Re: [PSES] UK CE mark extension...

[Raymond Li]

Hi Matthew, Thanks for the good news!! Cheers! Scott From: Matthew Wilson | GBESent: Tuesday, 24 August 2021 05:51 PMTo: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.orgSubject: [PSES] UK CE mark extension... For those involved in UKCA Marking, note that the UK's decision to accept CE Marking on equipment put on the market in Great Britain has been extended by a year. An extra year of transition period now exists. The UK will allow CE Marked equipment into Great Britain until 1 January 2023 (Northern Ireland is a special case requiring CE marking). This is a UK decision and it is not an MRA between the UK and EU. UKCA Marking is still available for those who wish to use it, or need to use it, and for equipment which requires 3rd party certification by an Approved Body.For the link to the details, see this:https://www.gov.uk/guidance/placing-manufactured-goods-on-the-market-in-great-britainMaybe they will sort out a MRA and remove all the duplication and additional red tape having two compliance mark schemes brings! Probably too much of a political banana skin to happen though.Regards to all.Disclaimer:​ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the company, unless specifically stated.​GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under number 06210991.​Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West Sussex, BN12 4QY.-This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.htmlAttachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators:Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell  For policy questions, send mail to:Jim Bacher David Heald   -

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Re: [PSES] Crossed-out wheeled bin symbol

[Raymond Li]

John,

Thanks for your good advice on BD.

I just learnt from ITS that the crossed-out wheeled bin symbol is no longer 
required to have a bar at the bottom like the one in BD in the latest directive 
and the EN 50419 is in the process to be amended.  I did not find any revision 
in the latest WEEE.  Have you heard anything about it?

Regards,

Scott

On 27 Aug, 2014, at 4:36 am, John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk wrote:

 In message c67fe116-899f-4893-85a8-74a7658cf...@gmail.com, dated Wed, 27 
 Aug 2014, Scott Xe scott...@gmail.com writes:
 
 In WEEE Directive, it requires crossed-out wheeled bin symbol according to 
 EN 50419 : 2006 on the product.  This symbol looks very similar to the one 
 required in Battery Directive 2006/66/EC.  Unfortunately the battery 
 directive does not provide the applicable standard so it is unsure if they 
 are the same symbol or different.  If different, how do we mark this symbol 
 accurately on the battery?
 
 Use the EN 50419 symbol and in your product technical file explain that you 
 used it because the BD doesn't cite a standard nor give full graphical 
 details of the symbol.
 -- 
 OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
 Quid faciamus nisi sit?
 John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
 
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Re: [PSES] Crossed-out wheeled bin symbol

[Raymond Li]

John,

I believe the draft was the EN 50419 : 2006.  Thanks for sharing.

Regards,

Scott

On 27 Aug, 2014, at 9:51 pm, John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk wrote:

 In message 7cdcfb8f-e74e-4101-8b29-0b3388c55...@gmail.com, dated Wed, 27 
 Aug 2014, Raymond Li scott...@gmail.com writes:
 
 I just learnt from ITS that the crossed-out wheeled bin symbol is no longer 
 required to have a bar at the bottom like the one in BD in the latest 
 directive and the EN 50419 is in the process to be amended.  I did not find 
 any revision in the latest WEEE.  Have you heard anything about it?
 
 No, but Google finds this Chinese site that has the draft revision text.
 
 http://wenku.baidu.com/view/164052c689eb172ded63b769
 
 The bar appears to be still there.
 -- 
 OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
 Quid faciamus nisi sit?
 John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
 
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e-mark for automotive equipment

[Raymond . Li]

I am interested in answers to the following:-

1.  Is e-mark applied to components or units?

For example, a hand phone, a handsfree kit and cigarette adapter.  They 
might be sold in a unit of product or separately.  Obviously, the hand 
phone is not only designed to work in car and it carries normal CE mark. 
The handsfree kit and cigarette adapter are designed to work in car.  They 
have to be e-marked.  Is the whole set: hand phone, handsfree kit and 
cigarette adapter, required to be subject to e-mark test?

2.  Where is the e-mark affixed?

Hand phone, handsfree kit or cigarette adapter, or all of them.

3.  Individual approval

In practical, these three components are designed and/or manufactured by 
different suppliers.  The component suppliers may have got the e-mark on 
its components.  Is it allowed to have different e-marks on the components 
of a unit of product?

Your advice is appreciated.

Raymond Li
Omni Source Asia Ltd.

Cadmium directive 91/338/EEC

[Raymond . Li]

Can someone advise me if this is a mandatory requirement for all
consumer products including electrical and electronic products in all
members of EEC.  Is it applied to any part of finished products?  If
so, how to carry out the test on a product properly?  Most of
electronic products may contain over hundred parts.  Any experience
can be shared!

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li
Technical Manager
Omni Source Asia Ltd.



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Recycle mark

[Raymond . Li]

Can someone tell me where I can find the quality recycle mark.

Thanks,

Raymond Li



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RE: Manufacturing Hipot Testing

[Raymond . Li]

I just found out the notes about the hipot testing.  The standard is IEC
60598-1 Page 343 Annex Q Conformity testing during manufacture.   Under
General para., The tests specified in this annex should be carried out by
the manufacturer on each luminaire after production and are intended to
reveal, as far as safety is concerned, unacceptable variation in material
and manufacture.  These tests are intended not to impair the properties and
the reliability of the luminaire, and they vary from certain type tests in
the standard by the lower voltages utilised. is stated.  For hipot test,
it suggests a minimum voltage of 1.5 kV a.c. for a minimum of 1 s and
maximum breakdown current 5 mA for class 1 luminaires and class 2
luminaires metal encased.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li



As far as I remember, the standard is BS EN 60598 Luminaires.  I do not
have this standard in hand now so I cannot quote the page and/or the
clause.  Does someone have this standard and take a look for me?  Thanks!!
Actually I have learnt this caution from different engineers a number of
times especially from semi-conductor technical people but that was the
first time I read it in standard.

