Re: [PSES] EN 302 195 Distance Conversion Factor

[ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen]

In the close field area E-field/H-field varies with 1/(r^2) OR 1/(^3) depending 
on the source
and nature of it. In addition at close distances similar fields may have an 
opposite
vector polarity (close to EUT) and may partially cancel each other. 
In general it is not a good idea measuring close field components to draw 
conclusions
on radiated emission components at greater distances, as these components do 
not 
actually radiate.
That is why you won’t find any conversion factors for frequencies below 30 MHz,
at distances shorter than the close-far field transition zone. (lambda/2pi)

Of course measurements in this area make sense about the EMI-level  at the 
measurement point,
and that is why some standards make measurements in the close field at a 
predefined distance.
Changing that distance will make measurements incomparable.


 
Regards,

Ing. Gert Gremmen
Approvals manager



+ ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment
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From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday 6 December 2016 00:46
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EN 302 195 Distance Conversion Factor

Dear Members,

What is the appropriate distance conversion factor per EN 302 195, 9 kHz - 30 
MHz?  The limits were specified at 10m.  Test data was too low to be detected 
at 10m and 3m.  1m distance was used to collect some data.

EN 300 330 provides a chart for the distance conversion factors between 3m and 
10m.  It seems there is no such information in EN 302 195.

Thank you very much for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,
Grace Lin
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Re: [PSES] EN 302 195 Distance Conversion Factor

[John Woodgate]

In the absence of any other solution, you could use the 300 330 factor and 
explain why In an 'EMC assessment document'.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and 
Associates Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 11:46 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EN 302 195 Distance Conversion Factor
 
Dear Members,
 
What is the appropriate distance conversion factor per EN 302 195, 9 kHz - 30 
MHz?  The limits were specified at 10m.  Test data was too low to be detected 
at 10m and 3m.  1m distance was used to collect some data.
 
EN 300 330 provides a chart for the distance conversion factors between 3m and 
10m.  It seems there is no such information in EN 302 195.
 
Thank you very much for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.
 
Best regards,
Grace Lin
-

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[PSES] EN 302 195 Distance Conversion Factor

[Grace Lin]

Dear Members,

What is the appropriate distance conversion factor per EN 302 195, 9 kHz -
30 MHz?  The limits were specified at 10m.  Test data was too low to be
detected at 10m and 3m.  1m distance was used to collect some data.

EN 300 330 provides a chart for the distance conversion factors between 3m
and 10m.  It seems there is no such information in EN 302 195.

Thank you very much for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,
Grace Lin

-

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Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

[Ted Eckert]

I can confirm Mr. Larkin’s and Mr. Woodgate’s statements.

The UK and Ireland have a national difference for IEC 60950-1 reads as follows.

2.7.1: In the United Kingdom, to protect against excessive currents and 
short-circuits in the PRIMARY CIRCUIT of DIRECT PLUG-IN EQUIPMENT, tests 
according to 5.3 shall be conducted, using an external protective device rated 
30 A or 32 A. If these tests fail, suitable protective devices shall be 
included as integral parts of the DIRECT PLUG-IN EQUIPMENT, so that the 
requirements of 5.3 are met.

Here is the corresponding national difference for IEC 62368-1.

B.3.1 and B.4: To protect against excessive currents and short-circuits in the 
primary circuit of direct plug-in equipment, tests according to Annexes B.3.1 
and B.4 shall be conducted using an external miniature circuit breaker 
complying with EN 60898-1, Type B, rated 32A.  If the equipment does not pass 
these tests, suitable protective devices shall be included as an integral part 
of the direct plug-in equipment, until the requirements of Annexes B.3.1 and 
B.4 are met.

Ted Eckert
Microsoft Corporation

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer.

From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 5:58 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

It's in 62389-1 as well.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

From: Matthew Larkin [mailto:m.lar...@samsung.com]
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 1:48 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

I believe there is a UK Special National Condition in EN60950-1 that states 
fault tests shall be conducted with an external 30A or 32A protection device 
and if the Direct Plug In Equipment fails the requirements of fault tests a 
protection device shall be fitted as an integral part of the Direct Plug In 
Equipment.

Best Regards

Matthew

Matthew Larkin
Samsung Electronics (UK) Ltd


From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: 04 December 2016 19:17
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply


Do you have any recommendation of reference book about UK system requiring the 
use of fuse protection?

My recollection is the U.K. Wiring Regulations.

Best wishes for the holiday season,
Rich

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Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

[John Allen]

Scott

 

With great respect to Rich , that’s will tell you an awful lot about the UK 
building wiring system – provided you have the patience to study it in detail, 
but I rather doubt it will tell you much about the PSU issue because the IEE 
Regs (BS 7671 BTW) because it based on the IEC 60364 series and it does not 
discuss the design, construction and testing of portable equipment as that is 
left down to product standards such as those which have been mentioned.

 

John E Allen

W.London, UK

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 05 December 2016 16:28
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

 

Hi Rich,

 

Thanks for sharing!  I will get the regulation to study.

 

Regards,

 

Scott

 

 

 

 

From: Richard Nute 
Reply-To: 
Date: Monday, 5 December 2016 at 3:17 AM
To: 'Scott Xe' , 
Subject: RE: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

 

 

Do you have any recommendation of reference book about UK system requiring the 
use of fuse protection?

 

My recollection is the U.K. Wiring Regulations.  

 

Best wishes for the holiday season,

Rich

 

-


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Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

[Scott Xe]

Hi Rich,

 

Thanks for sharing!  I will get the regulation to study.

 

Regards,

 

Scott

 

 

 

 

From: Richard Nute 
Reply-To: 
Date: Monday, 5 December 2016 at 3:17 AM
To: 'Scott Xe' , 
Subject: RE: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

 

 

Do you have any recommendation of reference book about UK system requiring the 
use of fuse protection?

 

My recollection is the U.K. Wiring Regulations.  

 

Best wishes for the holiday season,

Rich

 


-

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Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

[John Woodgate]

It's in 62389-1 as well.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and 
Associates Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: Matthew Larkin [mailto:m.lar...@samsung.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 1:48 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply
 
I believe there is a UK Special National Condition in EN60950-1 that states 
fault tests shall be conducted with an external 30A or 32A protection device 
and if the Direct Plug In Equipment fails the requirements of fault tests a 
protection device shall be fitted as an integral part of the Direct Plug In 
Equipment.
 
Best Regards
 
Matthew
 
Matthew Larkin
Samsung Electronics (UK) Ltd
 
 
From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: 04 December 2016 19:17
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply
 
 
Do you have any recommendation of reference book about UK system requiring the 
use of fuse protection?
 
My recollection is the U.K. Wiring Regulations.  
 
Best wishes for the holiday season,
Rich
 
-

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Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

[Matthew Larkin]

I believe there is a UK Special National Condition in EN60950-1 that states 
fault tests shall be conducted with an external 30A or 32A protection device 
and if the Direct Plug In Equipment fails the requirements of fault tests a 
protection device shall be fitted as an integral part of the Direct Plug In 
Equipment.

 

Best Regards

 

Matthew

 

Matthew Larkin

Samsung Electronics (UK) Ltd

 

 

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: 04 December 2016 19:17
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

 

 

Do you have any recommendation of reference book about UK system requiring the 
use of fuse protection?

 

My recollection is the U.K. Wiring Regulations.  

 

Best wishes for the holiday season,

Rich

 

-


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