Re: [PSES] CB Test Certificates and IEC 60529 test notation
Hi Chuck, The OD 2037 is clear and need to be followed by NCBs when issue the CBTC. On the specified case, the notification of IEC 60529 tests in "Additional info" it is OK and accepted by Recognizing- NCBs. I hope that my answer clarify your question. With best regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Member of BoD IEEE-PSES Convener IEC 62A/MT29+MT 62354 Lead and Technical Auditor IECEE 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org From: Chuck August-McDowell Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 12:24 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CB Test Certificates and IEC 60529 test notation Greetings from Berkeley, I am writing today with a question on CB Test Certificates and additional testing to IEC 60529 being noted. My reference document is downloaded from the IECEE web site. Document IECEE OPERATIONAL DOCUMENT, CB Scheme Test Certificates IECEE OD-2037:2016 C IEC 2016 File name: od-2037_ed.1.8.pdf The document gives this guidance; 4.2 A CBTC can only be issued when all relevant tests from the (vertical) standard applicable to a specific component/end-product have been conducted as opposed to horizontal (e.g. IEC 60529) standards that are called up by a vertical standard (e.g. IEC 60335-1). Consequently: - no stand-alone CBTC shall be issued based exclusively on IEC 60529 requirements, 7 Reporting under "Additional Information" 7.1 If the product is tested and evaluated in accordance with a horizontal standard for a more stringent requirement than is contained in the Product Standard, this information may be reported in the "Additional Information" of the Test Certificate So, my products vertical standard is Product Standard IEC 60065 8th ed. And the horizontal standard called for by 60065 is IEC 60529:1989, Degrees of protection provided by enclosures (IP Code) My question today is Have you received a CB Test Certificate where IEC 60529 is noted in the "Additional Information" section? How is test compliance noted? Would this notation in "Additional Information" be acceptable? ""Additionally evaluated to Water Spray Test For Enclosure Designation IPX5 - IEC 60529, Edition 2.2," Thank you in advance for reply's. Respectfully, * Chuck McDowell Compliance Specialist Meyer Sound Laboratories Inc. 2832 San Pablo Ave. Berkeley, CA 94702-2204 Direct: 510-540-4670 Phone 510-486-1166 Ext. 270 Fax 510-486-8356 Email cmcdow...@meyersound.com <mailto:cmcdow...@meyersound.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Happy Easter 2018
Dear Colleagues, >From Holy Land I wish to all Happy Easter 2018. Best Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Member of BoG IEEE-PSES - Technical Committee Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354 & MT29 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts
Hi Brian, Details about Surge suppressors you can find in the IEC 61644-1 and UL 1449 standards. Best Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Member of BoD IEEE-PSES Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 7:39 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts We have been requested to pass 15kV on the mains input. Best Regards, Brian C. From: James Pawson (U3C) [mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk] Sent: August-22-17 9:36 AM To: Brian Ceresney mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com> >; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts Hello Brian, What surge voltages are you testing to? Presumably just on the mains input? Thanks James From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] Sent: 22 August 2017 17:31 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts Dear Regulatory Experts, We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial battery charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits, ostensibly to help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of the product, we have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground, Line-Line, and Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in North America, and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both. I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable failure of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in line with each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication to warn the user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series connected spark -gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some discussion about the rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how to perform it, especially on the production line. I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is recent. In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to find a standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue. Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can light my way? Thanks, in advance, Best Regards, Brian (the third Brian, I think) _ Brian Ceresney Regulatory Lead Delta-Q Technologies Corp. 3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby, B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3 Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list
Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonized standard withdrawn
Dear Scott,
The "National Differences" refer to particular requirements for a country or a
group of counties (i.e. EU) included in an IEC standard when the standard is
adopted by these county or group of countries. The ND need to be public
declared in the IECEE site by the NCBs part of CB Scheme. These ND up-date the
standard requirements accordingly. You are correct by specifying " If the
applicant indicates the destined market, the testing house cannot avoid the
testing to national differences and deviations" and for this reason the test
report need to refer to the specific standards from the indicated country or
group of countries. Sometime the testing houses not cover in the correct way
the specified ND or not refer as needs to the local standards. If the applicant
do not specify the target markets for his product, the testing houses provide
the test report only according to IEC (the case of CB Scheme).
Best Regards,
Steli
Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE
Member of BoD IEEE-PSES
Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354
17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd.
Tel Aviv 6436719
Israel
Tel:+972-3-6912668
Fax:+972-3-6913988
Mobile:+972-54-7245794
e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org
-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 2:49 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonized standard withdrawn
Dear Steli,
Thanks for your advice! Do National Differences mean National conditions and
National deviations normally in Annex of the standard?
How can a testing house ignore the National Differences? I dare to guest the
applicants may not decide where the goods to be sold when applies for the
testing. Thus the testing house either does not test the national differences
or test all national differences. As a commercial testing house, testing them
all will increase the testing charges reducing their competitive edge on the
market. If the applicant indicates the destined market, the testing house
cannot avoid the testing to national differences and deviations. The buyer
must be careful to accept the supplier’s evidence when they receive those
testing report and see if it fits for purpose.
Regards,
Scott
On 22/7/2017, 6:01 PM, "Steli Loznen" wrote:
Dear Scott,
In addition to the Mr. Woodgate comment, please be informed that in the
frame of the CB Scheme need to pay attention to "National Differences" on IEC
standards. This is an important issue which not all time is addressed by the
testing houses which issue the CB Test Reports.
Best Regards,
Steli
Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE
Member of BoG IEEE-PSES
Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354
17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd.
Tel Aviv 6436719
Israel
Tel:+972-3-6912668
Fax:+972-3-6913988
Mobile:+972-54-7245794
e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org
-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 11:54 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn
Dear John,
It is a good point to note!
Thanks and regards,
Scott
On 22/7/2017, 4:37 PM, "John Woodgate" wrote:
The EN and the IEC are *never* identical, especially now that the ENs
have to include a succession of 'Z' annexes. Large parts of the technical
content may well be identical, but the ENs include a lot of European 'baggage',
which can't safely be ignored.
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
Sent: 22 July 2017 09:13
To: John Woodgate
Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn
Hi John,
I notice the CB reports that they will conduct the test according to
IEC standard and the standards for destined market, i.e. EN for EU. As usual,
EN standards are derived from IEC standard. If the IEC standard is listed
below the EN standard without indication of modified, the IEC compliance report
can be used as self-declaration of conformity to the directive due to the fact
that both EN and IEC standards are identical.
Regards,
Scott
On 22/7/2017, 2:24 PM, "John Woodgate" wrote:
That isn't a 'listing' of the IEC standards, it's an indication of
what the EN was derived from. You can see that, because some of the IEC
standards are described as '(modified)'.
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England
Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonized standard withdrawn
Dear Scott, In addition to the Mr. Woodgate comment, please be informed that in the frame of the CB Scheme need to pay attention to "National Differences" on IEC standards. This is an important issue which not all time is addressed by the testing houses which issue the CB Test Reports. Best Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Member of BoG IEEE-PSES Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org -Original Message- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 11:54 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn Dear John, It is a good point to note! Thanks and regards, Scott On 22/7/2017, 4:37 PM, "John Woodgate" wrote: The EN and the IEC are *never* identical, especially now that the ENs have to include a succession of 'Z' annexes. Large parts of the technical content may well be identical, but the ENs include a lot of European 'baggage', which can't safely be ignored. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. -Original Message- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 22 July 2017 09:13 To: John Woodgate Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn Hi John, I notice the CB reports that they will conduct the test according to IEC standard and the standards for destined market, i.e. EN for EU. As usual, EN standards are derived from IEC standard. If the IEC standard is listed below the EN standard without indication of modified, the IEC compliance report can be used as self-declaration of conformity to the directive due to the fact that both EN and IEC standards are identical. Regards, Scott On 22/7/2017, 2:24 PM, "John Woodgate" wrote: That isn't a 'listing' of the IEC standards, it's an indication of what the EN was derived from. You can see that, because some of the IEC standards are described as '(modified)'. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. -Original Message- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 22 July 2017 03:53 To: John Woodgate ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn Dear John, The attached HS list does have IEC standards. Do they have other meaning that I might incorrectly interpret it? Thanks and regards, Scott On 22/7/2017, 1:08 AM, "John Woodgate" wrote: IEC standards are rarely, if ever, notified in the OJ, because they are not harmonized so all EU/CENELEC countries do not have to accept them. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. -Original Message- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 21 July 2017 17:50 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn Hi Durrer, Both IEC and EN 60335-2-24 were in the harmonised standard list of OJEU before they were removed. Regarding the national standard BS EN 60335-2-24 should be technically identical with EN 60335-2-24. Although it is still valid in BSI website, the HS removal is due to UK objection. It does not make sense using BS EN 60335-2-24 to declare the compliance with LVD. It is good suggestion to take care this known issue in risk assessment required in LVD. As this issue is being discussed in IEC to EN standard conversion. For the time being, the latest IEC A2 amendment seems a reasonable reference to address the fire risk. Regards, Scott On 21/7/2017, 4:16 PM, "Dürrer Bernd" wrote: Dear Scott, The removal of the reference to EN 60335-2-24 from the OJEU means that compliance with this standard does not provide the presumption of conformity as defined in Article 12 of LVD. Actually, the nationally adopted versions of this standard are still valid (e.g. BS EN 60335-2-24, https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=0030236214). As IEC 60335
[PSES] Electrical Product Compliance and Safety Engineering - a new book
Dear Colleagues, Let me to recommend you my new book “Electrical Product Compliance and Safety Engineering” published by Artech House. Please refer to the below info and use for orders (with a 30% discount and free shipping) the Promo Code: LOZ30 (offer expires on May 31, 2017). It is the first book which put together the main issues related to compliance and safety for electrical products. Electrical Product Compliance and Safety Engineering Steli Loznen, Constantin Bolintineanu, and Jan Swart “The authors have assembled a comprehensive tutorial for manufacturers who are building or upgrading their electrical product safety program. This book is a useful toolkit for both the experienced product safety engineer and for those new to the discipline.” Charles Sidebottom, Managing Partner, PPO Standards LLC., Secretary of IEC Subcommittee 62A • Guides professionals in product compliance and safety in order to develop more profitable products, contribute to customer satisfaction, and reduce the risk of liability. • Analyzes the principles and methods of critical standards, highlighting how they should be applied in the field. It explores the philosophy of electrical product safety and analyzes the concepts of compliance and safety, perception of risk, failure, normal and abnormal conditions, and redundancy. • Gives valuable information on power sources, product construction requirements, markings, compliance testing, and manufacturing of safe electrical products. Hardcover • 400 pp. • May 2017 ISBN: 978-1-63081-025-2 $149 30% Savings! Only $104.30 £119 30% Savings! Only £83.30 To Order: For customers in the US, Canada, South America, Australia, New Zealand: Call: 1-800-225-9977 (in the U.S. or Canada), or 1-781-769-9750, ext. 4030 Fax: 1-781-769-6334 E-mail:<mailto:art...@artechhouse.com> art...@artechhouse.com For customers in the UK, EMEA, Asia, or International orders: Call: +44 (0)20 7596-8750 Fax: +44 (0)20 7630-0166 E-mail:<mailto:artech...@artechhouse.com> artech...@artechhouse.com With best regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Member of BoD IEEE-PSES Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: <mailto:sloz...@ieee.org> sloz...@ieee.org This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Happy Easter 2017
Dear Colleagues, >From Holy Land I wish to all Happy Easter 2017. Best Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Member of BoD IEEE-PSES Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] IEC 60601-1-2 Edition 4
Dear Colleagues, Somebody can inform me if IEC 60601-1-2 Edition 4 is requested NOW in Brazil. For EU and FDA the due date is 31 December 2018. Thank in advance, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Member of BoD IEEE-PSES Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] UL Follow Up Service vs CIG Inspection
Hi Vincent, Not exist CIG “factory inspection”! If is referring to “CIG inspection” from terminological point of view, can be considered the inspection conducted by the Cargo Inspection Group which refer to crude oil, petroproducts and petrochemicals These do not have any connection with electrical or electronic product. I guess that your question refer to CIG 021-CIG 024 forms used during the factory inspections on the Follow Up Services by NRTLs. These documents, CIG 021-CIG 024, are related to ECS (European Certification System) as part of EEPCA, the European Electrical Products Certification Association and ETICS – European Testing Inspection Certification System. These documents can be used by ECS members and their authorized agents for factory inspections. Some NRTLs (e.g. UL, TUVRNA, etc.) have adopted (at it is or with modifications) the ECS CIG forms as documents for Follow-up Services Inspections. Such cannot be considered in our field of activities the statement “UL Follow Up Service vs CIG Inspection”. I hope that the above clarify the issue. Vincent, the Jim recommendation, to attend the IEEE PSES events is really very useful for you. With best regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Member of BoD IEEE-PSES Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org From: Jim Bacher [mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org] Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2017 9:28 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] UL Follow Up Service vs CIG Inspection CIG factory inspection reports can be used to avoid inspections by off shore certification bodies, which saves time and money. As you are new to compliance you should consider attending the IEEE PSES Symposium on Compliance Engineering. A number of those answering questions on this list will be there allowing you to learn from them in person. Details at: http://2017.psessymposium.org On Jan 2, 2017 10:16 AM, "Vincent Lee" <08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org <mailto:08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> > wrote: Hi all, Happy 2017. As I am a beginner in product safety, may I know what is the differences between UL Follow Up Service (to maintain UL Markings such as UL Listed and UL Recognized) and CIG Inspection ? Does it mean that when a production line is found to be compliance after UL Follow Up Service, only a little more tasks are needed to be done for compliance during CIG Inspection and vice versa ? Hope to hear from you soon. Thank you and have a blessed 2017. Vincent - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety En
Re: [PSES] Happy New Year 2017
Dear Colleagues, >From Holy Land I wish to all Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2017. Best Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Member of BoD IEEE-PSES Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Stairs/Steps/Ramps for Medical Use
Hi John, Until now was not published a particular 60601 standard specially for steps, stairs and/or ramps. Such the general standard 3rd ed. Ch.9 apply. Best Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Member of BoD IEEE-PSES Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 8:04 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Stairs/Steps/Ramps for Medical Use Hi, The closest part 2 of 60601 I could find for the subject is -2-46 Operating tables and-2-52 Beds. Does anyone know if there an IEC Standard for medical steps, stairs and/or ramps. Client has a two step stair case that a patient can use to get onto a scale. Thanks, John John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc. Your Outsourced Compliance DepartmentR <http://www.productsafetyinc.com> http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Safety standards versus safety engineering
Indeed very interesting and controversial issue. During the change of the messages was circulated very useful ideas and opinions which are resulted from long experiences. In my opinion the main aspect which need to act as a link between all these valuable inputs is the formation process of a Products Safety Engineer (PSE). When the Academia will agree that PSE is not a “low tech” and will offer the real “high tech” position for this profession, by including the study of this profession on the Academic Syllabus, the culture will be changed. Such the top managements, designers, manufacturers, sub-contractors, supply chain providers, etc will have a more responsible and professional approach of “safety”. If will continue to have the lawyers establishing how to deal with Products Safety, unfortunately accidents and also disasters will be difficult to be reduced in frequency. Steli Loznen Member of BoD IEEE-PSES From: Mike Sherman - Original Message - [mailto:msherma...@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 7:17 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety standards versus safety engineering Re "...and dismissal of identifiable risks deemed conveniently unlikely to occur." This is a real issue in organizations, and was a key contributor to the Columbia space shuttle disaster. NASA's Columbia Accident Investigation Board's final report explores this contributor a lot. The report is easy to find on the web. As safety professionals, we are more effective if we understand the psychology that makes such dismissal attractive and learn to counteract it. Mike Sherman Graco Inc. _ From: "CR" To: "EMC-PSTC" Sent: Friday, March 6, 2015 6:46:33 AM Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety standards versus safety engineering On 3/6/2015 2:56 AM, John Woodgate wrote: > Making the designers responsible for the safety of the design (as > opposed to the safety of what is shipped, over which they have no > control) immediately eliminates any claim that it's not their problem > and/or cramps their style. I'm not a Safety Engineer; my work is in EMC but... Some years ago, after the EU tripled the immunity requirement for medical equipment, I had occasion to speak with a management type complaining that a test plan I'd written required them to do tests no other firm did, and would place them at a competitive disadvantage. Asked why, I said: "Because I don't want you to kill people whose lives you're trying to save." * End of discussion. * For an example of what I was thinking about, see number 3 Banana Skin at /http://www.compliance-club.com/archive/old_archive/Bananaskins.htm/ . In any event no one had HAD to test to those levels before, and he didn't want to start. It seems to me that many firms waste and disparage the pride its own engineering staff takes in work they do, binding it in a web of Six Sigma process control inapplicable to creative work, and grinding it away with a wheel made equally of cost cutting and dismissal of identifiable risks deemed conveniently unlikely to occur. That may be another topic. Cortland Richmond - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4257/9210 - Release Date: 03/02/15 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send m
Re: [PSES] Consistency of safety definitions
Dear John A., John W. and Rich; Dear all, As an active participant from 1994 in the standards development (IEC-TC62-SC62A) I strongly agree with the comments referring to the non-harmonization present on this activity. The issues raised by you, unfortunately represent the reality. Indeed, except few TCs, the IEC “really only looking for committee-administrators rather than technologically-experienced engineering types”. The reason can be found in the lack of interest of the young generation to be involved in a “pro buono” voluntary activity and only the big companies and laboratories are ready to support financially the standard development activities. We are close to a critical situation, when only the “interested” bodies will impose them point of view and the procedure for “consensus voting” by the P-members will become, regrettably, formal an strong influenced by these “interested” global organizations. Now shall be the time when ACOS need to play his coordinative professional role. An example refer to the inertia in adoption for Basic Safety tests a harmonized methodology applicable to all products categories. Which differences exist i.e for heating test or for leakage current measurement, between different products categories? Any difference. But each product standard present his own test method. Useless and confusing. Another example is, as was mentioned already in this discussion, the absence of a harmonized terminology and definition of terms. Same situation is present also in other bodies in which are preferred “committee-administrators rather than technologically-experienced engineering professionals”. Maybe we as professionals with wide and long experience in the field needs now to take a position and to ask IEC, ACOS to “open the eyes” until will be late. I am ready to participate in such Action Group for rescue the Products Safety Engineering from falling in a routine and a “dedicated” (“interested”) process. Maybe this alarm signal can help. Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-I Member of IEEE-PSES BoD 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. 64367 Tel Aviv ISRAEL Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 E-mail: <mailto:sloz...@ieee.org> sloz...@ieee.org From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 10:29 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Consistency of safety definitions Rich, (and John, of course!) Thanks for the insight, but not for the “bad news”! Having been a little involved in standards-making in the (dim and distant, it has to be said – see below!), past, it’s got to be sad that those types of influences can prevail in the modern world, especially given the significant overall progress towards global harmonization of requirements. I think a significant part of the problem could be the type of staffing of the national bodies that participate in the standards-making processes – particularly where this includes bureaucrats rather than technologists, because those can be the people who drive the “publish regardless” approach in order to maximise revenues. As an example, when I was a BSI Standards Project Manager for a brief period in 1989-1990, many of the committee secretaries for “technical products” had little or no technical knowledge or experience of the industries which produced those products. Thus the industry-based committee chairmen could drive the standards in the directions that THEY wanted, rather than what would be the best for the industry as a whole – and sometimes it did take some “head-banging” to get standards made with the appropriate technical criteria. I don’t think the situation has improved since then because (having got out of the role because I wanted to get back into industry) when I applied for another similar job back at BSI some years later (after having been made redundant several times), I was told that I was “over-qualified” and that they were really only looking for committee-administrators rather than technologically-experienced engineering types. And, from what you said, I think my take on the UK situation could well be reflected worldwide, and at the “top of the pile” in particular, and so the personal views of the individual committee chairmen can still be override the need for across-the-board harmonization of underlying basic requirements like definitions of earthing and so on. Therefore, I think that it must be for the chairmen of the TC’s (such as 108) to realise and appreciate how their decisions need to be based on “wider pictures” rather than on just the preferences of their own industries. That is especially true where components/assemblies produced by one industry sector are widely used in other sectors – and with the ITE, AV, industrial machinery and control systems, medical (etc., etc.) sectors now using very similar/identical “bu
Re: [PSES] iso 14971 latest
Hi Garry, The last ISO/IEC edition of 14971 is from 2007. Other 14971 document refer to national implementation; this explain the different years. Some of these have specified differences, i.e. BS EN 14971:2012 which specify differences needs for harmonization with MDD Essential Requirements. The Japanese edition can be something similar. Regards, Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-I Member of IEEE-PSES BoD 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. 64367 Tel Aviv ISRAEL Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 E-mail: <mailto:sloz...@ieee.org> sloz...@ieee.org From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 11:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] iso 14971 latest I was looking for the latest version of the above standard. After looking at a couple of sites the edition 2 2007 seems to be the most current, but then I see a a JIS T 14971:2012 - What is this? Thanks Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer Esterline Interface Technologies Featuring ADVANCED INPUT, GAMESMAN, and LRE MEDICAL products 600 W. Wilbur Avenue Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815-9496 Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X1XXX Tel: (509) 868 2279 Fax: (208) 635-863 8306 www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologies Technology, Innovation, Performance. "Information in or attached to this e-mail message may be subject to export control restrictions of the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) (22 CFR pts. 120-130) or the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) (15 CFR pts. 730-774). Before exporting this information outside the United States or releasing it to a foreign person in the United States, you need to determine whether a license under the EAR or the ITAR is required to do so. If you have any questions about this obligation, please contact me." _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4794 / Virus Database: 4253/8770 - Release Date: 12/19/14 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher David Heald - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Happy Easter 2014
Dear Friends, Happy Easter 2014 and Hag Pesach Sameah. Best Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-I Member of IEEE-PSES BoD 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. 64367 Tel Aviv ISRAEL Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 E-mail: sloz...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Gold medal for product safety?
Dear Willard, Yes, exist awards of IEEE-PSES. For details please contact Mr. Murlin Marks at murl...@ieee.org<mailto:murl...@ieee.org> (cc on this message). Best Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc.,SM-IEEE Member of BoD IEEE-PSES Q.A. and Certification Manager Convener of IEC/TC62/SC62A/WG17 I.T.L (Product Testing) Ltd. 1, Bat Sheva St., POB 87 LOD 71100, ISRAEL Tel: 972-8-9153100 Fax: 972-8-9153101 Mobile: 972-54-7245794 E-mail: st...@itl.co.il<mailto:st...@itl.co.il> www.itl.co.il<http://www.itl.co.il> ___ This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. From: Willard Bradley-G13637 [mailto:bradley.will...@motorolasolutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 7:46 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Gold medal for product safety? Esteemed colleagues, Is there any type of award or recognition for product safety either at a product level or at a company level? Do any of the industry design awards include product safety as part of their evaluation criteria? If not, is this an area that the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society could contribute? Thanks for sharing! Brad Willard Motorola Solutions - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Happy New Year 2014
Dear Colleagues, >From Holy Land I wish to all Happy Holidays and Happy New Year 2014! With all my best regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE I.T.L (Product Testing) Ltd. Q.A & Certification Manager Convener IEC/TC62/SC62A/MT29 1, Bat Sheva St., P.O.Box 6117 LOD 7116002, ISRAEL Phone:+972-8-9186100 int.203 Fax:+972-8-9153101 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: st...@itl.co.il www.itl.co.il___ This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Easter 2013
All my best wishes for a Happy Easter 2013. Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE I.T.L (Product Testing) Ltd. Q.A & Certification Manager Convener IEC/TC62/SC62A/MT29 Member of IEEE-PSES BoD 1, Bat Sheva St., P.O.Box 87 LOD 71100, ISRAEL Phone:+972-8-9186100 int.203 Fax:+972-8-9153101 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: st...@itl.co.il www.itl.co.il - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Happy New Year 2013
Dear Colleagues, >From Holy Land I wish to all Happy New Year 2013 with health and progress. Best Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE I.T.L (Product Testing) Ltd. Q.A & Certification Manager Convener IEC/TC62/SC62A/MT29 1, Bat Sheva St., P.O.Box 87 LOD 71100, ISRAEL Phone:+972-8-9186100 int.203 Fax:+972-8-9153101 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: st...@itl.co.il www.itl.co.il - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] AAMI version of 60601-1 3rd ed - requirement for SI Units
Right. Use the clause 4.5 of the standard and give a rationale in the Risk Management file. Steli Loznen, M.Sc.,SM-IEEE Q.A. and Certification Manager Convener of IEC/TC62/SC62A/WG17 I.T.L (Product Testing) Ltd. 1, Bat Sheva St., POB 87 LOD 71100, ISRAEL Tel: 972-8-9153100 Fax: 972-8-9153101 Mobile: 972-54-7245794 E-mail: st...@itl.co.il<mailto:st...@itl.co.il> www.itl.co.il<http://www.itl.co.il> ___ This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. From: Momcilovic, Nick (GE Healthcare) [mailto:nick.momcilo...@ge.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 7:05 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] AAMI version of 60601-1 3rd ed - requirement for SI Units The data must be able to be displayed in SI units but it does not prohibit the equipment to display other units of measure. At least that is my understanding of this requirement. Regards, Nick Momcilovic From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Carl Newton Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:56 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: AAMI version of 60601-1 3rd ed - requirement for SI Units Group, Does anyone have experience with the AAMI version of 60601-1, 3rd edition and clause 7.4.3? This clause requires that measurement parameters be in SI units. I'm working on a therapeutic exercise device which requires patients to enter weight as a step in the setup process. American patients will be befuddled if required to enter kg. Anyone aware of a loophole? I'm working with the EN edition. Thanks, Carl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Date of cessation of 60601-1 edition 2 in EU
Right. Only a clarification: 1 July 2013 in USA is for FDA only. OSHA (for NRTL Mark) have not decided already the date of implementation for the 3rd edition of IEC 60601-1. Steli Loznen, M.Sc.,SM-IEEE Convener of IEC/TC62/SC62A/WG17 Member of IEEE-PSES BoD Q.A. and Certification Manager I.T.L (Product Testing) Ltd. 1, Bat Sheva St., POB 87 LOD 71100, ISRAEL Tel: 972-8-9153100 Fax: 972-8-9153101 Mobile: 972-54-7245794 E-mail: st...@itl.co.il<mailto:st...@itl.co.il> www.itl.co.il<http://www.itl.co.il> ___ This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. From: Momcilovic, Nick (GE Healthcare) [mailto:nick.momcilo...@ge.com] Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 9:05 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [Maybe Phishing] Re: [PSES] Date of cessation of 60601-1 edition 2 in EU Gary, not sure you are going to find anything more clear than what is shown in the OJ for dates. Here is the latest info on 60601 3rd Ed implementation dates that I am aware of: - USA: 30-Jun-2013. Applies to new registrations submitted on or after this date. Does not apply to existing products registered prior to this date. - Canada: 01-Jun-2012 for products under scope of only -1 or 3 years after the date of publication of the 2-xx standard (if applicable), whichever is later. Applies to new registrations submitted on or after this date. Does not apply to existing products registered prior to this date. - EU: 01-Jun-2012 for products under scope of only -1 or the "Date of cessation of presumption of conformity of superseded standard" shown in the OJ for the -2-xx standard (if applicable). Applies to any existing or new product "placed on the market" in the EU on or after that date. - Brazil: 01-Jan-2014. Applies to new registrations & renewals submitted on or after this date. Does not apply to existing products registered prior to this date. - Japan: no formal implementation date yet but they just published their national version (JIS T 0601-1:2012) and begun accepting registrations with 3rd Ed as of 01-Jan-2012 - Korea: no formal implementation date yet but they have started accepting registrations done with 3rd Ed of 60601-1 as of late last year. - China: working on 3rd ed but they are probably still 3-5 years out from implementation. Bottom line, if you want to ship globally, you will need to be compliant to both 2nd & 3rd Ed of 60601 until all countries have accepted 3rd Ed. Regards, Nick From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Morse, William Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 10:07 AM To: McInturff, Gary; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Date of cessation of 60601-1 edition 2 in EU I am not in the office right at the moment otherwise I would dig up the dates but for the EU the date of withdraw was last month for the 2nd edition but for those products that have a particular 2-x standard associated with them that has not been transcribed to the 3rd edition there is an extension of the 2nd. FDA accepts both the 2nd and 3rd editions until 2013 (not sure of the month but it is early 2013) then only the 3rd edition will be a "recognized" standard. Canada follows the EU and Australia has not announced. Bill From: McInturff, Gary [gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:18 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Date of cessation of 60601-1 edition 2 in EU I'm trying to support boss hog just a bit on a product. I'm looking in OJ for the dates of withdrawal for the 2nd edition of the medical safety standard, and I think I can find that, is there anything more clear that just simple says it's can't be used after such and such a date. We're putting something on hold until it finishes a standards change and a bit of a fight, and I'm just trying to put a stake in the vampires heart and just referencing the docopos etc is going to take further explaination for those that don't deal with it all the time. So I'm also looking for a paragraph in plain English (US or EK :) ) Thanks Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer Esterline Interface Technologies Featuring ADVANCED INPUT, MEMTRON, and LRE MEDICAL products 600 W. Wilbur Avenue Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815-9496 Office:208-635-8306 Cell: 509 868 2279 Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X 1238 gary.mcintu...@esterline.com<mailto:brian.s...@esterline.com> www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologies Technology, Innovation, Performance... -
Re: [PSES] Date of cessation of 60601-1 edition 2 in EU
An existent, non revised for 3rd edition, particular standard NOT refer to 2005 edition of the general standard. And this is the issue. If not exist already a revised particular, need to use the "old" particular in which is reference to second edition. When will be enforced the "new" particular will be OK, because in this will be reference to 2005 edition of 60601-1. Steli Loznen, M.Sc.,SM-IEEE Convener of IEC/TC62/SC62A/WG17 Member of IEEE-PSES BoD Q.A. and Certification Manager I.T.L (Product Testing) Ltd. 1, Bat Sheva St., POB 87 LOD 71100, ISRAEL Tel: 972-8-9153100 Fax: 972-8-9153101 Mobile: 972-54-7245794 E-mail: st...@itl.co.il www.itl.co.il ___ This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:24 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Date of cessation of 60601-1 edition 2 in EU In message <8413159162ce294aae14b6a9a2014fac08c5e...@itlltd02.itl.local>, dated Fri, 13 Jul 2012, Steli Loznen writes: >In EU if the particular standard referring to 3rd edition of the >general standard (enforced in 1st of June 2012) was not published yet >or is in the transition time (DOCOPOS - 3 years from publication) the >second edition of IEC 60601-1 continue to be applied. Unless this is a special arrangement for EN 60601, in place of normal CENELEC rules, I don't understand how a standard making a dated reference to EN 60601-1:2012 can be considered to refer instead to an earlier version of EN 60601-1. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Instead of saying that the government is doing too little, too late or too much, too early, say they've got is exactly right, thus throwing them into total confusion. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Date of cessation of 60601-1 edition 2 in EU
Dear all, When a particular standard (IEC 60601-2-x) apply for a specific MEE, this particular standard take priority to the general standard (IEC 60601-1). In EU if the particular standard referring to 3rd edition of the general standard (enforced in 1st of June 2012) was not published yet or is in the transition time (DOCOPOS - 3 years from publication) the second edition of IEC 60601-1 continue to be applied. I hope that the above clarify the issue. Best Regards, Steli Loznen, M.Sc.,SM-IEEE Convener of IEC/TC62/SC62A/WG17 Member of IEEE-PSES BoD Q.A. and Certification Manager I.T.L (Product Testing) Ltd. 1, Bat Sheva St., POB 87 LOD 71100, ISRAEL Tel: 972-8-9153100 Fax: 972-8-9153101 Mobile: 972-54-7245794 E-mail: st...@itl.co.il www.itl.co.il ___ This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 9:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Date of cessation of 60601-1 edition 2 in EU In message , dated Fri, 13 Jul 2012, "McInturff, Gary" writes: >I'm trying to support boss hog just a bit on a product. I'm looking in >OJ for the dates of withdrawal for the 2nd edition of the medical >safety standard, and I think I can find that, is there anything more >clear that just simple says it's can't be used after such and such a >date. We're putting something on hold until it finishes a standards >change and a bit of a fight, and I'm just trying to put a stake in the >vampires heart and just referencing the docopos etc is going to take >further explaination for those that don't deal with it all the time. So >I'm also looking for a paragraph in plain English (US or EK :) ) Thanks > I sent you a joke because I didn't really understand your question. Maybe this will help: If Standard A refers normatively to standard B by an UNDATED reference, then when standard B is updated, you *must* apply the updated version (because the committee responsible for standard A has assumed that any new version of Standard B will still be applicable - not a very safe assumption sometimes). Standard A remains valid until its own dow. If Standard A refers normatively to standard B by a DATED reference, then when standard B is updated, you *must* continue to apply the dated version (because the committee responsible for standard A hasn't checked the new version of Standard B for applicability). Standard A remains valid until its own dow. Maybe that isn't plain English, even the EK (East Kent?) version, but I did warn you that 'simple' is difficult. On the other hand, that may be an answer to a question you didn't ask. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Instead of saying that the government is doing too little, too late or too much, too early, say they've got is exactly right, thus throwing them into total confusion. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] 60601 Severity Level - Permanent impairment
Hi John, Sure you can not find the specified issue on 60601. 60601 specify General Requirements and not deal with particular aspects (Severity levels). For your subject not exist a particular standard in which maybe the severity level can be defined. Your subject can be included in the Risk Management File. Best Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc.,SM-IEEE Q.A. and Certification Manager Member of IEEE-PSES BoD Convener of IEC/TC62/SC62A/WG17 I.T.L (Product Testing) Ltd. 1, Bat Sheva St., POB 87 LOD 71100, ISRAEL Tel: 972-8-9153100 Fax: 972-8-9153101 Mobile: 972-54-7245794 E-mail: st...@itl.co.il<mailto:st...@itl.co.il> www.itl.co.il<http://www.itl.co.il> ___ This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. From: jral...@productsafetyinc.com [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 5:59 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] 60601 Severity Level - Permanent impairment Hi, I cannot find that 60601 (none of them) indicate the difference in severity if you loss hearing in one ear or both. What about losing one finger vs all? Any insight here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. 605 Country Club Drive, Suites I & J Bensenville, IL 60106 P - 630 238-0188 / F - 630 238-0269 1-877-804-3066 jral...@productsafetyinc.com<mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com> http://www.productsafetyinc.com<http://www.productsafetyinc.com/> Although PSC maintains the highest level of virus protection, this e-mail and any attachments should be scanned by your virus protection software. It is the responsibility of the recipient to check that it is virus free. PSC does not accept any responsibility for data loss or systems damage arising in any way from its use. This message is confidential and intended only for the individual to whom or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or addressee, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying, in whole or part, of this message is strictly prohibited. If you believe that you have been sent this message in error, please do not read it. Please immediately reply to sender that you have received this message in error. Then permanently delete all copies of the message. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Steady State Conditions
Hi Jacob, In some testing procedures, the temperature steady state is defined as the status when the variation of the temperature, measured with thermocouple, was less than 1 K/s. Maybe this can help. Best Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE I.T.L (Product Testing) Ltd. Q.A & Certification Manager Convener IEC/TC62/SC62A/MT29 Member of IEEE-PSES BoD 1, Bat Sheva St., P.O.Box 87 LOD 71100, ISRAEL Phone:+972-8-9186100 int.203 Fax:+972-8-9153101 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: st...@itl.co.il www.itl.co.il From: Jacob Gleeson [mailto:jacob.glee...@eu.panasonic.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 12:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Steady State Conditions Unfortunately not. From: John Woodgate mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk>> To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>> Date: 11/01/2012 09:51 Subject: Re: [PSES] Steady State Conditions In message mailto:of830d029f.67d294e3-on80257982.0032cbc6-80257982.00341...@meluk.co.uk>>, dated Wed, 11 Jan 2012, jacob.glee...@eu.panasonic.com<mailto:jacob.glee...@eu.panasonic.com> writes: >Does anyone know of a clear definition of steady state conditions when >conducting heating tests? I have checked a number of 60335 series part >2 standards and came up blank for a definition:-( It's probably in Part 1. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald: mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
