Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 v2.1.1 Receiver Blocking

2016-12-12 Thread Charlie Blackham 
Grace

As you’re probably aware, EN 302 195-2 v1.1.1 is the R version whereas EN 
302 195 v2.1.1 is the RED version.

The R Directive required (that) “all essential radio test suites must be 
carried out” and these were defined in the Harmonised Standards (or could be 
specified by a Notified Body)
The Radio Equipment Directive does not contain this same requirement, so the 
standards aren’t structured in quite the same way.

If there is no limit for a certain category of device in a particular test, 
then you could consider that you cannot fail the requirement and so comply 
without test. You may however wish to test your receiver anyway to understand 
its capabilities in case there are future changes to the standard that remove 
the option for Class 3 receivers (this is already planned for some other 
standards)

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
LinkedIn: 
uk.linkedin.com/in/charlieblackham/<http://uk.linkedin.com/in/charlieblackham/>
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com<http://www.sulisconsultants.com/>
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247



From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com]
Sent: 12 December 2016 16:36
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 v2.1.1 Receiver Blocking

Dear Members,


Could you please comment if testing of receiver blocking is required for a 
Class 3 receiver per ETSI EN 302 195 v2.1.1 (the latest version of the 
standard)?  There is no limits for Class 3 receivers.  Annex A lists Receiver 
Blocking as Unconditional Applicable.



For reference.  Clause 4.3.1 of ETSI EN 302 195-2 v1.1.1 clearly indicates 
blocking is for Class 1 and Class 2 receivers.



Thank you very much for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.



Best regards,

Grace Lin
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[PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 v2.1.1 Receiver Blocking

2016-12-12 Thread Grace Lin 
Dear Members,

Could you please comment if testing of receiver blocking is required for a
Class 3 receiver per ETSI EN 302 195 v2.1.1 (the latest version of the
standard)?  There is no limits for Class 3 receivers.  Annex A lists
Receiver Blocking as Unconditional Applicable.


For reference.  Clause 4.3.1 of ETSI EN 302 195-2 v1.1.1 clearly indicates
blocking is for Class 1 and Class 2 receivers.


Thank you very much for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.


Best regards,

Grace Lin

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Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

2016-11-03 Thread Charlie Blackham 
Peter

RED may be used now, but so can R for equipment that is within scope of 
RED. The key article is
Article 48
Transitional provisions
Member States shall not impede, for the aspects covered by this Directive, the 
making available on the market or putting into service of radio equipment 
covered by this Directive which is in conformity with the relevant Union 
harmonisation legislation applicable before 13 June 2016 and which was placed 
on the market before 13 June 2017.

Please see explanation of this in  Application of Directives 2014/53/EU, 
2014/35/EU and 2014/30/EU, 
http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/16681/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/pdf

Regards
Charlie

From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com]
Sent: 03 November 2016 17:54
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

Charlie –

Article 49
Transposition 1.
Member States shall adopt and publish, by 12 June 2016, the laws, regulations 
and administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive. They 
shall forthwith communicate the text of those measures to the Commission. They 
shall apply those measures from 13 June 2016.

Article 50
Repeal
Directive 1999/5/EC is repealed with effect from 13 June 2016.

RED is effective now. Unless I missed something deferring it’s adoption.


Peter Tarver

From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 09:00
The RED doesn’t need to be used until next June, so I would wait as it may well 
be published in the next listing which is likely to be within next 2 months.

Regards
Charlie

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Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

2016-11-03 Thread Peter Tarver 
Charlie –

Article 49
Transposition 1.
Member States shall adopt and publish, by 12 June 2016, the laws, regulations 
and administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive. They 
shall forthwith communicate the text of those measures to the Commission. They 
shall apply those measures from 13 June 2016.

Article 50
Repeal
Directive 1999/5/EC is repealed with effect from 13 June 2016.

RED is effective now. Unless I missed something deferring it’s adoption.


Peter Tarver

From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 09:00

The RED doesn’t need to be used until next June, so I would wait as it may well 
be published in the next listing which is likely to be within next 2 months.

Regards
Charlie

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Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

2016-11-03 Thread Cortland Richmond 

On 11/3/2016 3:36 AM, John Woodgate wrote:
I think ETSI is justified in resisting the Commission's bid to insist 
that 'a standard is only harmonized if we say so'.


