Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

[Scott Xe]

Hi Michael,

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

Yes, it is a bit difficult in understanding the said issues.  Try to view the 
said issues from manufacturer’s point of view and it may be easier to 
communicate the requirements with them.  For example, if the manufacturer 
quotes -6 dBm +/- 3 dBm.  In case the market surveillance finds a sample on the 
market failed to meet the rated power and permissible limits.  Can they 
determine the product to be incompliance with RED?

 

Regards,

 

Scott

 

From: Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com>
Date: Thursday, 20 April 2017 at 5:25 PM
To: 'Scott Xe' <scott...@gmail.com>, <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

Hi Scott,

 

I think Charlie already answered this, but the “20 dBm” is the limit for 2.4 
GHz WLAN and BT, as stated in the spectrum allocations and then again in the 
test standard (EN 300 328).

Each type of band and product will have its own limit.

 

Stating “<20 dBm” would just be reminding the market surveillance of something 
they already know.   They could read the standard or spectrum allocation and 
already know that information.

I think they want to know the actual rated power of the transmitter they have 
in their hands.

 

As Charlie asked, it seems unclear what exactly you’re asking.   Sorry for my 
confusion!

 

Michael.

 

 

 

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 18 April 2017 14:53
To: Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

Dear Michael,

 

Thanks for your useful example of WiFi devices!  The permissible limit is 20 
dBm or 100 mW.  Where can we find it for different type of products?

 

Can you shed light why <20 dBm is considered useless.  That is the design to 
allow for this type of products.  Each designer can fully utilise the allowable 
power for optimising the performance of the product.

 

I agree on rated power for each product to be quoted.  Did you mean the 
tolerance +/- 1 dB is subject to the upper limit and lower limit of mass 
production.  Each product may vary depending on the complexity of the product.

 

What are about Bluetooth devices?  I have learnt the permissible limit is 13 
dBm or 20 mW but did not find the reference.  However I read a test report of 
EN 62479 on a Bluetooth speaker.  It was measured max E.I.R.P. = -7.9 dBm or 
0.16 mW in 2.4 GHz.  The manual and the RED compliance cert are stated <20 dBm. 
 It seems not right, isn’t it?  If the limit is used in mass production, the 
devices may be faulty and still fall into the limit.

 

For frequency range, did the compliance test verify it?  If so, where I can 
find the test result so I can put appropriate statement on manual accordingly.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

 

 

From: Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com>
Date: Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 6:22 PM
To: 'Scott Xe' <scott...@gmail.com>, <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

Hi Scott,

 

The most common, and most recent, guidance is that the user manual should list 
the rated power of the product.

 

For example, let’s say you have a WiFi device in the 2.4 GHz band, and the 
power (e.i.r.p.) is rated at 14 dBm +/- 1 dB..

Let’s say that you measure 13.8 dBm e.i.r.p. in the test lab.

We know the limit in the standard is 20 dBm.

 

It would not be necessary to state 13.8 dBm exactly.   That value only applies 
to the one unit you tested, and of course it means you cannot plan your user 
manual until you tested!

 

Similarly, it would be rather useless to state “<20 dBm” in the user manual; 
because of course we all know that.

 

The user manual should therefore state:   14 dBm, +/- 1 dB.   (the rated power)

 

You can use common terms, like GSM 900, or LTE Band 1.   But be careful with 
some things, like “5 GHz WLAN” because that would not be specific enough…. 
Because there are so many 5 GHz WLAN bands (some of which are permitted in the 
EU and some are not)

 

I am not sure I understand the second part of your question:

“With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible 
limits?”

 

Are you testing to the standards?   Or are you checking the accuracy of the 
user manual statements?

 

 

Michael.

