Re: [PSES] Standard for water hoses
For flammability apply UL 746C depending on proximity to ignition sources. Also simulate leaks or hose coming off the connections. If there is a risk of shock as a result of the hose leaking you may wish to redesign by having some form of barrier or double fixation method. Best Regards Sent from my iPhone Peter S. Merguerian pe...@goglobalcompliance.com Go Global Compliance Inc. www.goglobalcompliance.com (408) 931-3303 On Oct 23, 2012, at 5:35 PM, IBM Ken ibm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Brian! I had a sneaking suspicion that article from the Dell guy would pop up. I was more hoping to find a UL standard for water hoses. UL and CSA don't seem to have any standards that cover just plain water hose. I thought something might turn up in the plumbing department, but no such luck. They have standards for LP gas hoses, hard-use firefighting hoses, high pressure air hose, flexible metal hose, etc. All of these have requirements way too strict to allow passage of a simple water hose operating at relatively low pressures. I was hoping they would have a basic hose standard just simply covering working pressure, construction, and maybe a flammability test. I am currently trying to talk UL into agreeing to write a construction report and doing a flame test. Part of my problem is that the hose is a non-homogeneous product, so we're trying to apply VW-1 from UL 1581, which all agencies are heistant to apply to a non-cabling product. Thanks, -Ken On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com wrote: PSEN Vol3 No4, Dec 2007 Check PAGs and CTL notices. And your corporate name-sake should have some internal docs on this construction. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of IBM Ken Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Standard for water hoses Hello! Are there any standards (I'm interested in Product Safety Standards from UL, CSA, the IEC, or EN standards) covering water-carrying hoses? I am looking for something that covers flammability, construction, pressure rating, etc. The end product is a piece of ITE certified to 60950-1, if that matters. Thanks! -Ken - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Standard for water hoses
I spent a lot more time with water cooling in the data center at my former employer, APC/Schneider Electric. Most cooling water in data centers is either in metallic pipes or cross-linked polyethylene (PEX). PEX is also the material used for applications such as radiant under-floor heating and plastic water supply lines in houses. For data centers, the PEX had to meet the mechanical code which called for ASTM F876. The PEX piping will also typically carry ASTM E84 flame ratings of better than 25/50. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 6:53 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: Standard for water hoses Ken, Short time back, did a small power converter for customer's mobile server box using water cooling to processors. May take a while, but will request permission from big boss to excerpt some of the construction docs and references from the reports. Ted, Thought there was an article in an IT rag about one of your employer's server farms using water cooling. Any advice from that? Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ted Eckert Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 6:34 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Standard for water hoses Hi Ken, I recommend you look for an ASTM standard. There are plenty of standards covering hoses for specific uses. ASTM D380 covers the basic test methods for rubber hoses. There are likely additional standards, but I just don't know what they are. The building codes will give additional requirements for water lines. Don't use the plumbing code unless your water line is carrying potable water. If the water is for other uses, look at hydronics in the mechanical code. It's likely that the mechanical code is just going to call out the ASTM performance standard for any given type of hose or pipe, but it at least gives justification for choosing a particular standard to use. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: IBM Ken [mailto:ibm...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 5:35 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: Standard for water hoses Hi Brian! I had a sneaking suspicion that article from the Dell guy would pop up. I was more hoping to find a UL standard for water hoses. UL and CSA don't seem to have any standards that cover just plain water hose. I thought something might turn up in the plumbing department, but no such luck. They have standards for LP gas hoses, hard-use firefighting hoses, high pressure air hose, flexible metal hose, etc. All of these have requirements way too strict to allow passage of a simple water hose operating at relatively low pressures. I was hoping they would have a basic hose standard just simply covering working pressure, construction, and maybe a flammability test. I am currently trying to talk UL into agreeing to write a construction report and doing a flame test. Part of my problem is that the hose is a non-homogeneous product, so we're trying to apply VW-1 from UL 1581, which all agencies are heistant to apply to a non-cabling product. Thanks, -Ken On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com wrote: PSEN Vol3 No4, Dec 2007 Check PAGs and CTL notices. And your corporate name-sake should have some internal docs on this construction. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of IBM Ken Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Standard for water hoses Hello! Are there any standards (I'm interested in Product Safety Standards from UL, CSA, the IEC, or EN standards) covering water-carrying hoses? I am looking for something that covers flammability, construction, pressure rating, etc. The end product is a piece of ITE certified to 60950-1, if that matters. Thanks! -Ken - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas
Re: [PSES] Standard for water hoses
Ken, Try EN 61770:2009 Electric appliances connected to the water mains. Avoidance of backsiphonage and failure of hose-sets Regards Nick. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Standard for water hoses
Hi Brian! I had a sneaking suspicion that article from the Dell guy would pop up. I was more hoping to find a UL standard for water hoses. UL and CSA don't seem to have any standards that cover just plain water hose. I thought something might turn up in the plumbing department, but no such luck. They have standards for LP gas hoses, hard-use firefighting hoses, high pressure air hose, flexible metal hose, etc. All of these have requirements way too strict to allow passage of a simple water hose operating at relatively low pressures. I was hoping they would have a basic hose standard just simply covering working pressure, construction, and maybe a flammability test. I am currently trying to talk UL into agreeing to write a construction report and doing a flame test. Part of my problem is that the hose is a non-homogeneous product, so we're trying to apply VW-1 from UL 1581, which all agencies are heistant to apply to a non-cabling product. Thanks, -Ken On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.comwrote: PSEN Vol3 No4, Dec 2007 Check PAGs and CTL notices. And your corporate name-sake should have some internal docs on this construction. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of IBM Ken Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Standard for water hoses Hello! Are there any standards (I'm interested in Product Safety Standards from UL, CSA, the IEC, or EN standards) covering water-carrying hoses? I am looking for something that covers flammability, construction, pressure rating, etc. The end product is a piece of ITE certified to 60950-1, if that matters. Thanks! -Ken - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Standard for water hoses
Hi Ken, I recommend you look for an ASTM standard. There are plenty of standards covering hoses for specific uses. ASTM D380http://www.astm.org/Standards/D380.htm covers the basic test methods for rubber hoses. There are likely additional standards, but I just don't know what they are. The building codes will give additional requirements for water lines. Don't use the plumbing code unless your water line is carrying potable water. If the water is for other uses, look at hydronics in the mechanical code. It's likely that the mechanical code is just going to call out the ASTM performance standard for any given type of hose or pipe, but it at least gives justification for choosing a particular standard to use. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.commailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: IBM Ken [mailto:ibm...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 5:35 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: Standard for water hoses Hi Brian! I had a sneaking suspicion that article from the Dell guy would pop up. I was more hoping to find a UL standard for water hoses. UL and CSA don't seem to have any standards that cover just plain water hose. I thought something might turn up in the plumbing department, but no such luck. They have standards for LP gas hoses, hard-use firefighting hoses, high pressure air hose, flexible metal hose, etc. All of these have requirements way too strict to allow passage of a simple water hose operating at relatively low pressures. I was hoping they would have a basic hose standard just simply covering working pressure, construction, and maybe a flammability test. I am currently trying to talk UL into agreeing to write a construction report and doing a flame test. Part of my problem is that the hose is a non-homogeneous product, so we're trying to apply VW-1 from UL 1581, which all agencies are heistant to apply to a non-cabling product. Thanks, -Ken On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.commailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com wrote: PSEN Vol3 No4, Dec 2007 Check PAGs and CTL notices. And your corporate name-sake should have some internal docs on this construction. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of IBM Ken Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Standard for water hoses Hello! Are there any standards (I'm interested in Product Safety Standards from UL, CSA, the IEC, or EN standards) covering water-carrying hoses? I am looking for something that covers flammability, construction, pressure rating, etc. The end product is a piece of ITE certified to 60950-1, if that matters. Thanks! -Ken - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com -
Re: [PSES] Standard for water hoses
Ken, Short time back, did a small power converter for customer's mobile server box using water cooling to processors. May take a while, but will request permission from big boss to excerpt some of the construction docs and references from the reports. Ted, Thought there was an article in an IT rag about one of your employer's server farms using water cooling. Any advice from that? Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ted Eckert Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 6:34 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Standard for water hoses Hi Ken, I recommend you look for an ASTM standard. There are plenty of standards covering hoses for specific uses. ASTM D380 covers the basic test methods for rubber hoses. There are likely additional standards, but I just don't know what they are. The building codes will give additional requirements for water lines. Don't use the plumbing code unless your water line is carrying potable water. If the water is for other uses, look at hydronics in the mechanical code. It's likely that the mechanical code is just going to call out the ASTM performance standard for any given type of hose or pipe, but it at least gives justification for choosing a particular standard to use. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: IBM Ken [mailto:ibm...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 5:35 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: Standard for water hoses Hi Brian! I had a sneaking suspicion that article from the Dell guy would pop up. I was more hoping to find a UL standard for water hoses. UL and CSA don't seem to have any standards that cover just plain water hose. I thought something might turn up in the plumbing department, but no such luck. They have standards for LP gas hoses, hard-use firefighting hoses, high pressure air hose, flexible metal hose, etc. All of these have requirements way too strict to allow passage of a simple water hose operating at relatively low pressures. I was hoping they would have a basic hose standard just simply covering working pressure, construction, and maybe a flammability test. I am currently trying to talk UL into agreeing to write a construction report and doing a flame test. Part of my problem is that the hose is a non-homogeneous product, so we're trying to apply VW-1 from UL 1581, which all agencies are heistant to apply to a non-cabling product. Thanks, -Ken On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com wrote: PSEN Vol3 No4, Dec 2007 Check PAGs and CTL notices. And your corporate name-sake should have some internal docs on this construction. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of IBM Ken Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Standard for water hoses Hello! Are there any standards (I'm interested in Product Safety Standards from UL, CSA, the IEC, or EN standards) covering water-carrying hoses? I am looking for something that covers flammability, construction, pressure rating, etc. The end product is a piece of ITE certified to 60950-1, if that matters. Thanks! -Ken - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell
[PSES] Standard for water hoses
Hello! Are there any standards (I'm interested in Product Safety Standards from UL, CSA, the IEC, or EN standards) covering water-carrying hoses? I am looking for something that covers flammability, construction, pressure rating, etc. The end product is a piece of ITE certified to 60950-1, if that matters. Thanks! -Ken - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Standard for water hoses
PSEN Vol3 No4, Dec 2007 Check PAGs and CTL notices. And your corporate name-sake should have some internal docs on this construction. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of IBM Ken Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Standard for water hoses Hello! Are there any standards (I'm interested in Product Safety Standards from UL, CSA, the IEC, or EN standards) covering water-carrying hoses? I am looking for something that covers flammability, construction, pressure rating, etc. The end product is a piece of ITE certified to 60950-1, if that matters. Thanks! -Ken - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