Regards,

Raymond Li
Omni Source Asia Ltd.
-
Phone: +852-2542 5303
Email: raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk
Fax: +852-2541 9067



  
Kazimier_Gawrzyja   
  
l...@dell.com   To: 
raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk,
 emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
  
23/08/01 01:52 a cc:
  
 Subject: RE: Manufacturing 
Hipot Testing 

  




Raymond,

I'm curious...which standard were you reading?

Regards,
Kaz Gawrzyjal
Dell Computer Corp.

-Original Message-
From: Stone, Richard A (Richard) [mailto:rsto...@lucent.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 12:34 PM
To: 'raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Cc: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Manufacturing Hipot Testing



I don't see where that proves anything ( 1/2 voltage testing)
using voltage applicable to product is required.
Testing for one second checks for shorts and miswiring
or spacings that may have been decreased due to workmanship.
Richard,

-Original Message-
From: raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk
[mailto:raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk]
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 10:26 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Cc: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: Manufacturing Hipot Testing




Dear All,

I have read one BSEN standard suggesting not to perform hipot testing at
the test voltage, 3kV, 1.25kV or 3.75kV in mass production.  The reason is
that it might introduce potential failure in future operation by the
customer not immediate failure.  It also suggests if hipot testing is done
on production line, lower testing voltage, i.e., 1/2 of test voltage should
be applied.  I would like to have comments on this concern while doing
hipot test on production line or other modern way to replace the hipot test
on production line.

Thanks and regards,
..
Raymond Li
Omni Source Asia Ltd.
-
Phone: +852-2542 5303
Email: raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk
Fax: +852-2541 9067




John Woodgate

j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To:
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Sent by:   cc:

owner-emc-pstc@majordomSubject: Re:
Manufacturing Hipot Testing
o.ieee.org





22/08/01 01:39 a

Please respond to John

Woodgate










I read in !emc-pstc that Doug McKean dmck...@corp.auspex.com wrote (in
001001c12a54$2b315f80$3e3e3...@corp.auspex.com) about 'Manufacturing
Hipot Testing', on Tue, 21 Aug 2001:

IMHO, if I were to address the initial question regarding
manufactoring
testing of a product bound for Europe - unless there were some severe
national deviation differences from a similar type of US domestic
approval
of the product, I'd continue along with hi-pot testing just as if the
product
were bound for a domestic (US) market.


Well, you have come to the right conclusion but for two wrong reasons.

In Europe, there are no longer any 'national approvals' like the old
SEMKO etc. There is ONLY the Low Voltage

Re: Manufacturing Hipot Testing

[Raymond . Li]

Dear All,

I have read one BSEN standard suggesting not to perform hipot testing at
the test voltage, 3kV, 1.25kV or 3.75kV in mass production.  The reason is
that it might introduce potential failure in future operation by the
customer not immediate failure.  It also suggests if hipot testing is done
on production line, lower testing voltage, i.e., 1/2 of test voltage should
be applied.  I would like to have comments on this concern while doing
hipot test on production line or other modern way to replace the hipot test
on production line.

Thanks and regards,
..
Raymond Li
Omni Source Asia Ltd.
-
Phone: +852-2542 5303
Email: raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk
Fax: +852-2541 9067




John Woodgate   

j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: 
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org  
Sent by:   cc:  

owner-emc-pstc@majordomSubject: Re: 
Manufacturing Hipot Testing 
o.ieee.org  





22/08/01 01:39 a

Please respond to John  

Woodgate










I read in !emc-pstc that Doug McKean dmck...@corp.auspex.com wrote (in
001001c12a54$2b315f80$3e3e3...@corp.auspex.com) about 'Manufacturing
Hipot Testing', on Tue, 21 Aug 2001:

IMHO, if I were to address the initial question regarding
manufactoring
testing of a product bound for Europe - unless there were some severe
national deviation differences from a similar type of US domestic
approval
of the product, I'd continue along with hi-pot testing just as if the
product
were bound for a domestic (US) market.


Well, you have come to the right conclusion but for two wrong reasons.

In Europe, there are no longer any 'national approvals' like the old
SEMKO etc. There is ONLY the Low Voltage Directive, and the European
Standards (ENs) that have been 'notified' in the Official Journal as
providing evidence of compliance.

However, most if not all of these ENs have *mandatory requirements* for
100% production-line testing (confusingly called 'routine testing'),
including a 'hi-pot' test.

It is entirely the responsibility of the manufacturer to ensure that the
Declaration of Conformity for the product is true, and to do that he
MAY, but does not have to, employ a test-house to produce a report and
maybe an expensive certificate and grant permission, in return for more
money, to apply a glamorous sticker to the product.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Eat mink and be dreary!

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All

Re: LVD directive in Scandinavia

[Raymond . Li]

Dear Patrick,

Thanks for your response.  According to your explanation, no matter
compliant EN 60065 or IEC 60065 standard just cover the neutral part of
required standard and all require additional country deviation tests.

Do the Scandinavian countries traditionally accept VDE standard?  If so,
would it be easier to build the product to a single standard rather than
multiple standards.  The testing would be simpler as well.  Is it a real
case in the world?

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li
Omni Source Asia Ltd.






