Re: [PSES] IEC 82368-1 3rd Ed and MOV test

[Joe Randolph]

Hi Peter:

 

You are not alone in finding the MOV requirements in Annex G.8 of IEC 62368-1 
to be very confusing.  There has been a lot of confusion over Annex G.8

 

In an effort to help clear up some of the confusion, I wrote an article in the 
October 2018 issue of Incompliance Magazine.  The article is titled, “New 
requirements for MOVs used for surge protection on AC mains ports.”

 

I don’t think attachments are allowed on this listserver, but you can download 
the article from either my web site or the Incompliance Magazine web site.  
Following is an excerpt from the article:

 

The MOV requirements in IEC 62368-1 are only a few pages long, but they are 
difficult for ordinary design engineers to understand.  While the two main 
issues that the MOV requirements are trying to address are electric shock and 
risk of fire, it is not always clear which of these two hazards a given 
requirement is trying to address.  

 

A key goal of this article is to help readers of IEC 62368-1 understand the 
underlying safety concerns that the new requirements are trying to address.  
This understanding can be quite helpful when attempting to interpret the stated 
requirements.  In particular, knowing the underlying concerns is helpful for 
understanding the various exemptions and alternate solutions that are permitted.

 

 

The bottom line is that MOVs can still be used on AC mains ports (even in 
plastic enclosures), but some additional safeguards are now required.  The 
additional safeguards are not particularly difficult of expensive to provide.

 

If you still have questions after reading the article, feel free to contact me.

 

 

Joe Randolph

Telecom Design Consultant

Randolph Telecom, Inc.

781-721-2848 (USA)

  j...@randolph-telecom.com

  http://www.randolph-telecom.com

 

From: peterh...@aol.com 
[mailto:06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 5:32 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] IEC 82368-1 3rd Ed and MOV test

 

Hello group,

 

Does anyone know what the is purpose of introducing Clause G8? What purpose 
does it serves and why was it introduced? It seems to me that is almost 
impossible to comply with this clause  unless you remove the MOV which brings 
EMI issues. I am working with a client who makes desktop adapter with plastic 
enclosure and they have not been able to come up with a solution yet. Any 
pointer?

 

Thank you

Peter

 

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[PSES] IEC 82368-1 3rd Ed and MOV test

[peterh...@aol.com]

Hello group,
Does anyone know what the is purpose of introducing Clause G8? What purpose 
does it serves and why was it introduced? It seems to me that is almost 
impossible to comply with this clause  unless you remove the MOV which brings 
EMI issues. I am working with a client who makes desktop adapter with plastic 
enclosure and they have not been able to come up with a solution yet. Any 
pointer?
Thank youPeter

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Re: [PSES] Techstreet Tracking standards

[Tom Smith]

Interesting. I looked at Techstreet history and it says that a division of
ASME bought out Techstreet.

Regards,

Tom Smith, P.Eng 

Principal Engineer
TJS Technical Services Inc.

Tel: +1 403-612-6664 

Email:   tsm...@tjstechnical.com 
  http://tjstechnical.com 

Compliance News Updates: https://corp.social/@TJS_Technical

 

From: Brian Gregory  
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 2:01 PM
To: tsm...@tjstechnical.com
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Techstreet Tracking standards

 

Word is that IEEE/SA bought up Techstreet a while back.

My Chrome browser automatically routes me to IEEE/SA.  The Edge browser gets
me to the old Techstreet page, and tells me that I'm already registered  :-)

 

So, they must be one... at some point!

 

 

Brian Gregory
720-450-4933



-- Original Message --
From: mailto:tsm...@tjstechnical.com> >
To: "'Brian Gregory'" mailto:brian_greg...@netzero.net> >
Subject: RE: Techstreet Tracking standards
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 16:08:47 -0600

Brian,

 

That is strange. That is not what I get when I go to Tecstreet.com. It is a
private company that sells standards:

 

https://www.techstreet.com/

Regards,

Tom Smith, P.Eng 

Principal Engineer
TJS Technical Services Inc.

