Re: [PSES] Risk Assessment of Air Filter

2016-09-19 Thread Peter Tarver 
Brian -

UL will generally accept a Class 1 air filter. These are evaluated against UL 
900.

Otherwise, it depends on the standard for the end product what requirement 
apply. I recall 60950-1 accepting HF-1.


Peter Tarver

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 09:43

But what type of Fault Testing or Risk assessment needs to be done regarding 
the filter?  With the filter removed, the instrument passes the construction 
requirements for a Fire Enclosure. But with the filter installed and because of 
its close proximity to the fan/blower;

1.does this filter have to meet Flammability requirements? Does the 
filters have to be certified (expensive)? UL 94 HF-1?, UL 94 HF-2?, UL 900?  
How are these ratings/certifications viewed outside of North America?  Will 
they have to meet local requirements??

2.   If the fan/blower is certified and limited energy circuit does the 
filter have to have any kind of rating or certification? In other words, with a 
certified fan/blower, do I have to consider the fault condition of the fan 
failing in a way where it could catch the filter on fire?

3.   How is a fault and/or risk assessment performed on an air filter?

4.   Are we responsible to consider the hazards from a burning filter when 
it is dirty? How would we know what type of contaminates might collect in a 
filter?

5.   If the filter we provide is UL 94 HF-1 and UL 900 rated/certified, 
what would stop our customer from replacing it with whatever filter they 
wanted? Are we responsible to include a warning label and statements in the 
manual regarding this?  Example, "Use only Air Filter part number XYZ".

6.   Any other suggestions or issues that we are not considering?

Thanks in advance. Have a nice day.

The Other Brian

LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas >
Mike Cantwell >

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher >
David Heald >

The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. 
It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is 
addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the 
intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in 
any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, 
please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this 
message!

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Risk Assessment of Air Filter

2016-09-19 Thread Joe Randolph 
Hi Brian:

 

I have only a passing familiarity with the type of requirements that you are
asking about, but I can offer a few tidbits.

 

For telecom carrier equipment, requirement GR-63-CORE (2012) requires a
filter on all fan-cooled equipment, and contains requirements for the
filtering ability of the filter, ease-of-replacement, and fire resistance.
For the tests on filtering ability, GR-63-CORE references "ASHRAE 52.1
(1992)" and "ANSI/ASHRAE 52.2 (2007)."

 

For the fire resistance tests, GR-63-CORE calls out UL 900 (2004).  

 

I do not have copies of the ASHRAE standards or UL 900, so I can't readily
check to see what they say.

 

I should mention that at engineering conferences for telecom equipment, the
vendor display area usually has one or two vendors that specialize in
GR-63-CORE compliant filter arrangements.  I can't recall the vendor names I
have seen, but a little google searching will likely turn them up.  

 

 

Joe Randolph

Telecom Design Consultant

Randolph Telecom, Inc.

781-721-2848 (USA)

 <mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com> j...@randolph-telecom.com

 <http://www.randolph-telecom.com> http://www.randolph-telecom.com

 

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 12:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Risk Assessment of Air Filter

 

I seek advice and opinions from fellow safety minded people.

 

Our typical product has a metal chassis which is constructed as a Fire
Enclosure (laboratory equipment 61010-1). On the back is a cutout for a
cooling fan/blower mounted in the cutout. The fan is 24Vdc, certified by
several safety agencies, and has a finger guard.  This is typical
configuration on most electronics.

 

Now, our customers want us to install an externally changeable Air Filter on
the outside surface of our instrument where the fan is mounted to filter
dust particles from the incoming air. We already perform Blocked Vent and
Stalled Fan tests to insure no hazards are caused from the rise in internal
temperatures.  

 

But what type of Fault Testing or Risk assessment needs to be done regarding
the filter?  With the filter removed, the instrument passes the construction
requirements for a Fire Enclosure. But with the filter installed and because
of its close proximity to the fan/blower;

1.does this filter have to meet Flammability requirements? Does the
filters have to be certified (expensive)? UL 94 HF-1?, UL 94 HF-2?, UL 900?
How are these ratings/certifications viewed outside of North America?  Will
they have to meet local requirements??

