Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track demo
For a real fun time you can demonstrate someone inserting a standard NEMA 1-15 or 5-15 plug into a standard wall outlet while "accidentally" touching the hot leg and listen to all the queries as to how that design could persist for so long. The power of the purse. -Dave -Original Message- From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 3:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track demo When he was at HP many (about 40 IIRC) years ago, Al Kanode ran some demos (participated myself, and it was "interesting!) like that - anyone have any film (before the days of home videos!) of one of those ? On my side, I helped to design and install the electrical side of an exhibit at the London Science Museum in 2004/2005 to demonstrate that you can't see electrical energy but it really does exist. It consisted (briefly!) of a tall metal column connected to a shock source (a low-power electric fence energiser with external ballasting to reduce the shock current to a much lower level than the max in most standards) - people touched it with the fingers, and when they did they got a slight shock and there was a loud noise from the associated sound system. See this video of it for a laugh https://vimeo.com/31445076. The critical part of the design that I added was the shock circuit was only between the inner core of the centre section and the fairly closely packed metal rods surrounding it - and you could only insert a couple of fingers at a time, and thus you would get the shock between the fingers on one hand. OTOH, in the original design (before I got involved!), you got the shock between the cylinder - which had no centre section at that time - and the floor, and that, coupled with the use of a much more powerful fence energizer, meant a MUCH bigger "belt" which no-body in their right mind would want in a public place like that. Literally thousands of people (including lots of kids!) played with this thing - sometimes for protracted periods - and, AFAIK, no-one got even mildly hurt! Surely something like that could be demonstrated, with the well-publicised warning that that the higher the shock current then the "bigger" the effect would be? John Allen W.London, UK -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] Sent: 02 September 2015 17:12 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track demo Dan et al, A flamboyant demonstration; not sure that a person needs to shock his tongue - an organ with lots of sensors built-in. Seems like something left over from a horror movie (or real life experience in some cultures since the introduction of electricity 100 years ago or so). There is a lot of good technical information available on electric shock - starting from the 1930s (Whittaker) thru the 1950s (especially Dalziel) and more recently (e.g. 1983 & 1986 ES symposiums). This technical material is summarized in IEC 60479 series of Basic Safety standards which are to be used by equipment committees. I have given a number of electric shock presentations at the IEEE PSES/ISPCE meetings since the first meeting of this group. I have been involved in electric shock demonstrations both as a subject (see my PSES08 presentation on body impedance calculations) and as a demonstrator with hundreds of participants over the years. The demo allows the participant to feel the startle-reaction current (0.5mArms) and just short of the letgo-immobilization current (3.5mArms demo) as defined in the technical standards we commonly deal with; the distributions of current between these two levels is widespread, as shown in my papers. Nute & I have sought permission from the IEEE to give a demo at the meetings and it was refused because of the liability issues. The PSES management committee is familiar with the effort. Watching a video is interesting (and, as has been pointed out, you can watch it on YouTube). Watching a person get a live shock is more interesting (hopefully not some prurient interest here). Participating in a safe electric shock demo is revealing and qualitative, leaving a lasting impression on most participants. My compliance 101 demo has not used a video or a demo; there is a lot more important technical information to present in the short time allotted. If folks want to watch YouTube videos we could set up a table in the exhibit hall and let them run non-stop. C'mon down and I'll give the scoop on electric shock (jra consenting) including dealing with modern switching supplies and the issues introduced at the product level which must be measured a
Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track demo
When he was at HP many (about 40 IIRC) years ago, Al Kanode ran some demos (participated myself, and it was "interesting!) like that - anyone have any film (before the days of home videos!) of one of those ? On my side, I helped to design and install the electrical side of an exhibit at the London Science Museum in 2004/2005 to demonstrate that you can't see electrical energy but it really does exist. It consisted (briefly!) of a tall metal column connected to a shock source (a low-power electric fence energiser with external ballasting to reduce the shock current to a much lower level than the max in most standards) - people touched it with the fingers, and when they did they got a slight shock and there was a loud noise from the associated sound system. See this video of it for a laugh https://vimeo.com/31445076. The critical part of the design that I added was the shock circuit was only between the inner core of the centre section and the fairly closely packed metal rods surrounding it - and you could only insert a couple of fingers at a time, and thus you would get the shock between the fingers on one hand. OTOH, in the original design (before I got involved!), you got the shock between the cylinder - which had no centre section at that time - and the floor, and that, coupled with the use of a much more powerful fence energizer, meant a MUCH bigger "belt" which no-body in their right mind would want in a public place like that. Literally thousands of people (including lots of kids!) played with this thing - sometimes for protracted periods - and, AFAIK, no-one got even mildly hurt! Surely something like that could be demonstrated, with the well-publicised warning that that the higher the shock current then the "bigger" the effect would be? John Allen W.London, UK -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] Sent: 02 September 2015 17:12 