Re: Power Factor correction

2004-10-18 Thread owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org
In article f7e9180f6f7f5840858d3db815e4f7ad05fb9...@cms21.t-yuden.com,
Brian O'Connell boconn...@t-yuden.com writes

Typically, I have always measured/calculated distortion PF using the
current waveform. What market segments tend to use/prefer the voltage
w/f ? Do you think that end-users of component power supplies prefer one
parametric over the other ?

I tried to keep the explanation brief, but obviously it was too brief.
In general, both the voltage and the current are distorted, and in-phase
components of the voltage and current harmonics add to the true power.
Equally, quadrature components add to the apparent power. If you just
assume that the voltage is sinusoidal when it isn't, you do not get the
right answers.


 If it only meets the Class A limits, it doesn't have much distortion
 power factor correction, if any. The displacement power factor depends
 on how heavily the power supply is loaded.

I would appreciate if you could offer more commentary/insight on this
statement. Perhaps this is not based on power supplies that use active
PFC, where output loading has minimal influence on measured PF within
the unit's ratings.

It isn't based on power supplies with active PFC. But such supplies
normally meet the Class D limits if under 600 W active input power, so I
inferred from the citing of Class A limits that your power supply didn't
have active PFC. If it does, the power factor is likely to be very high,
and not a matter of concern for your customer. But it would be unwise to
guess a figure.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk


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RE: Power Factor correction

2004-10-18 Thread owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org


 -Original Message- 
 From: John Woodgate [ mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] 
 Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 2:03 PM 
 To: emc-p...@ieee.org 
 Subject: Re: Power Factor correction 

 Then there is the 'distortion power factor', which is a measure of the 
 ratio of total r.m.s. voltage to its fundamental component and of the 
 total r.m.s current to its fundamental component. 

Typically, I have always measured/calculated distortion PF using the current
waveform. What market segments tend to use/prefer the voltage w/f ? Do you
think that end-users of component power supplies prefer one parametric over
the other ?

  
 If it only meets the Class A limits, it doesn't have much distortion 
 power factor correction, if any. The displacement power factor depends 
 on how heavily the power supply is loaded. 

I would appreciate if you could offer more commentary/insight on this
statement. Perhaps this is not based on power supplies that use active PFC,
where output loading has minimal influence on measured PF within the unit's
ratings.


 You aren't going to solve this without getting your hands on an actual 
 power supply. Believe me! 

All should heed this statment from a man older and wiser then me... 
Nothing beats empirical verification, under end-use conditions. 

luck, 
Brian 

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Re: Power Factor correction

2004-10-16 Thread owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org
In article 9F347458EDACB64B8FF57DB67E6E0FAA0121E14D@cerebrum.spraycool.
com, Gary McInturff gmcintu...@spraycool.com writes

  We have a new project that is, for all practical purposes a custom
design for a client.
We purchase a supply that indicates compliance with EN61000-3-2
harmonics. Our customer wants a more quantitative number. Is it 90%
PFC, 95% etc.

You don't have '90% PFC' power factor correction), you have '90% PF'
(power factor). Next, power factor, defined as true power/apparent
power, is composite if the load is non-linear. There is a 'displacement
power factor', which, if the voltage wave form OR the current waveform
is substantially undistorted is simply the cosine of the phase angle
between the sinusoidal quantity and the fundamental component of the
non-sinusoidal quantity. If both voltage and current are non-sinusoidal,
then both the true power and the apparent power contain terms associated
with harmonic frequencies.

Then there is the 'distortion power factor', which is a measure of the
ratio of total r.m.s. voltage to its fundamental component and of the
total r.m.s current to its fundamental component.

I can't tell that from the spec sheet and quite frankly at this
point I can't lay my hands on a power supply yet and obviously we
haven't gone to test yet with this in our equipment so I don't
believe I have any way of determining this (not sur
   e that I could
tell from the conformance test anyway - can I?)