Patrick Wong  
patrick_wong@To:   
hkstc.comraymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk 
  , emc-p...@ieee.org
12/05/01 09:20cc:   
a Subject: Re: LVD directive in 
  Scandinavia   





Dear Raymond,

As EU countries will employ Euro-Norm standards for LVD testing, the
Scandinavia as well as other EU's uses EN with national deviations for
testing. This apply to the Scandinavia FIMKO, SEMKO, NEMKO as well as
DEMKO.
Other national standards such as DIN and BSEN are all based on EN and
converted into their national languages.

Regards

Patrick Wong

Senior Manger,
Electrical and EMC Dept.
The Hong Kong Standards and Testing Centre
- Original Message -
From: raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 3:08 PM
Subject: LVD directive in Scandinavia



 Understand Scandinavia is part of EU or EFTA and LVD has to be applied to
 electronics and electrical products.  Scandinavia includes a number of
 countries.  Do they commonly accept one standard, I learnt German
standard,
 or different country standards?

 We have following ideas to approve the products to LVD and would like to
 have some input from experienced personnel.

 Take audio  video products as an example:-

 1.   On top of compliant report of BS EN60065, get the additional test
 according to countries deviations.

 2.   Get compliant report of EN60065 only.

 3.   Get CB IEC 60065 report only.

 Thanks and regards,

 Raymond Li
 Omni Source Asia Ltd.


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LVD directive in Scandinavia

[Raymond . Li]

Understand Scandinavia is part of EU or EFTA and LVD has to be applied to
electronics and electrical products.  Scandinavia includes a number of
countries.  Do they commonly accept one standard, I learnt German standard,
or different country standards?

We have following ideas to approve the products to LVD and would like to
have some input from experienced personnel.

Take audio  video products as an example:-

1.   On top of compliant report of BS EN60065, get the additional test
according to countries deviations.

2.   Get compliant report of EN60065 only.

3.   Get CB IEC 60065 report only.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li
Omni Source Asia Ltd.


**
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Please note that neither my employer nor I accept any responsibility for
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Testing - Pls ignore

[Raymond . Li]

Testing




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Accreditation exception

[Raymond Li]

I have a query about acceptance of test report from accredited laboratories.
Some laboratories have been accredited to test , say EN60335, with
exclusions of some clauses or sub-clauses.

In order to provide a test report showing that the unit complied with
EN60335, the laboratories request relevant test reports or certificates from
the customers.  Is it the responsibility of the laboratory to verify the
submitted certificates/reports to meet the requirement?  Is it allowed in
the accreditation scheme, say UKAS, A2LA?  You input is appreciated.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li
Omni Source Asia Ltd.


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Participant bodies of CB scheme

[Raymond Li]

Can anyone tell me where I can find a list of participant
bodies/laboratories of CB scheme.

Thanks,

Raymond Li
Omni Source Asia Ltd


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Re: Homologations: Hong Kong / China Central Office Telecom Equipment

[Raymond . Li]

Jeffrey,

Suggest to visit below site for your required information.

http://www.ofta.gov.hk/index_eng.html

Regards,

Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.







Collins, Jeffrey jcoll...@ciena.com on 14/09/2000 08:44:44 p

Please respond to Collins, Jeffrey jcoll...@ciena.com

To:   emc-p...@ieee.org
cc:(bcc: Raymond Li/DixonsNotes)

Subject:  Homologations: Hong Kong / China Central Office Telecom Equipment




Group,

Any experiences with getting Central Office Telecom equipment (ITE) into
Hong Kong and China?

CB Scheme to IEC 60950 should address product safety.  What about EMC? Has
the Great Wall Mark (China's version of CE Mark) been implemented?

What about environmental management issues Who would be the equivalent
to the RBOC's in Hong Kong and China???


Thanks in advance,

Jeffrey Collins
MTS, Principal Compliance Engineer
Ciena Core Switching Division
jcoll...@ciena.com
www.ciena.com


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RE: Test voltage for products to the U.K.

[Raymond . Li]

Chris,

Thanks for your comments.

Generally, the product is marked 230Vac in order to comply with harmonised
standard but for the products to the U.K., they should be tested at 207Vac (-10%
of 230Vac) and 254.4Vac (+6% of 240Vac).  Is it a normal practise or agreed
procedure used in all accredited laboratories in the U.K. and/or elsewhere in
the world?

Best regards,

Raymond

=





James, Chris c...@dolby.co.uk on 01/08/2000 09:44:20 p

To:   Raymond Li/DixonsNotes@DixonsNotes, emc-p...@ieee.org
cc:

Subject:  RE: Test voltage for products to the U.K.



Spec on mains is 230 +/- 6% so as 240 falls within that range, then that is
where the reference regard the UK staying at 240Vac came from.

We used to see voltages several % above  240Vac in the past. In my
particular area they used to stay spot on 240V most of the time. I note
however that in the last 6 months the local voltage has dropped to 235Vac,
although the generating board won't admit to having consciously made this
change!

We here continue to design for 264Vac max.

Chris

-Original Message-
From: raymond...@dixonsasia.com.hk [mailto:raymond...@dixonsasia.com.hk]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 10:53 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Test voltage for products to the U.K.





A few years ago, BEAMA or other similar body has issued a memo to public
laboratories about testing voltage for products selling in the U.K.  The
memo
says the U.K. mains is still 240Vac although the rated voltage is agreed to
be
230Vac and the products have to be taken care the safety at 240Vac.  Can
anyone
tell me where I can find a copy of this memo and if there is any updated
version
to replace this one.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.



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Test voltage for products to the U.K.

