Re: [PSES] question about overheated/swollen UPS batteries

[Scott B. Lacey]

Your problem got me curious so I did a little quick research. According 
to Schneider Electric "Storing a UPS with the battery connected can cause 
permanent battery damage within a few days to a week. A UPS should be 
stored after complete battery recharging with the battery disconnected."

http://www.schneider-electric.us/sites/us/en/support/faq/faq_main.page?pag
e=content&country=US&lang=en&id=FA157446&redirect=true

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Re: [PSES] question about overheated/swollen UPS batteries

[Scott B. Lacey]

I'm not sure what is going on with your UPS units but I think the best 
solution to your particular problem would be to insert a switch in series 
with the sounder. Then you could leave the unit on without fear of 
bothering the people upstairs. 

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Re: [PSES] Melting BNC connectors

[Scott B. Lacey]

The better quality bnc connectors are usually nickel-plated brass. If you 
scrape a small area the brass color will show under bright light. Also, 
many of the cheaper connectors use dielectric material that will soften 
during soldering.

Scott B. Lacey

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Off Topic - switch ratings

[Scott B. Lacey]

This is a bit off topic, but I'm hoping list 
members may be able to help.

I'm trying to find data on a Cutler-Hammer 
ST42A toggle switch. I'm looking for voltage 
and current ratings. I think it is an aircraft 
switch.

A Google search has not turned up any 
technical data.

Thanks in advance.

Scott B. Lacey

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RE: IEC60225-5 surge test impedance?

[Scott B. Lacey]

Or, you could "make" a resistor by rubbing a 
pencil on a piece of paper as was done in an 
episode of the old Macgyver TV series :)

Scott B. Lacey

On 8 Oct 2008 at 12:35, Robert Richards 
wrote:

> 
> This reminds me of years ago when I did board level repair. Occasionally we 
> needed a resistor of 
> some very specific value (bridge circuit) so we would take a carbon film 
> resistor of a slightly lower 
> value and shave some of the material off to get the exactvalue. A coat of 
> epoxy finished the job.
> 
> Bob Richards, NCT
> 
> 
> don_borow...@selinc.com wrote:
> Well, there is laser trimming, and there is laser trimming.
> 
> For commodity resistors with leads and cylindrical bodies, a spiral cut is
> fairly common. By varying the pitch of the spiral and number of turns, a
> large number of values can be had from a single base part. This also
> retains most of the resistive material so that usable area for heat
> dissipation is not reduced a lot. The disadvantage is that the voltage 
> from
> turn to turn can be high enough (especially for impulsive waveforms) that
> there can be arc over between the turns.
> 
> The other way of trimming is to take straight cuts along the axis of the
> resistor. The voltage gradient along the resistor is not affected. 
> However,
> the base part needs to be close to the final value so that large amounts 
> of
> resistive material are not removed, causing the heat dissipation to
> concentrate over a small area. This is more expensive to do, but yields a
> more robust component, appropriate for high voltage use.
> 
> Donald Borowski
> Schweitzer Engineering Labs
> Pullman, WA, USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "John McAuley" 
> .ie> To 
> Sent by: "'Joe Randolph'" 
> emc-p...@ieee.org , "'Ralph 
> McDiarmid'" 
> , 
> 10/08/2008 03:55 
> AM cc 
> 
> Subject 
> Please respond to RE: IEC60225-5 surge test 
> .ie> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High voltage resistors are becoming more readily available with thick film
> technology.
> 
> See
> 
> http://radionics.rs-
> 
> online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=2509032292
> 
> A combination of these could meet the surge current requirement.
> 
> You need to be careful with some of these though, they use laser trimming
> which results in affine line across the resistor that causes arcing. I
> understand that the one listed above does not use laser trimming.
> 
> BR
> 
> John McAuley
> www.cei.ie
> john.mcau...@cei.ie
> *
> DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential
> and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying
> or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other
> person is not authorised. If you are not the intended recipient please
> notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator
> 
> 
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Joe
> Randolph
> Sent: 08 October 2008 02:02
> To: Ralph McDiarmid; emc-p...@ieee.org
> Subject: RE: IEC60225-5 surge test impedance?
> 
> On 10/7/2008, Ralph McDiarmid wrote:
> 
> 
> Is it possible to insert a resistor between surge generator and CDN to
> provide the correct impedance? Here is one source of high-voltage,
> power resistors.
> 
> http://www.caddock.com/Online_catalog/high_voltage/high_voltage.html
> 
> 
> Hi Ralph:
> 
> It is common practice to insert an external resistor in series with the
> output of a surge generator to reduce the short-circuit current. In fact,
> some standards call out different values of external resistance in their
> tests. The resistor will influence the short-circuit current waveform, so
> you may need to pay attention to that.
> 
> You must be very careful about the power rating and construction of any
> resistors you add. The resistors must be able to handle the surge power,
> and they must be non-inductive (not wire wound). Interestingly, one of the
> best types of construction for this application is the old
> carbon-composition type, but these are getting hard to find.
> 
> As long as the resistor construction you use is non-indu