Yes, if you get the raw data (amplitude of every component of supply
voltage and input current, with their phase angles) and process it.

When I call the power supply manufacturer, I can't directly
address the design engineer and all they can tell me is that it
meets the requirements for Class A waveform.
Am I overlooking something here in the datasheet? Is there
anyway to infer what what the PFC % is?

If it only meets the Class A limits, it doesn't have much distortion
power factor correction, if any. The displacement power factor depends
on how heavily the power supply is loaded.

You aren't going to solve this without getting your hands on an actual
power supply. Believe me!
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk


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RE: Power Factor correction

2004-10-12 Thread owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org
To calc PF you would need to know the true power and apparent power at a
particular test configuration. 

PF for an unit with active (more expensive) PFC should vary very little over
the rated input range. PF for units with passive (less expensive) PFC will
probably vary several percent over the rated input and output ranges. PF for
unit with no PFC (cheap) vary significantly with changes in line quality, and
significantly over the rated input and output ranges. No free lunch...

It is important to measure PF with an instrument intended for the measurement.
There are many ways to measure PF using just scopes and/or meters, but unless
you have instruments with very high crest factors, that can make
phase-relative measurements, and can accurately integrate over many cycles,
your resultant number could be suspect.

Final caveat, I have tested component power supplies from various sources. And
I have noted a few atypical cases where a unit reliably maintained a
consistent and high PF, but was operating at the limits or failing (depending
on the Class) according to CISPRs and the 61000-3-2 conducted immunity test.

luck, 
Brian 


-Original Message- 
From: robert Macy [ mailto:m...@california.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 4:16 PM 
To: Gary McInturff; emc-p...@ieee.org 
Subject: Re: Power Factor correction 

Gary, 

Is it possible to calculate the pfc from the spec? 

   - Robert - 

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:54:01 -0700 
 Gary McInturff gmcintu...@spraycool.com wrote: 
 Ladies and Gentlemen 
 I think I may be stuck between a rock and a hard 
 place. 
 We have a new project that is, for all practical 
 purposes a custom 
 design for a client. 
 We purchase a supply that indicates compliance with 
 EN61000-3-2 
 harmonics. Our customer wants a more quantitative number. 
 Is it 90% PFC, 95% 
 etc. 
 I can't tell that from the spec sheet and quite 
 frankly at this point I 
 can't lay my hands on a power supply yet and obviously we 
 haven't gone to 
 test yet with this in our equipment so I don't believe I 
 have any way of 
 determining this (not sure that I could tell from the 
 conformance test 
 anyway - can I?) 
 When I call the power supply manufacturer, I can't 
 directly address the 
 design engineer and all they can tell me is that it meets 
 the requirements 
 for Class A waveform. 
 Am I overlooking something here in the datasheet? Is 
 there anyway to 
 infer what what the PFC % is? 
 Gary 

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Re: Power Factor Correction

2003-03-04 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Dave Spencer dspen...@dsl-only.net wrote (in
185530-22003324161424...@dsl-only.net) about 'Power Factor Correction'
on Tue, 4 Mar 2003:
I am looking for some input on your experience with PFC as it relates
to testing (EN61000-3-2 and EN55022).  Has anyone using an AC-AC
external transformer in the 15-20 Watt range experienced difficulty
passing, e.g. no PFC?

Well, you don't say what the transformer is feeding! Assuming it's a
bridge rectifier with a fat filter capacitor, the resistances of the
transformer windings are usually sufficient to make the rectifier
conduction angle exceed 65 degrees, which should be sufficient to meet
the Class D limits. BUT those limits doesn't apply below 75 W anyway!