[Raymond . Li]

A few years ago, BEAMA or other similar body has issued a memo to public
laboratories about testing voltage for products selling in the U.K.  The memo
says the U.K. mains is still 240Vac although the rated voltage is agreed to be
230Vac and the products have to be taken care the safety at 240Vac.  Can anyone
tell me where I can find a copy of this memo and if there is any updated version
to replace this one.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.



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VDE plugs for all EU participating countries

[Raymond . Li]

Dear All,

I have heard that all EU participating countries have accepted VDE plugs
(Europlug for 2.5A and Schuko plug for 15A) except the U.K. although each
country may have its own style of plug.  Anyone know if it is the case?

Thanks,

Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.



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RE: Cordset for EEC countries

[Raymond . Li]

Dear Nick and John,

Thanks for your useful information about the adapter.  I have heard a particular
name for this adapter but now forget it.  Do you have any idea?

Best regards,

Raymond

==





John Allen john.al...@rdel.co.uk on 05/07/2000 04:48:22 p

Please respond to John Allen john.al...@rdel.co.uk

To:   Raymond Li/DixonsNotes@DixonsNotes, 'Nick Williams'
  nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk
cc:   emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org

Subject:  RE: Cordset for EEC countries




Hi folks

As a point of interest:

The EN for the 2-pin flat profile european plug is EN 50075: 1991 
Specification for flat non-rewirable two-pole plugs, 2.5A 250V, with cord,
for the connection of class II equipment for household and similar
purposes - (Applies to plugs without earthing contacts. For indoor use as
they have no special protection against ingress of water)
(Quoted from 1999 BSI Catalogue).

Presumably, being a 2.5A plug, the cable core size is no larger than 0.75
sq mm, and the fuse in the adaptor thus should be no larger than 6A (being
the general rating for this size of cord) but could be up to 16A since the
plug is designed to be used on Continental European distribution systems
where local protection is generally a 16A fuse or circuit breaker.

However for UK use,  the standard BS 1362 fuse ratings are 3A  13A
(although a range of other ratings does exist, but only 5A and 10A are in
common circulation for replacement purposes). I would think that the 3A is
the most appropriate in most instances for UK use.

The above is the plug for which the adaptors to fit British sockets are
designed, but the phrase Europlug has informally been applied to a wide
variety of plugs, and some of these are the old CEE 7 dual earthing contact
types  (can't remember the CEE 7 Standard Sheet numbers as it is so long
ago that I looked at the standard!) which have an essentially round
cross-section. The new adaptors cannot accomodate the plugs with earthing
contacts!

Regards

John Allen
--
From: Nick Williams[SMTP:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk]
Sent: 04 July 2000 21:58
To:  raymond...@dixonsasia.com.hk
Cc:  emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject:  Re: Cordset for EEC countries


At 15:09 +0800 4/7/2000, raymond...@dixonsasia.com.hk wrote:
In order to sell a product to all EEC countries, more and more companies
are
using a UK 13A plug adapter which takes a Europlug cordset in their
products.
The plug adapter is approved by BSI or ASTA, fitted with a BS1362 3A fuse
and
marked to use with CEE 7/16 EuropIug.  I have a couple of queries and
seeking
advice from this group.

1.   Is there any particular requirement/standard for individual or
complete
component?

If by this you mean is there a standard for the adapter, the answer
is yes, it is BS 5733:1995
Specification for general requirements for electrical accessories. In
the UK the appropriate standard for the cable would be BS 6500:1994
Specification for insulated flexible cords and cables (which is the
UK implementation of a number of CENELEC harmonisation documents).
I'm not familiar enough with the non-UK plug standards to give you
chapter and verse on this - IEC 83 defines the dimensions, but it is
not a full test specification.

Incidentally, I assume you are already aware that the plug adapter
_must_ be approved? BSI and ASTA are not the only people who can do
this - the DTI say any body Notified under the LVD can do it. (I'm
not sure I agree with them, but that, in the context of this
discussion, would be a digression.)


2.   What is definition of Europlug cordset?  I have some samples which
are in
fact of VDE approved cordset using in Germany.  The two round pin plug,
the
mains cord and the figure 8 plug are all approved by VDE at least.  Some
other
national agency marks are also marked on either plugs and cord.  Is
it qualified
to meet Europlug cordset?

As I mentioned earlier this week in a reply to another message on
this forum, domestic plugs are outside the scope of the LVD so EU
countries (and others, of course) are free to set down additional
national requirements as they see fit.  In practice I've never had
trouble with a VDE marked cord set in any EU country. (This comment
obviously only applies to two core cord sets- there are numerous
three pin plug types.)


3.   Does the figure 8 plug must have approval of BS 4491?  Some
samples have BS
4491 mark on the plug but most of them do not have.  However, all have VDE
approval mark on the plug.

I doubt you will see any problems using a VDE cord set for this
purpose in the UK so long as the cable has the HAR mark. I would
expect to see this on any cable with a VDE approval.

Despite first appearances, cord-set selection is definitely a
non-trivial matter. I assume that you're dealing with the UK retail
market, in which case I'm very familiar with the sort of problems you
face. To avoid clutter on EMC-PSTC, drop me a line direct if you need
more help

Cordset for EEC countries

[Raymond . Li]

In order to sell a product to all EEC countries, more and more companies are
using a UK 13A plug adapter which takes a Europlug cordset in their products.
The plug adapter is approved by BSI or ASTA, fitted with a BS1362 3A fuse and
marked to use with CEE 7/16 EuropIug.  I have a couple of queries and seeking
advice from this group.

1.   Is there any particular requirement/standard for individual or complete
component?

2.   What is definition of Europlug cordset?  I have some samples which are in
fact of VDE approved cordset using in Germany.  The two round pin plug, the
mains cord and the figure 8 plug are all approved by VDE at least.  Some other
national agency marks are also marked on either plugs and cord.  Is it qualified
to meet Europlug cordset?