Tel: +1 403-612-6664 

Email:   tsm...@tjstechnical.com 
  http://tjstechnical.com

Compliance News Updates: https://corp.social/@TJS_Technical

 

From: Brian Gregory mailto:brian_greg...@netzero.net> > 
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 3:56 PM
To: tsm...@tjstechnical.com  
Subject: Fw: Techstreet Tracking standards

 

 Hi Tom,

thanks for the feedback.  The Techstreet URL points me to the IEEE/SA
(standards association).

It looks so similar to my normal IEEE account, that I thought I was a
subscriber to SA, but I can't say I'm 100% confident in that.  Often, things
that say they're available at the SA website don't seem to work with my IEEE
membership.  For instance, I just asked them about ANSI C63.4, which is
supposed to be free. 

 

I guess I'll try again to IEEE/SA  and set up a new, different account.

 

 Regards,

 

Brian Gregory

Denver, Colorado
720-450-4933



-- Forwarded Message --
From: Tom Smith mailto:tsm...@tjstechnical.com> >
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 11:36:57 -0600

Brian,

 

For IEC and EN, EVS in Estonia (www.evs.ee  ) has a
Information Service. You can set up an account there and tell them what
standards you want monitored for changes.

 

For general standards, Techstreet.com has a standards tracker. This should
cover standards for US and for UK also.

Regards,

Tom Smith, P.Eng 

Principal Engineer
TJS Technical Services Inc.

Tel: +1 403-612-6664 

Email:   tsm...@tjstechnical.com 
  http://tjstechnical.com

Compliance News Updates: https://corp.social/@TJS_Technical

 

From: Brian Gregory mailto:brian_greg...@netzero.net> > 
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 11:21 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: [PSES] Tracking standards updates

 

 

Good afternoon compliance colleagues,

 

Have a curiously open-ended question from a major OEM who's very
process-oriented.

So, I'm gathering ideas on how to track standard updates and changes in
multiple markets (US, EU, etc.).

 

I'm familiar with IAEI for collaborating with NA inspectors on NEC updates,
and know that UL & ETL have various update notice/networks, but have no idea
how to track IEC updates, nor residential code changes for someplace like
the UK.  This is applicable mostly for safety, perhaps a little on EMC.

 

thanks!

 

"Colorado" Brian 
720-450-4933

 

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https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC
 &A=1

 


 

Virus-free.
 ww

Re: [PSES] Techstreet Tracking standards

[Brian Gregory]

Word is that IEEE/SA bought up Techstreet a while back.My Chrome browser 
automatically routes me to IEEE/SA.  The Edge browser gets me to the old 
Techstreet page, and tells me that I'm already registered  :-) So, they must be 
one... at some point!  Brian Gregory
720-450-4933

-- Original Message --
From: 
To: "'Brian Gregory'" 
Subject: RE: Techstreet Tracking standards
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 16:08:47 -0600


Brian,
 
That is strange. That is not what I get when I go to Tecstreet.com. It is a 
private company that sells standards:
 
https://www.techstreet.com/
Regards,
Tom Smith, P.Eng 
Principal Engineer
TJS Technical Services Inc.
Tel: +1 403-612-6664 
Email: tsm...@tjstechnical.com 
http://tjstechnical.com
Compliance News Updates: https://corp.social/@TJS_Technical
 
From: Brian Gregory  
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 3:56 PM
To: tsm...@tjstechnical.com
Subject: Fw: Techstreet Tracking standards
 
 Hi Tom,
thanks for the feedback.  The Techstreet URL points me to the IEEE/SA 
(standards association).
It looks so similar to my normal IEEE account, that I thought I was a 
subscriber to SA, but I can't say I'm 100% confident in that.  Often, things 
that say they're available at the SA website don't seem to work with my IEEE 
membership.  For instance, I just asked them about ANSI C63.4, which is 
supposed to be free. 
 
