Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED
Hi Michael, Thanks for your reply! Yes, it is a bit difficult in understanding the said issues. Try to view the said issues from manufacturer’s point of view and it may be easier to communicate the requirements with them. For example, if the manufacturer quotes -6 dBm +/- 3 dBm. In case the market surveillance finds a sample on the market failed to meet the rated power and permissible limits. Can they determine the product to be incompliance with RED? Regards, Scott From: Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com> Date: Thursday, 20 April 2017 at 5:25 PM To: 'Scott Xe' <scott...@gmail.com>, <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED Hi Scott, I think Charlie already answered this, but the “20 dBm” is the limit for 2.4 GHz WLAN and BT, as stated in the spectrum allocations and then again in the test standard (EN 300 328). Each type of band and product will have its own limit. Stating “<20 dBm” would just be reminding the market surveillance of something they already know. They could read the standard or spectrum allocation and already know that information. I think they want to know the actual rated power of the transmitter they have in their hands. As Charlie asked, it seems unclear what exactly you’re asking. Sorry for my confusion! Michael. From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 18 April 2017 14:53 To: Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED Dear Michael, Thanks for your useful example of WiFi devices! The permissible limit is 20 dBm or 100 mW. Where can we find it for different type of products? Can you shed light why <20 dBm is considered useless. That is the design to allow for this type of products. Each designer can fully utilise the allowable power for optimising the performance of the product. I agree on rated power for each product to be quoted. Did you mean the tolerance +/- 1 dB is subject to the upper limit and lower limit of mass production. Each product may vary depending on the complexity of the product. What are about Bluetooth devices? I have learnt the permissible limit is 13 dBm or 20 mW but did not find the reference. However I read a test report of EN 62479 on a Bluetooth speaker. It was measured max E.I.R.P. = -7.9 dBm or 0.16 mW in 2.4 GHz. The manual and the RED compliance cert are stated <20 dBm. It seems not right, isn’t it? If the limit is used in mass production, the devices may be faulty and still fall into the limit. For frequency range, did the compliance test verify it? If so, where I can find the test result so I can put appropriate statement on manual accordingly. Thanks and regards, Scott From: Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com> Date: Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 6:22 PM To: 'Scott Xe' <scott...@gmail.com>, <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED Hi Scott, The most common, and most recent, guidance is that the user manual should list the rated power of the product. For example, let’s say you have a WiFi device in the 2.4 GHz band, and the power (e.i.r.p.) is rated at 14 dBm +/- 1 dB.. Let’s say that you measure 13.8 dBm e.i.r.p. in the test lab. We know the limit in the standard is 20 dBm. It would not be necessary to state 13.8 dBm exactly. That value only applies to the one unit you tested, and of course it means you cannot plan your user manual until you tested! Similarly, it would be rather useless to state “<20 dBm” in the user manual; because of course we all know that. The user manual should therefore state: 14 dBm, +/- 1 dB. (the rated power) You can use common terms, like GSM 900, or LTE Band 1. But be careful with some things, like “5 GHz WLAN” because that would not be specific enough…. Because there are so many 5 GHz WLAN bands (some of which are permitted in the EU and some are not) I am not sure I understand the second part of your question: “With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits?” Are you testing to the standards? Or are you checking the accuracy of the user manual statements? Michael. Michael Derby Senior Regulatory Engineer Director ACB Europe Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry Web: www.acbcert.com e-mail:micha...@acbcert.com Mobile phone: (+44) 7939 880829 (UK area code) Corporate office phone: USA: (+1) 703 847 4700 From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & transmitte
Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED
Hi Scott, I think Charlie already answered this, but the “20 dBm” is the limit for 2.4 GHz WLAN and BT, as stated in the spectrum allocations and then again in the test standard (EN 300 328). Each type of band and product will have its own limit. Stating “<20 dBm” would just be reminding the market surveillance of something they already know. They could read the standard or spectrum allocation and already know that information. I think they want to know the actual rated power of the transmitter they have in their hands. As Charlie asked, it seems unclear what exactly you’re asking. Sorry for my confusion! Michael. From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 18 April 2017 14:53 To: Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED Dear Michael, Thanks for your useful example of WiFi devices! The permissible limit is 20 dBm or 100 mW. Where can we find it for different type of products? Can you shed light why <20 dBm is considered useless. That is the design to allow for this type of products. Each designer can fully utilise the allowable power for optimising the performance of the product. I agree on rated power for each product to be quoted. Did you mean the tolerance +/- 1 dB is subject to the upper limit and lower limit of mass production. Each product may vary depending on the complexity of the product. What are about Bluetooth devices? I have learnt the permissible limit is 13 dBm or 20 mW but did not find the reference. However I read a test report of EN 62479 on a Bluetooth speaker. It was measured max E.I.R.P. = -7.9 dBm or 0.16 mW in 2.4 GHz. The manual and the RED compliance cert are stated <20 dBm. It seems not right, isn’t it? If the limit is used in mass production, the devices may be faulty and still fall into the limit. For frequency range, did the compliance test verify it? If so, where I can find the test result so I can put appropriate statement on manual accordingly. Thanks and regards, Scott From: Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com <mailto:micha...