One might guess that you haven't read the standard, and have thus been
worrying over a non-problem. OTOH, one might, of course, be wrong in an
entirely unexpected direction.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Power Factor Correction

2003-03-04 Thread Dave Spencer

Hi All,
I am looking for some input on your experience with PFC as it relates
to testing (EN61000-3-2 and EN55022).  Has anyone using an AC-AC
external transformer in the 15-20 Watt range experienced difficulty
passing, e.g. no PFC?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Regards,
Dave Spencer
Two Peppers



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Re: Power Factor Correction - Power supply unit

2002-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that am...@westin-emission.no wrote (in LFENJLPMMJB
mhpeibnilieihccaa.am...@westin-emission.no) about 'Power Factor
Correction - Power supply unit', on Thu, 31 Jan 2002:

Hi all,

An AC/DC power supply (230AC in / 28VDC 3A out) shall power an ITE (fire
alarm panel). I assume that EN61000-3-2 will apply for the total system
(Power supply + ITE).

Yes.

I was told that the power supply must have Power Factor Correction in order
to pass the harmonic EN61000-3-2 test.

Not necessarily. The ***Class A*** limits apply, not the Class D. This
is possibly the most significant change introduced by the Millennium
Amendment (A14). Class D applies now to PCs, VDUs and TV sets, not to
all ITE.

I think it is unlikely that a 100 W power supply can violate the Class A
limits. If it isn't a switch-mode type (i.e. it has a mains transformer)
it may even meet the Class D limits, or could be modified at low cost to
do so.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero.
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

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Power Factor Correction - Power supply unit

2002-01-31 Thread amund

Hi all,

An AC/DC power supply (230AC in / 28VDC 3A out) shall power an ITE (fire
alarm panel). I assume that EN61000-3-2 will apply for the total system
(Power supply + ITE).
I was told that the power supply must have Power Factor Correction in order
to pass the harmonic EN61000-3-2 test.

Is that true ?

Best regards
Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway


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Passive power factor correction

2000-12-08 Thread Lfresearch

Hi folks,

not long ago, there was some descussion on modules for passive power factor 
correction. We have an application of around 150 watts that is a borderline 
fail, and the addition of a small module would get us by until a new PS design 
is developed from scratch.

Can anyone suggest vendors for such a device?

Thanks,

Derek Walton
Invensys

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Re: Active Power Factor Correction

1998-11-30 Thread Lfresearch
In a message dated 98-11-30 12:58:20 EST, plaw...@west.net writes:

  Hello Colleagues,
  I have recently learned of a technology whereby harmonic disturbances may
be
  reduced via APFC (Active Power Factor Correction). This is apparently a
  device that injects cancellation harmonics back onto the line under closed
  loop control. 
  
  Is anyone able to point me to any resources where I can learn more? 

Hi,

active power factor correction has several guises. The two I'm familier with
are where a pre-switcher is used, and where active circuits null harmonics at
the point where power enters to box.

For Technique 1, I suggest you go to the Linear Tech site, they have devices
specifically for this, I believe Cherry do too. I'm playing with a LT 1509CN
at the moment, it's quite good.

For Technique 2, the work I did was to reduce the weight in aircraft solid
state power convertors back in 1986. It was never made commercially available,
though I believe a company from Israel called Actil has a filter based on this
concept. They are at www.actil.com.

Best regards.

Derek Walton.
Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility.
NARTE Engineer 438.

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RE: Active Power Factor Correction

1998-11-19 Thread Daniel Sicard
This actually not an add on device but a caracteristic design in the front
end of a power supply.
If you can get a copy of some hold (2-4 years) Unitrode seminar handbook or
Unitrode application 
notes for their ICs you will get some basic information about these.  Also
Microlinear web site is 
providing some info on the subject.

 -Original Message-
 From: POWELL, DOUG [SMTP:doug.pow...@aei.com]
 Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 1:55 PM
 To:   EMC-PSTC (E-mail)
 Subject:  Active Power Factor Correction
 
 Hello Colleagues,
 
 I have recently learned of a technology whereby harmonic disturbances may
 be
 reduced via APFC (Active Power Factor Correction).  This is apparently a
 device that injects cancellation harmonics back onto the line under closed
 loop control.  
 