[SPAM] Re: Teleproducts

[Scott B. Lacey]

Hi Daniel,

If no one on the list can supply the info try 
checking the incorporation data from the state 
or country listed on the label. For example; if 
Teleproducts were located in New Jersey at 
the time of manufacture the NJ Secretary of 
State records should show if they are out of 
business or have been bought by another 
company.

Scott B. Lacey

On 22 Aug 2008 at 14:41, Daniel Roman 
wrote:

> 
> Happy Friday everyone,
> 
> I am attempting to locate a company called Teleproducts (or Tele Products) 
> that makes 
> (made) telecom test equipment. I have one of their units (an ATS 1000 
> Approval Test 
> System) that is in need of repair.It is an analog telecom tester. Search 
> engines have not 
> helped me locate them. If anyone knows their whereabouts I´d appreciate a 
> contact.
> 
> This is one piece of equipment that makes up a Genesys PSTN21 system and 
> Genesys has 
> apparently gone belly up in the UK. I found references to them on the web 
> site of a 
> company in Singapore but tech support pleas for help to that company have 
> gone 
> unanswered.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dan Roman, N.C.E.
> Regulatory Engineer
> Dialogic, Inc.
> 1515 State Rt. 10
> Parsippany, NJ 07054-4538
> *mailto:dan.ro...@dialogic.com
> (Voice: +1 973-967-6485 Fax: +1 973-967-6262
> Intranet: http://compliance.eicon.com/
> Internet: http://www.dialogic.com
> 
> -  This 
> message is from the IEEE Product Safety 
> Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: 
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RE: FM Modulator Information

[Scott B. Lacey]

I once had a situation where we were testing 
a new system where the peripherals were 
unchanged since the last test. When things 
failed we traced it to a missing toroidal ferrite 
in one of the peripherals. It had been cost-
reduced out in spite of numerous "required for 
compliance" type notes on documents.

Scott B. Lacey

On 14 Aug 2008 at 0:00, Cortland Richmond 
wrote:

> A long time ago,in a company far away, I tested a wireless keyfob gadget for 
> Part 15.  We had to add metal tape in the case to reduce the field strength 
> to Part 15 levels, as we couldn't change the circuit.
> 
> Fast forward a number of years.  Lo and behold, it's my old employer in the 
> Daily Digest!  With a noncompliant keyfob gadget!
> 
> Can't say for sure, might not even be the same item, etc -- but I'd guess 
> some clever engineer noticed the things worked better without copper tape, 
> and had it removed. Probably got an incentive award!
> 
> Time "arches" on; Hello XM!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cortland Richmond
> KA5S 
> 
> -Original Message-
> >From: "Conway, Patrick R (Houston)" 
> >Sent: Aug 13, 2008 12:22 PM
> >To: "emc-p...@ieee.org" 
> >Subject: RE: FM Modulator Information
> >
> >A family member forwarded the below email.
> >(I'm pleasantly surprised that they remember my field of work !)
> >
> >Does anyone on this list subscribe to XM?
> >It would be interesting to know the details of the interference 
> > problem.
> >...
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
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RE: FM Modulator Information

[Scott B. Lacey]

Satellite radio? You can't be Sirius. :-)

On 13 Aug 2008 at 16:22, Conway, Patrick R 
(Houston) wrote:

> A family member forwarded the below email.
> (I'm pleasantly surprised that they remember my field of work !)
> 
> Does anyone on this list subscribe to XM?
> It would be interesting to know the details of the interference 
> problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Patrick Conway, NCE.
> Hewlett-Packard Co.
> p.con...@hp.com
> 281.514.2259
> 281-514.5473(fax)
> 
> ~~
> 
> 
> From: XM Radio [mailto:xmra...@xmradio.chtah.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 9:11 AM
> To:
> Subject: FM Modulator Information
> 
> 
> Dear XM Subscriber,
> 
> The FCC has notified XM that some of our older receiver models (generally, 
> those purchased before August, 2006) may not operate in the manner required 
> by the FCC and may cause interference to nearby FM radio users depending on 
> how the XM radio is installed or used.
> 
> The receiver models include the Roady2(r), SKYFi2(r), MyFi(r), Airware(r), 
> Tao, RoadyXT(r), Xpress(tm), Sportscaster, XR9-XCX9, Jensen JXR9, inno(r), 
> Helix(tm), and Nexus(r). Please note this notice does not apply to you if 
> your new car came installed with an XM receiver.
> 
> If you do have one or more of the receivers mentioned above and use it with 
> the wireless FM option or you have had the receiver professionally installed, 
> then we have several options available at no cost to you to alleviate this 
> possible interference. Please visit our website at www.xmradio.com/fmmodinfo 
>   or call us 
> toll-free at 866-410-0096 to choose one of the following three options:
> 
> Option A:
> We will send you ferrite beads to attach to your XM antenna and power adaptor 
> cables. (Ferrite beads are typically placed on the end of data cables to 
> reduce interference.)
> 
> Option B:
> We will send you a replacement cassette adapter to use with your XM radio. 
> Only choose this option if your car radio has a cassette player.
> 
> Option C:
> If your car does not have a cassette player, we will provide you with ferrite 
> beads and an installation kit, with hardware, to use in connection with a 
> professional installation of your radio along with a coupon redeemable at no 
> charge for professional installation.
> 
> Please visit the following website, www.xmradio.com/fmmodinfo 
>   for more 
> information and to select your option. If you do not have access to the 
> Internet, you may call 866-410-0096 for information on how to alleviate this 
> possible interference. To help expedite your order, please have your 8-digit 
> Radio ID (found on Channel 0 of your XM radio) and your FCC ID (found on the 
> back, the bottom, or under the battery of your XM radio), available when you 
> start this process.
> 
> Thank you for your attention to this matter.
> 
> Best Regards,
> XM Management
> 
> Note - If you are using your XM radio's FM modulator to send the XM signal to 
> a home or car stereo, your radio will work best if you use an unused FM 
> frequency. Go to www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/vacant 
>   to find the 
> best FM frequencies to use in your area.
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not reply to this email. This is a service email from XM Satellite 
> Radio. Please note that you may receive service email in accordance with your 
> XM Satellite Radio Customer Agreement, whether or not you elect to receive 
> promotional email.
> 
> XM Satellite Radio Inc., 1500 Eckington Place NE, Washington, D.C. 20002. 
> Copyright 2008 XM Satellite Radio. All rights reserved.
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
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Re: Another Cancer Scare?

[Scott B. Lacey]

I was once told the origins of the word expert:

Ex - a has-been
Spurt - a drip under pressure

Scott B. Lacey

On 29 Jul 2008 at 13:02, Fred Townsend 
wrote:

>  In court, experts can give opinion in place of  facts which is something 
> ordinary people can't do.

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RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

[Scott B. Lacey]

Richard and Scott,

Interestingly, some years ago I worked on a 
project involving a reaction calorimeter. One 
use (for some customers) was to test battery 
chemistries for just this type of runaway 
condition.

The materials being tested were heated in a 
containment vessel until an exothermic 
reaction occurred. Temperature and pressure 
were both tracked throughout. The idea was 
to determine the conditions preceding a 
runaway reaction so that protection could be 
added to battery packs to keep them below 
the critical temperature and pressure.

I suspect the Li-ion failures involve a flaw in 
the protection scheme  implementation rather 
than a lack of understanding the mechanism 
of failure. In the meantime I would advise 
anyone using Lithium-ion batteries to avoid 
recharging heavily discharged ones until they 
have cooled for a while. The same goes for 
drawing high current immediately after a 
charge.

Scott B. Lacey

On 7 Jul 2008 at 22:29, Scott Xe wrote:

> Richard,
> 
> If you want to prevent the battery pack from explosion/fire, compliance of
> those standards might not accomplish it for the time being.  UL 2054, UL
> 1642 and UL 60950-1 were prepared and published before Sony's battery
> recall.  All the standards are being revised to address the issue.  After a
> large scale of Sony's battery recall, the Li-ion battery pack continues to
> explode and catch fire in a smaller scale.  The users are awaiting the new
> replacement of battery pack or a firm solution to the probable explosion of
> existing Li-ion battery pack.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Scott
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
> kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 12:24 AM
> To: rpick...@rpqconsulting.com; oconne...@tamuracorp.com; emc-p...@ieee.org
> Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries
> 
> Also.For end use systems seeking compliance with UL 60950-1, see
> Annex P.1 with reference to cl. 4.3.8
> 
> Kaz
> kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ron
> Pickard, RPQ
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:07 AM
> To: 'Brian O'Connell'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
> Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries
> 
> Richard,
> 
>  
> 
> IMHO, if the lithium batteries are user replaceable (such as a removable
> battery pack), then they would need to be separately approved to UL
> 2054. I
> say that because in my experience, UL has required it in past Listing
> efforts of products with them. And, if this is a cell phone application,
> please note that the CTIA has recently imposed requirements for lithium
> batteries.
> 
> Supporting this, from UL2054's scope:
> 
>  
> 
> - These requirements cover portable primary (nonrechargeable) and
> secondary
> (rechargeable) batteries for use as power sources in products. These
> batteries consist of either a single electrochemical cell or two or more
> cells connected in series, parallel, or both, that convert chemical
> energy
> into electrical energy by chemical reaction.
> 
> - These requirements are intended to reduce the risk of fire or
> explosion
> when batteries are used in a product. The proper use of these batteries
> in a
> particular application is dependent on their use in a complete product
> that
> complies with the requirements applicable to such a product.
> 
> - These requirements are intended to cover batteries for general use and
> do
> not include the combination of the battery and the host product which
> are
> covered by requirements in the host product
> 
> standard.
> 
> - These requirements are also intended to reduce the risk of injury to
> persons due to fire or explosion when batteries are removed from a
> product
> to be transported, stored, or discarded.
> 
> - These requirements do not cover the toxicity risk that results from
> the
> ingestion of a battery or its contents, nor the risk of injury to
> persons
> that occurs if a battery is cut open to provide access to its contents.
> 
>  
> 
> The battery manufacturer would quite likely be already aware of all of
> this.
> They would be the one to approach for getting this work done.
> 
>  
> 
> Also, in addition to what Brian stated about shipping, the US and
> international shipping authorities have specific testing and labeling
> requirements for lithium batteries or products containing lithium
> batteries.
> Testing involves the UN T1-T8 tests.
> 
>  
> 
> IHTH.
> 
>  
> 
> Best regards,
> 
>  
> 
> Ron Pickard
> 
> RPQ Consulting
> 
> 7372 West Lu

RE: mobile phone safety

[Scott B. Lacey]

I suspect this is the kind of "artistic license" 
used in many TV commercials. It fits in nicely 
with talking cows and other absurdities. Seen 
in proper context most people would see it as 
a clever joke.

I'm guessing this comes from an ad that got 
posted on a viral video site.


On 18 Jun 2008 at 10:08, Benoit Nadeau 
wrote:

> 
> Bonjour 
> 
> It is a fake; it is coming form a company that sells Bluetooth ear plugs.
> 
> Did you ever count the time it takes in a microwave oven to ear the first pop 
> compare to the time 
> you see the grain pop in the video?
> 
> But, as I say to my wife, these scary messages that come from time to time 
> about the possible 
> bad effects of RF energy are job security for me...
> 
> Bye,
> 
> Benoit
> 
> ==
> 
> 
> 
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pettit, Ghery
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:56 AM
> To: James, Chris; emc-p...@ieee.org
> Subject: RE: mobile phone safety
> 
> 
> Having tried to pop popcorn in an underpowered microwave oven once, I think 
> these videos are 
> hoaxes.
> 
> Ghery Pettit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of James, Chris
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:06 PM
> To: emc-p...@ieee.org
> Subject: mobile phone safety
> 
> 
> Anyone care to comment on whether popping pop-corn with mobile (cell) phones 
> is a reality?
> 
> A number of video clips are appearing on the internetdemonstrating it but it 
> could of course be 
> contrived:
> 
> http://www.koreus.com/video/telephone-portable-mais-popcorn.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information 
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> delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, 
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Re: Chassis mount PS UL considerations