 

 

Michael Derby 

Senior Regulatory Engineer 

Director 

ACB Europe 

 

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry 

Web:   www.acbcert.com 

  

e-mail:micha...@acbcert.com 

Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code) 

Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & 
transmitte

Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

[Michael Derby]

Hi Scott,

 

I think Charlie already answered this, but the “20 dBm” is the limit for 2.4 
GHz WLAN and BT, as stated in the spectrum allocations and then again in the 
test standard (EN 300 328).

Each type of band and product will have its own limit.

 

Stating “<20 dBm” would just be reminding the market surveillance of something 
they already know.   They could read the standard or spectrum allocation and 
already know that information.

I think they want to know the actual rated power of the transmitter they have 
in their hands.

 

As Charlie asked, it seems unclear what exactly you’re asking.   Sorry for my 
confusion!

 

Michael.

 

 

 

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 18 April 2017 14:53
To: Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

Dear Michael,

 

Thanks for your useful example of WiFi devices!  The permissible limit is 20 
dBm or 100 mW.  Where can we find it for different type of products?

 

Can you shed light why <20 dBm is considered useless.  That is the design to 
allow for this type of products.  Each designer can fully utilise the allowable 
power for optimising the performance of the product.

 

I agree on rated power for each product to be quoted.  Did you mean the 
tolerance +/- 1 dB is subject to the upper limit and lower limit of mass 
production.  Each product may vary depending on the complexity of the product.

 

What are about Bluetooth devices?  I have learnt the permissible limit is 13 
dBm or 20 mW but did not find the reference.  However I read a test report of 
EN 62479 on a Bluetooth speaker.  It was measured max E.I.R.P. = -7.9 dBm or 
0.16 mW in 2.4 GHz.  The manual and the RED compliance cert are stated <20 dBm. 
 It seems not right, isn’t it?  If the limit is used in mass production, the 
devices may be faulty and still fall into the limit.

 

For frequency range, did the compliance test verify it?  If so, where I can 
find the test result so I can put appropriate statement on manual accordingly.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

 

 

From: Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com <mailto:micha...@acbcert.com> >
Date: Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 6:22 PM
To: 'Scott Xe' <scott...@gmail.com <mailto:scott...@gmail.com> >, 
<EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> >
Subject: RE: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

Hi Scott,

 

The most common, and most recent, guidance is that the user manual should list 
the rated power of the product.

 

For example, let’s say you have a WiFi device in the 2.4 GHz band, and the 
power (e.i.r.p.) is rated at 14 dBm +/- 1 dB..

Let’s say that you measure 13.8 dBm e.i.r.p. in the test lab.

We know the limit in the standard is 20 dBm.

 

It would not be necessary to state 13.8 dBm exactly.   That value only applies 
to the one unit you tested, and of course it means you cannot plan your user 
manual until you tested!

 

Similarly, it would be rather useless to state “<20 dBm” in the user manual; 
because of course we all know that.

 

The user manual should therefore state:   14 dBm, +/- 1 dB.   (the rated power)

 

You can use common terms, like GSM 900, or LTE Band 1.   But be careful with 
some things, like “5 GHz WLAN” because that would not be specific enough…. 
Because there are so many 5 GHz WLAN bands (some of which are permitted in the 
EU and some are not)

 

I am not sure I understand the second part of your question:

“With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible 
limits?”

 

Are you testing to the standards?   Or are you checking the accuracy of the 
user manual statements?

 

 

Michael.

 

 

Michael Derby 

Senior Regulatory Engineer 

Director 

ACB Europe 

 

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry 

Web:   www.acbcert.com <http://www.acbcert.com/>  

  

e-mail: <mailto:micha...@acbcert.com> micha...@acbcert.com 

Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code) 

Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & 
transmitted power.  What is the right info to give there?  With a compliance 
report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits?  The 
products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> 

Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

[Scott Xe]

Dear Charlie,

 

Thanks for your further reply.  I am in full agreement of your statements.