3.   Does the figure 8 plug must have approval of BS 4491?  Some samples have BS
4491 mark on the plug but most of them do not have.  However, all have VDE
approval mark on the plug.

Thanks,

Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.



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Telephone equipment approval

[Raymond . Li]

I have heard that BABT approval for telephone equipment is no longer required in
the U.K. and is replaced by a new directive for all EEC countries.  Can anyone
give me the pointer where I can get the detail of the new directive and relevant
requirements and standards.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.



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APLAC

[Raymond . Li]

I recently heard that China National Accreditation of Laboratories (CNACL)
and Asia Pacific Laboratory Accreditation Cooperation (APLAC) signed MRA
end of last year.  It said UK is a member of APLAC and UK is member of EEC.
Thus the certificates issued by the member of CNACL are recognised by Asia
countries, UK and EEC countries.  Can anyone tell me where I can locate the
official announcement about above recognition.

Thanks,

Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.
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Re: Y3K

[Raymond . Li]

Robert,

Could you please tell us what the contents of Y3k.doc as it cannot be
opened by Word 97.

Thanks,

Raymond Li







Robert Johnson robe...@ma.ultranet.com on 05/01/2000 06:07:08 a

Please respond to Robert Johnson robe...@ma.ultranet.com

To:   IEEE emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
cc:(bcc: Raymond Li/DixonsNotes)

Subject:  Y3K




Y3K.doc
Description: Lotus Manuscript 1.0

Non flammable material

[Raymond . Li]

Can anyone tell me where I can find the corresponding UL non flammable
material of FH3-40 required in EN60065 (referenced to IEC60384-1).  The
material suppliers in the Far East are more familiar with UL materials than
European materials.

Thanks,

Raymond Li



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RE: internet information

[Raymond . Li]

Hi Laura,

You can fit a 3 amp fuse in the fuse safely unless you have other technical
specification on your product, i.e., high inrush current required.  With
0.75 sq mm cord given, the maximum permissible current is 6A but the
harmonised standard allows 10A in line with other European countries.  I
also take a note from BEAB saying that 13A fuse is allowed with 0.75 sq mm
cord on their approved products.  However, no specific explanation was
given.  Hope above information is useful to you.

Raymond Li

=





Laura Leyba-Newton lnew...@hach.com on 18/11/99 03:54:31 a

Please respond to Laura Leyba-Newton lnew...@hach.com

To:   'Colgan, Chris' chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com, Laura
  Leyba-Newton lnew...@hach.com, 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
  emc-p...@ieee.org
cc:(bcc: Raymond Li/DixonsNotes)

Subject:  RE: internet information





We are trying to determine the proper fusing for the UK power cord.  The
products we will be using the cord set on will never exceed 3amps in normal
operating conditions.
For the power cord set the Manufacturer has provided us with the following
information:

BSI/ASTA Approved
British Male to International Female,
HO3VVF3G0.75
Unshielded, Length: 8', Color: Black.

The Manufacturer has asked us to specify a fuse of either 5A or 10A,  with
the information above how can we determine on whether a 5A or a 10A fuse
should be used being that the gauge was not listed?
Thanks a lot for the previous help and also thanks in advance for any help
you can give me,
-Laura

  -Original Message-
  From: Colgan, Chris
[mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 2:42 AM
  To:  'Laura Leyba-Newton'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
  Subject:  RE: internet information

  Laura

  Re. the power cord.

  SI No.1768 requires UK consumer products to be fitted with a
plug conforming
  to BS1363.  Both BS1363 and SI 1768 require the plug to be
fused.

  The fuse value is determined by the cross sectional area of
the power cord
  conductors.

  I doubt that you could find an unfused UK power cord set
anyway.

  Hope this helps

  Chris Colgan
  EMC  Safety
  TAG McLaren Audio Ltd

  mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com


   -Original Message-
   From:   Laura Leyba-Newton [SMTP:lnew...@hach.com]
   Sent:   16 November 1999 18:36
   To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
   Subject: internet information
  
  
   Could someone please tell me where previous EMC and safety
discussions are
   posted on the internet.
   Also I am interested to know if a detachable UK power Cord
is required to
   be
   fused. Products using this line cord have integral fuses
in both AC lines.
   You help would be greatly appreciated.
   -Laura
  
  
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  =
  Authorised on 11/17/99 at 09:42:16; code 37f48bf3F2F6C214.
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  TAG McLaren Audio Ltd, The Summit, 11 Latham Road
  Huntingdon, Cambs, PE18 6ZU
  Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600)
  Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159)

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Re: internet information

[Raymond . Li]

Hi Nick,

Many thanks for your time and explaination that gives me a new view of UK
fused plug.

Best regards,

Raymond Li

=





Nick Rouse 100626.3...@compuserve.com on 18/11/99 06:13:48 a

To:   Raymond Li/DixonsNotes
cc:

Subject:  Re: internet information





- Original Message -
From: raymond...@dixonsasia.com.hk
To: John Allen john.al...@rdel.co.uk
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 3:20 PM
Subject: RE: internet information






 John,

 I am very insterested in your explaination on fused plug requirement
 between the ring main supply system and branch or spur systems.  Could
you
 please shed more light on to me about the fused plug requirement on the
 ring main supply and a simply way to identify the said main supplies.

Raymond

Practically all UK domestic premises and the vast bulk of UK low power
single
phase outlets in commercial and light industrial premises use plugs and
sockets to
BS1363. They is a legal requirement for all new installations in domestic
premises.
If you have not come across them, they are jumbo sized square 3 pin plugs
rated at a
modest 13A. An essential part of the specification and design of this plug
is that
it contains a fuse to BS1362. As far as I am aware this design of fuse is
not used
anywhere else.