*Someone* has missed the astounding concept that "harmony" and 
"harmonize" are English words ANYONE can use.  And that one should 
indicate with whom or what harmony is to be achieved.


sarc/ I wonder how long the EU bureaucracy's definition of "is" runs. 
And gets to use it. /sarc



Cortland Richmond

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Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

2016-11-03 Thread John Woodgate 
See my previous post about 'hi-jacking'. I think ETSI is justified in resisting 
the Commission's bid to insist that 'a standard is only harmonized if we say 
so'.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
 <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and 
Associates Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl] 
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2016 7:25 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1
 
>Harmonised Standard covering the essential requirements of article 3.2 of the 
>Directive 2014/53/EU
This phrase can mean only one thing: meant to be used as a Harmonized standard 
in the sense of the directive as OJ publication.
ETSI should have written : "Intended to be harmonized….", as it is not the 
standard that
could claim the harmonization property, but the  OJ publication only.
The discussion if a standard is harmonized in any other way is not relevant. 
Standards are by definition
a harmonisation (in the generic sense)  instrument.
Regards,
Ing. Gert Gremmen
Approvals manager

 
+ ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment
+ Independent Consultancy Services
+ Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
 according to EC-directives:
- Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
- Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
- Medical Devices 93/42/EC
- Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC
+ Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing
+ Education
Web:www.cetest.nl <http://www.cetest.nl>  (English) 
Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
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From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday 2 November 2016 15:39
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1
Dear Members,
The title on the cover page of the ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1 states:
"
Short Range Devices (SRD);
Ultra Low Power Active Medical Implants (ULP-AMI) and accessories (ULP-AMI-P) 
operating in the frequency range 9 kHz to 315 kHz
Harmonised Standard covering the essential requirements of article 3.2 of the 
Directive 2014/53/EU
"
This standard has not been published on OJ (as October 14, 2016).  Can a 
Declaration of Conformity list this standard to demonstrate compliance with the 
essential requirements?
Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.
Best regards,
Grace Lin
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Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

2016-11-03 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen 
>Harmonised Standard covering the essential requirements of article 3.2 of the 
>Directive 2014/53/EU

This phrase can mean only one thing: meant to be used as a Harmonized standard 
in the sense of the directive as OJ publication.

ETSI should have written : "Intended to be harmonized….", as it is not the 
standard that
could claim the harmonization property, but the  OJ publication only.

The discussion if a standard is harmonized in any other way is not relevant. 
Standards are by definition
a harmonisation (in the generic sense)  instrument.

Regards,

Ing. Gert Gremmen
Approvals manager



+ ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment
+ Independent Consultancy Services
+ Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
 according to EC-directives:
- Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
- Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
- Medical Devices 93/42/EC
- Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC
+ Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing
+ Education

Web:www.cetest.nl (English) 
Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
---
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From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday 2 November 2016 15:39
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

Dear Members,

The title on the cover page of the ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1 states:

"
Short Range Devices (SRD);
Ultra Low Power Active Medical Implants (ULP-AMI) and accessories (ULP-AMI-P) 
operating in the frequency range 9 kHz to 315 kHz
Harmonised Standard covering the essential requirements of article 3.2 of the 
Directive 2014/53/EU
"

This standard has not been published on OJ (as October 14, 2016).  Can a 
Declaration of Conformity list this standard to demonstrate compliance with the 
essential requirements?

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,
Grace Lin

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Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

2016-11-02 Thread John Woodgate 
That's how it should be, and was, but the Commission insists that a standard 
isn't harmonized *until* it is listed.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
 <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and 
Associates Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: dward [mailto:dw...@pctestlab.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 5:25 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1
 
Michael make an excellent point.  A standard is not harmonized because it is in 
the OJ.  It gets in the OJ because it is harmonized; and presumption of 
compliance to a directive is only able to be done when an already harmonized 
standard is listed in the OJ.
 
​
Dennis Ward
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From: Michael Derby [mailto:micha...@acbcert.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 8:28 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1
 
Hi Grace,
 
Are you asking because the word “Harmonised” appears in the title of the 
standard?
 
No, it does not mean that it can be used for presumption of conformity to the 
RED.
 
Basically…..
 
When you work at ETSI, the basic document template you start with… has that 
wording in the title.
You work on the standard (as a Draft) and then it is finally voted and 
published.   
When published, it is a “Harmonised Standard” because people agree it is a good 
standard.
 
The next step is for the EU Commission to decide if it is suitable to 
demonstrate presumption of conformity to the EU Directive (in this case, the 
RED).   If they think so, then it is added to the OJ.
 
When (if) the standard appears on the OJ, then it does provide presumption of 
conformity (if you fully, correctly, test to it; and pass)
 
Just because it has the word “Harmonised” on the front page, does not mean it 
is in the OJ.
 
 
Actually this is an interesting little thing here.   Often, many of us (myself 
included) will say things like  “Is that standard harmonised yet?” or “I used 
the Harmonised standard”.   But, strictly speaking, that is not great 
terminology.
What we really mean is:  “Is the standard harmonised and listed on the Official 
Journal yet?”
Technically speaking, a standard can be “Harmonised” when it has been voted and 
finally published.
It is a harmonised standard which is actually listed on the Official Journal, 
which provides the presumption of conformity.
 