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track demo Dan et al, A flamboyant demonstration; not sure that a person needs to shock his tongue - an organ with lots of sensors built-in. Seems like something left over from a horror movie (or real life experience in some cultures since the introduction of electricity 100 years ago or so). There is a lot of good technical information available on electric shock - starting from the 1930s (Whittaker) thru the 1950s (especially Dalziel) and more recently (e.g. 1983 & 1986 ES symposiums). This technical material is summarized in IEC 60479 series of Basic Safety standards which are to be used by equipment committees. I have given a number of electric shock presentations at the IEEE PSES/ISPCE meetings since the first meeting of this group. I have been involved in electric shock demonstrations both as a subject (see my PSES08 presentation on body impedance calculations) and as a demonstrator with hundreds of participants over the years. The demo allows the participant to feel the startle-reaction current (0.5mArms) and just short of the letgo-immobilization current (3.5mArms demo) as defined in the technical standards we commonly deal with; the distributions of current between these two levels is widespread, as shown in my papers. Nute & I have sought permission from the IEEE to give a demo at the meetings and it was refused because of the liability issues. The PSES management committee is familiar with the effort. Watching a video is interesting (and, as has been pointed out, you can watch it on YouTube). Watching a person get a live shock is more interesting (hopefully not some prurient interest here). Participating in a safe electric shock demo is revealing and qualitative, leaving a lasting impression on most participants. My compliance 101 demo has not used a video or a demo; there is a lot more important technical information to present in the short time allotted. If folks want to watch YouTube videos we could set up a table in the exhibit hall and let them run non-stop. C'mon down and I'll give the scoop on electric shock (jra consenting) including dealing with modern switching supplies and the issues introduced at the product level which must be measured and remain in compliance to the long-standing requirements. There's more here than meets the eye. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org _ _ _ _ _ Thanks Dan, Pretty funny guy!! Not sure if PSES would allow live demos. Best Regards, John John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 - --
Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track demo
Dan et al, A flamboyant demonstration; not sure that a person needs to shock his tongue - an organ with lots of sensors built-in. Seems like something left over from a horror movie (or real life experience in some cultures since the introduction of electricity 100 years ago or so). There is a lot of good technical information available on electric shock - starting from the 1930s (Whittaker) thru the 1950s (especially Dalziel) and more recently (e.g. 1983 & 1986 ES symposiums). This technical material is summarized in IEC 60479 series of Basic Safety standards which are to be used by equipment committees. I have given a number of electric shock presentations at the IEEE PSES/ISPCE meetings since the first meeting of this group. I have been involved in electric shock demonstrations both as a subject (see my PSES08 presentation on body impedance calculations) and as a demonstrator with hundreds of participants over the years. The demo allows the participant to feel the startle-reaction current (0.5mArms) and just short of the letgo-immobilization current (3.5mArms demo) as defined in the technical standards we commonly deal with; the distributions of current between these two levels is widespread, as shown in my papers. Nute & I have sought permission from the IEEE to give a demo at the meetings and it was refused because of the liability issues. The PSES management committee is familiar with the effort. Watching a video is interesting (and, as has been pointed out, you can watch it on YouTube). Watching a person get a live shock is more interesting (hopefully not some prurient interest here). Participating in a safe electric shock demo is revealing and qualitative, leaving a lasting impression on most participants. My compliance 101 demo has not used a video or a demo; there is a lot more important technical information to present in the short time allotted. If folks want to watch YouTube videos we could set up a table in the exhibit hall and let them run non-stop. C'mon down and I'll give the scoop on electric shock (jra consenting) including dealing with modern switching supplies and the issues introduced at the product level which must be measured and remain in compliance to the long-standing requirements. There's more here than meets the eye. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org _ _ _ _ _ Thanks Dan, Pretty funny guy!! Not sure if PSES would allow live demos. Best Regards, John John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
In message <001601d0e45c$4d9f8b10$e8dea130$@verizon.net>, dated Mon, 31 Aug 2015, Dan Roman writes: This guy appears to be doing a lot of demos, perhaps you can get him.here is a sample of his work. I have to say that this is consistent with my own inadvertent finding, that a shock from 100 V of audio is more painful than a shock from 100 V of 50 Hz, and is more painful in its effect than 'pins and needles'. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
Thanks Dan, Pretty funny guy!! Not sure if PSES would allow live demos. Best Regards, John John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 [http://www.productsafetyinc.com/assets/product-safety-consulting.png]<http://www.productsafetyinc.com/> Product Safety Consulting Product Safety Consulting provides product developers and manufacturers with expert advice and testing services, so they can secure product safety and Read more...<http://www.productsafetyinc.com/> From: Dan Roman Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 9:17 PM To: John Allen; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; 'Pete Perkins'; ri...@ieee.org Subject: RE: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track This guy appears to be doing a lot of demos, perhaps you can get him…here is a sample of his work. https://youtu.be/MMzU66IHe-k __ Dan Roman, N.C.E. Senior Member IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society mailto:dan.ro...@ieee.org From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 6:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Those are great suggestions!! If either of you - Ted and The Other Brian - or anyone else can put together either presentation they'd both be great for Compliance 101. Any takers?? Only one comment in that there's no ketchup on Chicago style hot dogs!! Best Regards, John John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 From: Ted Eckert mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com>> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 4:53 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Hotdogs can be used for demonstrations of pinch points. (I recommend not using Chicago style dogs<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago-style_hot_dog#/media/File:Chicago-style_hot_dog_2.jpg>. The ketchup and mustard are bad enough, but that neon green relish makes a real mess during testing.) But seriously, raw hotdogs work for showing how different situations could cut the skin on a finger. Another potential demonstration is to show how the K factor of a fan relates to injury. My hypothetical test would be to use a set fans with varying K factors. You could use the aforementioned hotdog or people who have signed a waiver. I wouldn’t recommend allowing participants to test any fan with a K factor more than 25% of the finger safe limit. That should be sufficient to give an idea of what the K factor means. It may be interesting to take a fan with a K factor just within the finger-safe limit and stick a hotdog in it to show what happens. More than a decade ago, I took an HBSE course from UL that included leakage current video. It appeared to be from the 1950s and it started with a notice that the video was in the public domain. However, I’ve never been able to find a copy on the web. In the video, the person giving the demonstration cuts the ground plug off of a metal power drill and holds it in his hand. (This was long before double insulated power tools.) The person than put a metal cuff around their forearm just below the elbow. An assistant adjusted the current flowing through the presenters arm from the cuff to the drill. increasing it in steps to 8 mA with the presenter explaining what he feels. At 8 mA, the presenter was losing control of the musculature of the forearm, but he was still able to stand up and clearly describe the situation. I don’t know if UL still has this video. If so, it is another question whether they would present it again or share it. Personally, I would rather not create a modernized version. I’ve experienced 3.5 mA between two fingers on one hand and that is more than enough of a test for me. The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. Do not try this at home, and consult your corporate attorney before even considering any demonstrations using humanb subjects. I am proposing hypotheitical demonstrations and I am not specifically endorsing the use of human subjects. Ted Eckert From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 1:37 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track I would love to see a similar demonstration on determining minor to moderate mechanical hazards; pinch, crush, shear, etc. How to measure force, determine contact area, calculating contact pressure, and ultimately determining the “Ouch Factor”. What protective measure can be use in different cases to “low
Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
This guy appears to be doing a lot of demos, perhaps you can get him.here is a sample of his work. https://youtu.be/MMzU66IHe-k __ Dan Roman, N.C.E. Senior Member IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society mailto:dan.ro...@ieee.org From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 6:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Those are great suggestions!! If either of you - Ted and The Other Brian - or anyone else can put together either presentation they'd both be great for Compliance 101. Any takers?? Only one comment in that there's no ketchup on Chicago style hot dogs!! Best Regards, John John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 _ From: Ted Eckert mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com> > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 4:53 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Hotdogs can be used for demonstrations of pinch points. (I recommend not using Chicago style dogs <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago-style_hot_dog#/media/File:Chicago-sty le_hot_dog_2.jpg> . The ketchup and mustard are bad enough, but that neon green relish makes a real mess during testing.) But seriously, raw hotdogs work for showing how different situations could cut the skin on a finger. Another potential demonstration is to show how the K factor of a fan relates to injury. My hypothetical test would be to use a set fans with varying K factors. You could use the aforementioned hotdog or people who have signed a waiver. I wouldn't recommend allowing participants to test any fan with a K factor more than 25% of the finger safe limit. That should be sufficient to give an idea of what the K factor means. It may be interesting to take a fan with a K factor just within the finger-safe limit and stick a hotdog in it to show what happens. More than a decade ago, I took an HBSE course from UL that included leakage current video. It appeared to be from the 1950s and it started with a notice that the video was in the public domain. However, I've never been able to find a copy on the web. In the video, the person giving the demonstration cuts the ground plug off of a metal power drill and holds it in his hand. (This was long before double insulated power tools.) The person than put a metal cuff around their forearm just below the elbow. An assistant adjusted the current flowing through the presenters arm from the cuff to the drill. increasing it in steps to 8 mA with the presenter explaining what he feels. At 8 mA, the presenter was losing control of the musculature of the forearm, but he was still able to stand up and clearly describe the situation. I don't know if UL still has this video. If so, it is another question whether they would present it again or share it. Personally, I would rather not create a modernized version. I've experienced 3.5 mA between two fingers on one hand and that is more than enough of a test for me. The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. Do not try this at home, and consult your corporate attorney before even considering any demonstrations using humanb subjects. I am proposing hypotheitical demonstrations and I am not specifically endorsing the use of human subjects. Ted Eckert From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 1:37 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track I would love to see a similar demonstration on determining minor to moderate mechanical hazards; pinch, crush, shear, etc. How to measure force, determine contact area, calculating contact pressure, and ultimately determining the "Ouch Factor". What protective measure can be use in different cases to "lower the risk to an accessible level"? How bad of boo boo are you willing to let your Users have access too? At some point, someone is going to have to stick their finger in there and see how bad it hurts. I'm thinking about using one of those pain charts they use at the hospital. I'd go to a demonstration like that. The Other Brian From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 1:07 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Importance: Low John, Thanx for speaking up; the symposium is always awsome. I did the Electric Shock for Dummies pitch last year and
Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
Well, too much traffic to the Dropbox URL, so Dropbox turned off the service. Sorry. Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
In message ok.com>, dated Tue, 25 Aug 2015, Ted Eckert writes: In response to Mr. Woodgate, I would like to state that I in no way meant to imply that I was endorsing the use of animals in electric shock demonstrations. Of course you weren't. The problem with statements on moral issues is that they tend to beget more and more statements on moral issues. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
I would like to thank Rich for the link. That is exactly what I was looking for. In response to Mr. Woodgate, I would like to state that I in no way meant to imply that I was endorsing the use of animals in electric shock demonstrations. My preference is to make use of existing references such as the one provided by Mr. Nute. Personally, I thought that the demonstration I participated in was excellent. This is where the participants could experience current up to 3.5 mA between two fingers on one hand. I remember signing a wavier and I was aware of the risks. I expect that I would not be allowed to set up a similar demonstration regardless of what wavier I had participants sign. My employer's legal department would laugh loudly if I even proposed the idea. I will also make sure that I get signed consent from each and every hotdog I use for demonstrations of pinch and crush hazards. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com<mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com> The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 4:29 PM To: Ted Eckert ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Hi Ted: You can download the video here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69937717/ubc/20041102-045126.mpg The gentleman is Claude Haggard. I think he lived in Medford, Oregon. This was from a TV show (back in the days of BW TV) he did for Pacific Power to alert rural folks to the hazards of electricity. Mr. Haggard would take his show throughout the US, primarily for school children. I saw him do his show in person, probably in the Midwest. Here is a very brief announcement of his presentation at SOC, March 25, 1955. http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/96844225/ You can also see a record of Mr. Haggard presenting to an NFPA committee (Chicago) in 1958: http://www.nfpa.org/Assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/NEC-Proceedings-1958.pdf Here is another article and picture about one of his presentations, (Seattle, November, 1971): http://providencearchives.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p15352coll31/id/163 Enjoy! Rich ps: I used carrots to determine if mechanical impacts would hurt. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] FW: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
Gotta love good ol' Reddy Kilowatt From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 10:50 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] FW: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Thanks Rich! The video was great! Best Regards, John John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 Product Safety Consulting Product Safety Consulting provides product developers and manufacturers with expert advice and testing services, so they can secure product safety and Read more... From: Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 7:49 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] FW: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Rich, Thanx for chasing the video's. My kids saw Hagagrd's live demo in the 70's and I met him briefly when I picked them up. We'll have to see how to fit some of this in. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 4:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Hi Ted: You can download the video here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69937717/ubc/20041102-045126.mpg The gentleman is Claude Haggard. I think he lived in Medford, Oregon. This was from a TV show (back in the days of BW TV) he did for Pacific Power to alert rural folks to the hazards of electricity. Mr. Haggard would take his show throughout the US, primarily for school children. I saw him do his show in person, probably in the Midwest. Here is a very brief announcement of his presentation at SOC, March 25, 1955. http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/96844225/ You can also see a record of Mr. Haggard presenting to an NFPA committee (Chicago) in 1958: http://www.nfpa.org/Assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/NEC-Proceedings-1958.pdf Here is another article and picture about one of his presentations, (Seattle, November, 1971): http://providencearchives.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p15352coll31/id/163 Enjoy! Rich ps: I used carrots to determine if mechanical impacts would hurt. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher David Heald - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher David Heald - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, sen
Re: [PSES] FW: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
Thanks Rich! The video was great! Best Regards, John John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 [http://www.productsafetyinc.com/assets/product-safety-consulting.png]<http://www.productsafetyinc.com/> Product Safety Consulting Product Safety Consulting provides product developers and manufacturers with expert advice and testing services, so they can secure product safety and Read more...<http://www.productsafetyinc.com/> From: Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 7:49 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] FW: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Rich, Thanx for chasing the video's. My kids saw Hagagrd's live demo in the 70's and I met him briefly when I picked them up. We'll have to see how to fit some of this in... :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 4:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Hi Ted: You can download the video here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69937717/ubc/20041102-045126.mpg The gentleman is Claude Haggard. I think he lived in Medford, Oregon. This was from a TV show (back in the days of BW TV) he did for Pacific Power to alert rural folks to the hazards of electricity. Mr. Haggard would take his show throughout the US, primarily for school children. I saw him do his show in person, probably in the Midwest. Here is a very brief announcement of his presentation at SOC, March 25, 1955. http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/96844225/ You can also see a record of Mr. Haggard presenting to an NFPA committee (Chicago) in 1958: http://www.nfpa.org/Assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/NEC-Proceedings-1958.pdf Here is another article and picture about one of his presentations, (Seattle, November, 1971): http://providencearchives.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p15352coll31/id/163 Enjoy! Rich ps: I used carrots to determine if mechanical impacts would hurt. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http
[PSES] FW: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
Rich, Thanx for chasing the video's. My kids saw Hagagrd's live demo in the 70's and I met him briefly when I picked them up. We'll have to see how to fit some of this in. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 4:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Hi Ted: You can download the video here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69937717/ubc/20041102-045126.mpg The gentleman is Claude Haggard. I think he lived in Medford, Oregon. This was from a TV show (back in the days of BW TV) he did for Pacific Power to alert rural folks to the hazards of electricity. Mr. Haggard would take his show throughout the US, primarily for school children. I saw him do his show in person, probably in the Midwest. Here is a very brief announcement of his presentation at SOC, March 25, 1955. http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/96844225/ You can also see a record of Mr. Haggard presenting to an NFPA committee (Chicago) in 1958: http://www.nfpa.org/Assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/NEC-Proceedings-1958.pdf Here is another article and picture about one of his presentations, (Seattle, November, 1971): http://providencearchives.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p15352coll31 /id/163 Enjoy! Rich ps: I used carrots to determine if mechanical impacts would hurt. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher David Heald - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
Hi Ted: You can download the video here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69937717/ubc/2 0041102-045126.mpg The gentleman is Claude Haggard. I think he lived in Medford, Oregon. This was from a TV show (back in the days of BW TV) he did for Pacific Power to alert rural folks to the hazards of electricity. Mr. Haggard would take his show throughout the US, primarily for school children. I saw him do his show in person, probably in the Midwest. Here is a very brief announcement of his presentation at SOC, March 25, 1955. http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/96844225/ You can also see a record of Mr. Haggard presenting to an NFPA committee (Chicago) in 1958: http://www.nfpa.org/Assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/ NEC-Proceedings-1958.pdf Here is another article and picture about one of his presentations, (Seattle, November, 1971): http://providencearchives.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/r ef/collection/p15352coll31/id/163 Enjoy! Rich ps: I used carrots to determine if mechanical impacts would hurt. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
In message ok.com>, dated Mon, 24 Aug 2015, Ted Eckert writes: I am proposing hypotheitical demonstrations and I am not specifically endorsing the use of human subjects At least humans could understand the experiments and choose whether to take part. It would be far more reprehensible to use non-human subjects. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
Those are great suggestions!! If either of you - Ted and The Other Brian - or anyone else can put together either presentation they'd both be great for Compliance 101. Any takers?? Only one comment in that there's no ketchup on Chicago style hot dogs!! Best Regards, John John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 From: Ted Eckert Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 4:53 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Hotdogs can be used for demonstrations of pinch points. (I recommend not using Chicago style dogs<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago-style_hot_dog#/media/File:Chicago-style_hot_dog_2.jpg>. The ketchup and mustard are bad enough, but that neon green relish makes a real mess during testing.) But seriously, raw hotdogs work for showing how different situations could cut the skin on a finger. Another potential demonstration is to show how the K factor of a fan relates to injury. My hypothetical test would be to use a set fans with varying K factors. You could use the aforementioned hotdog or people who have signed a waiver. I wouldn’t recommend allowing participants to test any fan with a K factor more than 25% of the finger safe limit. That should be sufficient to give an idea of what the K factor means. It may be interesting to take a fan with a K factor just within the finger-safe limit and stick a hotdog in it to show what happens. More than a decade ago, I took an HBSE course from UL that included leakage current video. It appeared to be from the 1950s and it started with a notice that the