[Scott B. Lacey]

Hi Alex,

I don't think the current plan will be ok as is. 
Thumbscrews are not "tool accessible" so 
theoretically untrained personnel could access 
dangerous voltages. Some options might be:

1) Contact the supply manufacturer and ask 
them if they could supply it with "european" 
type barrier strip as an option.

2) Fabricate a shield to keep fingers away 
>from the barrier strip. As long as it requires 
tools to remove it you should be ok.

3) Replace the thumb screws with something 
that requires a tool for access and put the 
appropriate warning labels on the outside 
("Danger - High Voltage, Trained Personnel 
Only" type)

No matter which way you go the warning 
label(s) should be used.

Scott B. Lacey

On 16 Jun 2008 at 12:15, Alex Horvath wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm an EE at a small company and I have to figure out the regulatory issues 
> on my own so apologies for rudimentary nature of my question...
> Or product is a telcom industry product designed that will be located in 
> "back room" type application. It is chassis based (metal) and I have selected 
> a chassis mount, metal case AC-DC power supply that will be mounted inside 
> the chassis. The rub here is that the inside of the chassis will be customer 
> accessible (customer is sys admin type personnel) for routine/necessary 
> product configuration. The chassis is accessed via 2 thumbscrews that allow a 
> panel to swing open at which point the AC terminals on the power supply will 
> be exposed. An example of the power supply is -
> http://www.v-infinity.com/adtemplate.asp?invky=1008007&catky=764537&subcatky1=46887&subcatky2=809398&subcatky3=
> which has ring terminal connections.
> To pass UL, I'm guessing that additional shielding will be required to cover 
> the ring terminals. Are there detailed requirements for this type of 
> situation or is any reasonable cover/shield acceptable?
> Thanks,
> Alex
> 
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Re: Epoxy Bonding

[Scott B. Lacey]

Ed,

My first question is the degradation in 
shielding effectivenesss compared to what? If 
you are comparing the conductive epoxy to a 
screw-fastened connection you need to know 
the exact resistance of both shield paths. I 
think if you took a good four-wire resistance 
measurement box-to-box for a typical cable 
length you could get a good comparison of 
relative resistance. If one construction had 5% 
higher total resistance the degradation would 
be at least 5% at the lower frequencies.

I've had fairly good success using two 
multimeters if a 4-wire unit is not available. 
One provides the current source (on Lo 
Ohms) and the other measures millivolts. I 
use large alligator clips with the measurement 
clips inside of the ones for current.

Scott B. Lacey

On 16 Jun 2008 at 8:48, Price, Edward wrote:

> 
> I'm curious about the effect of using a gold (or silver) loaded 
> epoxy to bond a connector shell to a chassis box. If I measured 
> a bond resistance of about 1 Ohm from the connector shell to 
> the chassis, how could I estimate the degradation in shielding 
> effectiveness (frequency range of interest is about 10 kHz to 5 
> MHz)? 
> 
> Maybe this has been thoroughly covered in some past 
> Symposium papers. Can anyone give me a hint about where to 
> look? Of course, absolutely definitive answers, which allow me 
> to remain lazy, are also quite acceptable. 
> 
> Thanks in advance! 
> 
> 
> Ed Price 
> ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN 
> NARTE Certified EMC Engineer & Technician 
> Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab 
> Cubic Defense Applications 
> San Diego, CAUSA 
> 858-505-2780 (Voice) 
> 858-505-1583 (FAX) 
> Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty 
> 
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Re: Switch

[Scott B. Lacey]

Hi Derek, 


I would contact the engineering departments of both manufacturers and obtain
information re. switchover times. Generally, switches optimized for ac only
use have a "soft", or slower switch time. Switches for dc use have a fast
"snap" action to reduce the chance of contact welding. Switches with both ac
and dc ratings are a compromise. 


Contact spacing and switchover time will affect emi, so a case could be made
that switches with similar geometry should have similar emi generation
characteristics. 


Scott B. Lacey 


On 5 Jun 2008 at 10:40, Derek Walton wrote: 


> Hi All, 
> 
> I have been asked if there was a way to prevent testing a mechanical 
> switch for EMI. The background is that the exact aircraft switch was not 
> available at the time of the system EMI test, so a substitute was used. 
> The suitability of the correct switch is now being questioned since it 
> was not present during the EMI test. 
> 
> This is a mechanical switch with just electrical contacts. For immunity, 
> it should be blatantly obvious, but not so at our final customer. For 
> emissions, there is potentially a noise source during the few 
> microseconds as the contacts touch or open. However, this is a low level 
> signal, and similar contacts on the substitute device would have 
> exhibited similar noise had it been an issue. 
> 
> If anyone has suggestions on building a case why not to test this 
> mechanical switch I'd appreciate it. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Derek Walton 
> L F Research 
> 
> - 
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Re: VCCI logo in dxf format

[Scott B. Lacey]

The eps is in vector format, the jpg is in rastor 
format.

If you do not receive the logo in dxf format 
>from a list member, go to www.google.com 
and type "eps to dxf" in the search bar. There 
are several freeware converters available.

Scott B. Lacey



On 27 May 2008 at 19:40, 
kbalasubraman...@scmmicro.co.in wrote:

> Dear Members,
>   We are trying to emboss the VCCI logo in the plastic  casing of an
> ITE product and we need VCCI logo in dxf format. From the VCCI official
> website we are able to get the eps & jpg format only but we are not able to
> create the logos properly with these files. May I request the forum members
> help in this regard. If somebody can provide me the dxf file it will be of
> great use to us.
> 
> Thanking you in advance
> 
> K. Bala
> SCM Microsystems (India) Pvt. Ltd.
> 
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RE: Table Location for RE Measurement

[Scott B. Lacey]

Brian,

The "nearest part of the boundary of the 
equipment under test in one rotation" would 
usually be the corners (for rectangular 
equipment). Picture the smallest circle that 
just touches the equipment. Measure the 
antenna distance from the outside of that 
circle.

The imaginary circle should be concentric with 
the turntable.

Scott B. Lacey

On 16 May 2008 at 9:21, Kunde, Brian wrote:

> 
> Grace, 
> 
> You bring up an interesting subject and one I have never had a clear 
> understanding of. I think 
> most labs center the test table on the turntable andline up the EUT and 
> peripherals along the 
> back edge of the table. They also place the antenna 10 (or 3) meter away 
> measured from the 
> center of the turntable, not the EUT. I know this is not what the standard 
> says but this is how most 
> do it for repeatability. If you are moving your table around and antenna mast 
> for each setup you 
> will never be able to repeat that setup at other labs. Many labs cannot move 
> the table or the mast 
> for they are hard mounted. 
> 
> Whether the table is positioned center on the turntable OR so the EUT is 
> centered shouldn't make 
> that much difference in the measurement values, especially if you are testing 
> at a 10 meter 
> distance. At 3 meter it will have more of an affect but not more thana couple 
> db at best and that 
> is why we have margin. The difference between 10 and 11 meter distanceis only 
> .83db. The 
> difference between 3 and 4 meter distance is 2.5db. The few centimeter 
> difference you are 
> talking able cannot have much difference in the test results. 
> 
> The distance between the EUT and the antennachanges more drasticallyduring 
> the test as the 
> turntable turns. When the antenna travels up on the mast it gets farther away 
> from the EUT 
> especially when testingat a 3 meter distance. 
> 
> The EN 55011 standard says the following: 
> "7.2.2 Disposition of equipment under test (9 kHz to 1 GHz)
> If it is possible to do so, the equipment under test shall be placed on a 
> turntable. The separation 
> between the equipment under test and the measuring antenna shall be the 
> horizontal distance 
> between the measuring antenna and the nearest part of the boundary of the 
> equipment 
> under test in one rotation."
> I have no idea what "nearest part of the boundary of the equipment under test 
> in one rotation" 
> means. Maybe someone can explain it to me. 
> 
> I guess technically, you could maximize your turntable angle, then move your 
> antenna so it is 
> exactly 10 (or 3) meter away from the EUT and then record that value, but who 
> really has time for 
> that. 
> 
> Tell your engineers and manager that a few hundred centimeters will not have 
> more than 1db 
> difference and moving the test table to different locations on the turntable 
> jeopardizes 
> repeatability. 
> 
> The Other Brian 
> 
> 
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:40 PM
> To: emc-p...@ieee.org
> Subject: Table Location for RE Measurement
> Dear Members, 
> 
> Is there any test standardindicating the location of 1-meter by 1.5-meter 
> table in the (2-meter) 
> turntable? Legend 6) of Figure 11a of ANSI C63.4: 2003states: 
> 
> "Rear of EUT, including peripherals, shall all be aligned and flush with rear 
> of tabletop". 
> 
> I assume this legend appliesto all tabletop equipment, including non-computer 
> devices. Our 
> engineers align the EUT flush with rear of tabletop. However, some engineers 
> feel the EUT 
> should be in the center of the 2m turntable and they move the 1mx1.5m table 
> forthe EUT to be in 
> the centerof the2m turntable. Some engineers leave the 1mx1.5m table in the 
> center of the 2m 
> turntable.Due to each engineer's preference, the 1mx1.5m table is moved 
> frequently. Some 
> engineers took data in different table location and confused by the data 
> taken. The complaint 
> arises and brings to the managers' attention. 
> 
> Thank you and look forward to your input. 
> 
> Best regards, 
> Grace 
> 
> 
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Re: Ethics grad work Therac-25