The normal way to wire up domestic premises in the UK is to use a ring main
system.
Typically all the socket outlets on each floor are connected to a ring of
two
conductor plus earth cable that runs from the fuse box around the rooms on
that floor
and back to the fuse box.

Heavy current devices such as cookers and water heaters are wired
separately
as is fixed lighting.

Each ring main is protected at the fuse box by a fuse or circuit breaker
that is rated
for the wiring of the ring main, typically 30A or 50A.

A large proportion of electrical fires in domestic premises are caused by
damage
to the power cord between the wall socket and the appliance. If the
insulation
of low current rated power cords is damaged it is quite possible to have a
partial
short circuit in the cable that allows sufficient current to flow through
the cable
to cause serious overheating without taking out the high rated fuse
protecting the
ring main. Since this current is not flowing in the appliance, the fuses
there are of
no help.

In industrial wiring practice it is normal to insert a fuse or breaker
every
time a
low current rated spur is taken off a higher rated feed at the point it is
spurred off.
In this way all cable is protected by a fuse appropriate to the rating of
the cable.
This principal is extended to domestic wiring in the UK.

Because it is not known in advance what the rating of  the power cord
plugged
into any wall socket will be, the fuse cannot be fitted in the socket. It
is
therefore
fitted in the plug. This system has the advantage that low rated cords can
be used
safely for low rated appliances.

You ask how to distinguish between ring and spur circuits. This question
does not
normally arise for suppliers of equipment to the UK market. UK law requires
that
all electrical appliances sold for domestic use are sold with a power cord
fitted
with a BS1362 plug containing a fuse appropriate to the rating of that
power
cord.
These regulation also cover thing such as office equipment and personal
computers
that might reasonably be bought for domestic use.

I hope this helps clear things up a bit for you

Regards
Nick Rouse









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jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or
roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).

RE: internet information

[Raymond . Li]

Hi John,

Sorry to ask such a big question.  In fact, this is my first time to hear
such technical explaination about why UK plug must be fused so I believe I
can ask a right person for this question.  In the past, I got a common
answer from UK people saying that the UK mains plug is the most safe plug
in the world as nearly no other plugs are equipped with fuse, i.e., US
plug, VDE plug.  Now I know there is other reason behind.  Anyway, I deeply
appreciate you have given a number of sources for my reference/study.

Best regards,

Raymond Li







John Allen john.al...@rdel.co.uk on 18/11/99 12:41:40 a

To:   Raymond Li/DixonsNotes
cc:   emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org

Subject:  RE: internet information




Raymond

I think you have asked a very big question - and unfortunately I do not
have time to go into it!

However, I also think that it has been discussed before in EMC-PSTC, and so
I suggest that you ask Ed Price or Rich Nute if they can identify the
previous threads for you to examine on the RCIC website.

Additionally, I would recommend that you try the Interpower Components
website (www.interpower.com) and request a copy of their Export Designers
Reference and Catalogue 9.

Page 16 thereof gives a brief resume of the need for fusing in UK BS1363
plugs.

You could also review BS 7671Requirements for Electrical Installations -
otherwise known as the IEE Wiring Regulations (which I believe you may
use in Hong Kong) and its associated Guidebooks.

Regards

John Allen

--
From: raymond...@dixonsasia.com.hk[SMTP:raymond...@dixonsasia.com.hk]
Sent: 17 November 1999 15:20
To:  John Allen
Cc:  emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject:  RE: internet information



John,

I am very insterested in your explaination on fused plug requirement
between the ring main supply system and branch or spur systems.  Could you
please shed more light on to me about the fused plug requirement on the
ring main supply and a simply way to identify the said main supplies.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li

===





John Allen john.al...@rdel.co.uk on 17/11/99 04:41:13 pm

Please respond to John Allen john.al...@rdel.co.uk

To:   'emc-p...@ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org, 'Laura Leyba-Newton'
  lnew...@hach.com
cc:(bcc: Raymond Li/DixonsNotes)

Subject:  RE: internet information





Laura

All UK standard power cords require to be fused - regardless of the fusing
in appliance to which they are connected - because we use a totally
different building ring main supply system to most other countries which
use branch or spur systems !

The main reason is that the power cord cross-sectional  (0.75 - to 1.5 sq
mm) area is much less than that of the ring main (2.5 to 4 sq mm) , and
fuses have to be inserted wherever such a change occurs.

Fusing in the appliance is to protect the appliance - not the power cord.

Regards

John Allen
Racal
UK

PS: the previous  threads are on the RCIC.com website.

--
From: Laura Leyba-Newton[SMTP:lnew...@hach.com]
Sent: 16 November 1999 18:36
To:  'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Subject:  internet information


Could someone please tell me where previous EMC and safety discussions are
posted on the internet.
Also I am interested to know if a detachable UK power Cord is required to
be
fused. Products using this line cord have integral fuses in both AC lines.
You help would be greatly appreciated.
-Laura


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RE: internet information

[Raymond . Li]

John,

I am very insterested in your explaination on fused plug requirement
between the ring main supply system and branch or spur systems.  Could you
please shed more light on to me about the fused plug requirement on the
ring main supply and a simply way to identify the said main supplies.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li

===





John Allen john.al...@rdel.co.uk on 17/11/99 04:41:13 pm

Please respond to John Allen john.al...@rdel.co.uk

To:   'emc-p...@ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org, 'Laura Leyba-Newton'
  lnew...@hach.com
cc:(bcc: Raymond Li/DixonsNotes)

Subject:  RE: internet information





Laura

All UK standard power cords require to be fused - regardless of the fusing
in appliance to which they are connected - because we use a totally
different building ring main supply system to most other countries which
use branch or spur systems !