 Is anyone able to point me to any resources where I can learn more?
 
 
 
 ===
 Doug Powell, Compliance Engineer
 Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
 1625 Sharp Point Drive m/s 2018
 Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 USA 
 
 Phone:970-407-6410
 eFax: 970-407-5410
 email:doug.pow...@aei.com
   (new address)
 === 
 
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Active Power Factor Correction

1998-11-19 Thread Chris Dupres
Hi Doug.

I have recently learned of a technology whereby harmonic disturbances may
be
reduced via APFC (Active Power Factor Correction).  This is apparently a
device that injects cancellation harmonics back onto the line under closed
loop control.  

Is anyone able to point me to any resources where I can learn more?

The ERA in Leatherhead, UK, was doing a lot of work with this stuf, and had
a product.
Tel:+44 (0) 1372 367030
Fax: +44 (0) 1372 374074
Email:  i...@era.co.uk

Sorry. I don't recall the chap running the group.

Chris Dupres
Surrey, UK.

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Re: Active Power Factor Correction

1998-11-19 Thread Rich Nute



Hi Doug:


Active (as opposed to passive) power factor correction
for electronic products is a high-frequency switching 
rectifier (ahead of the switching-mode power supply)
which stores energy in an inductor rather than in a 
capacitor.

The current waveform is in phase with the voltage 
waveform and is nearly sinusoidal (better than 95%).  
Therefore, the power factor is better than 0.9, and
the harmonic currents are nearly zero.

It does not inject cancellation harmonics back into the
power line.

I'm not sure if this is an answer to your inquiry.  I've
not heard of an APFC that is generic and corrects for 
any load.  However, I have heard of a zig-zag transformer
(for installations) that dissipates the harmonic current 
and effectively corrects harmonic-caused poor power 
factor.


Best regards,
Rich


-
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 Hewlett-Packard Company   Product Regulations Group 
 AiO Division  Tel   :   +1 619 655 3329 
 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX   :   +1 619 655 4979 
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RE: Active Power Factor Correction

1998-11-19 Thread Daniel Sicard
http://www.microlinear.com

http://www.microlinear.com/toc.shtml : Table of content 

 -Original Message-
 From: Sparacino,George [SMTP:sparaci...@andovercontrols.com]
 Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 1:11 PM
 To:   Daniel Sicard; EMC-PSTC (E-mail)
 Subject:  RE: Active Power Factor Correction
 
 Dan,  do you have the web address for microlinear ?
 
 Thanks,
 George
 
  -Original Message-
  From:   Daniel Sicard [SMTP:dsic...@positronfiber.com]
  Sent:   Wednesday, November 18, 1998 9:12 PM
  To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail)
  Subject:RE: Active Power Factor Correction
  
  This actually not an add on device but a caracteristic design in the
  front
  end of a power supply.
  If you can get a copy of some hold (2-4 years) Unitrode seminar
  handbook or
  Unitrode application 
  notes for their ICs you will get some basic information about these.
  Also
  Microlinear web site is 
  providing some info on the subject.
  
   -Original Message-
   From: POWELL, DOUG [SMTP:doug.pow...@aei.com]
   Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 1:55 PM
   To:   EMC-PSTC (E-mail)
   Subject:  Active Power Factor Correction
   
   Hello Colleagues,
   
   I have recently learned of a technology whereby harmonic
  disturbances may
   be
   reduced via APFC (Active Power Factor Correction).  This is
  apparently a
   device that injects cancellation harmonics back onto the line under
  closed
   loop control.  
   
   Is anyone able to point me to any resources where I can learn more?
   
   
   
   ===
   Doug Powell, Compliance Engineer
   Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
   1625 Sharp Point Drive m/s 2018
   Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 USA 
   
   Phone:970-407-6410
   eFax: 970-407-5410
   email:doug.pow...@aei.com
 (new address)
   === 
   
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Active Power Factor Correction

1998-11-18 Thread POWELL, DOUG
Hello Colleagues,

I have recently learned of a technology whereby harmonic disturbances may be
reduced via APFC (Active Power Factor Correction).  This is apparently a
device that injects cancellation harmonics back onto the line under closed
loop control.  

Is anyone able to point me to any resources where I can learn more?



===
Doug Powell, Compliance Engineer
Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
1625 Sharp Point Drive m/s 2018
Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 USA 

Phone:  970-407-6410
eFax:   970-407-5410
email:  doug.pow...@aei.com
(new address)
=== 

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Power factor correction capacitors

1997-05-24 Thread tony lamont
About 18 months ago we became aware of a failure problem associated with
power factor correction capacitors for luminaires. This problem appears
to have been created by the shift of some manufacturers from aluminium
to zinc alloy films. Can anyone advise me of the current status of the
problem - particularly in Europe. I am specifically interested in the
current understanding of the failure mechanism and the position taken
regarding recalls due to the fire hazard created.
Answers posted to my email address will be treated as confidential.

Thank you for your help

Tony Lamont  -  to...@rivernet.com.au


Re: Power Factor Correction, Medical Equipment?

1996-05-31 Thread LITTLEWORF
Although you are correct - neither does the EMC Directive. BUT the EN for
harmonics IS in the OJ and it would seem to me to be applicable. Any one else
agree??


Power Factor Correction, Medical Equipment?

1996-05-24 Thread inet
Could anyone tell me if there is a specific european requirement for power
factor correction applicable to medical equipment?  There seems to be some
conflicting information coming our way regarding this issue.  Thanks in
advance for any information anyone can provide.

Andy Garcia
Coulter Corp. 




Re: Power factor Correction

1995-12-11 Thread QA


The power factor correction standard is IEC 1000-3-2 (aka
EN 61000-3-2).

This standard applies to ALL electrical and electronic products
exceeding 75 watts maximum rated power.

The EN standard applies to all countries of the European
Community (most of Western Europe).

EN 61000-3-2 falls under the EMC Directive.  

The EMC Directive is effective 01 January 1996.  Therefore,
EN 61000-3-2 is effective 01 January 1996.



EN 61000-3-2 replaces EN 60555-2 (aka IEC 555-2).

EN 60555-2 applies to home appliances.  

For products currently under EN 60555-2, the Date of Withdrawal 
(DOW) of EN 60555-2 is 01 January 1997.  Therefore, EN 61000-3-2
is effective for home appliances 01 January 1997. 



An interpretation is that because EN 60555-2 excludes all other
equipment, the DOW is also the effective date for all equipment
excluded from EN 60555-2.  Therefore, the effective date of 
EN 61000-3-2 for ALL equipment is 01 January 1997.

From discussions in this forum, it appears that some authorities
in some countries (e.g., the U.K.) are accepting this 
interpretation, while other authorities and other countries are 
silent.



The conservative approach (i.e., without risk) for non-home 
appliance products is that such products comply with EN 61000-3-2 
as of 01 January 1996.

The risky approach is to delay incorporation of power factor
correction until 01 January 1997.  

The risky approach relies on an interpretation, which varies 
among authorities and countries.  If an authority or country 
holds the conservative position, then the risk is that of being 
caught claiming compliance with the EMC Directive, yet not 
including EN 61000-3-2 in the Manufacturer's Declaration.  The 
risk is having products denied entry into the country, and recall 
for those products already within the country.



Clearly, the folks responsible for EN 61000-3-2 have created a
very difficult position for manufacturers, one without sufficient
notice for implementation, and one with confusing effective dates.

If you have followed the development of IEC 1000-3-2, you will
have seen the rather dictatorial style of the committee leaders
and lack of consideration for other viewpoints.  Furthermore, it
is clear that they have not provided leadership in providing
adequate public announcement that the standard becomes effective
with the EMC Directive.  We've had years to prepare for the EMC
Directive, but only about one year to prepare for EN 61000-3-2.


Best regards,
Rich