Dear Scott, The "National Differences" refer to particular requirements for a country or a group of counties (i.e. EU) included in an IEC standard when the standard is adopted by these county or group of countries. The ND need to be public declared in the IECEE site by the NCBs part of CB Scheme. These ND up-date the standard requirements accordingly. You are correct by specifying " If the applicant indicates the destined market, the testing house cannot avoid the testing to national differences and deviations" and for this reason the test report need to refer to the specific standards from the indicated country or group of countries. Sometime the testing houses not cover in the correct way the specified ND or not refer as needs to the local standards. If the applicant do not specify the target markets for his product, the testing houses provide the test report only according to IEC (the case of CB Scheme). Best Regards, Steli
Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Member of BoD IEEE-PSES Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org -----Original Message----- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 2:49 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonized standard withdrawn Dear Steli, Thanks for your advice! Do National Differences mean National conditions and National deviations normally in Annex of the standard? How can a testing house ignore the National Differences? I dare to guest the applicants may not decide where the goods to be sold when applies for the testing. Thus the testing house either does not test the national differences or test all national differences. As a commercial testing house, testing them all will increase the testing charges reducing their competitive edge on the market. If the applicant indicates the destined market, the testing house cannot avoid the testing to national differences and deviations. The buyer must be careful to accept the supplier’s evidence when they receive those testing report and see if it fits for purpose. Regards, Scott On 22/7/2017, 6:01 PM, "Steli Loznen" <rshap...@post.tau.ac.il> wrote: Dear Scott, In addition to the Mr. Woodgate comment, please be informed that in the frame of the CB Scheme need to pay attention to "National Differences" on IEC standards. This is an important issue which not all time is addressed by the testing houses which issue the CB Test Reports. Best Regards, Steli Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Member of BoG IEEE-PSES Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. Tel Aviv 6436719 Israel Tel:+972-3-6912668 Fax:+972-3-6913988 Mobile:+972-54-7245794 e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org -----Original Message----- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 11:54 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn Dear John, It is a good point to note! Thanks and regards, Scott On 22/7/2017, 4:37 PM, "John Woodgate" <jmw1...@btinternet.com> wrote: The EN and the IEC are *never* identical, especially now that the ENs have to include a succession of 'Z' annexes. Large parts of the technical content may well be identical, but the ENs include a lot of European 'baggage', which can't safely be ignored. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 22 July 2017 09:13 To: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn Hi John, I notice the CB reports that they will conduct the test according to IEC standard and the standards for destined market, i.e. EN for EU. As usual, EN standards are derived from IEC standard. If the IEC standard is listed below the EN standard without indication of modified, the IEC compliance report can be used as self-declaration of conformity to the directive due to the fact that both EN and IEC standards are identical. Regards, Scott On 22/7/2017, 2:24 PM, "John Woodgate" <jmw1...@btinternet.com> wrote: That isn't a 'listing' of the IEC standards, it's an indication of what the EN was derived from. You can see that, because some of the IEC standards are described as '(modified)'. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 22 July 2017 03:53 To: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn Dear John, The attached HS list does have IEC standards. Do they have other meaning that I might incorrectly interpret it? Thanks and regards, Scott On 22/7/2017, 1:08 AM, "John Woodgate" <jmw1...@btinternet.com> wrote: IEC standards are rarely, if ever, notified in the OJ, because they are not harmonized so all EU/CENELEC countries do not have to accept them. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 21 July 2017 17:50 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn Hi Durrer, Both IEC and EN 60335-2-24 were in the harmonised standard list of OJEU before they were removed. Regarding the national standard BS EN 60335-2-24 should be technically identical with EN 60335-2-24. Although it is still valid in BSI website, the HS removal is due to UK objection. It does not make sense using BS EN 60335-2-24 to declare the compliance with LVD. It is good suggestion to take care this known issue in risk assessment required in LVD. As this issue is being discussed in IEC to EN standard conversion. For the time being, the latest IEC A2 amendment seems a reasonable reference to address the fire risk. Regards, Scott On 21/7/2017, 4:16 PM, "Dürrer Bernd" <bernd.duer...@wilo.com> wrote: Dear Scott, The removal of the reference to EN 60335-2-24 from the OJEU means that compliance with this standard does not provide the presumption of conformity as defined in Article 12 of LVD. Actually, the nationally adopted versions of this standard are still valid (e.g. BS EN 60335-2-24, https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030236214). As IEC 60335-2-24 is not listed as an international standard in the OJEU, I do not see any advantage in declaring CE compliance with the IEC version, especially as the objection raised by the UK against the use of highly flammable materials would also apply to fridges compliant with IEC 60335-2-24. As risk analysis (preferably according to CENELEC Guide 32) is a mandatory part of the technical documentation (LVD, Annex III, Module A, 2.), the manufacturer is bound to consider the findings in UK's objection and to avoid the use of such materials even if they are compliant with the IEC/EN standard. Please be aware that the obligations of the manufacturer (LVD, Art. 6) also include the monitoring of products already in the market and to take corrective measures if it is found that a product presents a risk. Regarding a new product, you may still refer to EN 60335-2-24, but it will not give you presumption of conformity. With the CE DoC you declare that your electrical equipment provides "a high level of protection of health and safety of persons, and of domestic animals and property" (LVD, Art. 1), using the standard as a technical means to demonstrate compliance, but considering also risks that are not adequately addressed in the standard. Kind regards, Bernd Von: Wiseman, Josh UTC CCS [mailto:joshua.e.wise...@carrier.utc.com] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. Juli 2017 21:31 An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Betreff: Re: [PSES] Harmonised standard withdrawn Scott, You can continue to use EN 60335-1 and reference IEC 60335-2-24 to show compliance. Just because the EN is withdrawn doesn’t mean the IEC is no longer valid. Knowing now about the plastic issue, maybe you do some other evaluation method for it to ensure it’s safe to be used in that application. Josh Wiseman Senior Compliance Engineer Taylor Company Joshua Wiseman Senior Compliance Engineer 750 N. Blackhawk Blvd. | Rockton, IL 61072 Office: 815.624.5628 | Cell: 815.262.5517 | Fax: 815.624.5181 http://www.taylor-company.com/ | https://twitter.com/TheTaylorCo | http://www.youtube.com/TheTaylorCompany ----------------------------------------------- This message is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, copy, use or circulate this message. Instead, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and then delete it from your system. Internet communications are not secure. While every reasonable effort has been made to ensure that this communication has not been tampered with, Taylor Company cannot be responsible for alterations made to the contents of this message without its express consent, and Taylor Company accepts no responsibility for changes to or interception of this message after it was sent or for any damage to the recipient's systems or data caused by this message or its attachments. Opinions, conclusions and other information contained in this message that do not relate to the official business of Taylor Company shall be understood as neither given n or e ndorsed by Taylor Co mpany. Please also note that messages to or from Taylor Company may be monitored to ensure compliance with Taylor Company policies and standards and to protect our business. ----------------------------------------------- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 9:38 AM To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [External] [PSES] Harmonised standard withdrawn The harmonised standard EN 60335-2-24 is removed from the harmonised standard list on OJEU. The common compliance route of self-declaration of conformity to LVD using harmonised standard becomes lost. What are other options to demonstrating the compliance with LVD? Thanks and regards, Scott - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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