The main reason is that the power cord cross-sectional  (0.75 - to 1.5 sq
mm) area is much less than that of the ring main (2.5 to 4 sq mm) , and
fuses have to be inserted wherever such a change occurs.

Fusing in the appliance is to protect the appliance - not the power cord.

Regards

John Allen
Racal
UK

PS: the previous  threads are on the RCIC.com website.

--
From: Laura Leyba-Newton[SMTP:lnew...@hach.com]
Sent: 16 November 1999 18:36
To:  'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Subject:  internet information


Could someone please tell me where previous EMC and safety discussions are
posted on the internet.
Also I am interested to know if a detachable UK power Cord is required to
be
fused. Products using this line cord have integral fuses in both AC lines.
You help would be greatly appreciated.
-Laura


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New EEC Electronic Waste Legistration

[Raymond . Li]

Hi folks,

Can anyone advise me where I can obtain the information on the new EEC
electronic waste legistration to be implemented in 2002.

Thanks,

Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.



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New EEC Electronic Waste Legistration

[Raymond . Li]

Hi folks,

Can anyone advise me where I can obtain the information on the new EEC
electronic waste legistration to be implemented in 2002.

Thanks,

Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.



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Re: Fuse rating inside mains plug

[Raymond . Li]

Hi all responders,

Many thanks for your useful inputs on this matter.

Best regards,

Raymond



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RE: ESD-Pink Poly Bags

[Raymond . Li]

Hi folks,

What about the blue poly bags which used to contain the electronic
components?  Is it the same type of pink poly bag?

Regards,

Raymond LI

==





Lacey,Scott sla...@foxboro.com on 07/04/99 09:10:28 p

Please respond to Lacey,Scott sla...@foxboro.com

To:   John Juhasz jjuh...@fiberoptions.com
cc:   emc-p...@ieee.org (bcc: Raymond Li/DixonsNotes)

Subject:  RE: ESD-Pink Poly Bags




John,
You are correct. The pink bags have been treated to be hygroscopic, so that
they will retain some moisture. The pink color is a dye used to identify
the
treated bags.The main advantage is that the bags do not generated static
when the board is withdrawn from inside. You should be aware, however, that
several years back some vendors were selling pink bags without the
anti-static treatment. Some of these may still be around.

For actual protection the bag must act as a Faraday cage. Thus the foil or
metallized lining. The older (black) carbon loaded bags do provide some
limited protection.

Scott
 -Original Message-
 From:   John Juhasz [SMTP:jjuh...@fiberoptions.com]
 Sent:   Tuesday, April 06, 1999 11:39 AM
 To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
 Subject: ESD-Pink Poly Bags

 I am having a running debate with regards to the ESD protection
properties
 of those 'pink poly bags' for packaging electronic products.

 It is my understanding that these 'pink poly bags' DO NOT protect the
 printed circuits FROM ESD, but merely prevent the generation of static.
If
 the requirement is to protect the printed circuits from an ESD event, the
 boards should be packaged in the metallized bags.

 Can anyone clarify/confirm this??

 John A. Juhasz
 Product Qualification 
 Compliance Engr.

 Fiber Options, Inc.
 80 Orville Dr. Suite 102
 Bohemia, NY 11716 USA

 Tel: 516-567-8320 ext. 24
 Fax: 516-567-8322


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re:Frequency Spectrum Chart

[Raymond Li]

Can anyone know where the same chart for Europe is available.

Thanks,

Raymond

==


At 09:45 a.m. 30/03/98 EST, Geoffrey Skanes wrote:
In message Frequency Spectrum Chart, green...@gateway.com writes:

 Does anyone know where I might acquire a large frequency spectrum chart
 for my EMC laboratory?
 Henry E. Green
 Gateway2000 
 EMC Test Site Coordinator
   

Henry:

The NTIA has a frequency allocation chart for the US on their website at:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.html

Its a PDF file.  If you have access to a large plotter, the output is a
rather
colorful wall chart.

Regards,

Geoff Skanes
EMC Engineer
Nortel
RTP, NC

EN50082-1:1997

[Raymond Li]

I just received the information on the captioned new standard which said to
be replaced the 1992 version when it is withdrawn on 1 July 2001.  Can
anyone tell me what are the major impacts on the existing compliance of
1992 version on audio and video products and electrical appliances.

Thanks,


--
Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.
Ph: (852)2542 5303  Fax: (852)2541 9067

Study on Safety Testing against International/National Standards

[Raymond Li]

In safety testing field, many engineers learn the knowledge and skill on
the job.  Is there any formal training/study in existence in the world?

Regards,

Raymond Li

EMC test for travel iron

[Raymond Li]

Is it correct to classify a travel iron as a portable tool rather than a
household appliance according to EN 6055-2 harmonics test standard?  Any
guidance is appreciated.

Thanks and regards,


--
Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.
Ph: (852)2542 5303  Fax: (852)2541 9067

Safety test instruments

[Raymond Li]

Can anyone advise me of who are the suppliers of Robin Instruments who is
producing multifunction safety testers, i.e., continuity tester, insulation
tester, loop impedance tester.

Thanks  regards,


--
Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.
Ph: (852)2542 5303  Fax: (852)2541 9067

Approval agency symbols

[Raymond Li]

Can anyone tell me where can I obtain the latest approval agency symbols
for reference.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd

RC-unit bridging the insulation

[Raymond Li]

In most of television receivers, the mains is isolated by an isolating
transformer.  However, a RC-unit (i.e., two 5.6M ohm resistors in
series and connected parallel with a 0.022uF capacitor) is connected
between accessible parts and mains.  What is the primary function of
this RC-unit?