@acbcert.com> > Date: Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 6:22 PM To: 'Scott Xe' <scott...@gmail.com <mailto:scott...@gmail.com> >, <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> > Subject: RE: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED Hi Scott, The most common, and most recent, guidance is that the user manual should list the rated power of the product. For example, let’s say you have a WiFi device in the 2.4 GHz band, and the power (e.i.r.p.) is rated at 14 dBm +/- 1 dB.. Let’s say that you measure 13.8 dBm e.i.r.p. in the test lab. We know the limit in the standard is 20 dBm. It would not be necessary to state 13.8 dBm exactly. That value only applies to the one unit you tested, and of course it means you cannot plan your user manual until you tested! Similarly, it would be rather useless to state “<20 dBm” in the user manual; because of course we all know that. The user manual should therefore state: 14 dBm, +/- 1 dB. (the rated power) You can use common terms, like GSM 900, or LTE Band 1. But be careful with some things, like “5 GHz WLAN” because that would not be specific enough…. Because there are so many 5 GHz WLAN bands (some of which are permitted in the EU and some are not) I am not sure I understand the second part of your question: “With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits?” Are you testing to the standards? Or are you checking the accuracy of the user manual statements? Michael. Michael Derby Senior Regulatory Engineer Director ACB Europe Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry Web: www.acbcert.com <http://www.acbcert.com/> e-mail: <mailto:micha...@acbcert.com> micha...@acbcert.com Mobile phone: (+44) 7939 880829 (UK area code) Corporate office phone: USA: (+1) 703 847 4700 From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & transmitted power. What is the right info to give there? With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits? The products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle. Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>
Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED
Dear Charlie, Thanks for your further reply. I am in full agreement of your statements. I received a NB Type examination cert in which on the front page stating frequency range = 2402 MHz – 2480 MHz and transmitted power = <20 dBm on a Bluetooth speaker. The manufacturer just quotes them in the user manual since the cert is issued by a NB. I feel not right and need to help them putting it right with supporting in the directive. That is why I need to know where to obtain the limits and discuss their design limit plus production variation for proper information on the user manual. I have to get all the limits before to talk to the manufacturer’s designers. In addition, these two parameters also link to restriction pictogram. I am seeking the advice where to get such information. Regards, Scott From: Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com> Date: Thursday, 20 April 2017 at 2:15 AM To: Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com>, "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: Frequency range & transitted power for RED Scott The information on frequency and power must refer to the actual product, and not the limits that may be permitted in a standard (which may themselves be subject to additional requirements such as receiver performance or duty cycle). One of the purposes of the information is to assist market enforcement is determining whether a product is compliant or non-compliant and whether or not it is operating as it was designed to ( in other words whether its performance is similar to the one that was tested and whether manufacturer’s production control is working) Statements such as “< 20dBm” do not inform about the product in the way that “19dBm nominal power” or “0mW EIRP” might. Are you seeking clarification as to what information you should provide on your products, or what information you should find on 3rd party products? Regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: www.sulisconsultants.com Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 18 April 2017 14:15 To: Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: Frequency range & transitted power for RED Dear Charlie, Appreciate your guidance but I need more specific details to follow. Pls see further queries in inline message below. Thanks and regards, Scott From: Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com> Date: Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 4:57 PM To: Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com>, "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: Frequency range & transitted power for RED Scott Current (final draft) guide says: Manufacturers have different alternatives to fulfil these requirements. For example, any of the following options could be added to the instructions: · the nominal frequency and transmitted power (radiated and/or conducted) used by the radio equipment, as reflected in the Technical Documentation (where I can find the permissible limits to comply with), or · for radio equipment using standardized technologies, e.g. GSM/3G/LTE, indication of the frequency band in the way they are commonly well-known (such as GSM 900, 1800). Where different power levels are possible, the nominal maximum power would be stated (For Bluetooth devices and RF devices running at 2.4 GHz what is the permission limits?). Regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: www.sulisconsultants.com Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & transmitted power. What is the right info to give there? With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits? The products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle. Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help,
Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED
Scott The information on frequency and power must refer to the actual product, and not the limits that may be permitted in a standard (which may themselves be subject to additional requirements such as receiver performance or duty cycle). One of the purposes of the information is to assist market enforcement is determining whether a product is compliant or non-compliant and whether or not it is operating as it was designed to ( in other words whether its performance is similar to the one that was tested and whether manufacturer’s production control is working) Statements such as “< 20dBm” do not inform about the product in the way that “19dBm nominal power” or “0mW EIRP” might. Are you seeking clarification as to what information you should provide on your products, or what information you should find on 3rd party products? Regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: www.sulisconsultants.com<https://outlook.hslive.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=02be3bf3e3a544d1bdf7b6c99fbd12f5=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sulisconsultants.com%2f> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 18 April 2017 14:15 To: Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: Frequency range & transitted power for RED Dear Charlie, Appreciate your guidance but I need more specific details to follow. Pls see further queries in inline message below. Thanks and regards, Scott From: Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com<mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>> Date: Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 4:57 PM To: Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com<mailto:scott...@gmail.com>>, "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>" <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>> Subject: RE: Frequency range & transitted power for RED Scott Current (final draft) guide says: Manufacturers have different alternatives to fulfil these requirements. For example, any of the following options could be added to the instructions: · the nominal frequency and transmitted power (radiated and/or conducted) used by the radio equipment, as reflected in the Technical Documentation (where I can find the permissible limits to comply with), or · for radio equipment using standardized technologies, e.g. GSM/3G/LTE, indication of the frequency band in the way they are commonly well-known (such as GSM 900, 1800). Where different power levels are possible, the nominal maximum power would be stated (For Bluetooth devices and RF devices running at 2.4 GHz what is the permission limits?). Regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: www.sulisconsultants.com<https://outlook.hslive.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=02be3bf3e3a544d1bdf7b6c99fbd12f5=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sulisconsultants.com%2f> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & transmitted power. What is the right info to give there? With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits? The products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle. Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.i
Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED
Dear Michael, Thanks for your useful example of WiFi devices! The permissible limit is 20 dBm or 100 mW. Where can we find it for different type of products? Can you shed light why <20 dBm is considered useless. That is the design to allow for this type of products. Each designer can fully utilise the allowable power for optimising the performance of the product. I agree on rated power for each product to be quoted. Did you mean the tolerance +/- 1 dB is subject to the upper limit and lower limit of mass production. Each product may vary depending on the complexity of the product. What are about Bluetooth devices? I have learnt the permissible limit is 13 dBm or 20 mW but did not find the reference. However I read a test report of EN 62479 on a Bluetooth speaker. It was measured max E.I.R.P. = -7.9 dBm or 0.16 mW in 2.4 GHz. The manual and the RED compliance cert are stated <20 dBm. It seems not right, isn’t it? If the limit is used in mass production, the devices may be faulty and still fall into the limit. For frequency range, did the compliance test verify it? If so, where I can find the test result so I can put appropriate statement on manual accordingly. Thanks and regards, Scott From: Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com> Date: Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 6:22 PM To: 'Scott Xe' <scott...@gmail.com>, <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED Hi Scott, The most common, and most recent, guidance is that the user manual should list the rated power of the product. For example, let’s say you have a WiFi device in the 2.4 GHz band, and the power (e.i.r.p.) is rated at 14 dBm +/- 1 dB.. Let’s say that you measure 13.8 dBm e.i.r.p. in the test lab. We know the limit in the standard is 20 dBm. It would not be necessary to state 13.8 dBm exactly. That value only applies to the one unit you tested, and of course it means you cannot plan your user manual until you tested! Similarly, it would be rather useless to state “<20 dBm” in the user manual; because of course we all know that. The user manual should therefore state: 14 dBm, +/- 1 dB. (the rated power) You can use common terms, like GSM 900, or LTE Band 1. But be careful with some things, like “5 GHz WLAN” because that would not be specific enough…. Because there are so many 5 GHz WLAN bands (some of which are permitted in the EU and some are not) I am not sure I understand the second part of your question: “With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits?” Are you testing to the standards? Or are you checking the accuracy of the user manual statements? Michael. Michael Derby Senior Regulatory Engineer Director ACB Europe Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry Web: www.acbcert.com e-mail:micha...