[PSES] RED Harmonised Standards

[ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen]

I did not read it on this list yet (unless a post missed by box again), but 
last week a new version of the list of Harmonised standards has been published 
(C76 10-3-2017) for the RED (2014/53/EC) 15 pages now of our beloved 
literature

Regards,

Ing. Gert Gremmen
Approvals manager



Web:    www.cetest.nl  (English) www.ce-test.nl (Dutch) www.cetest.fr (under 
construction)
Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
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Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts

[Richard Nute]

 

Hi John A:

 

Still looking for opinions on the question though
- do our Standards consider how the part is made?


 

Consider the Y capacitor.  It must comply with the
requirements in IEC 60384-1.  Type and routine
tests.  Same as for a finished product.  

 

Supposedly, routine tests address the consistency
of how the part or product is made.

 

Best regards,

Rich 

 

 

 


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Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts

[Nyffenegger, Dave]

Standards should be evaluating the final part, not how it's made.  It should 
not matter how it's made as long as future parts are made identical to the 
original that was evaluated.  I've never had a lab question or show any 
interest in how a part was manufactured.  They care that there is a 
quality/change control process in place so that products continue to be 
manufactured the same as the original that was evaluated.

I agree that article doesn't really state anything new that wouldn't apply to 
existing parts or manufacturing process.

-Dave

From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 9:26 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts


Hi John,



I agree and their case of risk is a failure in the printer, the the printed 
part.  Still looking for opinions on the question though - do our Standards 
consider how the part is made?  If not, does it matter?  My gut says it doesn't 
matter, our Standards are written to evaluate a design, regardless of how it's 
manufactured.  But is that thinking still valid?





John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc.

Your Outsourced Compliance Department(r)

630-238-0188
www.productsafetyinc.com


IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Acting President

IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Chicago Chapter Past Chair

Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance
https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html


From: John Woodgate 
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 8:17 AM
To: John Allen; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts


None of the cited risks applies exclusively to 3D printed parts. You can just 
delete '3 D printed' everywhere, except in the first case, and it is still true.



The first case is a red herring; the printer failed and caused damage. But if 
it complied with 62368-1 (or maybe 60204-1), the wires would not have come 
loose and/or would not contact the heat source.



With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only

www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh England



Sylvae in aeternum manent.



From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 2:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts



Hi,



The link below is an interesting article on the risks of 3D printed parts.  I 
wonder, however, if it's a mere scare tactic by Travelers for more insurance, 
or is there something more to this?  In theory, the requirements for any part 
(regardless of how it's manufactured) are covered in our Standards, right??



Has anyone ever looked at the requirements from a view of how the part is 
manufactured?  Should we?  How do we know the requirements are adequate 
regardless of the mfg'ring process?  How do we know we're not missing something?



If the link below doesn't work, google Travelers preparing for the risks of 3D 
printing in manufacturing and it should come up.  The article was on linkedin.



https://www.travelers.com/business-insights/industries/technology/preparing-for-risks-of-3d-printing-in-manufacturing?MMT=DS_mmc=LinkedIn_Paid-_-BI-_-Technology-_-4RisksIT=145544556=317197804=78800898=10907740=CIXq9sqa9NICFVODaQodGcAHvA



John



John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc.

Your Outsourced Compliance Department(r)

630-238-0188

IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Acting President

IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Chicago Chapter Past Chair

Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance



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>

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[PSES] European wire numbering?

[Doug Nix]

Colleagues,

I have been scouring IEC 61082-1 to see if I can find a prescribed method for 
identifying individual conductors in a panel (not conductors in a multi 
conductor cable). The discussion centres around the identification of 
individual conductors inside a control panel. I am trying to understand how IEC 
61082-1 identifies individual wires like this. In North America, one approach 
is to have horizontal line numbers on each schematic page. The line number is 
tied to the page number in the drawing set. A conductor which starts on sheet 
31 of a drawing set has the first digits of the line number matching the sheet 
number. The next digit is the line number. Wires on each line are then numbered 
sequentially from left to right, 3171, 3172, etc. In the field, you can look at 
a wire in a panel and know that it starts on page 31, row 7, and easily find it.

So my question is: how is this done in IEC? Looking at IEC 61082-1, I don’t see 
a specific way. I see cross-referencing information in Section 5.8, and I could 
approximate the method i just described as /31.A1 (sheet 31, area A1), but then 
there is no way to individually identify conductors. Any input you can provide 
would be helpful.


Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org
+1 (519) 729-5704


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Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts

[John Woodgate]

I don't see how standards could deal with how parts are made. Where safety
depends on physical strength, standards can include tests to make sure it is
adequate. The same applies where safety depends on, for example, the integrity
of insulation inside components.
 