 
Thanks,
 
Michael.
 
 
 
From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 02 November 2016 14:39
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1
 
Dear Members,
 
The title on the cover page of the ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1 states:
 
"
Short Range Devices (SRD);
Ultra Low Power Active Medical Implants (ULP-AMI) and accessories (ULP-AMI-P) 
operating in the frequency range 9 kHz to 315 kHz
Harmonised Standard covering the essential requirements of article 3.2 of the 
Directive 2014/53/EU
"
 
This standard has not been published on OJ (as October 14, 2016).  Can a 
Declaration of Conformity list this standard to demonstrate compliance with the 
essential requirements?
 
Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.
 
Best regards,
Grace Lin
 
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Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

2016-11-02 Thread John Woodgate 
In fact, the Commission hi-jacked the term 'harmonized' from the original 
meaning ' when it has been voted and finally published [as an EN]' to mean 
'published in the OJ'. 
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
 <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and 
Associates Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: Michael Derby [mailto:micha...@acbcert.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 3:28 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1
 
Hi Grace,
 
Are you asking because the word “Harmonised” appears in the title of the 
standard?
 
No, it does not mean that it can be used for presumption of conformity to the 
RED.
 
Basically…..
 
When you work at ETSI, the basic document template you start with… has that 
wording in the title.
You work on the standard (as a Draft) and then it is finally voted and 
published.   
When published, it is a “Harmonised Standard” because people agree it is a good 
standard.
 
The next step is for the EU Commission to decide if it is suitable to 
demonstrate presumption of conformity to the EU Directive (in this case, the 
RED).   If they think so, then it is added to the OJ.
 
When (if) the standard appears on the OJ, then it does provide presumption of 
conformity (if you fully, correctly, test to it; and pass)
 
Just because it has the word “Harmonised” on the front page, does not mean it 
is in the OJ.
 
 
Actually this is an interesting little thing here.   Often, many of us (myself 
included) will say things like  “Is that standard harmonised yet?” or “I used 
the Harmonised standard”.   But, strictly speaking, that is not great 
terminology.
What we really mean is:  “Is the standard harmonised and listed on the Official 
Journal yet?”
Technically speaking, a standard can be “Harmonised” when it has been voted and 
finally published.
It is a harmonised standard which is actually listed on the Official Journal, 
which provides the presumption of conformity.
 
 
Thanks,
 
Michael.
 
 
 
From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 02 November 2016 14:39
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1
 
Dear Members,
 
The title on the cover page of the ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1 states:
 
"
Short Range Devices (SRD);
Ultra Low Power Active Medical Implants (ULP-AMI) and accessories (ULP-AMI-P) 
operating in the frequency range 9 kHz to 315 kHz
Harmonised Standard covering the essential requirements of article 3.2 of the 
Directive 2014/53/EU
"
 
This standard has not been published on OJ (as October 14, 2016).  Can a 
Declaration of Conformity list this standard to demonstrate compliance with the 
essential requirements?
 
Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.
 
Best regards,
Grace Lin
 
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For po

Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

2016-11-02 Thread dward 
Michael make an excellent point.  A standard is not harmonized because it is in 
the OJ.  It gets in the OJ because it is harmonized; and presumption of 
compliance to a directive is only able to be done when an already harmonized 
standard is listed in the OJ.

 

​

Dennis Ward

This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST 
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or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect.  Thank you.

 

From: Michael Derby [mailto:micha...@acbcert.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 8:28 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

 

Hi Grace,

 

Are you asking because the word “Harmonised” appears in the title of the 
standard?

 

No, it does not mean that it can be used for presumption of conformity to the 
RED.

 

Basically…..

 

When you work at ETSI, the basic document template you start with… has that 
wording in the title.

You work on the standard (as a Draft) and then it is finally voted and 
published.   

When published, it is a “Harmonised Standard” because people agree it is a good 
standard.

 

The next step is for the EU Commission to decide if it is suitable to 
demonstrate presumption of conformity to the EU Directive (in this case, the 
RED).   If they think so, then it is added to the OJ.

 

When (if) the standard appears on the OJ, then it does provide presumption of 
conformity (if you fully, correctly, test to it; and pass)

 

Just because it has the word “Harmonised” on the front page, does not mean it 
is in the OJ.

 

 

Actually this is an interesting little thing here.   Often, many of us (myself 
included) will say things like  “Is that standard harmonised yet?” or “I used 
the Harmonised standard”.   But, strictly speaking, that is not great 
terminology.