[Scott B. Lacey]

Part of the problem lies in the structure of 
most modern corporations. Good news 
propagates upward quickly while bad news 
gets filtered by yhe time it reaches the top.

The analogy I like to use is of a feudal castle. 
The message "Tell the King the castle is on 
fire" is so heavily diluted that by the time it 
reached the King he would be left with the 
impression that there was a cozy fire in the 
fireplace.

It is a sad fact of human nature that 
messengers bearing bad news are seldom 
rewarded for telling the truth. This makes the 
test engineer's job especially difficult.

Scott B. Lacey

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OT: Line wrap for emails

[Scott B. Lacey]

Off-topic Subject: Line wrap for emails

To the group,

I hope fellow members can help. I've noticed 
that my emails are getting extra line breaks 
when posted to the emc-pstc forum.

I have also noticed that emails from others also 
show line break issues. What is the best setting 
to be compatible with most of the world?

I use Pegasus under Vista.

Offline replies suggested due to off-topic 
subject.

Scott B. lacey

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Re: New Technology

[Scott B. Lacey]

An interesting discussion. I'd like to inject a few 
points:

Prior to the discovery of petroleum oil the main 
source of oil for lamps was the rendered 
blubber of sperm whales.

Pollution from coal-fired locomotives destroyed 
streams next to railroads. This was the public 
transportation of the day.

Pollution from horses was a huge problem and 
health hazard in cities.

Each generation has it's challenges. Every time 
I hear someone say they would like to eliminate 
the use of oil I want to remind them that 
gasoline is just one of many products derived 
>from a cracking tower. Most people would be 
shocked to know how many vital items are 
produced from oil.

Many "alternative energy solutions" bring their 
own new problems. Using corn to make ethanol 
for fuel is causing food supply and price issues. 
Windmills are noisy, and expensive to build and 
maintain. Electric and hybrid vehicles have 
issues related to the batteries and controls. 
Firefighters and other emergency workers are 
concerned about safety in accidents. The 
average mechanic is forbidden to work on them 
and the ones who have been specially qualified 
are in great demand.

Ken Javor has stated the real problem 
correctly. The Overlords want more control of 
the kind they had at the dawn of the industrial 
age and will try to get it through engineered 
crisis'. Many years ago I wrote an opinion piece 
(never published) on this subject titled 
"Gunpowder and Gasoline, Portable Power to 
the People". My opinion has not changed.

Besides, as a motorcycle owner in the 
Northeast, Global Warming = more riding days.

Scott B. Lacey

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