video was in the public domain. However, I’ve never been able to find a copy on the web. In the video, the person giving the demonstration cuts the ground plug off of a metal power drill and holds it in his hand. (This was long before double insulated power tools.) The person than put a metal cuff around their forearm just below the elbow. An assistant adjusted the current flowing through the presenters arm from the cuff to the drill. increasing it in steps to 8 mA with the presenter explaining what he feels. At 8 mA, the presenter was losing control of the musculature of the forearm, but he was still able to stand up and clearly describe the situation. I don’t know if UL still has this video. If so, it is another question whether they would present it again or share it. Personally, I would rather not create a modernized version. I’ve experienced 3.5 mA between two fingers on one hand and that is more than enough of a test for me. The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. Do not try this at home, and consult your corporate attorney before even considering any demonstrations using humanb subjects. I am proposing hypotheitical demonstrations and I am not specifically endorsing the use of human subjects. Ted Eckert From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 1:37 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track I would love to see a similar demonstration on determining minor to moderate mechanical hazards; pinch, crush, shear, etc. How to measure force, determine contact area, calculating contact pressure, and ultimately determining the “Ouch Factor”. What protective measure can be use in different cases to “lower the risk to an accessible level”? How bad of boo boo are you willing to let your Users have access too? At some point, someone is going to have to stick their finger in there and see how bad it hurts. I’m thinking about using one of those pain charts they use at the hospital. I’d go to a demonstration like that. The Other Brian From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 1:07 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Importance: Low John, Thanx for speaking up; the symposium is always awsome. I did the Electric Shock for Dummies pitch last year and had a great group attending. I’m willing to do it again this year, building on last years session with some improvements. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 4:40 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Hi guys, I'm heading up the Compliance 101 Track for the 2016 Symposium in Anaheim, CA. The Track was v
Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
Hotdogs can be used for demonstrations of pinch points. (I recommend not using Chicago style dogs<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago-style_hot_dog#/media/File:Chicago-style_hot_dog_2.jpg>. The ketchup and mustard are bad enough, but that neon green relish makes a real mess during testing.) But seriously, raw hotdogs work for showing how different situations could cut the skin on a finger. Another potential demonstration is to show how the K factor of a fan relates to injury. My hypothetical test would be to use a set fans with varying K factors. You could use the aforementioned hotdog or people who have signed a waiver. I wouldn't recommend allowing participants to test any fan with a K factor more than 25% of the finger safe limit. That should be sufficient to give an idea of what the K factor means. It may be interesting to take a fan with a K factor just within the finger-safe limit and stick a hotdog in it to show what happens. More than a decade ago, I took an HBSE course from UL that included leakage current video. It appeared to be from the 1950s and it started with a notice that the video was in the public domain. However, I've never been able to find a copy on the web. In the video, the person giving the demonstration cuts the ground plug off of a metal power drill and holds it in his hand. (This was long before double insulated power tools.) The person than put a metal cuff around their forearm just below the elbow. An assistant adjusted the current flowing through the presenters arm from the cuff to the drill. increasing it in steps to 8 mA with the presenter explaining what he feels. At 8 mA, the presenter was losing control of the musculature of the forearm, but he was still able to stand up and clearly describe the situation. I don't know if UL still has this video. If so, it is another question whether they would present it again or share it. Personally, I would rather not create a modernized version. I've experienced 3.5 mA between two fingers on one hand and that is more than enough of a test for me. The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. Do not try this at home, and consult your corporate attorney before even considering any demonstrations using humanb subjects. I am proposing hypotheitical demonstrations and I am not specifically endorsing the use of human subjects. Ted Eckert From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 1:37 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track I would love to see a similar demonstration on determining minor to moderate mechanical hazards; pinch, crush, shear, etc. How to measure force, determine contact area, calculating contact pressure, and ultimately determining the "Ouch Factor". What protective measure can be use in different cases to "lower the risk to an accessible level"? How bad of boo boo are you willing to let your Users have access too? At some point, someone is going to have to stick their finger in there and see how bad it hurts. I'm thinking about using one of those pain charts they use at the hospital. I'd go to a demonstration like that. The Other Brian From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 1:07 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Importance: Low John, Thanx for speaking up; the symposium is always awsome. I did the Electric Shock for Dummies pitch last year and had a great group attending. I'm willing to do it again this year, building on last years session with some improvements. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 4:40 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Hi guys, I'm heading up the Compliance 101 Track for the 2016 Symposium in Anaheim, CA. The Track was very well received last year and I'm hoping to do it again this year with 6 or 7 presentations on high level compliance issues, tips and teachings. The audience for the Track are those new to compliance and designers who don't have the time to get their hands around compliance. Believe it or not, some people that attended the Track last year still thought UL was a government agency. I believe we have a huge opportunity to grow the Symposium, and membership in the PSES by teaching newbies and designers how to do what we do. For the consultants out there
Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
I would love to see a similar demonstration on determining minor to moderate mechanical hazards; pinch, crush, shear, etc. How to measure force, determine contact area, calculating contact pressure, and ultimately determining the "Ouch Factor". What protective measure can be use in different cases to "lower the risk to an accessible level"? How bad of boo boo are you willing to let your Users have access too? At some point, someone is going to have to stick their finger in there and see how bad it hurts. I'm thinking about using one of those pain charts they use at the hospital. I'd go to a demonstration like that. The Other Brian From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 1:07 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [BULK] Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Importance: Low John, Thanx for speaking up; the symposium is always awsome. I did the Electric Shock for Dummies pitch last year and had a great group attending. I'm willing to do it again this year, building on last years session with some improvements. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 4:40 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Hi guys, I'm heading up the Compliance 101 Track for the 2016 Symposium in Anaheim, CA. The Track was very well received last year and I'm hoping to do it again this year with 6 or 7 presentations on high level compliance issues, tips and teachings. The audience for the Track are those new to compliance and designers who don't have the time to get their hands around compliance. Believe it or not, some people that attended the Track last year still thought UL was a government agency. I believe we have a huge opportunity to grow the Symposium, and membership in the PSES by teaching newbies and designers how to do what we do. For the consultants out there I know this sounds like you're giving away free consulting, and you are, but as one of you I can say it is worth it - a knowledgeable client is our best client!! The Symposium is not until May 16-18, 2016 but we need to get organized as the TPC is already meeting monthly. Please consider doing a presentation and reach out to me if your interested. If you'd like to see the Compliance 101 presentations to get a flavor for what they looked like let me know. Not 100% sure if I can pass them on if you didn't attend the symposium, but can certainly pass along something similar to the one I did. Best Regards, John John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send ma
Re: [PSES] FW: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
Thanks Pete, that'd be great, even without the demonstration. If anyone can find that video Kevin referred to, send it along. The Call for Submissions is here - http://2016.psessymposium.org/sites/2016.psessymposium.org/files/call-for-papers/ISPCE_2016_CFP_v10-web.pdf The first deadline is December 6, 2015. Best Regards, John John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 Product Safety Consulting Product Safety Consulting provides product developers and manufacturers with expert advice and testing services, so they can secure product safety and Read more... From: Kevin Robinson Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 11:30 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] FW: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track About 10-15 years ago, there was an advertising video for a Bapco Safety Analyzer that was making the rounds. As I recall the President of the company said he had all of his sales engineers experience what high leakage current felt like by having them hold on to the bare conductors of a circuit he designed and he walked through sensing the current, experiencing pain, and let go current. I would love to see that video again. Kevin Robinson > On Aug 24, 2015, at 11:32 AM, Pete Perkins > <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> wrote: > > John, et al, > >Well, no demonstration... Looked into it several years ago and the > IEEE didn't want to cover the liability for such. Too, bad, I've always > felt that EE product folks should always know what allowable electric shock > feels like. But I do get to describe my own reaction to electric shock (bus > not as satisfying for the audience). > > :>) br, Pete > > Peter E Perkins, PE > Principal Product Safety Engineer > PO Box 23427 > Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 > > 503/452-1201 fone/fax > p.perk...@ieee.org > > > -Original Message- > From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 11:14 PM > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track > > In message <001801d0de2a$ab67e590$0237b0b0$@cs.com>, dated Sun, 23 Aug 2015, > Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> writes: > >>I did the Electric Shock for Dummies pitch last year and had a great >> group attending. I?m willing to do it again this year, building on >> last years session with some improvements. > > With demonstrations? (;-) > -- > OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I > turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M > Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: > David Heald: > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: > David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings
Re: [PSES] FW: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