I guess I'll try again to IEEE/SA  and set up a new, different account.
 
 Regards,
 
Brian Gregory
Denver, Colorado
720-450-4933


-- Forwarded Message --
From: Tom Smith 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 11:36:57 -0600
Brian,
 
For IEC and EN, EVS in Estonia (www.evs.ee) has a Information Service. You can 
set up an account there and tell them what standards you want monitored for 
changes.
 
For general standards, Techstreet.com has a standards tracker. This should 
cover standards for US and for UK also.
Regards,
Tom Smith, P.Eng 
Principal Engineer
TJS Technical Services Inc.
Tel: +1 403-612-6664 
Email: tsm...@tjstechnical.com 
http://tjstechnical.com
Compliance News Updates: https://corp.social/@TJS_Technical
 
From: Brian Gregory  
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 11:21 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Tracking standards updates
 
 
Good afternoon compliance colleagues,
 
Have a curiously open-ended question from a major OEM who's very 
process-oriented.
So, I'm gathering ideas on how to track standard updates and changes in 
multiple markets (US, EU, etc.).
 
I'm familiar with IAEI for collaborating with NA inspectors on NEC updates, and 
know that UL & ETL have various update notice/networks, but have no idea how to 
track IEC updates, nor residential code changes for someplace like the UK.  
This is applicable mostly for safety, perhaps a little on EMC.
 
thanks!
 
"Colorado" Brian 
720-450-4933
 
-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
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Jim Bacher 
David Heald 
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https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
 
 
Virus-free.www.avast.com
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___

Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates

[Chuck August-McDowell]

Hi Brian,

I subscribe to ANSI Standards Action.
Standards Action is ANSI's free weekly publication covering current standards 
development activities in the U.S. and internationally.
https://www.ansi.org/resource-center/standards-action

Chuck in Berkeley

From: Scott Aldous <0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 8:22 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates


[THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]
Hi Brian,

If you are only interested in getting updates on standards, Techstreet has a 
free service that 
is helpful, which you can tailor to get updates on the specific standards you 
are interested in.

On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 2:17 AM Philip Stevenson 
mailto:pw...@hotmail.co.uk>> wrote:
Dear Brian

To keep up to date with TEC standard updates you can get a free subscription to 
the IEC Webstore monthly IEC Just Published Newsletter via Email.

You can subscribe at:
IEC - International Electrotechnical Commission 
(list-manage.com)

Hope this helps.

Regards

Philip Stevenson

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Graevinghoff Andreas 
(XC-HWP/PJ-ESR)
Sent: 20 June 2023 07:51
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates

Hi Brian,

Another option would be the IEC public commenting service to get access & 
comment on IEC draft standards:

https://www.iec.ch/how-get-involved/public-commenting

The service will notify you by e-mail as new drafts become available, access is 
possible during the comment period.

Andreas

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

Dr. Andreas Graevinghoff

Cross-Domain Computing Solutions, Project - Engineering System Rack 
(XC-HWP/PJ-ESR)
Robert Bosch GmbH | Postfach 30 02 40 | 70442 Stuttgart | GERMANY | 
www.bosch.com
Tel. +49 711 811-22343 | Mobile +49 174 
6929311 | 
andreas.graevingh...@de.bosch.com

Registered Office: Stuttgart, Registration Court: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 
14000;
Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Prof. Dr. Stefan Asenkerschbaumer; Managing 
Directors: Dr. Stefan Hartung,
Dr. Christian Fischer, Dr. Markus Forschner, Stefan Grosch, Dr. Markus Heyn, 
Dr. Tanja Rückert
​
From: Richard Nute mailto:ri...@ieee.org>>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 22:21
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates


Hi Brian:

Here are two suggestions:

Nemko “News in Brief” by Trond Sollie
https://www.nemko.com/newsletter-signup?utm_campaign=GL+%7C+News+In+Brief+%7C+2023&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=260848842&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9wg1SKLg3ST3lYTRveyREPMCOsX59duFm4ykvI1h4BlxMCmJDd1wPbs0VeVrYM0_W6GpdGfdkrBjqi51fuXKs-m00DTw&utm_content=260848842&utm_source=hs_email

Intertek:
https://www.intertek.com/regulatory-resources/

I suspect there are other similar sources, but they may be hard to find.

Good luck!
Rich


From: Brian Gregory 
mailto:brian_greg...@netzero.net>>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 10:21 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Tracking standards updates


Good afternoon compliance colleagues,

Have a curiously open-ended question from a major OEM who's very 
process-oriented.
So, I'm gathering ideas on how to track standard updates and changes in 
multiple markets (US, EU, etc.).

I'm familiar with IAEI for collaborating with NA inspectors on NEC updates, and 
know that UL & ETL have various update notice/networks, but have no idea how to 
track IEC updates, nor residential code changes for someplace like the UK.  
This is applicable mostly for safety, perhaps a little on EMC.

thanks!

"Colorado" Brian
720-450-4933

-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

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unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>


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-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
dis

Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates

[Scott Aldous]

Hi Brian,

If you are only interested in getting updates on standards, Techstreet has
a free service 
that is helpful, which you can tailor to get updates on the specific
standards you are interested in.

On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 2:17 AM Philip Stevenson 
wrote:

> Dear Brian
>
>
>
> To keep up to date with TEC standard updates you can get a free
> subscription to the IEC Webstore monthly IEC Just Published Newsletter via
> Email.
>
>
>
> You can subscribe at:
>
> IEC - International Electrotechnical Commission (list-manage.com)
> 
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Philip Stevenson
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows
>
>
>
> *From: *Graevinghoff Andreas (XC-HWP/PJ-ESR)
> <24284de5ef35-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
> *Sent: *20 June 2023 07:51
> *To: *EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject: *Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates
>
>
>
> Hi Brian,
>
>
>
> Another option would be the IEC public commenting service to get access &
> comment on IEC draft standards:
>
>
>
> https://www.iec.ch/how-get-involved/public-commenting
>
>
>
> The service will notify you by e-mail as new drafts become available,
> access is possible during the comment period.
>
>
>
> Andreas
>
>
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
>
> *Dr. Andreas Graevinghoff*
>
> Cross-Domain Computing Solutions, Project - Engineering System Rack
> (XC-HWP/PJ-ESR)
> Robert Bosch GmbH | Postfach 30 02 40 | 70442 Stuttgart | GERMANY |
> www.bosch.com
> Tel. +49 711 811-22343 <+49%20711%2081122343> | Mobile +49 174 6929311
> <+49%20174%206929311> | andreas.graevingh...@de.bosch.com
>
> Registered Office: Stuttgart, Registration Court: Amtsgericht Stuttgart,
> HRB 14000;
> Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Prof. Dr. Stefan Asenkerschbaumer;
> Managing Directors: Dr. Stefan Hartung,
> Dr. Christian Fischer, Dr. Markus Forschner, Stefan Grosch, Dr. Markus
> Heyn, Dr. Tanja Rückert
> ​
>
> *From:* Richard Nute 
> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2023 22:21
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Brian:
>
>
>
> Here are two suggestions:
>
>
>
> Nemko “News in Brief” by Trond Sollie
>
>
> https://www.nemko.com/newsletter-signup?utm_campaign=GL+%7C+News+In+Brief+%7C+2023&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=260848842&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9wg1SKLg3ST3lYTRveyREPMCOsX59duFm4ykvI1h4BlxMCmJDd1wPbs0VeVrYM0_W6GpdGfdkrBjqi51fuXKs-m00DTw&utm_content=260848842&utm_source=hs_email
>
>
>
> Intertek:
>
> https://www.intertek.com/regulatory-resources/
>
>
>
> I suspect there are other similar sources, but they may be hard to find.
>
>
>
> Good luck!
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Brian Gregory 
> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2023 10:21 AM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* [PSES] Tracking standards updates
>
>
>
>
>
> Good afternoon compliance colleagues,
>
>
>
> Have a curiously open-ended question from a major OEM who's very
> process-oriented.
>
> So, I'm gathering ideas on how to track standard updates and changes in
> multiple markets (US, EU, etc.).
>
>
>
> I'm familiar with IAEI for collaborating with NA inspectors on NEC
> updates, and know that UL & ETL have various update notice/networks, but
> have no idea how to track IEC updates, nor residential code changes for
> someplace like the UK.  This is applicable mostly for safety, perhaps a
> little on EMC.
>
>
>
> thanks!
>
>
>
> "Colorado" Brian
> 720-450-4933 <(720)%20450-4933>
>
>
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Mike Cantwell 
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher 
> David Heald 
>
> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link:
> https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
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Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates

[Philip Stevenson]

Dear Brian

To keep up to date with TEC standard updates you can get a free subscription to 
the IEC Webstore monthly IEC Just Published Newsletter via Email.

You can subscribe at:
IEC - International Electrotechnical Commission 
(list-manage.com)

Hope this helps.

Regards

Philip Stevenson

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Graevinghoff Andreas 
(XC-HWP/PJ-ESR)
Sent: 20 June 2023 07:51
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates

Hi Brian,

Another option would be the IEC public commenting service to get access & 
comment on IEC draft standards:

https://www.iec.ch/how-get-involved/public-commenting

The service will notify you by e-mail as new drafts become available, access is 
possible during the comment period.

Andreas

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

Dr. Andreas Graevinghoff

Cross-Domain Computing Solutions, Project - Engineering System Rack 
(XC-HWP/PJ-ESR)
Robert Bosch GmbH | Postfach 30 02 40 | 70442 Stuttgart | GERMANY | 
www.bosch.com
Tel. +49 711 811-22343 | Mobile +49 174 6929311 | 
andreas.graevingh...@de.bosch.com

Registered Office: Stuttgart, Registration Court: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 
14000;
Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Prof. Dr. Stefan Asenkerschbaumer; Managing 
Directors: Dr. Stefan Hartung,
Dr. Christian Fischer, Dr. Markus Forschner, Stefan Grosch, Dr. Markus Heyn, 
Dr. Tanja Rückert
​
From: Richard Nute 
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 22:21
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates


Hi Brian:

Here are two suggestions:

Nemko “News in Brief” by Trond Sollie
https://www.nemko.com/newsletter-signup?utm_campaign=GL+%7C+News+In+Brief+%7C+2023&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=260848842&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9wg1SKLg3ST3lYTRveyREPMCOsX59duFm4ykvI1h4BlxMCmJDd1wPbs0VeVrYM0_W6GpdGfdkrBjqi51fuXKs-m00DTw&utm_content=260848842&utm_source=hs_email

Intertek:
https://www.intertek.com/regulatory-resources/

I suspect there are other similar sources, but they may be hard to find.

Good luck!
Rich


From: Brian Gregory 
mailto:brian_greg...@netzero.net>>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 10:21 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Tracking standards updates


Good afternoon compliance colleagues,

Have a curiously open-ended question from a major OEM who's very 
process-oriented.
So, I'm gathering ideas on how to track standard updates and changes in 
multiple markets (US, EU, etc.).

I'm familiar with IAEI for collaborating with NA inspectors on NEC updates, and 
know that UL & ETL have various update notice/networks, but have no idea how to 
track IEC updates, nor residential code changes for someplace like the UK.  
This is applicable mostly for safety, perhaps a little on EMC.

thanks!

"Colorado" Brian
720-450-4933

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