

Peter Tarver

> -Original Message-
> From: Kunde, Brian
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:34
>
> snip <
>
> I have heard the term "208 split-phase" many times from our customers
> who claim to have this but in reality what they have is 208 3-phase
> wired into a 230V split-phase receptacle but only using 208 Phase to
> Phase with the Grounded Neutral.
>
> snip <

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LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

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Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

[Nyffenegger, Dave]

Been there, done that  with the fan too in order to test at +10%.
-Dave

From: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:11 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?

When I had that same task, I just bought a several kW Variac, connected it 
across the 208 VAC phase of a 3-phase feed, and used the Variac to increase the 
needed 5% or so. A big fan for the Variac can be cheaper than buying a really 
big Variac.


Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA


-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:48 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?



Brian,



Any significant impedance differences between these two supply configurations?



Brian

Sr Burrito Quality Control Engineer



-Original Message-

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:34 PM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] 208 split-phase?



I've never heard of a Utility Company providing 208 "split-phase".



I have heard the term "208 split-phase" many times from our customers who claim 
to have this but in reality what they have is 208 3-phase wired into a 230V 
split-phase receptacle but only using 208 Phase to Phase with the Grounded 
Neutral.



In our EMC lab, we do not have a true 220 split-phase so we use 208 with a 
grounded neutral. It is the closest thing we have to test 220 volt household 
appliances like ranges, ovens, microwaves, and dryers.  We know it is not 
exactly the same but close.



The Other Brian





-Original Message-

From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@ieee.org]

Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 10:22 AM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] 208 split-phase?



Good morning.



There are oftensmall, legacy grids that you come across or hear about.



I was recently told that some areas of the Northeast US have a 208 V, 
split-phase power system to some residences and small businesses.

Still 180° phase-to-phase and presumably 104 V phase-to-Neutral.  A specific 
area cited was "around Boston."



Has anyone heard of or directly experienced this voltage system?

  Is it split-phase or was I misinformed and it's from a WYE connected 
transformer?



Peter Tarver

ptar...@ieee.org



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>

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[PSES] USA Level VI energy efficiency regulations

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues;

I understand that this question is slightly off topic but someone might know 
the answer.
For USA level VI energy efficiency regulations, are power supplies intended for 
professional use only included within the regulations or can they be exempted?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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