@acbcert.com Mobile phone: (+44) 7939 880829 (UK area code) Corporate office phone: USA: (+1) 703 847 4700 From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & transmitted power. What is the right info to give there? With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits? The products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle. Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://prod
Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED
Dear Charlie, Appreciate your guidance but I need more specific details to follow. Pls see further queries in inline message below. Thanks and regards, Scott From: Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com> Date: Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 4:57 PM To: Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com>, "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: Frequency range & transitted power for RED Scott Current (final draft) guide says: Manufacturers have different alternatives to fulfil these requirements. For example, any of the following options could be added to the instructions: · the nominal frequency and transmitted power (radiated and/or conducted) used by the radio equipment, as reflected in the Technical Documentation (where I can find the permissible limits to comply with), or · for radio equipment using standardized technologies, e.g. GSM/3G/LTE, indication of the frequency band in the way they are commonly well-known (such as GSM 900, 1800). Where different power levels are possible, the nominal maximum power would be stated (For Bluetooth devices and RF devices running at 2.4 GHz what is the permission limits?). Regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: www.sulisconsultants.com Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & transmitted power. What is the right info to give there? With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits? The products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle. Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED
Scott Current (final draft) guide says: Manufacturers have different alternatives to fulfil these requirements. For example, any of the following options could be added to the instructions: ·the nominal frequency and transmitted power (radiated and/or conducted) used by the radio equipment, as reflected in the Technical Documentation, or ·for radio equipment using standardized technologies, e.g. GSM/3G/LTE, indication of the frequency band in the way they are commonly well-known (such as GSM 900, 1800). Where different power levels are possible, the nominal maximum power would be stated. Regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: www.sulisconsultants.com<https://outlook.hslive.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=02be3bf3e3a544d1bdf7b6c99fbd12f5=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sulisconsultants.com%2f> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & transmitted power. What is the right info to give there? With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits? The products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle. Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED
Hi Scott, The most common, and most recent, guidance is that the user manual should list the rated power of the product. For example, let’s say you have a WiFi device in the 2.4 GHz band, and the power (e.i.r.p.) is rated at 14 dBm +/- 1 dB.. Let’s say that you measure 13.8 dBm e.i.r.p. in the test lab. We know the limit in the standard is 20 dBm. It would not be necessary to state 13.8 dBm exactly. That value only applies to the one unit you tested, and of course it means you cannot plan your user manual until you tested! Similarly, it would be rather useless to state “<20 dBm” in the user manual; because of course we all know that. The user manual should therefore state: 14 dBm, +/- 1 dB. (the rated power) You can use common terms, like GSM 900, or LTE Band 1. But be careful with some things, like “5 GHz WLAN” because that would not be specific enough…. Because there are so many 5 GHz WLAN bands (some of which are permitted in the EU and some are not) I am not sure I understand the second part of your question: “With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits?” Are you testing to the standards? Or are you checking the accuracy of the user manual statements? Michael. Michael Derby Senior Regulatory Engineer Director ACB Europe Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry Web: www.acbcert.com <http://www.acbcert.com/> e-mail: <mailto:micha...@acbcert.com> micha...@acbcert.com Mobile phone: (+44) 7939 880829 (UK area code) Corporate office phone: USA: (+1) 703 847 4700 From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & transmitted power. What is the right info to give there? With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits? The products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle. Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
[PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED
In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & transmitted power. What is the right info to give there? With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits? The products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle. Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail toAll emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: