Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?

[worldwideemc]

Thank you to all who responded!.

BR,
Andy

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 2:46 AM CATHERINE PEARSON <
0b0df63784fb-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
> I totally agree, this is the approach that we taking.
>
>
> I believe for products that are covered by a self declaration, its still
> fairly unchanged.
>
> A suitable test report from a lab should be acceptable regardless of the
> country etc.
>
>
> For myself its medical products, you have the MDD / MDR change and that's
> still being worked on and is late !
>
>
> But its still fairly straight forward if you embraced the change.
>
>
> Regards Darren.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Peter J. Knight" 
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Sent: Monday, 21 Jun, 21 At 09:21
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?
>
> Hi Darren,
>
> Further to Charlie’s comments, here is an additional angle:
>
> Corresponding to the EU’s citation of harmonised standards in the Official
> Journal of the EU (OJEU) that give a presumption of conformity, the UK now
> maintains a comparable list of “Designated Standards” that can be reached
> from here .
>
> You will find that for each discipline (EMC, electrical safety etc) the
> lists of designated standards are pretty much identical to the harmonised
> standards published in the OJEU.
>
> So a test reports to such shared standards give a presumption of
> conformity for both EU and UK markets. If the lists diverge in the future,
> then in affected cases this commonality may no longer hold.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Peter
>
> *From:* Charlie Blackham 
> *Sent:* 19 June 2021 20:48
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?
>
> Darren
>
> The “Conformity Assessment Body” is the Notified Body (EU) of Competent
> Body (UK)
>
> This advice isn’t as clearly written as it could be – that last sentence
> has nothing to do with product testing or test labs
>
> Best regards
>
> Charlie
>
> *Charlie Blackham*
>
> *Sulis Consultants Ltd*
>
> *Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317*
>
> *Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/  *
>
> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
>
> *From:* Darren @ Vitesses 
> *Sent:* 19 June 2021 13:20
> *To:* Charlie Blackham 
> *Cc:* EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?
>
> Hi Charles
>
> Can you explain your last sentence, “ the conformity assessment bodies
> that test them need to be different”
>
> From my understanding a test lab can test to mutiple country standards and
> results used, ssuming its self declaration .
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 19 Jun 2021, at 12:44, Charlie Blackham 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Andy
>
> > some folks are asking for a UK test report
>
> Some folks are confused then 
>
>
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/placing-manufactured-goods-on-the-market-in-great-britain
>
> *Using both the CE and UKCA marking*
>
> Both the CE and UKCA mark can be placed on a product so long as neither
> impedes the visibility of the other and requirements of both the GB and EU
> legislation are met.
>
> The essential requirements and standards that can be used to demonstrate
> conformity with them for UKCA marked goods have not changed. That means
> that if your good is currently made to the technical requirements necessary
> for CE marking then it will be made to the same technical requirements that
> exist for UKCA marking. However, the conformity assessment bodies that test
> them may need to be different.
>
> Best regards
>
> Charlie
>
> *Charlie Blackham*
>
> *Sulis Consultants Ltd*
>
> *Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317*
>
> *Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/  *
>
> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
>
> *From:* worldwideemc 
> *Sent:* 18 June 2021 19:57
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?
>
> Hi Darren,
>
> Thank you for the information. It makes sense that the CE report should be
> sufficient but some folks are asking for a UK test report. I believe I'm
> not the only one confused on this topic.
>
> BR,
>
> Andy
>
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 11:38 AM Darren @ Vitesses <
> vites...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Andy
>
> Yes
>
> If the reports show you meet the relevant standards that would be fine
>
> But also many international standards are the same, eg the Aus/NZS
> standard has a different name but the set up and limits are identical.
>
> So a report to thoes standards would support a claim of compliance to the
> en standards regardless of the country.
>
> I would recommend drawing up a document explaining the reasoning behind
> it.
>
> Regards Darren
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On 18 Jun 2021, at 18:28, worldwideemc  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hello All,
>
> Can I use my European EMC test report to claim compliance to UK
> regulations? I understand I need to generate a UKCA DoC and apply the UKCA
> 

Re: [PSES] Demonstrating Compliance to the LVD w/o using 62368

[Wiseman, Joshua]

I would document the differences between the two and demonstrate why the 
requirements for both versions are met. Then if you are challenged the homework 
is already done.

Josh

From: Scott Xe 
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 10:03 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Demonstrating Compliance to the LVD w/o using 62368

EXTERNAL SENDER: Verify links, attachments and sender before taking action


Hi Daniel,

Your logic makes sense but we may receive the challenge from MSA who will 
follow the harmonised standards published in OJEU at the time of their survey.  
In case the latest version is relaxed as compared with the current version.  
You may be in trouble!

Regards,

Scott


On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 at 20:08, Rodriguez, Daniel (ESP) 
<123de38bd494-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
 wrote:
Sorry to reopen this topic
The question is the version to apply for EU testing?
1-Last harmonized version is EN IEC 62368-1:2014+AC:2015
2-Last available version is EN IEC 62368-1:2020+A11:2020

Which one shall we test? The equivalent IEC are IEC 62368-1:2014 (ED. 2.0) and 
IEC 62368-1:2018 (ED. 3.0)?
My preference is to test the last available version to avoid future retesting 
next years

Thank you for your answers.


Kind Regards / Saludos cordiales / Mit freundlichen Grüßen



Daniel Rodríguez

Sr. Equipment Compliance Specialist EMEA




From: Ted Eckert 
<07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 9:56 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Demonstrating Compliance to the LVD w/o using 62368

Caution: This email message originated from outside of the organization. DO NOT 
CLICK on links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the 
content is safe. If you think it is suspicious, please report as suspicious.


Hi Chuck,



The biggest change that I have seen is for touch temperatures. IEC 60950-1 
allows continuous contact with plastic at 75 C. Even glass is allows a 
continuous temperature of 70 C. Imagine using one of those new glass-bodied 
cell phones with it at that temperature. IEC 62368-1 reduces the continuous 
contact temperature limit to 48 C for all materials.



There were probably many older laptop computers with plastic cases that could 
exceed 48 C on the bottom surface during use. Those laptops would not comply 
with IEC 62368-1.



This isn't the only item to consider, but it's the one I'm most familiar with. 
There are additional issues related to fire enclosures where a product could 
pass IEC 60950-1 but fail IEC 62368-1 2nd Edition. However, these issues have 
largely be resolved with IEC 62368-1 3rd edition. TC 108 recognized that there 
were many constructions allowed under IEC 60950-1 that were shown to be 
acceptable through years of use, yet disallowed by IEC 62368-1 2nd edition. 
Many issues were resolved with the update.



Ted Eckert

Microsoft Corporation



The opinions experessed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer or TC 108.







From: Chuck August-McDowell 
mailto:chu...@meyersound.com>>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 11:33 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Demonstrating Compliance to the LVD w/o using 
62368



Hi Charles,



Only slightly off your topic "Has anyone experienced having an ITE product that 
complies with IEC60950 requirements, but does not comply with some portions IEC 
62368?"

I work on the audio side so our base standard is 60065. So to rephrase the 
question;

"Has anyone experienced having an audio product that complies with IEC 60065 
requirements, but does not comply with some portions IEC 62368? "

I was informed during factory audit the Hipot test voltage changed from 1500 
VAC to 1768 VAC ?



Oh, and outdoor use also changes from IEC 62368 2ed, calls for using 60950-22 
at current editions, which the 2005 edition did not require a dust test, but 
new (required) 2nd edition requires a dust test, where as 60065 required only 
IPX4 testing.



Let the testing begin!



Respectfully,



Chuck August-McDowell





From: Charles Jackson mailto:cjack...@nvidia.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 7:57 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Demonstrating Compliance to the LVD w/o using 62368



[EXTERNAL EMAIL]

Has anyone experienced having an ITE product that complies with IEC60950 
requirements, but does not comply with some portions IEC 62368?  In particular 
the use of a non-LPS psu.  Is there some sort of risk analysis that can be done 
to prove up conformance to the directive based on 60950 with or without 
supplemental test??



Thanks in advance

Chuck

-

Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?

[CATHERINE PEARSON]

Hi Peter,
I totally agree, this is the approach that we taking.

I believe for products that are covered by a self declaration, its still 
fairly unchanged.
A suitable test report from a lab should be acceptable regardless of the 
country etc.
For myself its medical products, you have the MDD / MDR change and 
that's still being worked on and is late !


But its still fairly straight forward if you embraced the change.

Regards Darren.


-- Original Message --
From: "Peter J. Knight" 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Monday, 21 Jun, 21 At 09:21
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?

Hi Darren,

Further to Charlie’s comments, here is an additional angle:

Corresponding to the EU’s citation of harmonised standards in the 
Official Journal of the EU (OJEU) that give a presumption of conformity, 
the UK now maintains a comparable list of “Designated Standards” that 
can be reached from here 
 .


You will find that for each discipline (EMC, electrical safety etc) the 
lists of designated standards are pretty much identical to the 
harmonised standards published in the OJEU.
So a test reports to such shared standards give a presumption of 
conformity for both EU and UK markets. If the lists diverge in the 
future, then in affected cases this commonality may no longer hold.


Best regards,

Peter


From: Charlie Blackham 
Sent: 19 June 2021 20:48
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?


Darren

The “Conformity Assessment Body” is the Notified Body (EU) of Competent 
Body (UK)


This advice isn’t as clearly written as it could be – that last sentence 
has nothing to do with product testing or test labs


Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ 
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247


From: Darren @ Vitesses  >

Sent: 19 June 2021 13:20
To: Charlie Blackham  >

Cc: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org 
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?


Hi Charles
Can you explain your last sentence, “ the conformity assessment bodies 
that test them need to be different”




From my understanding a test lab can test to mutiple country standards 
and results used,  ssuming its self declaration .