According to sub-clause 10.3 Insulation resistance and dielectric
strength of EN 60065, the tests can be done with disconnection of the
RC-unit.  In type test, the test should not impose any problem but in
production, the RC-unit cannot be practically disconnected on finished
products before the tests take place.  Insulation resistance and
dielectric strength tests are ones recommended by most approval
agencies such as BEAB, UL, CSA, etc.  In general practice, the RC-unit
is not disconnected and select a higher trip current, i.e. 5 or 10 mA
on the withstanding voltage tester.  Why does the standard require the
disconnection of RC-unit for the tests?  Is there any deviation from
the spirit of the standard in the production tests?

In sub-clause 9.1.1 General - Accessible parts shall not be live of
EN 60065, should the RC-unit be disconnected on the leakage current
measurement?  What is the impact on the true leakage current of the
insulation with the RC-unit?

Appreciating any guidance.

Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.

RC-unit bridging the insulation

[Raymond Li]

In most of television receivers, the mains is isolated by an isolating
transformer.  However, a RC-unit (i.e., two 5.6M ohm resistors in
series and connected parallel with a 0.022uF capacitor) is connected
between accessible parts and mains.  What is the primary function of
this RC-unit?

According to sub-clause 10.3 Insulation resistance and dielectric
strength of EN 60065, the tests can be done with disconnection of the
RC-unit.  In type test, the test should not impose any problem but in
production, the RC-unit cannot be practically disconnected on finished
products before the tests take place.  Insulation resistance and
dielectric strength tests are ones recommended by most approval
agencies such as BEAB, UL, CSA, etc.  In general practice, the RC-unit
is not disconnected and select a higher trip current, i.e. 5 or 10 mA
on the withstanding voltage tester.  Why does the standard require the
disconnection of RC-unit for the tests?  Is there any deviation from
the spirit of the standard in the production tests?

In sub-clause 9.1.1 General - Accessible parts shall not be live of
EN 60065, should the RC-unit be disconnected on the leakage current
measurement?  What is the impact on the true leakage current of the
insulation with the RC-unit?

Appreciating any guidance.

Raymond Li
Dixons Asia Ltd.

Accreditation scheme of calibration laboratories in China

[Raymond Li]

Can anyone advise the accreditation scheme of calibration laboratories in
China and where can we find the accreditation directory and scope of
accredited laboratories.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li
Dixons Stores Group

Accreditation scheme of calibration laboratories in China

[Raymond Li]

Can anyone advise the accreditation scheme of calibration laboratories in
China and where can we find the accreditation directory and scope of
accredited laboratories.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li
Dixons Stores Group

Immunity test on standalone CD players

[Raymond Li]

According to EMC Directive 89/336/EEC, a mains-operated standalone
multi-disc CD player must comply with immunity test EN55020.  It says that
this product falls into exemption scope - no connection facility for an
external antenna and no passive requirements according to EN55020.

The exemption reasons sound strange but appear to be a general practice in
the field.  May I invite your comments/guidances on this interpretation of
the standard.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li
Dixons Stores Group

Latest EN Standards

[Raymond Li]

Can anyone advise me the latest EMC EN standards for the following
categories in order to comply with Council Directive 89/336/EEC.

1.  Sound  television broadcast receivers and associated equipment, i.e.,
radios, televisions, audio/video combination units.

2.  Household electrical appliances, i.e., hairdryers, fans, fan heaters.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond Li
Dixons Stores Group

EN Standard Website

[Raymond Li]

Can anyone tell me the website address of EN standards.

Thanks and regards,


Raymons Li
Dixons Stores Group

EN Standard Website

[Raymond Li]

Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 12:27:30 +0800
To: EMC  Safety Forum
From: Raymond Li rldxa...@hk.super.net
Subject: EN Standard Website

Can anyone tell me the website address of EN standards.

Thanks and regards,


Raymons Li
Dixons Stores Group

UK Inspection for EMC Non-Compliance

[Raymond Li]

In recent articles of German inspections for EMC Non-compliance.  Does
anyone know if the same exists in the U.K. and where is available if yes.

---
Raymond Li
Dixons Ltd

MIL-STD-285

[Raymond Li]

Can anyone tell me where to obtain MIL-STD-285 standard; Method of
attenuation measurements for enclosures, electromagnetic shielding,
for electronic test purposes or equivalent.

Thanks in advance,

Raymond Li

IEC65/EN 60065

[Raymond Li]

Under the subclause 14.6.1 Switches, an apparatus, which under normal
operating condition has power consumption exceeding 15W and/or employs
a peak voltage exceeding 4 kV, shall be provided with a manually
operated mechanical switch.  Does anyone know the background of this
requirement since it can be exempted if it is a clockradio, VCR, etc.
and shed some light on to me

Thanks and regards,

Raymod Li

Classification of winding insulation

[Raymond Li]

I have read through two international standards relative to the
captioned subject.  There are some differences even though they both
are
called the same classes.

EN 60 355-1 IEC 85

Class   Temp rise   Actual temp
A   75 degC 105 degC
E   90 degC 120 degC
B   95 degC 130 degC
F   115 degC155 degC
H   140 degC180 degC

Since the readily available enamelled copper wires are largely quoted
American specifications as below, I am seeking some advice how to tie
the American approved/classified wires into European requirements.

UL 506
Class   Temp rise
105 70 degC
130 95 degC
155 115 degC
180 135 degC
200 150 degC
220 165 degC

Appreciating any expert advice.

Thanks and regards,

Raymond