About 10-15 years ago, there was an advertising video for a Bapco Safety Analyzer that was making the rounds. As I recall the President of the company said he had all of his sales engineers experience what high leakage current felt like by having them hold on to the bare conductors of a circuit he designed and he walked through sensing the current, experiencing pain, and let go current. I would love to see that video again. Kevin Robinson > On Aug 24, 2015, at 11:32 AM, Pete Perkins > <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> wrote: > > John, et al, > >Well, no demonstration... Looked into it several years ago and the > IEEE didn't want to cover the liability for such. Too, bad, I've always > felt that EE product folks should always know what allowable electric shock > feels like. But I do get to describe my own reaction to electric shock (bus > not as satisfying for the audience). > > :>) br, Pete > > Peter E Perkins, PE > Principal Product Safety Engineer > PO Box 23427 > Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 > > 503/452-1201 fone/fax > p.perk...@ieee.org > > > -Original Message- > From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 11:14 PM > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track > > In message <001801d0de2a$ab67e590$0237b0b0$@cs.com>, dated Sun, 23 Aug 2015, > Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> writes: > >>I did the Electric Shock for Dummies pitch last year and had a great >> group attending. I?m willing to do it again this year, building on >> last years session with some improvements. > > With demonstrations? (;-) > -- > OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I > turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M > Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: > David Heald: > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: > David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] FW: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
In message <000c01d0de82$1350c6c0$39f25440$@cs.com>, dated Mon, 24 Aug 2015, Pete Perkins writes: But I do get to describe my own reaction to electric shock (bus not as satisfying for the audience). You could show a video, with sound effects. (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] FW: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
John, et al, Well, no demonstration... Looked into it several years ago and the IEEE didn't want to cover the liability for such. Too, bad, I've always felt that EE product folks should always know what allowable electric shock feels like. But I do get to describe my own reaction to electric shock (bus not as satisfying for the audience). :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 11:14 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track In message <001801d0de2a$ab67e590$0237b0b0$@cs.com>, dated Sun, 23 Aug 2015, Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> writes: > I did the Electric Shock for Dummies pitch last year and had a great >group attending. I?m willing to do it again this year, building on >last years session with some improvements. With demonstrations? (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
And audience participation I hope. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 2:14 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track In message <001801d0de2a$ab67e590$0237b0b0$@cs.com>, dated Sun, 23 Aug 2015, Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> writes: > I did the Electric Shock for Dummies pitch last year and had a great >group attending. I?m willing to do it again this year, building on >last years session with some improvements. With demonstrations? (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
In message <001801d0de2a$ab67e590$0237b0b0$@cs.com>, dated Sun, 23 Aug 2015, Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> writes: I did the Electric Shock for Dummies pitch last year and had a great group attending. I?m willing to do it again this year, building on last years session with some improvements. With demonstrations? (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
John, Thanx for speaking up; the symposium is always awsome. I did the Electric Shock for Dummies pitch last year and had a great group attending. I'm willing to do it again this year, building on last years session with some improvements. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 4:40 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track Hi guys, I'm heading up the Compliance 101 Track for the 2016 Symposium in Anaheim, CA. The Track was very well received last year and I'm hoping to do it again this year with 6 or 7 presentations on high level compliance issues, tips and teachings. The audience for the Track are those new to compliance and designers who don't have the time to get their hands around compliance. Believe it or not, some people that attended the Track last year still thought UL was a government agency. I believe we have a huge opportunity to grow the Symposium, and membership in the PSES by teaching newbies and designers how to do what we do. For the consultants out there I know this sounds like you're giving away free consulting, and you are, but as one of you I can say it is worth it - a knowledgeable client is our best client!! The Symposium is not until May 16-18, 2016 but we need to get organized as the TPC is already meeting monthly. Please consider doing a presentation and reach out to me if your interested. If you'd like to see the Compliance 101 presentations to get a flavor for what they looked like let me know. Not 100% sure if I can pass them on if you didn't attend the symposium, but can certainly pass along something similar to the one I did. Best Regards, John John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher David Heald - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track
Hi guys, I'm heading up the Compliance 101 Track for the 2016 Symposium in Anaheim, CA. The Track was very well received last year and I'm hoping to do it again this year with 6 or 7 presentations on high level compliance issues, tips and teachings. The audience for the Track are those new to compliance and designers who don't have the time to get their hands around compliance. Believe it or not, some people that attended the Track last year still thought UL was a government agency. I believe we have a huge opportunity to grow the Symposium, and membership in the PSES by teaching newbies and designers how to do what we do. For the consultants out there I know this sounds like you're giving away free consulting, and you are, but as one of you I can say it is worth it - a knowledgeable client is our best client!! The Symposium is not until May 16-18, 2016 but we need to get organized as the TPC is already meeting monthly. Please consider doing a presentation and reach out to me if your interested. If you'd like to see the Compliance 101 presentations to get a flavor for what they looked like let me know. Not 100% sure if I can pass them on if you didn't attend the symposium, but can certainly pass along something similar to the one I did. Best Regards, John John Allen President Product Safety Consulting, Inc. http://www.productsafetyinc.com 630-238-0188 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
