Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

[John Woodgate]

It isn't appropriate to refer to the ICNIRP publications. The correct 
reference (for Europe) is to EN 50527-1 and EN 50527-2-1. Unfortunately, 
these are not available free of charge. However, they are available at 
reasonable prices (in English) at https://www.evs.ee/shop.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-07-06 09:52, Dürrer Bernd wrote:

Hello Andy,

Thank you for pointing out the ICNIRP limits: Actually, I recently had a 
request concerning a service technician with a pacemaker and exposure to static 
magnetic fields when handling permanent magnet rotors.
However, when I check ICNIRP resources, I do not find any publication to 
justify higher limits. On the contrary, the “ICNIRP GUIDELINES ON LIMITS OF 
EXPOSURE TO STATIC MAGNETIC FIELDS” 
(https://www.icnirp.org/cms/upload/publications/ICNIRPstatgdl.pdf) contain the 
statement:

“Electromagnetic interference from low-intensity static magnetic fields has been 
observed to affect the operation of pacemakers, particularly those with magnetic 
switches, and other types of medical electronic devices, including cardiac 
defibrillators, hormone infusion pumps (e.g., for insulin), neuromuscular 
stimulation devices (e.g., for the sphincter muscle of the bladder), 
neurostimulators, and electronically operated prosthetic devices (e.g., for the 
limbs and inner ear). In general, the operation of these devices is not adversely 
affected by static magnetic fields below 0.5 mT."

The "ICNIRP GUIDELINES FOR LIMITING EXPOSURE TO TIME-VARYING ELECTRIC AND MAGNETIC 
FIELDS (1 Hz TO 100 kHz)" 
(https://www.icnirp.org/cms/upload/publications/ICNIRPLFgdl.pdf) contain the following 
statement:

"Compliance with the present guidelines may not necessarily preclude interference 
with, or effects on, medical devices such as metallic prostheses, cardiac pacemakers and 
implanted defibrillators and cochlear implants. Interference with pacemakers may occur at 
levels below the recommended reference levels. Advice on avoiding these problems is 
beyond the scope of the present document but is available elsewhere (IEC 2005b)." 
(IEC2005b refers to IEC 60601-1-2)

Kind regards,

Bernd






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[PSES] AW: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

[Dürrer Bernd]

Hello Andy,

Thank you for pointing out the ICNIRP limits: Actually, I recently had a 
request concerning a service technician with a pacemaker and exposure to static 
magnetic fields when handling permanent magnet rotors.
However, when I check ICNIRP resources, I do not find any publication to 
justify higher limits. On the contrary, the “ICNIRP GUIDELINES ON LIMITS OF 
EXPOSURE TO STATIC MAGNETIC FIELDS” 
(https://www.icnirp.org/cms/upload/publications/ICNIRPstatgdl.pdf) contain the 
statement:

“Electromagnetic interference from low-intensity static magnetic fields has 
been observed to affect the operation of pacemakers, particularly those with 
magnetic switches, and other types of medical electronic devices, including 
cardiac defibrillators, hormone infusion pumps (e.g., for insulin), 
neuromuscular stimulation devices (e.g., for the sphincter muscle of the 
bladder), neurostimulators, and electronically operated prosthetic devices 
(e.g., for the limbs and inner ear). In general, the operation of these devices 
is not adversely affected by static magnetic fields below 0.5 mT."

The "ICNIRP GUIDELINES FOR LIMITING EXPOSURE TO TIME-VARYING ELECTRIC AND 
MAGNETIC FIELDS (1 Hz TO 100 kHz)" 
(https://www.icnirp.org/cms/upload/publications/ICNIRPLFgdl.pdf) contain the 
following statement:

"Compliance with the present guidelines may not necessarily preclude 
interference with, or effects on, medical devices such as metallic prostheses, 
cardiac pacemakers and implanted defibrillators and cochlear implants. 
Interference with pacemakers may occur at levels below the recommended 
reference levels. Advice on avoiding these problems is beyond the scope of the 
present document but is available elsewhere (IEC 2005b)." (IEC2005b refers to 
IEC 60601-1-2)

Kind regards,

Bernd



Von: McCallum, Andy 
Gesendet: Freitag, 6. Juli 2018 09:41
An: Dürrer Bernd ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Betreff: RE: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

Bernd

Pacemakers have DC static magnetic field limits as low as 0.5mT as mentioned in 
the EU EMF directive. Which is a level encountered in many environments not 
least DC Trams and railways. The fact that we don’t see people with pacemakers 
staggering around the underground suggests this limit has been set far too low 
(most likely when pacemakers where first introduced). The ICNIRP public 
exposure limit is400mT which is much more realistic and only encountered 
rarely.

Contacted a number of UK government agencies regarding this and the most honest 
verbal response was we will get rid of that limit after Brexit.

Also note a number of pacemakers are now available which are safe to wear in 
MRI scanners operating at 7Teslas.

Andy

From: Dürrer Bernd [mailto:bernd.duer...@wilo.com]
Sent: 06 July 2018 08:24
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] AW: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

Hi Doug,

I assume that due to your good health you don’t have a pacemaker or any other 
electronic medical implants that might be affected by EM field exposure. As 
protection and shielding options for such implants are limited (except by the 
surrounding tissue), the remaining other option to reduce the risk of 
malfunction is to limit EM fields.