Sent from my iPhone


On 19 Jun 2021, at 12:44, Charlie Blackham  > wrote:



Andy


some folks are asking for a UK test report


Some folks are confused then 
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/placing-manufactured-goods-on-the-market-in-great-britain 



Using both the CE and UKCA marking
Both the CE and UKCA mark can be placed on a product so long as neither 
impedes the visibility of the other and requirements of both the GB and 
EU legislation are met.
The essential requirements and standards that can be used to demonstrate 
conformity with them for UKCA marked goods have not changed. That means 
that if your good is currently made to the technical requirements 
necessary for CE marking then it will be made to the same technical 
requirements that exist for UKCA marking. However, the conformity 
assessment bodies that test them may need to be different.

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ 
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: worldwideemc  >

Sent: 18 June 2021 19:57
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?


Hi Darren,



Thank you for the information. It makes sense that the CE report should 
be sufficient but some folks are asking for a UK test report. I believe 
I'm not the only one confused on this topic.




BR,

Andy



On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 11:38 AM Darren @ Vitesses 
mailto:vites...@btinternet.com> > wrote:


Hi Andy


Yes

If the reports show you meet the relevant standards that would be fine

But also many international standards are the same, eg the Aus/NZS 
standard has a different name but the set up and limits are identical.


So a report to thoes standards would support a claim of compliance to 
the en standards regardless of the country.




I would recommend drawing up a document explaining the reasoning behind 
it.




Regards Darren
Sent from my iPhone


On 18 Jun 2021, at 18:28, worldwideemc  > wrote:




Hello All,



Can I use my European EMC test report to claim compliance to UK 
regulations? I understand I need to generate a UKCA DoC and apply the 
UKCA marking.




The UK designated standards list at the link below lists EN standards 
without any reference to 

Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?

[Peter J. Knight]

Hi Darren,

 

Further to Charlie’s comments, here is an additional angle:

 

Corresponding to the EU’s citation of harmonised standards in the Official 
Journal of the EU (OJEU) that give a presumption of conformity, the UK now 
maintains a comparable list of “Designated Standards” that can be reached from 
here  .

 

You will find that for each discipline (EMC, electrical safety etc) the lists 
of designated standards are pretty much identical to the harmonised standards 
published in the OJEU.

So a test reports to such shared standards give a presumption of conformity for 
both EU and UK markets. If the lists diverge in the future, then in affected 
cases this commonality may no longer hold.

 

Best regards,

 

Peter

 

From: Charlie Blackham  
Sent: 19 June 2021 20:48
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?

 

Darren

 

The “Conformity Assessment Body” is the Notified Body (EU) of Competent Body 
(UK)

 

This advice isn’t as clearly written as it could be – that last sentence has 
nothing to do with product testing or test labs 

 

Best regards

Charlie

 

Charlie Blackham

Sulis Consultants Ltd

Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317

Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ 

Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

 

From: Darren @ Vitesses mailto:vites...@btinternet.com> > 
Sent: 19 June 2021 13:20
To: Charlie Blackham mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> >
Cc: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org  
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?

 

Hi Charles 

Can you explain your last sentence, “ the conformity assessment bodies that 
test them need to be different” 

 

>From my understanding a test lab can test to mutiple country standards and 
>results used,  ssuming its self declaration . 

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On 19 Jun 2021, at 12:44, Charlie Blackham mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> > wrote:

 

Andy

 

> some folks are asking for a UK test report

 

Some folks are confused then 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/placing-manufactured-goods-on-the-market-in-great-britain
 

 

Using both the CE and UKCA marking

Both the CE and UKCA mark can be placed on a product so long as neither impedes 
the visibility of the other and requirements of both the GB and EU legislation 
are met.

The essential requirements and standards that can be used to demonstrate 
conformity with them for UKCA marked goods have not changed. That means that if 
your good is currently made to the technical requirements necessary for CE 
marking then it will be made to the same technical requirements that exist for 
UKCA marking. However, the conformity assessment bodies that test them may need 
to be different.

Best regards

Charlie

 

Charlie Blackham

Sulis Consultants Ltd

Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317

Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ 

Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

 

From: worldwideemc mailto:worldwide...@gmail.com> > 
Sent: 18 June 2021 19:57
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?

 

Hi Darren,

 

Thank you for the information. It makes sense that the CE report should be 
sufficient but some folks are asking for a UK test report. I believe I'm not 
the only one confused on this topic.

 

BR,

Andy

 

On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 11:38 AM Darren @ Vitesses mailto:vites...@btinternet.com> > wrote:

Hi Andy 

 

Yes 

If the reports show you meet the relevant standards that would be fine 

But also many international standards are the same, eg the Aus/NZS standard has 
a different name but the set up and limits are identical. 

So a report to thoes standards would support a claim of compliance to the en 
standards regardless of the country. 

 

I would recommend drawing up a document explaining the reasoning behind it. 

 

Regards Darren 

Sent from my iPhone





On 18 Jun 2021, at 18:28, worldwideemc mailto:worldwide...@gmail.com> > wrote:



Hello All,

 

Can I use my European EMC test report to claim compliance to UK regulations? I 
understand I need to generate a UKCA DoC and apply the UKCA marking.

 

The UK designated standards list at the link below lists EN standards without 
any reference to a British Standard...

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/942100/ds-0007-21-emc-notice.pdf.

 

Any input from the list experts would be appreciated!


-- 

BR,
Andy Parker

-


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