What we really mean is:  “Is the standard harmonised and listed on the Official 
Journal yet?”

Technically speaking, a standard can be “Harmonised” when it has been voted and 
finally published.

It is a harmonised standard which is actually listed on the Official Journal, 
which provides the presumption of conformity.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Michael.

 

 

 

From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 02 November 2016 14:39
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

 

Dear Members,

 

The title on the cover page of the ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1 states:

 

"

Short Range Devices (SRD);

Ultra Low Power Active Medical Implants (ULP-AMI) and accessories (ULP-AMI-P) 
operating in the frequency range 9 kHz to 315 kHz

Harmonised Standard covering the essential requirements of article 3.2 of the 
Directive 2014/53/EU

"

 

This standard has not been published on OJ (as October 14, 2016).  Can a 
Declaration of Conformity list this standard to demonstrate compliance with the 
essential requirements?

 

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Best regards,

Grace Lin

 

-


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Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

2016-11-02 Thread Charlie Blackham 
Grace

A Notified Body opinion is required until the standard is listed in the OJ.

According to the ETSI work program, 
https://portal.etsi.org/webapp/workProgram/Report_Schedule.asp?WKI_ID=46535, 
ETSI were expecting it to be published in the OJ on 23rd September, but it 
hasn’t been yet.

The RED doesn’t need to be used until next June, so I would wait as it may well 
be published in the next listing which is likely to be within next 2 months.

Regards
Charlie

From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com]
Sent: 02 November 2016 14:39
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

Dear Members,

The title on the cover page of the ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1 states:

"
Short Range Devices (SRD);
Ultra Low Power Active Medical Implants (ULP-AMI) and accessories (ULP-AMI-P) 
operating in the frequency range 9 kHz to 315 kHz
Harmonised Standard covering the essential requirements of article 3.2 of the 
Directive 2014/53/EU
"

This standard has not been published on OJ (as October 14, 2016).  Can a 
Declaration of Conformity list this standard to demonstrate compliance with the 
essential requirements?

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,
Grace Lin

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Re: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

2016-11-02 Thread Michael Derby 
Hi Grace,

 

Are you asking because the word “Harmonised” appears in the title of the 
standard?

 

No, it does not mean that it can be used for presumption of conformity to the 
RED.

 

Basically…..

 

When you work at ETSI, the basic document template you start with… has that 
wording in the title.

You work on the standard (as a Draft) and then it is finally voted and 
published.   

When published, it is a “Harmonised Standard” because people agree it is a good 
standard.

 

The next step is for the EU Commission to decide if it is suitable to 
demonstrate presumption of conformity to the EU Directive (in this case, the 
RED).   If they think so, then it is added to the OJ.

 

When (if) the standard appears on the OJ, then it does provide presumption of 
conformity (if you fully, correctly, test to it; and pass)

 

Just because it has the word “Harmonised” on the front page, does not mean it 
is in the OJ.

 

 

Actually this is an interesting little thing here.   Often, many of us (myself 
included) will say things like  “Is that standard harmonised yet?” or “I used 
the Harmonised standard”.   But, strictly speaking, that is not great 
terminology.

What we really mean is:  “Is the standard harmonised and listed on the Official 
Journal yet?”

Technically speaking, a standard can be “Harmonised” when it has been voted and 
finally published.

It is a harmonised standard which is actually listed on the Official Journal, 
which provides the presumption of conformity.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Michael.

 

 

 

From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 02 November 2016 14:39
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

 

Dear Members,

 

The title on the cover page of the ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1 states:

 

"

Short Range Devices (SRD);

Ultra Low Power Active Medical Implants (ULP-AMI) and accessories (ULP-AMI-P) 
operating in the frequency range 9 kHz to 315 kHz

Harmonised Standard covering the essential requirements of article 3.2 of the 
Directive 2014/53/EU

"

 

This standard has not been published on OJ (as October 14, 2016).  Can a 
Declaration of Conformity list this standard to demonstrate compliance with the 
essential requirements?

 

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Best regards,

Grace Lin

 

-


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[PSES] ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1

2016-11-02 Thread Grace Lin 
Dear Members,

The title on the cover page of the ETSI EN 302 195 V2.1.1 states:

"
Short Range Devices (SRD);
Ultra Low Power Active Medical Implants (ULP-AMI) and accessories
(ULP-AMI-P) operating in the frequency range 9 kHz to 315 kHz
Harmonised Standard covering the essential requirements of article 3.2 of
the Directive 2014/53/EU
"

This standard has not been published on OJ (as October 14, 2016).  Can a
Declaration of Conformity list this standard to demonstrate compliance with
the essential requirements?

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,
Grace Lin

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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