2.   If the fan/blower is certified and limited energy circuit does the
filter have to have any kind of rating or certification? In other words,
with a certified fan/blower, do I have to consider the fault condition of
the fan failing in a way where it could catch the filter on fire?  

3.   How is a fault and/or risk assessment performed on an air filter? 

4.   Are we responsible to consider the hazards from a burning filter
when it is dirty? How would we know what type of contaminates might collect
in a filter?  

5.   If the filter we provide is UL 94 HF-1 and UL 900 rated/certified,
what would stop our customer from replacing it with whatever filter they
wanted? Are we responsible to include a warning label and statements in the
manual regarding this?  Example, "Use only Air Filter part number XYZ". 

6.   Any other suggestions or issues that we are not considering?  

 

Thanks in advance. Have a nice day.


The Other Brian

  _  


LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this
by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. 


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
<emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> >

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> >
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> >
David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > 


-
-

Re: [PSES] Risk Assessment of Air Filter

2016-09-19 Thread John Allen 
Brian


>From "memory" of 60950 and the like, in view of the testing you have already
done, and because the filter is outside the fire enclosure, then, for Q1, an
HBF ("Horizontal Burning, Foam" IIRC) rating should be "adequate" to meet
the standard in the same way that a piece of external solid "trim" material
generally need only be HB, i.e. it will burn but only relatively slowly and
won't just flare up.

 

However, given your reservations, I would have thought that using a more
flame-retardant filter material would be a "very good idea"!

 

As for the customer replacing your filter by "something else" &/or it
getting clogged with flammable dust, I would cover those issues in the
manuals and training in the same way as all the other do's and don'ts that
are (hopefully!) already there - then, if he changes it to "something else"
or else does not change it when it is dirty, it is essentially his
responsibility. OTOH, a suitable warning notice beside the filter housing
might also be a good idea.

 

After all, as a piece of professional-use 61010-1 equipment, it is to be
expected that the people using/maintaining it will be relatively
"intelligent" and will suitably trained in how to perform those tasks
correctly, and that includes use of the correct replacement parts during
user maintenance.

 

John E Allen

W.London, UK

 

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: 19 September 2016 17:43
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Risk Assessment of Air Filter

 

I seek advice and opinions from fellow safety minded people.

 

Our typical product has a metal chassis which is constructed as a Fire
Enclosure (laboratory equipment 61010-1). On the back is a cutout for a
cooling fan/blower mounted in the cutout. The fan is 24Vdc, certified by
several safety agencies, and has a finger guard.  This is typical
configuration on most electronics.

 

Now, our customers want us to install an externally changeable Air Filter on
the outside surface of our instrument where the fan is mounted to filter
dust particles from the incoming air. We already perform Blocked Vent and
Stalled Fan tests to insure no hazards are caused from the rise in internal
temperatures.  

 

But what type of Fault Testing or Risk assessment needs to be done regarding
the filter?  With the filter removed, the instrument passes the construction
requirements for a Fire Enclosure. But with the filter installed and because
of its close proximity to the fan/blower;

1.does this filter have to meet Flammability requirements? Does the
filters have to be certified (expensive)? UL 94 HF-1?, UL 94 HF-2?, UL 900?
How are these ratings/certifications viewed outside of North America?  Will
they have to meet local requirements??

2.   If the fan/blower is certified and limited energy circuit does the
filter have to have any kind of rating or certification? In other words,
with a certified fan/blower, do I have to consider the fault condition of
the fan failing in a way where it could catch the filter on fire?  

3.   How is a fault and/or risk assessment performed on an air filter? 

4.   Are we responsible to consider the hazards from a burning filter
when it is dirty? How would we know what type of contaminates might collect
in a filter?  

5.   If the filter we provide is UL 94 HF-1 and UL 900 rated/certified,
what would stop our customer from replacing it with whatever filter they
wanted? Are we responsible to include a warning label and statements in the
manual regarding this?  Example, "Use only Air Filter part number XYZ". 

6.   Any other suggestions or issues that we are not considering?  

 

Thanks in advance. Have a nice day.


The Other Brian

  _  


LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this
by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. 