 

I received a NB Type examination cert in which on the front page stating 
frequency range = 2402 MHz – 2480 MHz and transmitted power = <20 dBm on a 
Bluetooth speaker.  The manufacturer just quotes them in the user manual since 
the cert is issued by a NB.  I feel not right and need to help them putting it 
right with supporting in the directive.  That is why I need to know where to 
obtain the limits and discuss their design limit plus production variation for 
proper information on the user manual.  I have to get all the limits before to 
talk to the manufacturer’s designers.  In addition, these two parameters also 
link to restriction pictogram.  I am seeking the advice where to get such 
information.

 

Regards,

 

Scott

 

From: Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com>
Date: Thursday, 20 April 2017 at 2:15 AM
To: Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com>, "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" 
<EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

Scott

 

The information on frequency and power must refer to the actual product, and 
not the limits that may be permitted in a standard (which may themselves be 
subject to additional requirements such as receiver performance or duty cycle).

 

One of the purposes of the information is to assist market enforcement is 
determining whether a product is compliant or non-compliant and whether or not 
it is operating as it was designed to ( in other words whether its performance 
is similar to the one that was tested and whether manufacturer’s production 
control is working)

 

Statements such as “< 20dBm” do not inform about the product in the way that 
“19dBm nominal power” or “0mW EIRP” might.

 

Are you seeking clarification as to what information you should provide on your 
products, or what information you should find on 3rd party products?

 

Regards

Charlie

 

Charlie Blackham

Sulis Consultants Ltd

Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317

Web: www.sulisconsultants.com

Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 18 April 2017 14:15
To: Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

Dear Charlie,

 

Appreciate your guidance but I need more specific details to follow.  Pls see 
further queries in inline message below.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

 

From: Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com>
Date: Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 4:57 PM
To: Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com>, "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" 
<EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

Scott

 

Current (final draft) guide says:

 

Manufacturers have different alternatives to fulfil these requirements. For 
example, any of the following options could be added to the instructions:

· the nominal frequency and transmitted power (radiated and/or 
conducted) used by the radio equipment, as reflected in the Technical 
Documentation (where I can find the permissible limits to comply with), or

· for radio equipment using standardized technologies, e.g. GSM/3G/LTE, 
indication of the frequency band in the way they are commonly well-known (such 
as GSM 900, 1800). Where different power levels are possible, the nominal 
maximum power would be stated (For Bluetooth devices and RF devices running at 
2.4 GHz what is the permission limits?).

 

Regards

Charlie

 

Charlie Blackham

Sulis Consultants Ltd

Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317

Web: www.sulisconsultants.com

Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & 
transmitted power.  What is the right info to give there?  With a compliance 
report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits?  The 
products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help,

Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

[Charlie Blackham]

Scott

The information on frequency and power must refer to the actual product, and 
not the limits that may be permitted in a standard (which may themselves be 
subject to additional requirements such as receiver performance or duty cycle).

One of the purposes of the information is to assist market enforcement is 
determining whether a product is compliant or non-compliant and whether or not 
it is operating as it was designed to ( in other words whether its performance 
is similar to the one that was tested and whether manufacturer’s production 
control is working)

Statements such as “< 20dBm” do not inform about the product in the way that 
“19dBm nominal power” or “0mW EIRP” might.

Are you seeking clarification as to what information you should provide on your 
products, or what information you should find on 3rd party products?

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: 
www.sulisconsultants.com<https://outlook.hslive.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=02be3bf3e3a544d1bdf7b6c99fbd12f5=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sulisconsultants.com%2f>
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
Sent: 18 April 2017 14:15
To: Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: Frequency range & transitted power for RED

Dear Charlie,

Appreciate your guidance but I need more specific details to follow.  Pls see 
further queries in inline message below.

Thanks and regards,

Scott

From: Charlie Blackham 
<char...@sulisconsultants.com<mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>>
Date: Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 4:57 PM
To: Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com<mailto:scott...@gmail.com>>, 
"EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>" 
<EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>>
Subject: RE: Frequency range & transitted power for RED

Scott

Current (final draft) guide says:

Manufacturers have different alternatives to fulfil these requirements. For 
example, any of the following options could be added to the instructions:
· the nominal frequency and transmitted power (radiated and/or 
conducted) used by the radio equipment, as reflected in the Technical 
Documentation (where I can find the permissible limits to comply with), or
· for radio equipment using standardized technologies, e.g. GSM/3G/LTE, 
indication of the frequency band in the way they are commonly well-known (such 
as GSM 900, 1800). Where different power levels are possible, the nominal 
maximum power would be stated (For Bluetooth devices and RF devices running at 
2.4 GHz what is the permission limits?).

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: 
www.sulisconsultants.com<https://outlook.hslive.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=02be3bf3e3a544d1bdf7b6c99fbd12f5=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sulisconsultants.com%2f>
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & 
transmitted power.  What is the right info to give there?  With a compliance 
report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits?  The 
products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle.

Thanks and regards,

Scott
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.i

Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

[Scott Xe]

Dear Michael,

 

Thanks for your useful example of WiFi devices!  The permissible limit is 20 
dBm or 100 mW.  Where can we find it for different type of products?

 

Can you shed light why <20 dBm is considered useless.  That is the design to 
allow for this type of products.  Each designer can fully utilise the allowable 
power for optimising the performance of the product.

 

I agree on rated power for each product to be quoted.  Did you mean the 
tolerance +/- 1 dB is subject to the upper limit and lower limit of mass 
production.  Each product may vary depending on the complexity of the product.

 

What are about Bluetooth devices?  I have learnt the permissible limit is 13 
dBm or 20 mW but did not find the reference.  However I read a test report of 
EN 62479 on a Bluetooth speaker.  It was measured max E.I.R.P. = -7.9 dBm or 
0.16 mW in 2.4 GHz.  The manual and the RED compliance cert are stated <20 dBm. 
 It seems not right, isn’t it?  If the limit is used in mass production, the 
devices may be faulty and still fall into the limit.

 

For frequency range, did the compliance test verify it?  If so, where I can 
find the test result so I can put appropriate statement on manual accordingly.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

 

 

From: Michael Derby <micha...@acbcert.com>
Date: Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 6:22 PM
To: 'Scott Xe' <scott...@gmail.com>, <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

Hi Scott,

 

The most common, and most recent, guidance is that the user manual should list 
the rated power of the product.

 

For example, let’s say you have a WiFi device in the 2.4 GHz band, and the 
power (e.i.r.p.) is rated at 14 dBm +/- 1 dB..

Let’s say that you measure 13.8 dBm e.i.r.p. in the test lab.

We know the limit in the standard is 20 dBm.

 

It would not be necessary to state 13.8 dBm exactly.   That value only applies 
to the one unit you tested, and of course it means you cannot plan your user 
manual until you tested!

 

Similarly, it would be rather useless to state “<20 dBm” in the user manual; 
because of course we all know that.

 

The user manual should therefore state:   14 dBm, +/- 1 dB.   (the rated power)

 

You can use common terms, like GSM 900, or LTE Band 1.   But be careful with 
some things, like “5 GHz WLAN” because that would not be specific enough…. 
Because there are so many 5 GHz WLAN bands (some of which are permitted in the 
EU and some are not)

 

I am not sure I understand the second part of your question:

“With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible 
limits?”

 

Are you testing to the standards?   Or are you checking the accuracy of the 
user manual statements?

 

 

Michael.

 

 

Michael Derby 

Senior Regulatory Engineer 

Director 

ACB Europe 

 

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry 

Web:   www.acbcert.com 

  

e-mail:micha...@acbcert.com 

Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code) 

Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & 
transmitted power.  What is the right info to give there?  With a compliance 
report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits?  The 
products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org>
David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://prod

Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

[Scott Xe]

Dear Charlie,

 

Appreciate your guidance but I need more specific details to follow.  Pls see 
further queries in inline message below.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

 

From: Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com>
Date: Tuesday, 18 April 2017 at 4:57 PM
To: Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com>, "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" 
<EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

Scott

 

Current (final draft) guide says:

 

Manufacturers have different alternatives to fulfil these requirements. For 
example, any of the following options could be added to the instructions:

· the nominal frequency and transmitted power (radiated and/or 
conducted) used by the radio equipment, as reflected in the Technical 
Documentation (where I can find the permissible limits to comply with), or

· for radio equipment using standardized technologies, e.g. GSM/3G/LTE, 
indication of the frequency band in the way they are commonly well-known (such 
as GSM 900, 1800). Where different power levels are possible, the nominal 
maximum power would be stated (For Bluetooth devices and RF devices running at 
2.4 GHz what is the permission limits?).

 

Regards

Charlie

 

Charlie Blackham

Sulis Consultants Ltd

Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317

Web: www.sulisconsultants.com

Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & 
transmitted power.  What is the right info to give there?  With a compliance 
report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits?  The 
products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

[Charlie Blackham]

Scott

Current (final draft) guide says:

Manufacturers have different alternatives to fulfil these requirements. For 
example, any of the following options could be added to the instructions:
·the nominal frequency and transmitted power (radiated and/or 
conducted) used by the radio equipment, as reflected in the Technical 
Documentation, or
·for radio equipment using standardized technologies, e.g. GSM/3G/LTE, 
indication of the frequency band in the way they are commonly well-known (such 
as GSM 900, 1800). Where different power levels are possible, the nominal 
maximum power would be stated.

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: 
www.sulisconsultants.com<https://outlook.hslive.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=02be3bf3e3a544d1bdf7b6c99fbd12f5=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sulisconsultants.com%2f>
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & 
transmitted power.  What is the right info to give there?  With a compliance 
report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits?  The 
products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle.

Thanks and regards,

Scott
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Re: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

[Michael Derby]

Hi Scott,

 

The most common, and most recent, guidance is that the user manual should list 
the rated power of the product.

 

For example, let’s say you have a WiFi device in the 2.4 GHz band, and the 
power (e.i.r.p.) is rated at 14 dBm +/- 1 dB..

Let’s say that you measure 13.8 dBm e.i.r.p. in the test lab.

We know the limit in the standard is 20 dBm.

 

It would not be necessary to state 13.8 dBm exactly.   That value only applies 
to the one unit you tested, and of course it means you cannot plan your user 
manual until you tested!

 

Similarly, it would be rather useless to state “<20 dBm” in the user manual; 
because of course we all know that.

 

The user manual should therefore state:   14 dBm, +/- 1 dB.   (the rated power)

 

You can use common terms, like GSM 900, or LTE Band 1.   But be careful with 
some things, like “5 GHz WLAN” because that would not be specific enough…. 
Because there are so many 5 GHz WLAN bands (some of which are permitted in the 
EU and some are not)

 

I am not sure I understand the second part of your question:

“With a compliance report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible 
limits?”

 

Are you testing to the standards?   Or are you checking the accuracy of the 
user manual statements?

 

 

Michael.

 

 

Michael Derby 

Senior Regulatory Engineer 

Director 

ACB Europe 

 

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry 

Web:   www.acbcert.com <http://www.acbcert.com/>  

  

e-mail: <mailto:micha...@acbcert.com> micha...@acbcert.com 

Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code) 

Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 17 April 2017 10:27
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

 

In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & 
transmitted power.  What is the right info to give there?  With a compliance 
report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits?  The 
products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

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[PSES] Frequency range & transitted power for RED

[Scott Xe]

In user manual, it is required to give the info on frequency range & 
transmitted power.  What is the right info to give there?  With a compliance 
report, where do we check if they fall into the permissible limits?  The 
products are Bluetooth speakers and keyboard/mouse with a RF dongle.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott


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