Stay in the best of health and have a nice weekend,

Bernd

Von: Doug Smith <mailto:d...@emcesd.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Juli 2018 20:56
An: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Betreff: Re: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

Hi Michael and the group,

With the exception tissue heating generated by some sources at very high 
frequencies, I wonder if the EM field exposure worries today are a bit 
overblown. I started my experiments in high voltage  (100,000+ Volts, and NOT 
static electricity) around age 13 and by age 14 was regularly immersing myself 
in 10,000+V/m, 300 kHz fields. It was fun, heating up screw driver blades from 
induction heating, lighting incandescent light bulbs (as well as fluorescent 
tubes) without wires, and more. About 600 Watts of RF energy was concentrated 
in the relatively small space I was in and I was uninjured! My kids all have 
two arms, two legs, and one head and I am still here almost 60 years later and 
healthier than 90% of adults of any age from 18 on. Some of my friends say this 
explains a lot about me (frying brain cells) though.

I realize this is only one case, but have had a lot of high energy RF exposure 
throughout my life. Such as the field in my dorm room from my amateur radio 
transmitter being so strong that the fluorescent tubes in the room lit up with 
no power and blinked with Morse code. I had to remove the tubes from their 
fixtures and cover with towels so my roommate could sleep.

Still here,
Doug



On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 16:27:12 +0100, Michael Derby wrote:
It’s not quite an “unintentional radiator” but if you had a wireless charger 
which did not contain any communication (e.g.,

[PSES] AW: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

[Dürrer Bernd]

Hi Doug,

I assume that due to your good health you don’t have a pacemaker or any other 
electronic medical implants that might be affected by EM field exposure. As 
protection and shielding options for such implants are limited (except by the 
surrounding tissue), the remaining other option to reduce the risk of 
malfunction is to limit EM fields.

Stay in the best of health and have a nice weekend,

Bernd

Von: Doug Smith 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Juli 2018 20:56
An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Betreff: Re: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

Hi Michael and the group,

With the exception tissue heating generated by some sources at very high 
frequencies, I wonder if the EM field exposure worries today are a bit 
overblown. I started my experiments in high voltage  (100,000+ Volts, and NOT 
static electricity) around age 13 and by age 14 was regularly immersing myself 
in 10,000+V/m, 300 kHz fields. It was fun, heating up screw driver blades from 
induction heating, lighting incandescent light bulbs (as well as fluorescent 
tubes) without wires, and more. About 600 Watts of RF energy was concentrated 
in the relatively small space I was in and I was uninjured! My kids all have 
two arms, two legs, and one head and I am still here almost 60 years later and 
healthier than 90% of adults of any age from 18 on. Some of my friends say this 
explains a lot about me (frying brain cells) though.

I realize this is only one case, but have had a lot of high energy RF exposure 
throughout my life. Such as the field in my dorm room from my amateur radio 
transmitter being so strong that the fluorescent tubes in the room lit up with 
no power and blinked with Morse code. I had to remove the tubes from their 
fixtures and cover with towels so my roommate could sleep.

Still here,
Doug
[https://hostingemail.xo.com/api/storage/d...@emcesd.com/signatures/images/2476c205-f457-4395-87cc-7aa199c734f2]


On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 16:27:12 +0100, Michael Derby wrote:


It’s not quite an “unintentional radiator” but if you had a wireless charger 
which did not contain any communication (e.g., a dumb charging signal without 
handshaking),  then it would come within the scope of the EMCD and the LVD (not 
the RED), and RF Exposure would therefore be an issue under the LVD.

Michael.


From: McCallum, Andy [mailto:andy.mccal...@mottmac.com]
Sent: 05 July 2018 15:33
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

Be surprised if any LVD could cause EMF large enough to pose a danger to Human 
Health. Intentional transmitters maybe, a rare beast to create those levels 
unintentionally at less than 1000V.

Andy

From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: 05 July 2018 10:28
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields


It applies to any LVD product, but there is a flow chart that shows that a 
simple assessment is possible if the product has no reasonable likelihood of 
producing sufficiently strong EMF.

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates 
www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-07-05 10:09, Amund Westin wrote:
EN62311 is listed in OJ and a harmonized LVD standard.
Does EN62311apply to any LVD product or only products containing radio 
transmitters?


Best regards
Amund
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[PSES] AW: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

[Dürrer Bernd]

Hi Amund,

the answer can be found in the scope of the standard: "This International 
Standard applies to electronic and electrical equipment for which no dedicated 
product- or product family standard regarding human exposure to electromagnetic 
fields applies. [...] NOTE This standard is intended to cover both intentional 
and non-intentional radiators. If the equipment complies with the requirements 
in another relevant standard, e.g. EN 50371 covering low power equipment, then 
the requirements of this standard (IEC 62311) are considered to be met and the 
application of this standard to that equipment is not necessary. See also 
Clause 7.2."
https://webstore.iec.ch/preview/info_iec62311%7Bed1.0%7Db.pdf

As non-intentional radiators are in the scope, it applies to any LVD product, 
unless a dedicated product standard applies.

Kind regards,

Bernd

Von: Amund Westin 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Juli 2018 11:10
An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Betreff: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

EN62311 is listed in OJ and a harmonized LVD standard.
Does EN62311apply to any LVD product or only products containing radio 
transmitters?


Best regards
Amund
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