The preference order for specification in standards is:
 
1. Specify performance - does not restrict innovation;
 
2. Specify design - might not restrict innovation;
 
3. Specify construction - severely limits innovation.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates
Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] 
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 2:26 PM
To: John Woodgate ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts
 
Hi John,
 
I agree and their case of risk is a failure in the printer, the the printed
part.  Still looking for opinions on the question though - do our Standards
consider how the part is made?  If not, does it matter?  My gut says it doesn't
matter, our Standards are written to evaluate a design, regardless of how it's
manufactured.  But is that thinking still valid?
 
 
John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc.
Your Outsourced Compliance DepartmentR
630-238-0188
  www.productsafetyinc.com
 
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Acting President
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Chicago Chapter Past Chair
Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance
https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html
 
  _  

From: John Woodgate  >
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 8:17 AM
To: John Allen; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: RE: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts 
 
None of the cited risks applies exclusively to 3D printed parts. You can just
delete '3 D printed' everywhere, except in the first case, and it is still true.

 
The first case is a red herring; the printer failed and caused damage. But if it
complied with 62368-1 (or maybe 60204-1), the wires would not have come loose
and/or would not contact the heat source.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates
Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] 
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 2:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts
 
Hi,
 
The link below is an interesting article on the risks of 3D printed parts.  I
wonder, however, if it's a mere scare tactic by Travelers for more insurance, or
is there something more to this?  In theory, the requirements for any part
(regardless of how it's manufactured) are covered in our Standards, right??
 
Has anyone ever looked at the requirements from a view of how the part is
manufactured?  Should we?  How do we know the requirements are adequate
regardless of the mfg'ring process?  How do we know we're not missing something?
 
If the link below doesn't work, google Travelers preparing for the risks of 3D
printing in manufacturing and it should come up.  The article was on linkedin.
 
https://www.travelers.com/business-insights/industries/technology/preparing-for-
risks-of-3d-printing-in-manufacturing?MMT=DS

_mmc=LinkedIn_Paid-_-BI-_-Technology-_-4RisksIT=145544556=317197804&
cid=78800898=10907740=CIXq9sqa9NICFVODaQodGcAHvA
 
John
 
John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc.
Your Outsourced Compliance DepartmentR
630-238-0188
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Acting President
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Chicago Chapter Past Chair
Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance
 
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
 >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 

Re: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts

[John Woodgate]

None of the cited risks applies exclusively to 3D printed parts. You can just
delete '3 D printed' everywhere, except in the first case, and it is still true.

 
The first case is a red herring; the printer failed and caused damage. But if it
complied with 62368-1 (or maybe 60204-1), the wires would not have come loose
and/or would not contact the heat source.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates
Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] 
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 2:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] 3D Printed Parts
 
Hi,
 
The link below is an interesting article on the risks of 3D printed parts.  I
wonder, however, if it's a mere scare tactic by Travelers for more insurance, or
is there something more to this?  In theory, the requirements for any part
(regardless of how it's manufactured) are covered in our Standards, right??
 
Has anyone ever looked at the requirements from a view of how the part is
manufactured?  Should we?  How do we know the requirements are adequate
regardless of the mfg'ring process?  How do we know we're not missing something?
 
If the link below doesn't work, google Travelers preparing for the risks of 3D
printing in manufacturing and it should come up.  The article was on linkedin.
 
https://www.travelers.com/business-insights/industries/technology/preparing-for-
risks-of-3d-printing-in-manufacturing?MMT=DS

_mmc=LinkedIn_Paid-_-BI-_-Technology-_-4RisksIT=145544556=317197804&
cid=78800898=10907740=CIXq9sqa9NICFVODaQodGcAHvA
 
John
 
John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc.
Your Outsourced Compliance DepartmentR
630-238-0188
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Acting President
IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Chicago Chapter Past Chair
Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance
 
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
 >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas  >
Mike Cantwell  > 
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher  >
David Heald  > 

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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formats), large files, etc.

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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
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[PSES] 3D Printed Parts

[John Allen]

Hi,


The link below is an interesting article on the risks of 3D printed parts.  I 
wonder, however, if it's a mere scare tactic by Travelers for more insurance, 
or is there something more to this?  In theory, the requirements for any part 
(regardless of how it's manufactured) are covered in our Standards, right??


Has anyone ever looked at the requirements from a view of how the part is 
manufactured?  Should we?  How do we know the requirements are adequate 
regardless of the mfg'ring process?  How do we know we're not missing something?


If the link below doesn't work, google Travelers preparing for the risks of 3D 
printing in manufacturing and it should come up.  The article was on linkedin.


https://www.travelers.com/business-insights/industries/technology/preparing-for-risks-of-3d-printing-in-manufacturing?MMT=DS_mmc=LinkedIn_Paid-_-BI-_-Technology-_-4RisksIT=145544556=317197804=78800898=10907740=CIXq9sqa9NICFVODaQodGcAHvA


John


John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc.

Your Outsourced Compliance Department®

630-238-0188

IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Acting President

IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society - Chicago Chapter Past Chair

Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
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Jim Bacher:  
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