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org>
Dav

Re: [PSES] Risk Assessment of Air Filter

2016-09-19 Thread John Woodgate 
Most PCs don't blow air in, they blow it out, and the air inlet is well away
from the power supply block. This tends to blow dust *out* of the innards
and seems to work well, without the use of a filter. Of course, I don't know
whether you can do that with your product.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
 <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and
Associates Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 5:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Risk Assessment of Air Filter
 
I seek advice and opinions from fellow safety minded people.
 
Our typical product has a metal chassis which is constructed as a Fire
Enclosure (laboratory equipment 61010-1). On the back is a cutout for a
cooling fan/blower mounted in the cutout. The fan is 24Vdc, certified by
several safety agencies, and has a finger guard.  This is typical
configuration on most electronics.
 
Now, our customers want us to install an externally changeable Air Filter on
the outside surface of our instrument where the fan is mounted to filter
dust particles from the incoming air. We already perform Blocked Vent and
Stalled Fan tests to insure no hazards are caused from the rise in internal
temperatures.  
 
But what type of Fault Testing or Risk assessment needs to be done regarding
the filter?  With the filter removed, the instrument passes the construction
requirements for a Fire Enclosure. But with the filter installed and because
of its close proximity to the fan/blower;
1.   does this filter have to meet Flammability requirements? Does the
filters have to be certified (expensive)? UL 94 HF-1?, UL 94 HF-2?, UL 900?
How are these ratings/certifications viewed outside of North America?  Will
they have to meet local requirements??
2.  If the fan/blower is certified and limited energy circuit does the
filter have to have any kind of rating or certification? In other words,
with a certified fan/blower, do I have to consider the fault condition of
the fan failing in a way where it could catch the filter on fire?  
3.  How is a fault and/or risk assessment performed on an air filter? 
4.  Are we responsible to consider the hazards from a burning filter
when it is dirty? How would we know what type of contaminates might collect
in a filter?  
5.  If the filter we provide is UL 94 HF-1 and UL 900 rated/certified,
what would stop our customer from replacing it with whatever filter they
wanted? Are we responsible to include a warning label and statements in the
manual regarding this?  Example, "Use only Air Filter part number XYZ". 
6.  Any other suggestions or issues that we are not considering?  
 
Thanks in advance. Have a nice day.

The Other Brian
  _  


LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this
by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
<emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> >
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > 
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> >
David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org&g

[PSES] Risk Assessment of Air Filter

2016-09-19 Thread Kunde, Brian 
I seek advice and opinions from fellow safety minded people.

Our typical product has a metal chassis which is constructed as a Fire 
Enclosure (laboratory equipment 61010-1). On the back is a cutout for a cooling 
fan/blower mounted in the cutout. The fan is 24Vdc, certified by several safety 
agencies, and has a finger guard.  This is typical configuration on most 
electronics.

Now, our customers want us to install an externally changeable Air Filter on 
the outside surface of our instrument where the fan is mounted to filter dust 
particles from the incoming air. We already perform Blocked Vent and Stalled 
Fan tests to insure no hazards are caused from the rise in internal 
temperatures.

But what type of Fault Testing or Risk assessment needs to be done regarding 
the filter?  With the filter removed, the instrument passes the construction 
requirements for a Fire Enclosure. But with the filter installed and because of 
its close proximity to the fan/blower;

1.does this filter have to meet Flammability requirements? Does the 
filters have to be certified (expensive)? UL 94 HF-1?, UL 94 HF-2?, UL 900?  
How are these ratings/certifications viewed outside of North America?  Will 
they have to meet local requirements??


2.   If the fan/blower is certified and limited energy circuit does the 
filter have to have any kind of rating or certification? In other words, with a 
certified fan/blower, do I have to consider the fault condition of the fan 
failing in a way where it could catch the filter on fire?


3.   How is a fault and/or risk assessment performed on an air filter?


4.   Are we responsible to consider the hazards from a burning filter when 
it is dirty? How would we know what type of contaminates might collect in a 
filter?


5.   If the filter we provide is UL 94 HF-1 and UL 900 rated/certified, 
what would stop our customer from replacing it with whatever filter they 
wanted? Are we responsible to include a warning label and statements in the 
manual regarding this?  Example, "Use only Air Filter part number XYZ".


6.   Any other suggestions or issues that we are not considering?

Thanks in advance. Have a nice day.

The Other Brian

LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: